Fairfax County Double Murder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do we know what happened in the time between Joe entered the house and Brendan came home? That's like 10 minutes.

Joe cut off Christines clothes and god knows what else, as he thought she was a willing participant. I hope he never knew the truth in the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A little off topic from the trial itself, but what would have happened if BB set this up so that Christine would be attacked/ r***d by Joe, but not killed? Like, if BB didn't ever plan on being home for any of it, he just wanted to do something horrific to Christine. Would Joe be charged with r*** even if he had no idea that Christine was not a willing participant? I can't imagine his own horror if he realized like, later that day, when the police came banging down his door, that he had accidentally done that to someone who had been set up by her husband. Obviously Christine's trauma would be huge. But I'm also imagining his own trauma here afterwords. And would he be charged, even once the catfishing evidence came to light?

I think that someone in that scenario would likely at least be charged and offered a plea deal or have charges dropped by prosecutors in order to cooperate against whoever solicited that. They are gonna at least get arrested and everything that comes with that. And that is why a lot of people they messaged refused to even entertain the scenario. The prosecutor read off one message in court where someone said something like “there’s no way I would ever go into your house in this scenario. You have to realize how bad that would look for me if your husband showed up.” I’m assuming they learned from these refusals and improved in their ability to manipulate later users including Joe.

This has already happened in real life, and Law & Order did an episode of it as well.

Here’s a story detailing the case of the woman whose exBF solicited a rapist on Craigslist to rape his exGF:
https://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/craigslist-rape-victim

That is terrifying. At least in that short article though, it sounds like the guy who committed the actual r*** just messaged the person back and then showed up and did that? Which to me, means he should have known it was fishy, or didn't care (or hoped??) that it was actually a real r***. I would think- hope- that if the guy and the fake Sarah spoke on the phone, and had days of texts about what exactly she wanted done, along with friendly chit chat about liking dogs, and about "i'll set an alarm and unchain you at X time" and "i'm worried about restraining you with that specific item because you won't be able to snap your fingers to signal you want me to stop" and "just to warn you that part of your body will bruise really easily if I do that even lightly, are you in to that or not?", then he'd have gotten off with a much lighter sentence if any sentence at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we revisit that he paid $30k+ to get the windows?!

Why? That’s what that many windows for a house that big would cost. Have you priced windows lately?

Yes, but presumably he didn’t need windows, just got them to dampen the sound.

Eh, the house probably had builder grade windows, so they wanted better, as in the double pane with energy treatment. What they didn’t actually need were the triple pane which was more sound deadening. He had a different reason for wanting that.

They didn't make the kind of money to drop 30k on new windows on a whim. It was a new home, builder grade or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we revisit that he paid $30k+ to get the windows?!

I spent more on widow treatments!!

But it is odd considering one thing he told JM was that if he divorced CB she would get more money than him... wouldn't that 30k be needed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we know what happened in the time between Joe entered the house and Brendan came home? That's like 10 minutes.

Joe cut off Christines clothes and god knows what else, as he thought she was a willing participant. I hope he never knew the truth in the end.

I think the most likely situation is that he showed up, started doing things he thought they'd agreed on, and then BB and J showed up and he thought her husband had unexpectedly come home and found them and shot him. He probably never knew he'd been set up, he probably thought BB had no idea what was happening.

[Anonymous]

It's the truth. You are making way too much of it. Please grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That is terrifying. At least in that short article though, it sounds like the guy who committed the actual r*** just messaged the person back and then showed up and did that? Which to me, means he should have known it was fishy, or didn't care (or hoped??) that it was actually a real r***. I would think- hope- that if the guy and the fake Sarah spoke on the phone, and had days of texts about what exactly she wanted done, along with friendly chit chat about liking dogs, and about "i'll set an alarm and unchain you at X time" and "i'm worried about restraining you with that specific item because you won't be able to snap your fingers to signal you want me to stop" and "just to warn you that part of your body will bruise really easily if I do that even lightly, are you in to that or not?", then he'd have gotten off with a much lighter sentence if any sentence at all.

I agree, Joe’s actions here seem pretty different from the defendant in that case. There was also a (45 minute long? I thought that was the length mentioned somewhere) phone call as well. We’ve gotten a little detail from Juliana on that but I assume they were validating any concerns pretty heavily. Like maybe showed parts of the house, etc. At that point he’s talking to a female inside the location that was part of the request. I don’t think a reasonable person would be like “maybe this could be the lady’s au pair soliciting my participation in a murder plot.” Obviously he was wrong but the lengths they went to were extremely bizarre and creepy. I don’t see a judge and jury deciding that Joe should go to prison for 60 years in this exact case had they somehow survived at the last second (unfortunately I don’t think that was ever a realistic probability). But I think there is going to be a legal issue there.

It goes without saying though that Joe is not on trial here. We can’t really fully hear the evidence that would support his side of the story. We don’t know exactly what happened on the phone call or the extent of the “evidence” he asked for. They were obviously trying really hard to manipulate him and there was a female in on it, so that made further manipulation possible. He also already paid the ultimate price for any mistakes he made.

[Anonymous]

$30K seems low for a whole house of triple paned windows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:$30K seems low for a whole house of triple paned windows.

Perhaps only need them triple paned on the top floor, where the murder would happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we revisit that he paid $30k+ to get the windows?!

That's crazy. I honestly think that if this crime happened exactly how the prosecution alleges it happened, this was about way more than him not wanting his wife around anymore so that it would be easier for him financially and logistically compared to divorce. It was about him truly wanting to commit a complex, brutal murder. Like, he planned this out meticulously for a long time, and spent 30 thousand dollars (not to mention the weapons, the gun range time, the new phones, and other incidentals) to carry it out. It is almost like the motive for the crime was just doing the crime itself, for fun. As opposed to getting rid of his wife- which he could have done for way cheaper, and way easier, and with way less blood and gore and without having to murder a second person in the process. It is terrifying.

And without involving his dumb au pair. So many faster and easier ways to kill someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we revisit that he paid $30k+ to get the windows?!

That's crazy. I honestly think that if this crime happened exactly how the prosecution alleges it happened, this was about way more than him not wanting his wife around anymore so that it would be easier for him financially and logistically compared to divorce. It was about him truly wanting to commit a complex, brutal murder. Like, he planned this out meticulously for a long time, and spent 30 thousand dollars (not to mention the weapons, the gun range time, the new phones, and other incidentals) to carry it out. It is almost like the motive for the crime was just doing the crime itself, for fun. As opposed to getting rid of his wife- which he could have done for way cheaper, and way easier, and with way less blood and gore and without having to murder a second person in the process. It is terrifying.

And without involving his dumb au pair. So many faster and easier ways to kill someone.

With everything he did to plan this, it's pretty crazy he involved two big X factors... another adult male with weapons and the low-IQ au pair. Even if this plan worked flawlessly, he's still killed a man (albeit in apparent defense of his wife) which would mean an investigation and the possibility of needing a lawyer and being suspended from work... so how on earth could that be logistically easier than a regular divorce? This must have been both about the brutality and the wanting to see if he was smart enough to get away with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the defense ask any questions about whether the forensic experts discovered any evidence that Christine fought back at anytime? Or if she was asleep until she was woken up by the stabbing? I hope the prosecution clears that time gap up because they will definitely show the jury the extent that the murder happened before Joe even started any of the planned fantasy. And it will dispute the claim that BB disrupted Joe attempting to kill Christine.

That doesn’t matter. They have evidence that BB catfished Joe. No one thinks BB tried to save the day.

It would be a big deal if they found Brendan’s dna under CB’s nails, for example

I thought the prosecution raised some unanswered questions about this. Juliana testified that she spoke to Joe on the phone and he commented on her accent. I'm not sure why they wanted to elicit that. How did Joe then not realize that Christine was a different person when he arrived in person?

I haven’t been listening to the testimony but my guess is that basically as soon as he walked into the bedroom he knew something was off and I think he was shot pretty much right thereafter. I don’t think the sex scenario had even started — there’s no indication that she was bound, for instance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the defense ask any questions about whether the forensic experts discovered any evidence that Christine fought back at anytime? Or if she was asleep until she was woken up by the stabbing? I hope the prosecution clears that time gap up because they will definitely show the jury the extent that the murder happened before Joe even started any of the planned fantasy. And it will dispute the claim that BB disrupted Joe attempting to kill Christine.

That doesn’t matter. They have evidence that BB catfished Joe. No one thinks BB tried to save the day.

Agree, but still want to know what happened. Is there any chance she was stabbed before the rape scenario even started?

JPM said that CB shouted "Brendan, he has a knife!"

So clearly CB was conscious when BB entered the room.

That is the most messed up part of this all. Christine is attacked, fears for her life and suddenly her husband is there, he will save her, he shoots him, shock and relief and in an instant her husband is on top of her stabbing her. It’s like the worst dream in the world. How could she even process all of that?

If I were on the jury I’d be angry there’s no court on Fridays. I’ve got my life on hold for this thing, let’s get it done ASAP. It feels really disrespectful to them.

Almost every court does this because the judge needs time to deal with motions in that case and other cases, and the alternative is to make the jury sit around on days when they are there. The feeling is the most people appreciate a long weekend and/or the time to catch up on their own work emails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:$30K seems low for a whole house of triple paned windows.

You might have uncovered another crime, consumer fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the defense ask any questions about whether the forensic experts discovered any evidence that Christine fought back at anytime? Or if she was asleep until she was woken up by the stabbing? I hope the prosecution clears that time gap up because they will definitely show the jury the extent that the murder happened before Joe even started any of the planned fantasy. And it will dispute the claim that BB disrupted Joe attempting to kill Christine.

That doesn’t matter. They have evidence that BB catfished Joe. No one thinks BB tried to save the day.

It would be a big deal if they found Brendan’s dna under CB’s nails, for example

I thought the prosecution raised some unanswered questions about this. Juliana testified that she spoke to Joe on the phone and he commented on her accent. I'm not sure why they wanted to elicit that. How did Joe then not realize that Christine was a different person when he arrived in person?

I haven’t been listening to the testimony but my guess is that basically as soon as he walked into the bedroom he knew something was off and I think he was shot pretty much right thereafter. I don’t think the sex scenario had even started — there’s no indication that she was bound, for instance.

No but the timeline has Joe coming, Juliana coming back home from wherever she was parked, calling Brendan, Brendan arriving back home, them taking the daughter and putting her in the basement, and then going upstairs. What happened between Joe and Christine in that time? Or is that not what happened