Can we spreadload FRL% across APS? Arlington / Education Newbie here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because redlining. Cue the MONA pearl clutching.

Put AH in North Arlington. Moratorium on AH in SA.

All of the APAH folks live in NA. Most of CB too. Good luck with your advocacy.

Better luck opening a private school in Arlington. Put it along 50. You will succeed.

Yep and they live in the specific parts of North Arlington that are outside things like Plan Lee Highway and AH. It’s laughable how their beloved polices don’t affect them at all but the rest of us are expected to jump on board or we are bad people.

Actually, most live in south Arlington (Dorsey, Garvey, Cristol, Karatonis). Southern SB members: Goldstein, O'grady (for a few more months), Priddy. SB will tilt "north" when Kadera takes O'Grady's place. But consider this as well: Priddy put one of his kids in private. O'Grady chose options - Montessori, and I believe daughter went to WL rather than Wakefield while son is currently at Wakefield. Also, Dorsey's daughter went to ATS (is she at HB now??); Goldstein's kids transferred away from Randolph and also to WL; and Cristol and Karatonis have no children/no children in school.

Everything's fine when you can manuever your own way around things you want to avoid. But generally speaking the loudest and most influential AH advocates indeed live outside any areas even potentially impacted by their passionate advocacy, and board members wanting to be re-elected are beholden to them and the extremely influential AH developers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

Schools are relying more and more on virtual meetings and interactions for parents - parent teacher conferences, virtual; back to school night - virtual; information nights - virtual. School is fully open and there is no longer reason for these events to be virtual-only. Obviously, they think this is sufficient and therefore can continue offering virtual options for parents who don't want/can't drive to the school for everything.

But how about thinking outside the box a bit for a change? If we do "A" then "B" is a problem so instead of immediately deciding not to do "A" how about thinking of potential solutions for "B"? APS has run shuttles to WHS for back to school night. PTAs could facilitate carpooling efforts, APS can arrange shuttle services, schools could arrange for conferences in alternative locations, etc. And yes, that increases transportation costs blah blah blah. Tired of the excuses that are merely shields for admitting lack of desire for any change.

[Anonymous]

You are coming at this from a white person's perspective. Some of the people who fight the hardest against the 85% FRL schools being broken up are the people who are in those schools. Why? They don't have a problem with the way things are and they enjoy their school community.

Go ask parents at Randolph if they want to be bussed out of their neighborhood and up to Tuckahoe instead. They will slam the door in your face.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

Think about parents picking up their kids from extended day.

How many parents want to take a multi-bus route home at dinner time with a hungry, tired Kindergartener?

APS provides late buses. Bus drivers want full-time hours. APS can provide a second round of late buses at extended day dismissal. Or, eliminate school-site extended day programs and bus kids to area extended day facilities in neighborhoods. They can take the bus to those facilities after school just like others take the bus home from school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

Schools are relying more and more on virtual meetings and interactions for parents - parent teacher conferences, virtual; back to school night - virtual; information nights - virtual. School is fully open and there is no longer reason for these events to be virtual-only. Obviously, they think this is sufficient and therefore can continue offering virtual options for parents who don't want/can't drive to the school for everything.

But how about thinking outside the box a bit for a change? If we do "A" then "B" is a problem so instead of immediately deciding not to do "A" how about thinking of potential solutions for "B"? APS has run shuttles to WHS for back to school night. PTAs could facilitate carpooling efforts, APS can arrange shuttle services, schools could arrange for conferences in alternative locations, etc. And yes, that increases transportation costs blah blah blah. Tired of the excuses that are merely shields for admitting lack of desire for any change.

I mean, that's the thing, right? There is very little desire for any change, so why bother? What is your specific school situation that you don't like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

So it's realistic to think that a parent is going to tote multiple children on an ART bus, potentially 20+ minutes away, for a 10 minute parent teacher conference? Would you? No offense to PP, but when we think about these situations from positions of privilege, many important factors get overlooked. There's reasons why having your school in walking distance is a better solution.

I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the feedback. I still think not studying this is so short sighted. At least throw some analytical data behind it, do some polls of different populations, put together a cost benefit analysis.

Another +1 that this has been done, repeatedly. Surveys have overwhelmingly shown, especially at the elementary level, that the vast majority of parents of all races and SES levels value neighborhood schools over diversity. Studies have been done, analysis is there. Transportation costs are high, and almost no one is in favor of what it would entail to make it happen.

County policy, both decades ago and even now as they approve more and more AH, concentrates poverty. The only way for APS to overcome that is essentially via a lottery system, since you can't draw boundaries that balance across the system. This idea has been floated many times over the last 15yrs and is shot down every single time.

And yet a thoughtful lottery system involving ranked choices of schools and a formula of FRL%, ELL, other factors is, ironically, the most equitable approach. Nobody is guaranteed their closest school. Everybody gets comparable learning and social environments and access to similar PTA and other school community resources.

People like what they have and don't like change. Other jurisdictions prioritize socioeconomic diversity and opportunity for all and follow admissions policies that facilitate that. And people manage to survive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

So it's realistic to think that a parent is going to tote multiple children on an ART bus, potentially 20+ minutes away, for a 10 minute parent teacher conference? Would you? No offense to PP, but when we think about these situations from positions of privilege, many important factors get overlooked. There's reasons why having your school in walking distance is a better solution.

I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

Pointing out obstacles <> creating obstacles

Let’s address obstacles. What are some possible solutions for transportation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

So it's realistic to think that a parent is going to tote multiple children on an ART bus, potentially 20+ minutes away, for a 10 minute parent teacher conference? Would you? No offense to PP, but when we think about these situations from positions of privilege, many important factors get overlooked. There's reasons why having your school in walking distance is a better solution.

I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

Yes! That is the answer the the OP's question. Arlington doesn't care about it, so it won't happen. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

Yes! That is the answer the the OP's question. Arlington doesn't care about it, so it won't happen. Period.

Arlingtonians may care, but they care about other things more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are coming at this from a white person's perspective. Some of the people who fight the hardest against the 85% FRL schools being broken up are the people who are in those schools. Why? They don't have a problem with the way things are and they enjoy their school community.

Go ask parents at Randolph if they want to be bussed out of their neighborhood and up to Tuckahoe instead. They will slam the door in your face.

Because there is a tipping point for a FARMS rate in a school that when the FARMS rate exceeds it, the education provided to all students declines. And that has been proven over and over. Reducing the FARMS rate is actually an equality issue in education. White people just don't like to hear it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

So it's realistic to think that a parent is going to tote multiple children on an ART bus, potentially 20+ minutes away, for a 10 minute parent teacher conference? Would you? No offense to PP, but when we think about these situations from positions of privilege, many important factors get overlooked. There's reasons why having your school in walking distance is a better solution.

I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

Pointing out obstacles <> creating obstacles

Let’s address obstacles. What are some possible solutions for transportation?

The solution is to transport kids to their nearest school via foot, bike, car, or bus, assuming that by “solution” you mean giving the most families what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

So it's realistic to think that a parent is going to tote multiple children on an ART bus, potentially 20+ minutes away, for a 10 minute parent teacher conference? Would you? No offense to PP, but when we think about these situations from positions of privilege, many important factors get overlooked. There's reasons why having your school in walking distance is a better solution.

I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

Pointing out obstacles <> creating obstacles

Let’s address obstacles. What are some possible solutions for transportation?

The solution is to transport kids to their nearest school via foot, bike, car, or bus, assuming that by “solution” you mean giving the most families what they want.

How can we address transportation and also achieve socioeconomically diverse schools?

[Anonymous]

The only realistic way to have diverse neighborhood schools is to have diverse neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

So it's realistic to think that a parent is going to tote multiple children on an ART bus, potentially 20+ minutes away, for a 10 minute parent teacher conference? Would you? No offense to PP, but when we think about these situations from positions of privilege, many important factors get overlooked. There's reasons why having your school in walking distance is a better solution.

I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

OP, are you actually guerilla marketing for a sequel to this Podcast series? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html