This is why we cannot talk

[Anonymous]

I can guarantee your spouse has already picked up in the fact that you dread talking with her which makes her feel more depressed/angry. I think you need to look at how your behavior is contributing to the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You say "just clean your room" and they know what that's supposed to mean because she "lectures" and teaches them (repeatedly, as children need). You then berate her for this, and/or cut her off emotionally. She "name calls" people who aren't present, and you micromanage her speech and tone police her. You have pre-determined the "appropriate" amount of time for her "rants", which means you are either psychic and already know what she feels and is trying to express or are not even actually listening and just tapping your toe, waiting to check out. And I'm sure the pot lecture wasn't just a one-time thing. Probably more like the 4th or 5th time she had to explain to another grown adult how to do a simple housekeeping task (though I suspect there's some sense of "but that's her job" going on here, too).

People are always so quick to call this behavior set a disorder, when it's more accurately a response. If she wasn't like this when you met her (and I doubt she was or you wouldn't have married her), this is responsive to something, most likely environmental stress.

If you're just looking to rag on your spouse, go for it. DCUM is certainly the place. But if you care at all for this person, you'd be well-served to look at how your antagonistic, judgmental, emotionally unavailable behavior (as indicated by the way you speak of "spouse") is exacerbating the situation.

Actually, no.

They know what "clean your room" means because it's a very clear directive.

I don't berate her, ever. I don't know where you got that. I don't micromanage her speech or tone. Where do you get that.

I work at home. In no workplace is it appropriate for "do you have a minute" to turn into a 30-minute whine fest during the workday. If you do this to your spouse, you're 100% in the wrong. But it's not ME who''s setting the predetermination. If you ask for a minute, literally take a minute. Don't take 30 or get pissy if I remind you I'm working. She does this.

As for the pot lecture, save it. She doesn't do any housework at all, so she doesn't get to criticize how I do it. The end.

You? I should give you the back of my hand. Please don't respond anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can guarantee your spouse has already picked up in the fact that you dread talking with her which makes her feel more depressed/angry. I think you need to look at how your behavior is contributing to the problem.

My own behavior? No. This is all her.

The few times I tried to engage it directly, she attacked. It's what she does -- she attacks. Me, the children. She literally snarl at the children if she's angry with them. If anyone dares challenge her or call her out on her persistent negativity, it's all our fault for being too sensitive and we should stop internalizing things all the time. Never mind that we all walk on eggshells around her.

My behavior was to disengage. It's a matter of self-preservation and I will not be made to feel guilty for it.

[Anonymous]

You sound very angry and that there could not be any other point of view. I agree with you that the described behavior is no good. But being angry about it is not going to help YOU. There must have been some good in her if you married her. Could you go to couples counseling? Or if you dislike her as much as it comes across here, are you just there for the kids? I am just struggling to understand why you think this is so cut and dry and, if so, why you are still there.

It may be that she is just a mess and it's all her fault, but you can control your own behavior and whether you stay. Or if you feel like you can't leave, try to find some peace with the situation. But by just checking out, you are doing something and you are contributing to the ongoing nature of the relationship.

[Anonymous]

I love how the bitter women of DCUM immediately turn on this poor dude and call him "emotionally unavailable." Enough with the trendy buzzwords. It's highly possible--indeed, likely--that his wife is simply a miserable bitch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You say "just clean your room" and they know what that's supposed to mean because she "lectures" and teaches them (repeatedly, as children need). You then berate her for this, and/or cut her off emotionally. She "name calls" people who aren't present, and you micromanage her speech and tone police her. You have pre-determined the "appropriate" amount of time for her "rants", which means you are either psychic and already know what she feels and is trying to express or are not even actually listening and just tapping your toe, waiting to check out. And I'm sure the pot lecture wasn't just a one-time thing. Probably more like the 4th or 5th time she had to explain to another grown adult how to do a simple housekeeping task (though I suspect there's some sense of "but that's her job" going on here, too).

People are always so quick to call this behavior set a disorder, when it's more accurately a response. If she wasn't like this when you met her (and I doubt she was or you wouldn't have married her), this is responsive to something, most likely environmental stress.

If you're just looking to rag on your spouse, go for it. DCUM is certainly the place. But if you care at all for this person, you'd be well-served to look at how your antagonistic, judgmental, emotionally unavailable behavior (as indicated by the way you speak of "spouse") is exacerbating the situation.

Actually, no.

They know what "clean your room" means because it's a very clear directive.

I don't berate her, ever. I don't know where you got that. I don't micromanage her speech or tone. Where do you get that.

I work at home. In no workplace is it appropriate for "do you have a minute" to turn into a 30-minute whine fest during the workday. If you do this to your spouse, you're 100% in the wrong. But it's not ME who''s setting the predetermination. If you ask for a minute, literally take a minute. Don't take 30 or get pissy if I remind you I'm working. She does this.

As for the pot lecture, save it. She doesn't do any housework at all, so she doesn't get to criticize how I do it. The end.

You? I should give you the back of my hand. Please don't respond anymore.

This is the way you "remind" her, isn't it? But it's okay, because you said please, right?

Your wife needs to leave you, because you're an idiot and a jerk. I hope you get what you deserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can guarantee your spouse has already picked up in the fact that you dread talking with her which makes her feel more depressed/angry. I think you need to look at how your behavior is contributing to the problem.

My own behavior? No. This is all her.

The few times I tried to engage it directly, she attacked. It's what she does -- she attacks. Me, the children. She literally snarl at the children if she's angry with them. If anyone dares challenge her or call her out on her persistent negativity, it's all our fault for being too sensitive and we should stop internalizing things all the time. Never mind that we all walk on eggshells around her.

My behavior was to disengage. It's a matter of self-preservation and I will not be made to feel guilty for it.

Guy who threatens violence against an internet commenter claims he "walks on eggshells". Right, OP.

I hope you're not in sales...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both need to be in therapy, like months ago! You need to be in a "safe" place where you can both talk with a neutral third party.

Probably true, although spouse would find fault with everything therapist said and would call therapist names.

That might be true but it also sounds like you now have a preconceived notion of your spouse and every negative thing they say is amplified and confirms your viewpoint of them. That is just as problematic as spouse's negativity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love how the bitter women of DCUM immediately turn on this poor dude and call him "emotionally unavailable." Enough with the trendy buzzwords. It's highly possible--indeed, likely--that his wife is simply a miserable bitch.

I've supported a lot of guys who have posted on here in the past. That said OP has said that his wife LITERALLY snarls at children and threatened to backhand another poster. He's also equated what would be appropriate workplace conversation to what would be appropriate spousal conversation.

He sounds like he's either overexaggerating or should have left his wife years ago. But his entire writing style, if it is remotely like his speaking style, is so unbelievably negative and condescending and filled with disgust towards his wife that there is virtually no way he isn't contributing to the problem.

OP I think the way you feel about your wife (the disgust and contempt is leaping of the screen) is almost impossible to come back from in a marriage. Do both of you a favor (and probably your kids) and divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both need to be in therapy, like months ago! You need to be in a "safe" place where you can both talk with a neutral third party.

Probably true, although spouse would find fault with everything therapist said and would call therapist names.

That might be true but it also sounds like you now have a preconceived notion of your spouse and every negative thing they say is amplified and confirms your viewpoint of them. That is just as problematic as spouse's negativity

Wouldn't that be a post-conceived notion? It's based on experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can guarantee your spouse has already picked up in the fact that you dread talking with her which makes her feel more depressed/angry. I think you need to look at how your behavior is contributing to the problem.

My own behavior? No. This is all her.

The few times I tried to engage it directly, she attacked. It's what she does -- she attacks. Me, the children. She literally snarl at the children if she's angry with them. If anyone dares challenge her or call her out on her persistent negativity, it's all our fault for being too sensitive and we should stop internalizing things all the time. Never mind that we all walk on eggshells around her.

My behavior was to disengage. It's a matter of self-preservation and I will not be made to feel guilty for it.

New PP here, I've met people like that, the anger, the negativity, the attacks, it is exhausting I really see what you mean OP... And I atend to see the same strategy from the spouse : they become quiet, quiet and even more quiet. They maximize conflict avoidance and disengage emotionally. Up to the point when sometimes the nice spouse that everybody thought was completely dominated by angry spouse ends up in an affair and leave, to the utter astonishment of the angry spouse (that's the happy end). But in any case, the worse is for the children ... When spouse is silent and avoiding conflict they are not protected, when spouse rebels by leaving they end up alone with angry spouse..

So, my conclusion? Grow a back bone.. I know. It is unfair to say that, you certainly have a backbone and just want to avoid dealing with perpetual conflict. But you need to set ground rules and be firm, if not for your own sake then for your kids. A therapist as neutral third party could help but you should also be able to do it on your own.

I keep wondering if the quiet/conflict avoiding reaction is a full consequence of the angry spouse behavior, or if one is not fueling the other. I know other couples with an angry/negative spouse but where the other spouse is stronger and calling BS easily. The ones that manage to do that without creating endless conflicts are very laid back, they use humor and at the same type they are very firm. I have to say they also seem emotionally disengaged, they don't seem to take the anger/attacks from their spouse seriously but they don't let them cross a line and are able to remind the ground rules in a very polite/cold/matter of fact way. For ex. "No Mary please don't do that, we already discuss it I don't like it", end of discussion, no negotiations, smiles and move one (physically if needed).

I am not saying that's a great solution for a happy marriage (the angry spouse is too much of a pain for a really happy marriage) but the big advantage is for the kids: they see that the bully doesn't have all the rights, they see you stand up for them if needed. They have a reliable, emotionally stable parent to turn to. And that's already great

[Anonymous]

OP, I know what you are dealing with. There is a book called "Stop Walking On Eggshells" which addresses every single thing that you have described, down to her propensity to worship people when she first meets them to demonizing them when they inevitably disappoint her.

Google the book, read it, find a therapist that will teach you how to set appropriate boundaries with a borderline spouse. Do it today.

Ignore any of the comments in this thread that are blaming you, I totally get where you are coming from and it is exhausting beyond belief. There is no winning a fight with her, you need to shift your paradigm from trying to get her to understand to setting boundaries, it's the only way you will survive this.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Enough with the trendy buzzwords.

Know it all know nothings.

I for one feel great pity for all the husbands these bitter harpies married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I know what you are dealing with. There is a book called "Stop Walking On Eggshells" which addresses every single thing that you have described, down to her propensity to worship people when she first meets them to demonizing them when they inevitably disappoint her.

Google the book, read it, find a therapist that will teach you how to set appropriate boundaries with a borderline spouse. Do it today.

Ignore any of the comments in this thread that are blaming you, I totally get where you are coming from and it is exhausting beyond belief. There is no winning a fight with her, you need to shift your paradigm from trying to get her to understand to setting boundaries, it's the only way you will survive this.

Good luck.

Serious question, OP saying he should backhand another PP raises no red flags for you?

[Anonymous]

The men (usually men) who are so quick to call their wives "borderline," or say the problem is just their crazy wife, always fail to look at their own contributions to the dynamic.

OP, if you seriously want to improve your life and your marriage, you both need to get into therapy and do the hard work of looking at yourselves. That's all there is to it. I'm sorry, but there is no other way to improve the situation and typing out your anger on an anonymous internet forum will change nothing.

If your spouse won't go into therapy, go yourself.

If you don't want to do that, ask yourself what you are getting out of the status quo and why you are so determined to refuse to do the one thing that could really change your life.