Boundary Review Meetings

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is what Reid said she will likely put forth as amendments to her original plan. She said she'll release Thursday. (This is my AI overview of her remarks):

- Proceed now with moving Walney Oaks (SPA 4420) from Franklin MS to Rocky Run MS.
- Defer decisions on Rolling Valley ES split feeder to a new review, with potential relief recommendations due January 2027.
- Defer Beech Tree ES moves tied to Glasgow MS relief; first implement the new Poe AAP center, then report back in January 2027 on Glasgow enrollment and demographics.
- Set January 2027 reviews for:
- Rolling Valley ES
- Beech Tree ES
- Lorton Station / Gunston / Halley / Laurel Hill area
- Graham Greenway / Jefferson Village / Kingsley Commons area
- Crossfield-to-Lee’s Corner 12-student move and related SPAs north of 395 aligned to Edison HS.
- Cardinal Forest / Keene Mill boundary question remains under staff review and may or may not be amended depending on new analysis and further input.

Those dastardly West Springfield moms and their SPA’s north of 395! This was all their doing! :lol:

Well, too bad for them. McDaniel said he wants to put WSHS on the list and thinks its overcrowded. He wants them added to the review for next year.

McDaniel hates West Springfield (the community) because he has a hatred for Pat Herrity and hates the Springfield community for continuing to elect Herrity.

McDaniel is doung this over a political grudge against 22153/22153, not because he cares about rezoning or capacity at WSHS.

DP. West Springfield is identified as the most overcrowded HS in the draft CIP. They lose credibility when they propose to move kids out of Justice, Marshall, and McLean, but not West Springfield. If you think their calculations are wrong you should demand a moratorium on any boundary changes until they audit how they are coming up with their program capacities and forecasts. Attacking individual board members reacting to the information in front of them isn’t a good look.

WSHS community members have raised questions about the data assumptions at WSHS throughout the entire boundary process. No one ever answers the question. The new CIP shows all of the ES feeders and Irving MS dropping in enrollment, but WSHS going up. And they don't explain that. And our school board rep didn't ask about it today at the CIP work meeting, which I listened to for that very reason.

+1 the numbers are suspect to me given the national trends. But at the same time, they have said for years that WSHS’s numbers are going to drop any time now and they just never do. So who knows?

If some of the original plan to move some of Hunt Valley to South County materializes, SCMS/HS won’t be able to pick up many if any other students. Moving some/all of Lorton Station AND some/all of HV south of the Parkway to SC isn’t workable and just creates a capacity situation at a different school.

I think if a neighborhood mives out of WSHS it should be Shannon Station from Keene Mill elementary on the other side of town, to next door White Oaks and Lake Braddock.

Was that one of the original proposed changes that they decided not to go ahead with? It’s a good idea.

It was in Map 4. I am not sure about earlier maps.

Dr. Reid's map changed it.

Instead of sending Shannon Station to White Oaks/Lake Braddock, she did a last minute switch that sends them to Cardinal Forest, then moves walkable Cardinal Forest homes to Keene Mill Elementary to make room for Shannon Station at Cardinal Forest.

Cardinal Forest is already full, and there are a lot of kids in Shannon Station, so there is no room for them at Cardinal Forest unless someone else is moved. Cardinal Forest has very tight boundaries, so anyone getting moved from Cardinal Forest to make room for Shannon Station is going to be unhappy, because almost all of the CF neighborhoods are walkable neighborhoods.

The last minute Shannon Station move by Dr. Reid was not a sensible change, if anyone looks at it objectively. But the Shannon Station families pushed for it.

It now will really matter, since Anderson and McDaniel are pushing to rezone WSHS in January 2027 based on today's work session.

Shannon Station was the most logical neighborhood to move out of WSHS to White Oaks and Lake Braddock, since they are so separate from the rest of Keene Mill, not very close to Cardinal Forest, and very close to White Oaks/LB.

But now that Reid is rezoning them to Cardinal Forest so they can stay at WSHS, Shannon Station will be protected from off cycle rezoning in 2027 and 5 year rezoning in 2031.

It really stinks that Dr. Reid did not keep Map 4 recommendations, at least for Shannon Station.

McDaniel did not say rezone WSHS next year. He said if WSHS continues to be overcrowded in 5 years it has to be looked at.

No, he said he will file an amendment asking Reid to put WSHS on the watch list of areas that will get reviewed starting in Jan 2027.

No, he didn’t. Why are you making things up?

Direct quote from his comments yesterday at the work session:

"The most overcrowded high school in the entire county right now is West Springfield. We're not changing West Springfield now. But what I'm hoping to do is that we put it on a review list. So going forward, we take a look at data assumptions, we take a look at program placement, take a look at transfers. Obviously there's going to be some type of an impact once AAP centers are rolled out countywide."

Perhaps you can tell us what nuance we're missing here.

You are absolutely correct. If there is a small nuance it is that he asked Reid to add it to the watchlist herself (write it into her revised recommendation) instead of him bringing forth a formal amendment. There is a strong and vocal group pushing for no amendments for region 4, this way their hands look clean because it becomes Reid again. The are not listening to their constituents...they are passing the buck. Nothing new in politics, but I think sometimes they forget that FCPS parents pay attention when their kids are being jerked around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sandy loves to pass Kyle notes during meetings He is 100% her most loyal minion. Clearly he knows he is on the way out so he might as well do whatever she wants to keep her in his pocket for whatever comes next. Other schools have used modulars to keep "numbers low" The two modular at WS are used for specific AP classes. Add 2 more and we will be well below the freak out percetage they keep throwing at us. And before people chime in saying how much modulars stink. I am a teacher who has taught in one for 5 year, they are fine. In fact, I like the peace and quiet away from inside! They are not the tin can trailors we had growing up.

+1
The “learning cottage” that I teach in has been on our school property for decades and there is no plan to reduce capacity and remove it or replace it with a newer modular (which are so nice!). I don’t know why people are up in arms about a temporary modular as a solution, when numbers are showing that upcoming classes are smaller in enrollment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what Reid said she will likely put forth as amendments to her original plan. She said she'll release Thursday. (This is my AI overview of her remarks):

- Proceed now with moving Walney Oaks (SPA 4420) from Franklin MS to Rocky Run MS.
- Defer decisions on Rolling Valley ES split feeder to a new review, with potential relief recommendations due January 2027.
- Defer Beech Tree ES moves tied to Glasgow MS relief; first implement the new Poe AAP center, then report back in January 2027 on Glasgow enrollment and demographics.
- Set January 2027 reviews for:
- Rolling Valley ES
- Beech Tree ES
- Lorton Station / Gunston / Halley / Laurel Hill area
- Graham Greenway / Jefferson Village / Kingsley Commons area
- Crossfield-to-Lee’s Corner 12-student move and related SPAs north of 395 aligned to Edison HS.
- Cardinal Forest / Keene Mill boundary question remains under staff review and may or may not be amended depending on new analysis and further input.

Those dastardly West Springfield moms and their SPA’s north of 395! This was all their doing! :lol:

Well, too bad for them. McDaniel said he wants to put WSHS on the list and thinks its overcrowded. He wants them added to the review for next year.

McDaniel hates West Springfield (the community) because he has a hatred for Pat Herrity and hates the Springfield community for continuing to elect Herrity.

McDaniel is doung this over a political grudge against 22153/22153, not because he cares about rezoning or capacity at WSHS.

DP. West Springfield is identified as the most overcrowded HS in the draft CIP. They lose credibility when they propose to move kids out of Justice, Marshall, and McLean, but not West Springfield. If you think their calculations are wrong you should demand a moratorium on any boundary changes until they audit how they are coming up with their program capacities and forecasts. Attacking individual board members reacting to the information in front of them isn’t a good look.

WSHS community members have raised questions about the data assumptions at WSHS throughout the entire boundary process. No one ever answers the question. The new CIP shows all of the ES feeders and Irving MS dropping in enrollment, but WSHS going up. And they don't explain that. And our school board rep didn't ask about it today at the CIP work meeting, which I listened to for that very reason.

+1 the numbers are suspect to me given the national trends. But at the same time, they have said for years that WSHS’s numbers are going to drop any time now and they just never do. So who knows?

If some of the original plan to move some of Hunt Valley to South County materializes, SCMS/HS won’t be able to pick up many if any other students. Moving some/all of Lorton Station AND some/all of HV south of the Parkway to SC isn’t workable and just creates a capacity situation at a different school.

I think if a neighborhood mives out of WSHS it should be Shannon Station from Keene Mill elementary on the other side of town, to next door White Oaks and Lake Braddock.

Was that one of the original proposed changes that they decided not to go ahead with? It’s a good idea.

It was in Map 4. I am not sure about earlier maps.

Dr. Reid's map changed it.

Instead of sending Shannon Station to White Oaks/Lake Braddock, she did a last minute switch that sends them to Cardinal Forest, then moves walkable Cardinal Forest homes to Keene Mill Elementary to make room for Shannon Station at Cardinal Forest.

Cardinal Forest is already full, and there are a lot of kids in Shannon Station, so there is no room for them at Cardinal Forest unless someone else is moved. Cardinal Forest has very tight boundaries, so anyone getting moved from Cardinal Forest to make room for Shannon Station is going to be unhappy, because almost all of the CF neighborhoods are walkable neighborhoods.

The last minute Shannon Station move by Dr. Reid was not a sensible change, if anyone looks at it objectively. But the Shannon Station families pushed for it.

It now will really matter, since Anderson and McDaniel are pushing to rezone WSHS in January 2027 based on today's work session.

Shannon Station was the most logical neighborhood to move out of WSHS to White Oaks and Lake Braddock, since they are so separate from the rest of Keene Mill, not very close to Cardinal Forest, and very close to White Oaks/LB.

But now that Reid is rezoning them to Cardinal Forest so they can stay at WSHS, Shannon Station will be protected from off cycle rezoning in 2027 and 5 year rezoning in 2031.

It really stinks that Dr. Reid did not keep Map 4 recommendations, at least for Shannon Station.

McDaniel did not say rezone WSHS next year. He said if WSHS continues to be overcrowded in 5 years it has to be looked at.

No, he said he will file an amendment asking Reid to put WSHS on the watch list of areas that will get reviewed starting in Jan 2027.

No, he didn’t. Why are you making things up?

Direct quote from his comments yesterday at the work session:

"The most overcrowded high school in the entire county right now is West Springfield. We're not changing West Springfield now. But what I'm hoping to do is that we put it on a review list. So going forward, we take a look at data assumptions, we take a look at program placement, take a look at transfers. Obviously there's going to be some type of an impact once AAP centers are rolled out countywide."

Perhaps you can tell us what nuance we're missing here.

Why are you selectively editing out the part where he repeatedly said for the next 5 year review cycle, and only if the enrollment data assumptions do show actual overcrowding following a review of programs and transfer policies? It’s like you think people are too stupid to go to YouTube and look for themselves.

In fact, here’s the video. People show watch for themselves and decide.

Comments start at 5:23:15

https://www.youtube.com/live/z-PpU_EqmJU?si=jSMYrs6HQI2yAi9k

Sounds like a hell of a lot more “process” for West Springfield than they’ve followed before kicking kids out of Marshall and McLean.

[Anonymous]

OMG, they are going to continue this for WSHS through 2027? That's absolutely ridiculous. This has caused so much stress in our community and now there isn't even going to be a decisive answer? Everybody needs a clear plan and then 5 years (at least) to make the changes and get used to the new boundaries.

Anyone who leads a large group of people knows that you cannot make every person happy. You have to do real research, listen to feedback, but then make the choice that benefits the overall group rather than the loudest voices.

This has been a complete failure of leadership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what Reid said she will likely put forth as amendments to her original plan. She said she'll release Thursday. (This is my AI overview of her remarks):

- Proceed now with moving Walney Oaks (SPA 4420) from Franklin MS to Rocky Run MS.
- Defer decisions on Rolling Valley ES split feeder to a new review, with potential relief recommendations due January 2027.
- Defer Beech Tree ES moves tied to Glasgow MS relief; first implement the new Poe AAP center, then report back in January 2027 on Glasgow enrollment and demographics.
- Set January 2027 reviews for:
- Rolling Valley ES
- Beech Tree ES
- Lorton Station / Gunston / Halley / Laurel Hill area
- Graham Greenway / Jefferson Village / Kingsley Commons area
- Crossfield-to-Lee’s Corner 12-student move and related SPAs north of 395 aligned to Edison HS.
- Cardinal Forest / Keene Mill boundary question remains under staff review and may or may not be amended depending on new analysis and further input.

Those dastardly West Springfield moms and their SPA’s north of 395! This was all their doing! :lol:

Well, too bad for them. McDaniel said he wants to put WSHS on the list and thinks its overcrowded. He wants them added to the review for next year.

McDaniel hates West Springfield (the community) because he has a hatred for Pat Herrity and hates the Springfield community for continuing to elect Herrity.

McDaniel is doung this over a political grudge against 22153/22153, not because he cares about rezoning or capacity at WSHS.

DP. West Springfield is identified as the most overcrowded HS in the draft CIP. They lose credibility when they propose to move kids out of Justice, Marshall, and McLean, but not West Springfield. If you think their calculations are wrong you should demand a moratorium on any boundary changes until they audit how they are coming up with their program capacities and forecasts. Attacking individual board members reacting to the information in front of them isn’t a good look.

WSHS community members have raised questions about the data assumptions at WSHS throughout the entire boundary process. No one ever answers the question. The new CIP shows all of the ES feeders and Irving MS dropping in enrollment, but WSHS going up. And they don't explain that. And our school board rep didn't ask about it today at the CIP work meeting, which I listened to for that very reason.

+1 the numbers are suspect to me given the national trends. But at the same time, they have said for years that WSHS’s numbers are going to drop any time now and they just never do. So who knows?

If some of the original plan to move some of Hunt Valley to South County materializes, SCMS/HS won’t be able to pick up many if any other students. Moving some/all of Lorton Station AND some/all of HV south of the Parkway to SC isn’t workable and just creates a capacity situation at a different school.

I think if a neighborhood mives out of WSHS it should be Shannon Station from Keene Mill elementary on the other side of town, to next door White Oaks and Lake Braddock.

Was that one of the original proposed changes that they decided not to go ahead with? It’s a good idea.

It was in Map 4. I am not sure about earlier maps.

Dr. Reid's map changed it.

Instead of sending Shannon Station to White Oaks/Lake Braddock, she did a last minute switch that sends them to Cardinal Forest, then moves walkable Cardinal Forest homes to Keene Mill Elementary to make room for Shannon Station at Cardinal Forest.

Cardinal Forest is already full, and there are a lot of kids in Shannon Station, so there is no room for them at Cardinal Forest unless someone else is moved. Cardinal Forest has very tight boundaries, so anyone getting moved from Cardinal Forest to make room for Shannon Station is going to be unhappy, because almost all of the CF neighborhoods are walkable neighborhoods.

The last minute Shannon Station move by Dr. Reid was not a sensible change, if anyone looks at it objectively. But the Shannon Station families pushed for it.

It now will really matter, since Anderson and McDaniel are pushing to rezone WSHS in January 2027 based on today's work session.

Shannon Station was the most logical neighborhood to move out of WSHS to White Oaks and Lake Braddock, since they are so separate from the rest of Keene Mill, not very close to Cardinal Forest, and very close to White Oaks/LB.

But now that Reid is rezoning them to Cardinal Forest so they can stay at WSHS, Shannon Station will be protected from off cycle rezoning in 2027 and 5 year rezoning in 2031.

It really stinks that Dr. Reid did not keep Map 4 recommendations, at least for Shannon Station.

McDaniel did not say rezone WSHS next year. He said if WSHS continues to be overcrowded in 5 years it has to be looked at.

No, he said he will file an amendment asking Reid to put WSHS on the watch list of areas that will get reviewed starting in Jan 2027.

No, he didn’t. Why are you making things up?

Direct quote from his comments yesterday at the work session:

"The most overcrowded high school in the entire county right now is West Springfield. We're not changing West Springfield now. But what I'm hoping to do is that we put it on a review list. So going forward, we take a look at data assumptions, we take a look at program placement, take a look at transfers. Obviously there's going to be some type of an impact once AAP centers are rolled out countywide."

Perhaps you can tell us what nuance we're missing here.

Why are you selectively editing out the part where he repeatedly said for the next 5 year review cycle, and only if the enrollment data assumptions do show actual overcrowding following a review of programs and transfer policies? It’s like you think people are too stupid to go to YouTube and look for themselves.

In fact, here’s the video. People show watch for themselves and decide.

Comments start at 5:23:15

https://www.youtube.com/live/z-PpU_EqmJU?si=jSMYrs6HQI2yAi9k

Sounds like a hell of a lot more “process” for West Springfield than they’ve followed before kicking kids out of Marshall and McLean.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sandy loves to pass Kyle notes during meetings He is 100% her most loyal minion. Clearly he knows he is on the way out so he might as well do whatever she wants to keep her in his pocket for whatever comes next. Other schools have used modulars to keep "numbers low" The two modular at WS are used for specific AP classes. Add 2 more and we will be well below the freak out percetage they keep throwing at us. And before people chime in saying how much modulars stink. I am a teacher who has taught in one for 5 year, they are fine. In fact, I like the peace and quiet away from inside! They are not the tin can trailors we had growing up.

+1
The “learning cottage” that I teach in has been on our school property for decades and there is no plan to reduce capacity and remove it or replace it with a newer modular (which are so nice!). I don’t know why people are up in arms about a temporary modular as a solution, when numbers are showing that upcoming classes are smaller in enrollment.

Some people keep trotting out this argument because it is true for FCPS overall, but it is not true universally across all schools. Some areas of the county are growing while others are shrinking. There are schools projected for higher numbers in the CIP. Those people are rightfully able to complain about the issue getting worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG, they are going to continue this for WSHS through 2027? That's absolutely ridiculous. This has caused so much stress in our community and now there isn't even going to be a decisive answer? Everybody needs a clear plan and then 5 years (at least) to make the changes and get used to the new boundaries.

Anyone who leads a large group of people knows that you cannot make every person happy. You have to do real research, listen to feedback, but then make the choice that benefits the overall group rather than the loudest voices.

This has been a complete failure of leadership.

Honestly. What’s left to kick the tires on? They know nobody wants to move. Some group isn’t going to magically emerge by extending the process. They’ve offered solutions utilizing neighboring AP schools with similar rankings. The transfer numbers are too low to make a meaningful impact on enrollment and they won’t admit to residency fraud whether it’s as rampant as this thread claims it to be or not.

Either determine the current capacity is acceptable, or move those scenario 4 SPAs to Lake Braddock. Prolonging this isn’t going to solve anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sandy loves to pass Kyle notes during meetings He is 100% her most loyal minion. Clearly he knows he is on the way out so he might as well do whatever she wants to keep her in his pocket for whatever comes next. Other schools have used modulars to keep "numbers low" The two modular at WS are used for specific AP classes. Add 2 more and we will be well below the freak out percetage they keep throwing at us. And before people chime in saying how much modulars stink. I am a teacher who has taught in one for 5 year, they are fine. In fact, I like the peace and quiet away from inside! They are not the tin can trailors we had growing up.

I used to teach in a modular too. I loved it. It was peaceful, and the kids were invigorated when they arrived to class after getting a brisk walk through fresh air.

[Anonymous]

Are we talking about actual modulars or trailers? There is a difference.

[Anonymous]

They either need to go with Map 4 moving Sangster and Shannon station to Lake Braddock, or leave WSHS alone for the next 5 years.

BRAC gave them a very good map. Map 4 was fair, reasonable, met all the mandates in the least disruptive way possible, and solved the WSHS overcrowding.

Reid rejected a perfectly good map that would have gixed WSHS.

The only change she should have made to Map 4 was keeping SPA 8922 at Lewis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are we talking about actual modulars or trailers? There is a difference.

I taught in a w classroom temporary trailer. It was great, better than teaching in a regular classroom.

I also had classes in one way back in the 80s.

The students loved the trailer classroom because we got to go outdoors for a bit between classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are we talking about actual modulars or trailers? There is a difference.

Learning Cottage = Trailer = Temporary Classroom

The focus on modulars seems to be case by case. Kilmer being the most obvious example where they lowered the program capacity to such an extreme that it appeared desperately over capacity even with a modular. Only to come back and show it was actually under capacity with the modular, but now they can get rid of it, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we talking about actual modulars or trailers? There is a difference.

I taught in a w classroom temporary trailer. It was great, better than teaching in a regular classroom.

I also had classes in one way back in the 80s.

The students loved the trailer classroom because we got to go outdoors for a bit between classes.

My experience from the 90s does not match yours. We did not like going out in the rain or cold, and if you had a class outside you had to hurry to get there on time and to your next class afterward, with no time to stop at a locker or visit the bathroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we talking about actual modulars or trailers? There is a difference.

I taught in a w classroom temporary trailer. It was great, better than teaching in a regular classroom.

I also had classes in one way back in the 80s.

The students loved the trailer classroom because we got to go outdoors for a bit between classes.

But how many trailers did your school have? Our school has one of the 4 classroom trailers and it works fine because it’s one structure and 100 ft from an entrance to the main building.
But then you look at the Google Earth view for Coates where the school is half trailer park. It becomes a lot less charming when there’s more than 10 trailers outside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They either need to go with Map 4 moving Sangster and Shannon station to Lake Braddock, or leave WSHS alone for the next 5 years.

BRAC gave them a very good map. Map 4 was fair, reasonable, met all the mandates in the least disruptive way possible, and solved the WSHS overcrowding.

Reid rejected a perfectly good map that would have gixed WSHS.

The only change she should have made to Map 4 was keeping SPA 8922 at Lewis.

You keep mentioning BRAC. Region 4 BRAC recommended the changes to map 4 based on updates numbers and community feedback. Reid adopted their recommendations for region 4. Moving those Sangster kids moved like 16 kids per class (it did almost zero in lowering any numbers, and moving RV at Lewis negated any 'numbers' in savings. I also believe that neighborhood has been busting its butt to prevent any neighborhoods in WS to be moved out. The target has moved and Reid will need to focus on a larger area to get WSHS under 115%. Or, neighborhoods unite together and keep pressure on Sandy to keep it off the vague 'watchlist' and into boundary cycle outlined by their own policy.