Fairfax County GT/AAP Appeals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for a person who's familiar with the process ( or anyone else!), would the WISC scores actually play a part in decisions or is it all based on GBRS ratings? I'm thinking to apply for my child next year and was told to do the test ( which is a costly option for us ).

WISC scores MAY play a part if a student is on the borderline of being found eligible. WISC scores are NOT required, however. If you plan to do a parent referral next year, you may wish to make an appointment with the AART at your school and get his/her thoughts about the test scores, GBRS with commentary, etc. Then you may want to consider planning for a WISC after the initial decisions are sent out in the spring.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, so what conditions constitute the borderline eligibility? If that helps my child is in 4th grade now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, so what conditions constitute the borderline eligibility? If that helps my child is in 4th grade now.

If the NNAT2 or the CogAT are below (roughly) the 130 mark or the GBRS with Commentary is anything less than 12

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the committee looks at what the parent submitted.

I have to assume someone from the AAP program is reading these threads and answering these questions in such an authoritative manner.
Otherwise it's just a parent-gadfly whose assertions are entitled to zero credibilty.

The question that I asked, and that the poster responded to, was about the GBRS committee at the school. It was not about the central selection committee.

the point remains. Who answered the question? Someone who knows what he/she is talking about?

The person had stated that they had participated on a number if these committees. On DCUM people aren't usually going to give their name and exact credentials. I think you need to have a certain amount of faith or trust to productively participate in an anonymous forum. I am assuming that the majority are honest and well-meaning parents and professionals. While I'm sure there are exceptions, I would rather be mislead occasionally than to view every statement with mistrust. If I needed information to make some sort of critical decision then obviously I would confirm it another way.

I am the person who posted about the committee process and included the link to the GBRS form. I am an FCPS administrator and have sat on the school screening committees both as a teacher and as an administrator. On behalf of my colleagues, we really are trying our best and put a great deal of time, energy and consideration to this process. Is it a perfect program? Absolutely not, and that's all I say on that topic.

My goal everyday is to meet the needs of ALL the children at my school regardless of their WISC,NNAT, CogAT or GBRS score. I think we do a pretty good job, and we do even better when we work in collaboration with parents. Best wishes to all of you for a safe summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for a person who's familiar with the process ( or anyone else!), would the WISC scores actually play a part in decisions or is it all based on GBRS ratings? I'm thinking to apply for my child next year and was told to do the test ( which is a costly option for us ).

I don't know your family's circumstances but if your child is eligible for free or reduced price lunch, you can have the WISC testing done for free or at a discounted rate at George Mason University (GMU).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, so what conditions constitute the borderline eligibility? If that helps my child is in 4th grade now.

You may want to provide more details on why your child is not in AAP while in 4th grade. Did you move in Fairfax county recently? All the 2nd graders in Fairfax public school system should been screened for AAP. If you just moved here, you need contact the school for screening. If your child is in private school, you can have your child take the group NNAT/CoGAT test, while is $150 for both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child scored >99.9% very superior with FSIQ of 152 in WISC IV. His GBRS is low at 10. what are chances on appeal?

Overall, he gets bored in the regular class and gets annoyed by repeating subjects. I want him to excel and get out of the boredom mode, I am afraid his teacher has ruined it for him though with the low GBRS ratings!

His one teacher didn't ruin it for him. The GBRS is developed through a committee including the AART, the teacher, an administrator and possibly another teacher all looking at work samples, asking a lot of questions and sharing observations. I've sat on several of these committees. They're pretty intense, and I can assure you that it's not the teacher just sitting there spitting out a number.

Being familiar with the process, do you think he might have a chance on appeal? He is a very smart boy with all full grades all the time. But he is more on the shy side of things, I talked to his teacher after we received the denial and she recommended to do the WISC test. For other posters who implied my child was prepped: we got the denial letter beginning of May and he took the test two weeks later so there wasn't time to prep. So, I don't even know how the prep would have helped since he told me the questions were all about reasoning/verbal comprehension/ memory speed (remembering numbers up to 9 digits and be able to repeat back in reverse), making complex block diagram after looking at the image for seconds, talking about a subject, etc... anyway, I guess my patience is being tested for the next couple of weeks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child scored >99.9% very superior with FSIQ of 152 in WISC IV. His GBRS is low at 10. what are chances on appeal?

Overall, he gets bored in the regular class and gets annoyed by repeating subjects. I want him to excel and get out of the boredom mode, I am afraid his teacher has ruined it for him though with the low GBRS ratings!

His one teacher didn't ruin it for him. The GBRS is developed through a committee including the AART, the teacher, an administrator and possibly another teacher all looking at work samples, asking a lot of questions and sharing observations. I've sat on several of these committees. They're pretty intense, and I can assure you that it's not the teacher just sitting there spitting out a number.

Being familiar with the process, do you think he might have a chance on appeal? He is a very smart boy with all full grades all the time. But he is more on the shy side of things, I talked to his teacher after we received the denial and she recommended to do the WISC test. For other posters who implied my child was prepped: we got the denial letter beginning of May and he took the test two weeks later so there wasn't time to prep. So, I don't even know how the prep would have helped since he told me the questions were all about reasoning/verbal comprehension/ memory speed (remembering numbers up to 9 digits and be able to repeat back in reverse), making complex block diagram after looking at the image for seconds, talking about a subject, etc... anyway, I guess my patience is being tested for the next couple of weeks!

You are absolutely right PP, there is no way anyone can prep for WISC and get scores even close to your DC's scores. I can see high FxAT scores being affected by prepping, but WISC scores cannot be prepped to this level. So, I am still asking the same question, hoping for an answer that makes sense: How can a child do so well on all tests and still get a low GBRS? And how isn't that a failure of the school and/or the teacher? And please, let's not mention prepping again, it doesn't work with individualized tests like WISC.

[Anonymous]

So, I am still asking the same question, hoping for an answer that makes sense: How can a child do so well on all tests and still get a low GBRS?

The answer can still be found in the below quote:

This is the GBRS form that is used and available on the FCPS website. Nothing secretive or special that the committee does with it other than spend time talking through each of the 4 sections in depth and asking each other questions. We go through all the indicators and present possible examples that illustrate frequency of that behavior. In all the committees I have sat on in several schools, the child is always presented in the strongest possible light, and we really try to give as many examples as possible to support the frequency rating.

The bottom line is that school staff are rating the frequency of what they see in the academic setting. As a parent I know that what I see at home is different than what my kid presents at school. Parents don't sit in the classroom 7 hours a day and observe their child. I can see why parents might be frustrated or not understand why the committee gave a GBRS rating lower than what their perception is. Also, parents need to know that there are 4 areas that are rated. Your child may consistently show behaviors in one area, and it's obvious to everyone both at home and at school. But in the other 3 areas, your child may not be as consistent. That one area of strength does not trump everything else. For example, the scores could be 4, 1, 2, 2 which comes out to a 9.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/packet/Fillable_AAPGBRSwithCommentary.pdf

Children are rated on four different categories of gifted behaviors. Not every gifted child will exhibit every type of gifted behavior, many will be stronger in some areas than in others. A 10 is not really a low "score" on this scale when you take all the variables into account. When you carefully read all the examples of behaviors listed as possibilities on the scale, it actually appears that it would be more unusual to max out all four categories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So, I am still asking the same question, hoping for an answer that makes sense: How can a child do so well on all tests and still get a low GBRS?

The answer can still be found in the below quote:

This is the GBRS form that is used and available on the FCPS website. Nothing secretive or special that the committee does with it other than spend time talking through each of the 4 sections in depth and asking each other questions. We go through all the indicators and present possible examples that illustrate frequency of that behavior. In all the committees I have sat on in several schools, the child is always presented in the strongest possible light, and we really try to give as many examples as possible to support the frequency rating.

The bottom line is that school staff are rating the frequency of what they see in the academic setting. As a parent I know that what I see at home is different than what my kid presents at school. Parents don't sit in the classroom 7 hours a day and observe their child. I can see why parents might be frustrated or not understand why the committee gave a GBRS rating lower than what their perception is. Also, parents need to know that there are 4 areas that are rated. Your child may consistently show behaviors in one area, and it's obvious to everyone both at home and at school. But in the other 3 areas, your child may not be as consistent. That one area of strength does not trump everything else. For example, the scores could be 4, 1, 2, 2 which comes out to a 9.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/packet/Fillable_AAPGBRSwithCommentary.pdf

Children are rated on four different categories of gifted behaviors. Not every gifted child will exhibit every type of gifted behavior, many will be stronger in some areas than in others. A 10 is not really a low "score" on this scale when you take all the variables into account. When you carefully read all the examples of behaviors listed as possibilities on the scale, it actually appears that it would be more unusual to max out all four categories.

I don't remember the exact breakdown but in order on the page he has : 2,2,3,3 which adds up to 10. You say 10 is not low but he didn't get it either!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't remember the exact breakdown but in order on the page he has : 2,2,3,3 which adds up to 10. You say 10 is not low but he didn't get it either!

I would think that is a little above average. Did you read the Commentary? Strong scores with good commentary would likely result in eligibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't remember the exact breakdown but in order on the page he has : 2,2,3,3 which adds up to 10. You say 10 is not low but he didn't get it either!

I would think that is a little above average. Did you read the Commentary? Strong scores with good commentary would likely result in eligibility.

Well, perfect question! I think the problem is that the commentary is so poor. I mean that the wording and also the reasoning is so poorly worded and it's not even relevant to the scores. I was so shocked to see such a poor writing and thinking from a teacher? Forget about AAP, I am not sure if that kind of writing qualifies teaching! I don't mean to be rude and I respect all teachers, so I lean towards rushed than poor education on teacher's part. However, as a parent, it does concern me and that's why we opted for WISC. I just hope the county be fair and looks at the WISC scores and admits that not all teachers are best to evaluate the kids.

[Anonymous]

And why do we assume that teachers are well educated? Most go to second tier schools and struggle with math and writing.....

[Anonymous]

Really? We have been so impressed with our FCPS teachers' dedication, intelligence, enthusiasm for teaching and boundless energy. Maybe we have just lucked out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really? We have been so impressed with our FCPS teachers' dedication, intelligence, enthusiasm for teaching and boundless energy. Maybe we have just lucked out.

Well dedication, intelligence & enthusiasm don't really mean or prove that they have had good education! You could be all that but still lack many educational skills!