This is why we cannot talk

[Anonymous]

Spouse and I are at what feels like a communications impasse. Basically, spouse complains we never "talk" anymore. But I dread "talking" because I have come to learn it means I will be subjected to an extended and repetitive conversation that features one or more of the following:

1) A rant. What could be communicated in two minutes (which would be more appropriate when spouse interrupts me during the work day) turns into a 30-minute diatribe.
2) Extreme pessimism on spouse's part (whatever problem is present -- whether it be something with the kids' school, something at work, something with church or whatever) has to immediately assume the worst case scenario is playing out/is inevitable.
3) Name-calling (associated with the first two... so, the teacher or work colleague or fellow volunteer is a back-stabbing whore or a bitch or something worse in relation to whatever transgression, real or imagined, has occurred).
4) A lecture. Not, "honey you forgot to wash the pot when you cleaned the kitchen" but rather a 20-minute lecture on how failing to wash the pot will do X, Y, Z. Spouse does this with the children, too.
5) A refutal of anything I say, particularly if it points out a different scenario than the worst case outcome, replete with a complain that spouse cannot talk to me anymore. Or, in the alternative, an attack for listening to passively (because I've learned that I will be attacked if I say anything).

It's exhausting. And, yes, I avoid conversation now. The negativity and anger and speed to annoyance trigger anxiety for me.

Yes, spouse is probably depressed. But spouse has lots of anger literally related to relationship with mother. Freud would have a field day.

[Anonymous]

You both need to be in therapy, like months ago! You need to be in a "safe" place where you can both talk with a neutral third party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You both need to be in therapy, like months ago! You need to be in a "safe" place where you can both talk with a neutral third party.

Probably true, although spouse would find fault with everything therapist said and would call therapist names.

[Anonymous]

When a woman says let's have a talk it really means sit down and shut up and let me tell you all the ways you have been fucking up.

[Anonymous]

Sadly, it seems a lot of women are like this (I say this and I am a woman). I just want to shake these women and remind them that your partner is not your punching bag. Sometimes I catch myself venting to my own fiancé and stop and tell myself, okay, its off my chest, enough negativity, and move on. A lot of women can't seem to turn off he negativity. Ever.

[Anonymous]

Depression and anxiety can manifest as anger. Perhaps your wife should contemplate therapy. It might be helpful for you to have some counseling yourself about dealing with your relationship, which does take two people. Have you specifically told your wife why you don't want to talk and that it is anxiety-producing? She might be too in her own head with anxiety and/or depression to really realize it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Spouse and I are at what feels like a communications impasse. Basically, spouse complains we never "talk" anymore. But I dread "talking" because I have come to learn it means I will be subjected to an extended and repetitive conversation that features one or more of the following:

1) A rant. What could be communicated in two minutes (which would be more appropriate when spouse interrupts me during the work day) turns into a 30-minute diatribe.
2) Extreme pessimism on spouse's part (whatever problem is present -- whether it be something with the kids' school, something at work, something with church or whatever) has to immediately assume the worst case scenario is playing out/is inevitable.
3) Name-calling (associated with the first two... so, the teacher or work colleague or fellow volunteer is a back-stabbing whore or a bitch or something worse in relation to whatever transgression, real or imagined, has occurred).
4) A lecture. Not, "honey you forgot to wash the pot when you cleaned the kitchen" but rather a 20-minute lecture on how failing to wash the pot will do X, Y, Z. Spouse does this with the children, too.
5) A refutal of anything I say, particularly if it points out a different scenario than the worst case outcome, replete with a complain that spouse cannot talk to me anymore. Or, in the alternative, an attack for listening to passively (because I've learned that I will be attacked if I say anything).

It's exhausting. And, yes, I avoid conversation now. The negativity and anger and speed to annoyance trigger anxiety for me.

Yes, spouse is probably depressed. But spouse has lots of anger literally related to relationship with mother. Freud would have a field day.

That definitely doesn sound much fun. Do you ever just ask her to talk? Like a question that would not trigger any of these (if that exists?) or is the response to everything angry and pessimistic? Was she always like this? Can you express worry that she is always upset and seems stressed? I'm not saying it's all on you to fix it but you can try because the alternative is if she doesn't change back to how she used to be and no one should ahve to put up with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse and I are at what feels like a communications impasse. Basically, spouse complains we never "talk" anymore. But I dread "talking" because I have come to learn it means I will be subjected to an extended and repetitive conversation that features one or more of the following:

1) A rant. What could be communicated in two minutes (which would be more appropriate when spouse interrupts me during the work day) turns into a 30-minute diatribe.
2) Extreme pessimism on spouse's part (whatever problem is present -- whether it be something with the kids' school, something at work, something with church or whatever) has to immediately assume the worst case scenario is playing out/is inevitable.
3) Name-calling (associated with the first two... so, the teacher or work colleague or fellow volunteer is a back-stabbing whore or a bitch or something worse in relation to whatever transgression, real or imagined, has occurred).
4) A lecture. Not, "honey you forgot to wash the pot when you cleaned the kitchen" but rather a 20-minute lecture on how failing to wash the pot will do X, Y, Z. Spouse does this with the children, too.
5) A refutal of anything I say, particularly if it points out a different scenario than the worst case outcome, replete with a complain that spouse cannot talk to me anymore. Or, in the alternative, an attack for listening to passively (because I've learned that I will be attacked if I say anything).

It's exhausting. And, yes, I avoid conversation now. The negativity and anger and speed to annoyance trigger anxiety for me.

Yes, spouse is probably depressed. But spouse has lots of anger literally related to relationship with mother. Freud would have a field day.

That definitely doesn sound much fun. Do you ever just ask her to talk? Like a question that would not trigger any of these (if that exists?) or is the response to everything angry and pessimistic? Was she always like this? Can you express worry that she is always upset and seems stressed? I'm not saying it's all on you to fix it but you can try because the alternative is if she doesn't change back to how she used to be and no one should ahve to put up with this.

In hindsight, yes, she's always been a bit like this but it seems to be getting worse as she ages. She seems to have conflict with EVERYONE. The pattern is she meets someone, announces how she TOTALLY LOVES THEM. And then, within months or so, there's usually some falling out that's always the other person's fault (because everyone else is always an idiot, or worse). And, she wants me to hear and validate this when she's come to the conclusion just how evil/incompetent/awful some other person is.

No, I don't approach her to talk anymore since it's always a minefield. And if I ask for her counsel about something -- say, a problem at work -- she starts telling me exactly what I'm supposed to do.

It's just bizarre.

What stresses me out most is listening to how she lectures the children, who are 13 and 11 now. They're starting to roll their eyes. It's never just "clean up your room" but rather a whole diatribe about how they have it easy, we don't ask much of them, how they have a responsibility to keep their room cleaned, etc. Me, I just say "clean your room -- you cannot go to your friend's house or have your friend over until you do." No lecture.

[Anonymous]

Is your spouse a heterosexual woman? If so, she sounds like my husband's soulmate. Maybe we could set them up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse and I are at what feels like a communications impasse. Basically, spouse complains we never "talk" anymore. But I dread "talking" because I have come to learn it means I will be subjected to an extended and repetitive conversation that features one or more of the following:

1) A rant. What could be communicated in two minutes (which would be more appropriate when spouse interrupts me during the work day) turns into a 30-minute diatribe.
2) Extreme pessimism on spouse's part (whatever problem is present -- whether it be something with the kids' school, something at work, something with church or whatever) has to immediately assume the worst case scenario is playing out/is inevitable.
3) Name-calling (associated with the first two... so, the teacher or work colleague or fellow volunteer is a back-stabbing whore or a bitch or something worse in relation to whatever transgression, real or imagined, has occurred).
4) A lecture. Not, "honey you forgot to wash the pot when you cleaned the kitchen" but rather a 20-minute lecture on how failing to wash the pot will do X, Y, Z. Spouse does this with the children, too.
5) A refutal of anything I say, particularly if it points out a different scenario than the worst case outcome, replete with a complain that spouse cannot talk to me anymore. Or, in the alternative, an attack for listening to passively (because I've learned that I will be attacked if I say anything).

It's exhausting. And, yes, I avoid conversation now. The negativity and anger and speed to annoyance trigger anxiety for me.

Yes, spouse is probably depressed. But spouse has lots of anger literally related to relationship with mother. Freud would have a field day.

That definitely doesn sound much fun. Do you ever just ask her to talk? Like a question that would not trigger any of these (if that exists?) or is the response to everything angry and pessimistic? Was she always like this? Can you express worry that she is always upset and seems stressed? I'm not saying it's all on you to fix it but you can try because the alternative is if she doesn't change back to how she used to be and no one should ahve to put up with this.

In hindsight, yes, she's always been a bit like this but it seems to be getting worse as she ages. She seems to have conflict with EVERYONE. The pattern is she meets someone, announces how she TOTALLY LOVES THEM. And then, within months or so, there's usually some falling out that's always the other person's fault (because everyone else is always an idiot, or worse). And, she wants me to hear and validate this when she's come to the conclusion just how evil/incompetent/awful some other person is.

No, I don't approach her to talk anymore since it's always a minefield. And if I ask for her counsel about something -- say, a problem at work -- she starts telling me exactly what I'm supposed to do.

It's just bizarre.

What stresses me out most is listening to how she lectures the children, who are 13 and 11 now. They're starting to roll their eyes. It's never just "clean up your room" but rather a whole diatribe about how they have it easy, we don't ask much of them, how they have a responsibility to keep their room cleaned, etc. Me, I just say "clean your room -- you cannot go to your friend's house or have your friend over until you do." No lecture.

You say "just clean your room" and they know what that's supposed to mean because she "lectures" and teaches them (repeatedly, as children need). You then berate her for this, and/or cut her off emotionally. She "name calls" people who aren't present, and you micromanage her speech and tone police her. You have pre-determined the "appropriate" amount of time for her "rants", which means you are either psychic and already know what she feels and is trying to express or are not even actually listening and just tapping your toe, waiting to check out. And I'm sure the pot lecture wasn't just a one-time thing. Probably more like the 4th or 5th time she had to explain to another grown adult how to do a simple housekeeping task (though I suspect there's some sense of "but that's her job" going on here, too).

People are always so quick to call this behavior set a disorder, when it's more accurately a response. If she wasn't like this when you met her (and I doubt she was or you wouldn't have married her), this is responsive to something, most likely environmental stress.

If you're just looking to rag on your spouse, go for it. DCUM is certainly the place. But if you care at all for this person, you'd be well-served to look at how your antagonistic, judgmental, emotionally unavailable behavior (as indicated by the way you speak of "spouse") is exacerbating the situation.

[Anonymous]

Also? "We cannot talk" isn't the same as "I refuse to speak openly with this person (and would rather judge hir on the internet)"

You choose to refrain from engaging your spouse, sharing your perspective, having an opinion, taking up your own space. Just like you've chosen to assign blame/responsibility for your inactions, and have tried to make it about how you "just can't even" because she is who/how you allege. Blameshifting is real.

Again, look to yourself and your own contributions to this situation. That's what you can control.

[Anonymous]

My DH and I are in a similar situation. He complains that we never "talk", but all he wants to talk about is his work situation and his income. When he's not doing that he's complaining about something I did that wasn't good enough. He's right--I don't initiate conversation because it will inevitably turn into him talking about his work and it already dominates our household. Then if I tell him how I feel about it he reminds me that he makes more money than I do so his work should be as important to me as it is to him. He's in sales and I'm a teacher. My income will never match his. It's not like he thought that I had sky high income potential when we got married and I've disappointed him--when we met I was in grad school to become a teacher.

He also has the same complex as OP's spouse where the problem lies with everyone else. Everyone else besides him is incompetent and not nearly as talented as he is.

Commiseration, OP. Ugh.

[Anonymous]

Forget counseling, you and the kids setup an intervention. Make a list of the concerns you all have and suggest solutions.
She will have no choice but to listen.

[Anonymous]

Spouse needs to start seeing a therapist to talk about the issues related to the mother. That's the root cause of the behaviors.

If your spouse is able to work on that for a while, then the two of you could also meet with a counselor to find a non-blaming, neutral way to try to learn to reset some of the ways you communicate and interact, so that you don't fall into the negative and pointless dynamic you're in now. As it stands, you're just triggering each other's ingrained reactions, and those are deep ruts. It takes a lot of mindfulness and work to learn to deal with ingrained emotional reactions, halt things in their tracks, and head down a different and more positive path.

The pattern of meeting people and doing the idealize/demonize thing is a borderline personality disorder behavior. Totally not implying your spouse has this disorder, more that they need to look at what core damage they have as a result of issues with their mom, and work on healing that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse and I are at what feels like a communications impasse. Basically, spouse complains we never "talk" anymore. But I dread "talking" because I have come to learn it means I will be subjected to an extended and repetitive conversation that features one or more of the following:

1) A rant. What could be communicated in two minutes (which would be more appropriate when spouse interrupts me during the work day) turns into a 30-minute diatribe.
2) Extreme pessimism on spouse's part (whatever problem is present -- whether it be something with the kids' school, something at work, something with church or whatever) has to immediately assume the worst case scenario is playing out/is inevitable.
3) Name-calling (associated with the first two... so, the teacher or work colleague or fellow volunteer is a back-stabbing whore or a bitch or something worse in relation to whatever transgression, real or imagined, has occurred).
4) A lecture. Not, "honey you forgot to wash the pot when you cleaned the kitchen" but rather a 20-minute lecture on how failing to wash the pot will do X, Y, Z. Spouse does this with the children, too.
5) A refutal of anything I say, particularly if it points out a different scenario than the worst case outcome, replete with a complain that spouse cannot talk to me anymore. Or, in the alternative, an attack for listening to passively (because I've learned that I will be attacked if I say anything).

It's exhausting. And, yes, I avoid conversation now. The negativity and anger and speed to annoyance trigger anxiety for me.

Yes, spouse is probably depressed. But spouse has lots of anger literally related to relationship with mother. Freud would have a field day.

That definitely doesn sound much fun. Do you ever just ask her to talk? Like a question that would not trigger any of these (if that exists?) or is the response to everything angry and pessimistic? Was she always like this? Can you express worry that she is always upset and seems stressed? I'm not saying it's all on you to fix it but you can try because the alternative is if she doesn't change back to how she used to be and no one should ahve to put up with this.

In hindsight, yes, she's always been a bit like this but it seems to be getting worse as she ages. She seems to have conflict with EVERYONE. The pattern is she meets someone, announces how she TOTALLY LOVES THEM. And then, within months or so, there's usually some falling out that's always the other person's fault (because everyone else is always an idiot, or worse). And, she wants me to hear and validate this when she's come to the conclusion just how evil/incompetent/awful some other person is.

No, I don't approach her to talk anymore since it's always a minefield. And if I ask for her counsel about something -- say, a problem at work -- she starts telling me exactly what I'm supposed to do.

It's just bizarre.

What stresses me out most is listening to how she lectures the children, who are 13 and 11 now. They're starting to roll their eyes. It's never just "clean up your room" but rather a whole diatribe about how they have it easy, we don't ask much of them, how they have a responsibility to keep their room cleaned, etc. Me, I just say "clean your room -- you cannot go to your friend's house or have your friend over until you do." No lecture.

You say "just clean your room" and they know what that's supposed to mean because she "lectures" and teaches them (repeatedly, as children need). You then berate her for this, and/or cut her off emotionally. She "name calls" people who aren't present, and you micromanage her speech and tone police her. You have pre-determined the "appropriate" amount of time for her "rants", which means you are either psychic and already know what she feels and is trying to express or are not even actually listening and just tapping your toe, waiting to check out. And I'm sure the pot lecture wasn't just a one-time thing. Probably more like the 4th or 5th time she had to explain to another grown adult how to do a simple housekeeping task (though I suspect there's some sense of "but that's her job" going on here, too).

People are always so quick to call this behavior set a disorder, when it's more accurately a response. If she wasn't like this when you met her (and I doubt she was or you wouldn't have married her), this is responsive to something, most likely environmental stress.

If you're just looking to rag on your spouse, go for it. DCUM is certainly the place. But if you care at all for this person, you'd be well-served to look at how your antagonistic, judgmental, emotionally unavailable behavior (as indicated by the way you speak of "spouse") is exacerbating the situation.

. Well said!!!