Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss Part II

[Anonymous]

Question - I've noticed a big size difference on the girls side between the A and B teams of some of the bigger CCL clubs. For example in the current U10 age group It seems that some of the girls are just as big as your average U11 player. When does this start to even out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question - I've noticed a big size difference on the girls side between the A and B teams of some of the bigger CCL clubs. For example in the current U10 age group It seems that some of the girls are just as big as your average U11 player. When does this start to even out?

i wouldnt say so much for size wise but the physical attributes and “skills” of many that were great advantage at u8-9 were minimalized at u11. speed advantage was minimalized at u12-u13. height seems to be changing at u14.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not CCL guy. What are your thoughts on CCL winning 8 out of 10 VA State Cup titles? Are other non-CCL teams participating in this competition? I know missing DA teams.

http://www.soccerwire.com/notes/club-champions-league-teams-claim-eight-of-10-fall-virginia-state-cup-titles/

There are a lot fewer teams this year. VPL teams are not playing, US Club soccer is running it's own version of the VA State Cup this year.

Yes VPL is missing but that "State Cup" is mainly going to be VPL teams only. Other teams in NCSL would likely rather participate in VYSA's Cup since it's run by US Youth Soccer and not Club Soccer. Do you think other teams have given up on participating since the last two editions of the competitions have been mainly won by CCL? Is it the price? Is it the distance to other parts in VA? It seems that the competition is mostly dominated by teams in the Northern Region of the State.

Looks like CCL is doing something well as being a good option outside of the DA. Any word on expansion for CCL to other clubs?

I'm a CCL parent and regardless what you think about the league, the teams are competitive. Whenever we participate in tournaments, we know the CCL teams will be solid competition. That's not to say we don't see some really good teams from other clubs. State cup is like any other tournament, you go on a streak and you can anyone can win. It has been pretty consistent that CCL will go deep at almost all age groups.

CCL is a joke. Two big clubs crushing everyone else.

[Anonymous]

CCL is a joke. Two big clubs crushing everyone else.

Which clubs? I’m not familiar this year with the competition.

[Anonymous]

I just quickly looked at the CCL website standings for all ages both sexs, Arlington seems to be a regular fixture in top 3 but i see a mix of SOCA, beach, mclean, nvsc, loudoun which doesnt seem to indicate a second team as successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Not CCL guy. What are your thoughts on CCL winning 8 out of 10 VA State Cup titles? Are other non-CCL teams participating in this competition? I know missing DA teams.

http://www.soccerwire.com/notes/club-champions-league-teams-claim-eight-of-10-fall-virginia-state-cup-titles/

There are a lot fewer teams this year. VPL teams are not playing, US Club soccer is running it's own version of the VA State Cup this year.

Yes VPL is missing but that "State Cup" is mainly going to be VPL teams only. Other teams in NCSL would likely rather participate in VYSA's Cup since it's run by US Youth Soccer and not Club Soccer. Do you think other teams have given up on participating since the last two editions of the competitions have been mainly won by CCL? Is it the price? Is it the distance to other parts in VA? It seems that the competition is mostly dominated by teams in the Northern Region of the State.

Looks like CCL is doing something well as being a good option outside of the DA. Any word on expansion for CCL to other clubs?

I'm a CCL parent and regardless what you think about the league, the teams are competitive. Whenever we participate in tournaments, we know the CCL teams will be solid competition. That's not to say we don't see some really good teams from other clubs. State cup is like any other tournament, you go on a streak and you can anyone can win. It has been pretty consistent that CCL will go deep at almost all age groups.

CCL is a joke. Two big clubs crushing everyone else.

What a hater. We get it, DA is the highest level. Since CCL is a joke, according to you, what's the next best option????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just quickly looked at the CCL website standings for all ages both sexs, Arlington seems to be a regular fixture in top 3 but i see a mix of SOCA, beach, mclean, nvsc, loudoun which doesnt seem to indicate a second team as successful.

Correct, Arlington may be the most consistent but there are other very good teams/clubs across all divisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just quickly looked at the CCL website standings for all ages both sexs, Arlington seems to be a regular fixture in top 3 but i see a mix of SOCA, beach, mclean, nvsc, loudoun which doesnt seem to indicate a second team as successful.

Correct, Arlington may be the most consistent but there are other very good teams/clubs across all divisions.

I've seen some Arlington 2nd teams who are better than most CCL 1st teams in their age groups.

[Anonymous]

Hey, with most of its teams entering only the U.S. Club "state cup," Vienna had a really good record in State Cup this fall! Did they win all their games, or did a second team enter?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just quickly looked at the CCL website standings for all ages both sexs, Arlington seems to be a regular fixture in top 3 but i see a mix of SOCA, beach, mclean, nvsc, loudoun which doesnt seem to indicate a second team as successful.

Correct, Arlington may be the most consistent but there are other very good teams/clubs across all divisions.

I've seen some Arlington 2nd teams who are better than most CCL 1st teams in their age groups.

I could say the same for other club's 2nd teams. It just depends on the year and the talent available.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't hold anything against players for seeking more opportunities to play, and you do bring up a very good point, the team could have rostered them and just saved them for the Sunday games or they had other commitments. More than anything I was reflecting upon the coaches who would bring a player of that caliber to a bracket in which most of the teams are in Division 6-4 of NCSL. Like you said, obviously that team did something right to get to the final, they were a very good team to begin with, which is why bringing the player seemed madly unnecessary. Maybe he used to play there and was just guesting for his own team, again, I don't blame the player, but that you'd think it is a nothingburger is questionable.

How is is it even remotely questionable? So a team brought some guest players, who cares. Your team could. And by the looks of it they did not lean on the kids for the tournament.

Perhaps the kids wanted to play with some friends. Most guest opportunities are as a result of some social connection to the host club. Some clubs will use guest opportunities to try and bring a player in but many use them simply for depth and ask kids who somebody on the team knows is available. Rarely is it so sinister as you make it out to be.

I've been a team manager for many years for two different teams and every tournament my kids' teams have been in (at least from U11-U14), refs have checked player cards and rosters for the final game. Maybe some rinky dink tournament would allow non-rostered guest players, but any credible tournament would not. Also, many tournaments have a rule that a player can't guest play for another team if the team with whom s/he is regularly rostered is playing in that tournament. So if the A and B teams of a club are both in a tournament, A team players can't guest for the B team.

I never heard of this...I've been a coach and a team manager. However, our club moves players between the the A and B team all the time based on availability, how they are currently playing, etc. and we play in the same tournaments. This has NEVER been a problem and my son has probably played in maybe 16-17 tournaments.

it's standard - you should read the tournament rules some time.

Do you know of it being strictly enforced?

Agree its standard. Enforcement depends on (1) how closely the tournament AGCs are checking rosters when they are submitted for check-in and whether they'd notice a player being double rostered and (2) whether the field marshal or ref are checking cards and rosters before the game to make sure the players match the roster. (2), in particular, can be pretty spotty when everyone is under pressure to keep the games moving and on schedule.

This was interesting so I contacted my son's team manager because I know we move and have moved players around all the time for tournaments and we have a tournament coming up next weekend. The team manager didn't know so he contacted the tournament director and the tournament director basically said that it's not a problem and just to scratch the kid from one roster and add him to the other. In other words, they don't enforce it.

It's generally referred to as a club pass - you have 36 or so kids in an age group with two teams as an example, and you can move them between rosters as you want. This is one of the foundational principles of CCL. However...each player does need to be on an 'official' roster - either US Club or USYS. That's what you show for a tournament. Most tournaments have rules that limit guest players to a certain number (usually about 4 or 5), and also rules that restrict one player being on multiple teams in a tournament. Then there's State Cup, which has a 'Frozen' roster at the start of the competition that carries through the final.

Clear as mud now?

The rules say that a player can not play for another team if his primary team is playing in the tournament. I don't think this rule is about kids playing on two teams in the same tournament. This is saying that you must play on the team that you are officially rostered on if that team is playing in the tournament. In other words, you cannot use club pass in some tournaments.

This is straight from Bethesda tournament rules as an example.

B. No player shall play for more than one team during the tournament.

C. Players must participate on their primary (or secondary if the primary team is not playing) team if they are registered for the tournament. Players can participate as secondary carded, as long as their primary team is not registered in the tournament. Exception: U9 through U11 players can participate on another team from within their own association and not be considered a guest player.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Excellent responses to the post I made about pay to play not being the only issue. Yes, we do have kids in the US who can afford to play, that play on their own, love the sport, are passionate, have the culture in their blood, have been outside the US, have parents that played all their lives, etc etc etc. We probably have a million of these kids. Yet we can't seem to get them together. I still think we need to find ways to make "elite" soccer more inclusive but the real problem is what the kids are learning and who the coaches are selecting. We need to start there. The question is...how does that change?

It's funny. The soccer landscape is huge in the DMV. I have a U-10 and a U-13. I have worked hard to find training and places that do things the right way. What is incredible, is I'll show up to a training session or camp (not well broadcast) and it will be the same 10 or so families everywhere I go. I always feel confident my instincts were correct when I see these people who I've seen since my kids were age 7 at the same places, clubs, camps, etc.

I will add, we are from all over the area---Maryland, VA, etc---but end up the same places with the same gripes about travel clubs. And, yes, either the mom or dad played at a very high level themselves and are disappointed in the choices/options available. How to get a bigger group? I'm not even sure.

I have tired to wrangle my older child's friends into some of the stuff we are doing---but they are so caught up in team color and winning tournaments, etc. One now has a 14-year old child and is trying to back track and catch up on all the things my kids have been doing since a young age. If the parents weren't heavily involved in the soccer scene as children/teens--it's really hard to get them to understand that what they are being told and sold is crap. So--millions keep paying for it and if their kid moves up a single team they think it's a huge success (not noting any technical skill development, btw---just 'we made the A team!".

What places have you ended up at? We do a lot of extra soccer training - Super Y, winter clinics, summer soccer day camps, in addition to the regular team. We moved to a club that isn't as well regarded on this board but is teaching our U14 possession and skills rather than just kicking and aggression.

I'd definitely cut out Super Y.

The question was "what places have you ended up at?" NOT "what should we cut". I'd love to know what programs you consider better than others?

Would love to hear follow up from the poster with u10 and u13 players. We are planning to pull our kids from club soccer (both top players/teams) for all the reasons cited above. Have tried several clubs over past several years, big to small. It's all the same stuff (meaningless tournaments, non-possession kickball soccer, etc.). What are the alternatives at these ages? Pick-up down at the community center? Training privately with a great trainer? Playing with friends and family? Braddock tried to think outside the box, but still participates in the whole tournament nonsense that parents and clubs love (but does nothing for my players' development). TIA!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just quickly looked at the CCL website standings for all ages both sexs, Arlington seems to be a regular fixture in top 3 but i see a mix of SOCA, beach, mclean, nvsc, loudoun which doesnt seem to indicate a second team as successful.

Correct, Arlington may be the most consistent but there are other very good teams/clubs across all divisions.

I've seen some Arlington 2nd teams who are better than most CCL 1st teams in their age groups.

I could say the same for other club's 2nd teams. It just depends on the year and the talent available.

If that is true, what happens to the Club's 2nd team over time?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just quickly looked at the CCL website standings for all ages both sexs, Arlington seems to be a regular fixture in top 3 but i see a mix of SOCA, beach, mclean, nvsc, loudoun which doesnt seem to indicate a second team as successful.

Correct, Arlington may be the most consistent but there are other very good teams/clubs across all divisions.

I've seen some Arlington 2nd teams who are better than most CCL 1st teams in their age groups.

I could say the same for other club's 2nd teams. It just depends on the year and the talent available.

If that is true, what happens to the Club's 2nd team over time?

That is a question that it would love to know more about. I assume that some of the better players eventually leave for the 1st team or look for opportunities elsewhere that allows them to play at a higher level. I think that is one of the big issues with CCL because it limits a club's 2nd team from playing against higher level competition. Maybe if they had a system where it allowed some club's 2nd teams to play against 1st teams it would allow them to retain that talented team within the club for a longer time. With Arlington having larger numbers in their program, it allows their 2nd teams to consistently be strong while others at other clubs look for greener pastures. I've heard someone say promotion/relegation within ccl/ccl2 but it would be difficult for scheduling if 1 club has 2 teams in ccl and they are playing against a club that only has 1.

[Anonymous]

Why can't we develop 20 kids out of the millions of kids that are playing?

Aside from the pay "big bucks" to play system. It is partly because we don't have enough good coaches who truly understand the game. We joined a local DA program mainly because of a Coach with a great resume/reputation, however, said Coach left for another local program over the summer....so now we are suffering with the replacement coach who clearly does not belong at this level. We have literally been outscored something like 20-1 in the last month or so, and can barely compete. Despite loosing most of the season so far, the Coach has not changed anything with his approach/tactics. I could argue my kid is almost regressing at the DA level because of inept coaching.