Can we spreadload FRL% across APS? Arlington / Education Newbie here

[Anonymous]

OP, really busing? Can you be more creative?

Arlington is a wealthy county. We should be making our own version of "Title 1" schools in Arlington, let's call them "Title Gondola" schools (because you want to raise the kids high in the sky). NA parents will happily pay a bit more in taxes if the overall school systems improves and stops spinning its wheels with boundary rezoning to try and address equity.

Also,, improving underperforming schools will help increase property values, so its a true investment in the county.

1) FARMS rate over 40% or whatever you want to define.
2) Increase funding to those schools so that they lower the student teacher ratio to 17:1 or 16:1.
3) Staff extended day with credentialed/degreed tutors, open it to all students (not just working parents), and turn it into at least a 1 hr of small group or 1:1 tutoring/homework club.
4) All students must participate in a sport, with practices during gym time rather than the general ed PE, have each semester specialize in really developing that sports skill and rules, team sports would be especially helpful but that does get more complicated.
5) Weekly Friday night community events, with things like scrabble night, movie night with movies based on books, or cooking club where everyone learns how to make a new dish from scratch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

Schools are relying more and more on virtual meetings and interactions for parents - parent teacher conferences, virtual; back to school night - virtual; information nights - virtual. School is fully open and there is no longer reason for these events to be virtual-only. Obviously, they think this is sufficient and therefore can continue offering virtual options for parents who don't want/can't drive to the school for everything.

But how about thinking outside the box a bit for a change? If we do "A" then "B" is a problem so instead of immediately deciding not to do "A" how about thinking of potential solutions for "B"? APS has run shuttles to WHS for back to school night. PTAs could facilitate carpooling efforts, APS can arrange shuttle services, schools could arrange for conferences in alternative locations, etc. And yes, that increases transportation costs blah blah blah. Tired of the excuses that are merely shields for admitting lack of desire for any change.

I mean, that's the thing, right? There is very little desire for any change, so why bother? What is your specific school situation that you don't like?

My specific school situation is fine. I don't like the county's school situation of extreme segregation and inequality. And I don't like the hypocrisy of Arlington Democrats or the north/south divide. It's all ridiculous and unnecessary. We are not Chicago or LA. It is very feasible to have an inclusive, integrated community here in Arlington VA.

How? The most segregated schools are at the extreme ends of the county and no one wants busing

[Anonymous]

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I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

Yes! That is the answer the the OP's question. Arlington doesn't care about it, so it won't happen. Period.

Arlingtonians may care, but they care about other things more.

I disagree. (SOME) care but don't care enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only realistic way to have diverse neighborhood schools is to have diverse neighborhoods.

False.
Cambridge Massachusetts
Louisville Ky
for starters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are coming at this from a white person's perspective. Some of the people who fight the hardest against the 85% FRL schools being broken up are the people who are in those schools. Why? They don't have a problem with the way things are and they enjoy their school community.

Go ask parents at Randolph if they want to be bussed out of their neighborhood and up to Tuckahoe instead. They will slam the door in your face.

Because there is a tipping point for a FARMS rate in a school that when the FARMS rate exceeds it, the education provided to all students declines. And that has been proven over and over. Reducing the FARMS rate is actually an equality issue in education. White people just don't like to hear it.

Assuming that you don't plan on bussing kids across the county, what is the solution?

Why do you ask for solutions by precluding solutions? What a stupid qualifier - without transporting kids, what's the solution to getting kids to different schools?

The answer to your purposefully impossible question is to change housing policy and wait a hundred years. In the meantime, many other things can be done - that involve transportation - to improve school diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are coming at this from a white person's perspective. Some of the people who fight the hardest against the 85% FRL schools being broken up are the people who are in those schools. Why? They don't have a problem with the way things are and they enjoy their school community.

Go ask parents at Randolph if they want to be bussed out of their neighborhood and up to Tuckahoe instead. They will slam the door in your face.

Because there is a tipping point for a FARMS rate in a school that when the FARMS rate exceeds it, the education provided to all students declines. And that has been proven over and over. Reducing the FARMS rate is actually an equality issue in education. White people just don't like to hear it.

Assuming that you don't plan on bussing kids across the county, what is the solution?

Why do you ask for solutions by precluding solutions? What a stupid qualifier - without transporting kids, what's the solution to getting kids to different schools?

The answer to your purposefully impossible question is to change housing policy and wait a hundred years. In the meantime, many other things can be done - that involve transportation - to improve school diversity.

Run for school board on a pro-bussing platform and see how that goes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are coming at this from a white person's perspective. Some of the people who fight the hardest against the 85% FRL schools being broken up are the people who are in those schools. Why? They don't have a problem with the way things are and they enjoy their school community.

Go ask parents at Randolph if they want to be bussed out of their neighborhood and up to Tuckahoe instead. They will slam the door in your face.

Because there is a tipping point for a FARMS rate in a school that when the FARMS rate exceeds it, the education provided to all students declines. And that has been proven over and over. Reducing the FARMS rate is actually an equality issue in education. White people just don't like to hear it.

Assuming that you don't plan on bussing kids across the county, what is the solution?

Why do you ask for solutions by precluding solutions? What a stupid qualifier - without transporting kids, what's the solution to getting kids to different schools?

The answer to your purposefully impossible question is to change housing policy and wait a hundred years. In the meantime, many other things can be done - that involve transportation - to improve school diversity.

Invest a crap ton of money in the schools with most need. increase the teacher to student ratio. Beef up the schools.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who grew up in Arlington during the 90s when they actually tried bussing. They bussed students from what used to be called Green Valley to WMS and YHS. I don't remember the students at those schools caring one way or another but I definitely remember some of the parents being upset about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

So it's realistic to think that a parent is going to tote multiple children on an ART bus, potentially 20+ minutes away, for a 10 minute parent teacher conference? Would you? No offense to PP, but when we think about these situations from positions of privilege, many important factors get overlooked. There's reasons why having your school in walking distance is a better solution.

I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

OP, are you actually guerilla marketing for a sequel to this Podcast series? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

Go to the Green Valley civic association and tell them you want to bus their neighborhood children to a more diverse school. Report back how it goes.

No need. There's plenty of room at Drew to bring in other kids instead of busing Drew kids out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how many Nauck Green valley families chose Hoffman Boston or Montessori for their kids. FRL don’t all want to stay at their high poverty over 60-80% FRL school. Offer busing to any kid in Randolph or Carlin Springs willing to go to Nottingham or Tuckahoe, Hamm or Williamsburg, Yorktown. Bet you’d find some takers. Bet MONA and NNA would freak out.

Would you only offer the bussing to kids on FRL? Because otherwise you're going to get a disproportionate number of non-FRL families taking up that offer. It would just be another option school escape valve.

At least it would be the low-income students fleeing instead of the UMC fleeing and leaving even higher FRL% schools in the wake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who grew up in Arlington during the 90s when they actually tried bussing. They bussed students from what used to be called Green Valley to WMS and YHS. I don't remember the students at those schools caring one way or another but I definitely remember some of the parents being upset about it.

I think Arlington could probably go full lottery for high school without too much complaint. Elementary not so much.

[Anonymous]

So how would a county-wide all-school lottery system even be considered? Seems like everything gets stuck or doesn't progress if it's limited to the School Board. I for one would want to see this on an Arlington ballot for everyone to vote on. Sounds like Arlington has changed a lot in the last 30 years or so. I'm sure it will change even more in the next 30.... what wasn't pursued then might have broader county wide support as different solution sets appear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who grew up in Arlington during the 90s when they actually tried bussing. They bussed students from what used to be called Green Valley to WMS and YHS. I don't remember the students at those schools caring one way or another but I definitely remember some of the parents being upset about it.

I think Arlington could probably go full lottery for high school without too much complaint. Elementary not so much.

PP. That was something that was also proposed for the high schools when I was younger. They scrapped it for reasons I don't really remember; mainly bussing and logistics I believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how many Nauck Green valley families chose Hoffman Boston or Montessori for their kids. FRL don’t all want to stay at their high poverty over 60-80% FRL school. Offer busing to any kid in Randolph or Carlin Springs willing to go to Nottingham or Tuckahoe, Hamm or Williamsburg, Yorktown. Bet you’d find some takers. Bet MONA and NNA would freak out.

Would you only offer the bussing to kids on FRL? Because otherwise you're going to get a disproportionate number of non-FRL families taking up that offer. It would just be another option school escape valve.

At least it would be the low-income students fleeing instead of the UMC fleeing and leaving even higher FRL% schools in the wake.

But if Arlington has created schools with unequal educational experiences or opportunities through their housing policy, why should anyone have to stay? Regardless of HHI? If the County offers people another option, anyone at those schools should be able to participate. If it’s really true that most of those people value walkability, it sounds like plenty of people will stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who grew up in Arlington during the 90s when they actually tried bussing. They bussed students from what used to be called Green Valley to WMS and YHS. I don't remember the students at those schools caring one way or another but I definitely remember some of the parents being upset about it.

I think Arlington could probably go full lottery for high school without too much complaint. Elementary not so much.

Agree. Maybe even MS.

For ES, clone ATS (or similar) in SA and that will bring the high SES families down. They can handle the transportation.