Seriously with the book banning ?

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone on dcum know someone personally impacted by all of this crazy book banning?

I’d like to hear from someone who supports these bans to share a story of someone they know who was personally harmed by one of the books banned.

Interesting that no one could give specific example of this.

Why does someone have to be “personally harmed” for it to be wrong? Would you like *your* young children exposed to, say, a religion you don’t practice or political opinions you don’t agree with - while in school?? You’d be the first to be outraged about that. Such hypocrisy. Read all the sexual books you want with your kids. Leave mine out of it.

We’re talking about high school. Do you think high schoolers have to be sheltered fromm”sexual content” in the form of a comic book?

I have no problem with my teenagers reading this book.

I have no problem with children learning about different religions at any age. What a weird fear.

NP. Yes, I want my high schooler to be sheltered from sexual content. That's a parenting decision. You can make a different parenting decision. We can both have what we want by not placing highly sexual content in schools.

Do I also get to take things out of schools I find objectionable? I find the pledge of allegiance objectionable on several levels. Can I have it removed so that not just my but all kids are not exposed to it? Do you agree that’s my right as a parent?

The Pledge of Allegiance? Why is that objectionable to you?

Because it’s indoctrination. On a superficial level I don’t believe kids should feel pressure to mention god in schools. And I think mindless chants like this are at best silly and at worst too like the indoctrination that took place in authoritarian regimes of the 20th century, both fascist and communist.

Also do you not know any Jehovah’s Witnesses? If your school had a number of families of that faith you ok with them petitioning to get rid of the pledge?

DP. So you consider the Pledge of Allegiance “mindless indoctrination,” but you’re a-ok with books that depict graphic sex acts in our public school libraries. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

No one is making kids read those books and they are certainly not reading them aloud in the classroom on a daily basis.
Are you that bad at arguing your point? Apparently so.

We have so many kids in this country who are unsupervised and accessing all kinds of violent and sexually explicit materials in their homes. Public schools do not need to be making such materials easily available.

Guess what, they're not! The book in question is nowhere near what you seem to be describing.

I bet you want to ban Toni Morrison, too, don't you.

How about we ban the Bible? Talk about explicit! Rapes, murder, teenagers being impregnated by god, descriptions of genitals. I'd like to ban that in every school. Agree?

I think you know kids aren't checking out the Bible at school.

I thought the point was to ban things conservatives fine objectionable like violent and sexual material, not whether it’s popular or not. There’s no consistency.

First of all, i work in public schools evaluatiing kids. If there is a Bible in the middle or high school media centers in my school system, you'd have to look hard to find them. I would have no objection to Toni Morrison's books in a senior high school. I stand by my previous comments that I do not think any sexually explicit materials should be in an elementary or middle school.

Where has Gender Queer been in an elementary school library? Or even middle schools?

If it were, that would be a problem right?

Definitely

Okay, here is discussion of the book in a grade 6-12 school library.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2022/07/28/gender-queer-book-faces-parent-challenge-in-jcps/65384393007/

Wait. Grades 9-12 are high school. Are you saying a school that has grades 6-12 should only have books in their library that are appropriate for grades 6-8? Is that what you are suggesting? That high schoolers in such a situation should still be stuck reading middle-school level books??? WTH.

When my kids were younger, they could only check out books that were in their age categories. Pretty sure this is typical. It's an easy remedy.

I'm saying this is an example of Gender Queer being in a library in a 6-8 setting, since an example was requested.

You are being so obviously silly, I'm not going to address your questions. Being against pornography in schools is clearly not the same as being against advanced level literature being in schools. This is why no one takes you people and your strawmen seriously.

Except if you read the story you will the the quote that says middle schoolers can't check it out.

Ok, lets go with that, that no middle schools in America have this book. Im still trying to understand to understand the left's position that this book is age appropriate. While I grant that the book has some educational and mind expanding concepts, it has passages that are far too mature for school children up to grade 12. Specifically, I'm disturbed by the scene of tqo sisters sitting together, legs draped over each other, while one sister encourages the other to taste her vaginal fluid. I'm also concerned about the scene with the dildo and the dialogue including "I want your c--- in my mouth" and "I'm going to give you the bl----- of your life". I think alternative texts may be more appropriate for schools.

Tell the truth: you think there is no age your precious darling one should see this book.


I remember in 1970s sneaking looks at "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex" when I was 12 os so and babysitting. So glad I did. What they taught us in school was incredibly lacking.

Reading that book kept me from engaging in sex until I was out of college.

Knowledge is power. I was actually in Salvation Army one time when I overheard an elderly woman tell her friend she got pregnant in middle school because she had no idea what sex was and no idea what was happening.

Can you address the content pp found inappropriate? Why are you ignoring that component?

DP in the context of the book I think these scenes are not meant as titillating and pornographic. Just like Judy Blume, whose books have been challenged. Parents might feel uncomfortable with the idea of their kids reading some of her stories, but they are the sorts of issues that kids wonder and think about. The body is not a gross disgusting shameful thing. It’s so much healthier for kids to be comfortable with their bodies than ashamed of them.
And again, if you think these things are shameful and too adult for your 16 year old to know about, that’s your prerogative as a parent. You don’t get to dictate what other parents decide for theirs.

I read Judy Blume's "are you there, God?" She didnt talk about tasting her vaginal fluid or wanting c---- in her mouth.

Where is the line? Is there one?

Do you think vaginal fluid is shameful? I get that you find that scene icky. But some kids might be curious. What would you do if your DD was curious about it? Would you even be able to hsve a conversation with her?

Do you object to children’s books about poop? Because ick, right?

I dont think it is normal for families to have discussions about tasting vaginal fluid. There are a range of topics that are atypical in any setting, much less as a fireside chat with the family. If this is something that is normal to you, I sincerely wish you peace and healing.

You’ve got quite the imagination there.

That’s literally a scene from the book. One that many find objectionable.

So don't read it.

But don't you dare try to censor the rest of us.

You are more than welcome to buy the book for your kids. I don’t think it should be present in a school library.

Who died and mare you king?

When republicans do better than expected in the mid-terms, look at parental exclusion from school decision-making as a primary cause. The moderates aren’t happy.

You aren't moderate.

That’s what you think. Hate to break it to you, I’m not alone. There’s a large number of people who currently feel politically homeless. The democrats are doing themselves no favors at the moment. I can count on one hand, maybe two, the number of times I’ve voted Republican in my lifetime. If the Supreme Court hadn’t laid waste to Roe v Wade the mid-terms would be a washout. I’ll research who I vote for, and any position with any responsibility over schools will not get a Democratic vote from me.

What is "moderate" about your views? You simply believe in censorship and imposing your views on the rest of us.

You can try to clamp down on your kids all you want, but as soon as they have friends and phones, they are going to get a blizzard of information... a lot of it wrong... that you won't be able to stop. Books in schools that have been reviewed by professionals are not the problem.

My kids don’t have unfettered access to the internet. I used to live in Silicon Valley and I still work in technology. Many of the big players out there keep their kids off the internet, for good reasons. Letting them do whatever they want online is like dropping them alone into Times Square in the 1970’s. Neither is good parenting. Schools don’t have the right to expose children to sexual content against their parent’s wishes.

So funny.

Your kids don’t have friends? That's where I learned all the good details, starting at age 10.

Sounds like you and your friends had a different kind of upbringing.

DP I was as sheltered as they come and have a fond memory of being at my best friend's house at age 12 or 13 and giggling for over an hour with her as we looked through her parents' copy of the Joy of Sex.

My own parents would never have guessed I had seen that book.

DP. Yes, I remember doing something similar at a friend's house. Question - would your parents have wanted that book available to you in the school library?

Was that book written for school aged kids?

You do know Gender Queer was not marketed to a YA audience - right?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sorry - a person wearing a dildo and another person giving them a blow job pretty much fits the definition of pornography. If you can’t admit that, there is just nothing more to say.

This has nothing to do with sex education.

Sex ed is not just about reproduction.

You’re right! For Republicans, sex ed is about girls pledging their virginity to their fathers and everyone praising Jesus and learning that birth control makes you get pregnant. Abstinence only for all!

Can’t believe I’m bothering to respond to a troll, but here we are. Sex ed is not about using dildos and giving blow jobs. That you think it is (or *should* be) speaks volumes about you and what you expose your kids to.

I distinctly recall someone asking the sex ed teacher to explain fellatio when I was a junior. Why do you want teenagers to be in the dark about such things? Are you repressed? Healthy sexuality means being able to discuss sex without embarrassment.

These are discussions for parents and children. Random teachers should not be talking to children about this. This is an issue of values, not education.

It wasn’t random, it was a sex-ed teacher and she answered matter of factly. It’s a fact of life that oral sex is a part of many human beings’ sex life. You want to cover your kids’s ears so they don’t discover what fellatio is in a respectful classroom setting, take them out of sex ed. they’ll probably end up as the wildest, most experimental ones because you’ve made it off-limits and mysterious.

Newsflash: you can be sexually normal while also knowing that there is a time and a place for sexual behavior and sexual content. Not knowing boundaries, and acting out sexually in public, is a sign of mental illness.

They were in a sex ed class and a student asked a perfectly legit question about sex.

And you think that means they are mentally ill.

I hope to God you don't have children.

There’s a difference between a teacher factually answering a question about oral sex and the images in this book being available on the school library shelves. I genuinely don’t understand why you don’t see a difference between those two scenarios. You seem to have no boundaries around sex and children. I know I’m not alone when I say I find that disturbing.

You said the teacher was wrong as well to be answering the question and the student was mentally ill for asking it.

We see through your "genuine concern."

I

Im the pp that made the mental illness comment. I certainly was not calling the child who asked abour oral sex mentally ill.

I am saying that the inability to discern any sexual boundaries at all, particularly with children, is often associated with mental illness. And certainly, anyone who flips through the passages of Gender Queer and thinks that graphic depictions of minors engaged in sex acts and dialogue like "Im going to give you the best blow-- of your life" and "I want you inside of me" and then puts it in the kids section of the library is either 1) depraved or 2) has a poor grip on reality.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone on dcum know someone personally impacted by all of this crazy book banning?

I’d like to hear from someone who supports these bans to share a story of someone they know who was personally harmed by one of the books banned.

Interesting that no one could give specific example of this.

Why does someone have to be “personally harmed” for it to be wrong? Would you like *your* young children exposed to, say, a religion you don’t practice or political opinions you don’t agree with - while in school?? You’d be the first to be outraged about that. Such hypocrisy. Read all the sexual books you want with your kids. Leave mine out of it.

We’re talking about high school. Do you think high schoolers have to be sheltered fromm”sexual content” in the form of a comic book?

I have no problem with my teenagers reading this book.

I have no problem with children learning about different religions at any age. What a weird fear.

NP. Yes, I want my high schooler to be sheltered from sexual content. That's a parenting decision. You can make a different parenting decision. We can both have what we want by not placing highly sexual content in schools.

Do I also get to take things out of schools I find objectionable? I find the pledge of allegiance objectionable on several levels. Can I have it removed so that not just my but all kids are not exposed to it? Do you agree that’s my right as a parent?

The Pledge of Allegiance? Why is that objectionable to you?

Because it’s indoctrination. On a superficial level I don’t believe kids should feel pressure to mention god in schools. And I think mindless chants like this are at best silly and at worst too like the indoctrination that took place in authoritarian regimes of the 20th century, both fascist and communist.

Also do you not know any Jehovah’s Witnesses? If your school had a number of families of that faith you ok with them petitioning to get rid of the pledge?

DP. So you consider the Pledge of Allegiance “mindless indoctrination,” but you’re a-ok with books that depict graphic sex acts in our public school libraries. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

No one is making kids read those books and they are certainly not reading them aloud in the classroom on a daily basis.
Are you that bad at arguing your point? Apparently so.

We have so many kids in this country who are unsupervised and accessing all kinds of violent and sexually explicit materials in their homes. Public schools do not need to be making such materials easily available.

Guess what, they're not! The book in question is nowhere near what you seem to be describing.

I bet you want to ban Toni Morrison, too, don't you.

How about we ban the Bible? Talk about explicit! Rapes, murder, teenagers being impregnated by god, descriptions of genitals. I'd like to ban that in every school. Agree?

I think you know kids aren't checking out the Bible at school.

I thought the point was to ban things conservatives fine objectionable like violent and sexual material, not whether it’s popular or not. There’s no consistency.

First of all, i work in public schools evaluatiing kids. If there is a Bible in the middle or high school media centers in my school system, you'd have to look hard to find them. I would have no objection to Toni Morrison's books in a senior high school. I stand by my previous comments that I do not think any sexually explicit materials should be in an elementary or middle school.

Where has Gender Queer been in an elementary school library? Or even middle schools?

If it were, that would be a problem right?

Definitely

Okay, here is discussion of the book in a grade 6-12 school library.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2022/07/28/gender-queer-book-faces-parent-challenge-in-jcps/65384393007/

Wait. Grades 9-12 are high school. Are you saying a school that has grades 6-12 should only have books in their library that are appropriate for grades 6-8? Is that what you are suggesting? That high schoolers in such a situation should still be stuck reading middle-school level books??? WTH.

When my kids were younger, they could only check out books that were in their age categories. Pretty sure this is typical. It's an easy remedy.

I'm saying this is an example of Gender Queer being in a library in a 6-8 setting, since an example was requested.

You are being so obviously silly, I'm not going to address your questions. Being against pornography in schools is clearly not the same as being against advanced level literature being in schools. This is why no one takes you people and your strawmen seriously.

Except if you read the story you will the the quote that says middle schoolers can't check it out.

Ok, lets go with that, that no middle schools in America have this book. Im still trying to understand to understand the left's position that this book is age appropriate. While I grant that the book has some educational and mind expanding concepts, it has passages that are far too mature for school children up to grade 12. Specifically, I'm disturbed by the scene of tqo sisters sitting together, legs draped over each other, while one sister encourages the other to taste her vaginal fluid. I'm also concerned about the scene with the dildo and the dialogue including "I want your c--- in my mouth" and "I'm going to give you the bl----- of your life". I think alternative texts may be more appropriate for schools.

Tell the truth: you think there is no age your precious darling one should see this book.


I remember in 1970s sneaking looks at "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex" when I was 12 os so and babysitting. So glad I did. What they taught us in school was incredibly lacking.

Reading that book kept me from engaging in sex until I was out of college.

Knowledge is power. I was actually in Salvation Army one time when I overheard an elderly woman tell her friend she got pregnant in middle school because she had no idea what sex was and no idea what was happening.

Can you address the content pp found inappropriate? Why are you ignoring that component?

DP in the context of the book I think these scenes are not meant as titillating and pornographic. Just like Judy Blume, whose books have been challenged. Parents might feel uncomfortable with the idea of their kids reading some of her stories, but they are the sorts of issues that kids wonder and think about. The body is not a gross disgusting shameful thing. It’s so much healthier for kids to be comfortable with their bodies than ashamed of them.
And again, if you think these things are shameful and too adult for your 16 year old to know about, that’s your prerogative as a parent. You don’t get to dictate what other parents decide for theirs.

I read Judy Blume's "are you there, God?" She didnt talk about tasting her vaginal fluid or wanting c---- in her mouth.

Where is the line? Is there one?

Not one you should be drawing, that's for sure, Church Lady.

Most seniors in high school are 18 and ADULTS.

Except that this book is available to kids from ages 12-18. Nice try, though.
DP

Nope. Only to high schoolers the story says. Not middle school

Nope. Schools like Robinson and Lake Braddock serve both middle and high schoolers. They share a library.

That doesn't mean the middle schoolers are allowed to check out high school level books. Or do you not know how these things work?

Honestly, it's pretty clear you're the one who "doesn't know how these things work."

Nope. My kids were in a school where they were only allowed to check out the books for their grades or below. They could not check out books for higher grades, even though they read at that level. It was very strict, and a public school in the DC area. That's how these things work.

The book is not hidden behind a brown paper cover, like Playboys of yore, you dunce. If it's in the library, it's available for anyone to read. They may not be "allowed" to check it out, but they can certainly sit down and read it.

Do you think librarians don't monitor their libraries? Do you think high school kids have some class where they go and sit in the library and read? LOL

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry - a person wearing a dildo and another person giving them a blow job pretty much fits the definition of pornography. If you can’t admit that, there is just nothing more to say.

This has nothing to do with sex education.

Sex ed is not just about reproduction.

You’re right! For Republicans, sex ed is about girls pledging their virginity to their fathers and everyone praising Jesus and learning that birth control makes you get pregnant. Abstinence only for all!

Can’t believe I’m bothering to respond to a troll, but here we are. Sex ed is not about using dildos and giving blow jobs. That you think it is (or *should* be) speaks volumes about you and what you expose your kids to.

I distinctly recall someone asking the sex ed teacher to explain fellatio when I was a junior. Why do you want teenagers to be in the dark about such things? Are you repressed? Healthy sexuality means being able to discuss sex without embarrassment.

These are discussions for parents and children. Random teachers should not be talking to children about this. This is an issue of values, not education.

It wasn’t random, it was a sex-ed teacher and she answered matter of factly. It’s a fact of life that oral sex is a part of many human beings’ sex life. You want to cover your kids’s ears so they don’t discover what fellatio is in a respectful classroom setting, take them out of sex ed. they’ll probably end up as the wildest, most experimental ones because you’ve made it off-limits and mysterious.

Newsflash: you can be sexually normal while also knowing that there is a time and a place for sexual behavior and sexual content. Not knowing boundaries, and acting out sexually in public, is a sign of mental illness.

They were in a sex ed class and a student asked a perfectly legit question about sex.

And you think that means they are mentally ill.

I hope to God you don't have children.

There’s a difference between a teacher factually answering a question about oral sex and the images in this book being available on the school library shelves. I genuinely don’t understand why you don’t see a difference between those two scenarios. You seem to have no boundaries around sex and children. I know I’m not alone when I say I find that disturbing.

You said the teacher was wrong as well to be answering the question and the student was mentally ill for asking it.

We see through your "genuine concern."

I

Im the pp that made the mental illness comment. I certainly was not calling the child who asked abour oral sex mentally ill.

I am saying that the inability to discern any sexual boundaries at all, particularly with children, is often associated with mental illness. And certainly, anyone who flips through the passages of Gender Queer and thinks that graphic depictions of minors engaged in sex acts and dialogue like "Im going to give you the best blow-- of your life" and "I want you inside of me" and then puts it in the kids section of the library is either 1) depraved or 2) has a poor grip on reality.

Define "kids" -- what age group are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone on dcum know someone personally impacted by all of this crazy book banning?

I’d like to hear from someone who supports these bans to share a story of someone they know who was personally harmed by one of the books banned.

Interesting that no one could give specific example of this.

Why does someone have to be “personally harmed” for it to be wrong? Would you like *your* young children exposed to, say, a religion you don’t practice or political opinions you don’t agree with - while in school?? You’d be the first to be outraged about that. Such hypocrisy. Read all the sexual books you want with your kids. Leave mine out of it.

We’re talking about high school. Do you think high schoolers have to be sheltered fromm”sexual content” in the form of a comic book?

I have no problem with my teenagers reading this book.

I have no problem with children learning about different religions at any age. What a weird fear.

NP. Yes, I want my high schooler to be sheltered from sexual content. That's a parenting decision. You can make a different parenting decision. We can both have what we want by not placing highly sexual content in schools.

Do I also get to take things out of schools I find objectionable? I find the pledge of allegiance objectionable on several levels. Can I have it removed so that not just my but all kids are not exposed to it? Do you agree that’s my right as a parent?

The Pledge of Allegiance? Why is that objectionable to you?

Because it’s indoctrination. On a superficial level I don’t believe kids should feel pressure to mention god in schools. And I think mindless chants like this are at best silly and at worst too like the indoctrination that took place in authoritarian regimes of the 20th century, both fascist and communist.

Also do you not know any Jehovah’s Witnesses? If your school had a number of families of that faith you ok with them petitioning to get rid of the pledge?

DP. So you consider the Pledge of Allegiance “mindless indoctrination,” but you’re a-ok with books that depict graphic sex acts in our public school libraries. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

No one is making kids read those books and they are certainly not reading them aloud in the classroom on a daily basis.
Are you that bad at arguing your point? Apparently so.

We have so many kids in this country who are unsupervised and accessing all kinds of violent and sexually explicit materials in their homes. Public schools do not need to be making such materials easily available.

Guess what, they're not! The book in question is nowhere near what you seem to be describing.

I bet you want to ban Toni Morrison, too, don't you.

How about we ban the Bible? Talk about explicit! Rapes, murder, teenagers being impregnated by god, descriptions of genitals. I'd like to ban that in every school. Agree?

I think you know kids aren't checking out the Bible at school.

I thought the point was to ban things conservatives fine objectionable like violent and sexual material, not whether it’s popular or not. There’s no consistency.

First of all, i work in public schools evaluatiing kids. If there is a Bible in the middle or high school media centers in my school system, you'd have to look hard to find them. I would have no objection to Toni Morrison's books in a senior high school. I stand by my previous comments that I do not think any sexually explicit materials should be in an elementary or middle school.

Where has Gender Queer been in an elementary school library? Or even middle schools?

If it were, that would be a problem right?

Definitely

Okay, here is discussion of the book in a grade 6-12 school library.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2022/07/28/gender-queer-book-faces-parent-challenge-in-jcps/65384393007/

Wait. Grades 9-12 are high school. Are you saying a school that has grades 6-12 should only have books in their library that are appropriate for grades 6-8? Is that what you are suggesting? That high schoolers in such a situation should still be stuck reading middle-school level books??? WTH.

When my kids were younger, they could only check out books that were in their age categories. Pretty sure this is typical. It's an easy remedy.

I'm saying this is an example of Gender Queer being in a library in a 6-8 setting, since an example was requested.

You are being so obviously silly, I'm not going to address your questions. Being against pornography in schools is clearly not the same as being against advanced level literature being in schools. This is why no one takes you people and your strawmen seriously.

Except if you read the story you will the the quote that says middle schoolers can't check it out.

Ok, lets go with that, that no middle schools in America have this book. Im still trying to understand to understand the left's position that this book is age appropriate. While I grant that the book has some educational and mind expanding concepts, it has passages that are far too mature for school children up to grade 12. Specifically, I'm disturbed by the scene of tqo sisters sitting together, legs draped over each other, while one sister encourages the other to taste her vaginal fluid. I'm also concerned about the scene with the dildo and the dialogue including "I want your c--- in my mouth" and "I'm going to give you the bl----- of your life". I think alternative texts may be more appropriate for schools.

Tell the truth: you think there is no age your precious darling one should see this book.


I remember in 1970s sneaking looks at "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex" when I was 12 os so and babysitting. So glad I did. What they taught us in school was incredibly lacking.

Reading that book kept me from engaging in sex until I was out of college.

Knowledge is power. I was actually in Salvation Army one time when I overheard an elderly woman tell her friend she got pregnant in middle school because she had no idea what sex was and no idea what was happening.

Can you address the content pp found inappropriate? Why are you ignoring that component?

DP in the context of the book I think these scenes are not meant as titillating and pornographic. Just like Judy Blume, whose books have been challenged. Parents might feel uncomfortable with the idea of their kids reading some of her stories, but they are the sorts of issues that kids wonder and think about. The body is not a gross disgusting shameful thing. It’s so much healthier for kids to be comfortable with their bodies than ashamed of them.
And again, if you think these things are shameful and too adult for your 16 year old to know about, that’s your prerogative as a parent. You don’t get to dictate what other parents decide for theirs.

I read Judy Blume's "are you there, God?" She didnt talk about tasting her vaginal fluid or wanting c---- in her mouth.

Where is the line? Is there one?

Not one you should be drawing, that's for sure, Church Lady.

Most seniors in high school are 18 and ADULTS.

Except that this book is available to kids from ages 12-18. Nice try, though.
DP

Nope. Only to high schoolers the story says. Not middle school

Nope. Schools like Robinson and Lake Braddock serve both middle and high schoolers. They share a library.

That doesn't mean the middle schoolers are allowed to check out high school level books. Or do you not know how these things work?

Honestly, it's pretty clear you're the one who "doesn't know how these things work."

Nope. My kids were in a school where they were only allowed to check out the books for their grades or below. They could not check out books for higher grades, even though they read at that level. It was very strict, and a public school in the DC area. That's how these things work.

The book is not hidden behind a brown paper cover, like Playboys of yore, you dunce. If it's in the library, it's available for anyone to read. They may not be "allowed" to check it out, but they can certainly sit down and read it.

Do you think librarians don't monitor their libraries? Do you think high school kids have some class where they go and sit in the library and read? LOL

Um... yes and yes!! Too funny. It's almost as if you don't have kids at all. Both my kids had free periods which they spent in the library, working on homework or READING. The librarians aren't monitoring what they read. That would be *gasp* censorship!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone on dcum know someone personally impacted by all of this crazy book banning?

I’d like to hear from someone who supports these bans to share a story of someone they know who was personally harmed by one of the books banned.

Interesting that no one could give specific example of this.

Why does someone have to be “personally harmed” for it to be wrong? Would you like *your* young children exposed to, say, a religion you don’t practice or political opinions you don’t agree with - while in school?? You’d be the first to be outraged about that. Such hypocrisy. Read all the sexual books you want with your kids. Leave mine out of it.

We’re talking about high school. Do you think high schoolers have to be sheltered fromm”sexual content” in the form of a comic book?

I have no problem with my teenagers reading this book.

I have no problem with children learning about different religions at any age. What a weird fear.

NP. Yes, I want my high schooler to be sheltered from sexual content. That's a parenting decision. You can make a different parenting decision. We can both have what we want by not placing highly sexual content in schools.

Do I also get to take things out of schools I find objectionable? I find the pledge of allegiance objectionable on several levels. Can I have it removed so that not just my but all kids are not exposed to it? Do you agree that’s my right as a parent?

The Pledge of Allegiance? Why is that objectionable to you?

Because it’s indoctrination. On a superficial level I don’t believe kids should feel pressure to mention god in schools. And I think mindless chants like this are at best silly and at worst too like the indoctrination that took place in authoritarian regimes of the 20th century, both fascist and communist.

Also do you not know any Jehovah’s Witnesses? If your school had a number of families of that faith you ok with them petitioning to get rid of the pledge?

DP. So you consider the Pledge of Allegiance “mindless indoctrination,” but you’re a-ok with books that depict graphic sex acts in our public school libraries. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

No one is making kids read those books and they are certainly not reading them aloud in the classroom on a daily basis.
Are you that bad at arguing your point? Apparently so.

We have so many kids in this country who are unsupervised and accessing all kinds of violent and sexually explicit materials in their homes. Public schools do not need to be making such materials easily available.

Guess what, they're not! The book in question is nowhere near what you seem to be describing.

I bet you want to ban Toni Morrison, too, don't you.

How about we ban the Bible? Talk about explicit! Rapes, murder, teenagers being impregnated by god, descriptions of genitals. I'd like to ban that in every school. Agree?

I think you know kids aren't checking out the Bible at school.

I thought the point was to ban things conservatives fine objectionable like violent and sexual material, not whether it’s popular or not. There’s no consistency.

First of all, i work in public schools evaluatiing kids. If there is a Bible in the middle or high school media centers in my school system, you'd have to look hard to find them. I would have no objection to Toni Morrison's books in a senior high school. I stand by my previous comments that I do not think any sexually explicit materials should be in an elementary or middle school.

Where has Gender Queer been in an elementary school library? Or even middle schools?

If it were, that would be a problem right?

Definitely

Okay, here is discussion of the book in a grade 6-12 school library.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2022/07/28/gender-queer-book-faces-parent-challenge-in-jcps/65384393007/

Wait. Grades 9-12 are high school. Are you saying a school that has grades 6-12 should only have books in their library that are appropriate for grades 6-8? Is that what you are suggesting? That high schoolers in such a situation should still be stuck reading middle-school level books??? WTH.

When my kids were younger, they could only check out books that were in their age categories. Pretty sure this is typical. It's an easy remedy.

I'm saying this is an example of Gender Queer being in a library in a 6-8 setting, since an example was requested.

You are being so obviously silly, I'm not going to address your questions. Being against pornography in schools is clearly not the same as being against advanced level literature being in schools. This is why no one takes you people and your strawmen seriously.

Except if you read the story you will the the quote that says middle schoolers can't check it out.

Ok, lets go with that, that no middle schools in America have this book. Im still trying to understand to understand the left's position that this book is age appropriate. While I grant that the book has some educational and mind expanding concepts, it has passages that are far too mature for school children up to grade 12. Specifically, I'm disturbed by the scene of tqo sisters sitting together, legs draped over each other, while one sister encourages the other to taste her vaginal fluid. I'm also concerned about the scene with the dildo and the dialogue including "I want your c--- in my mouth" and "I'm going to give you the bl----- of your life". I think alternative texts may be more appropriate for schools.

Tell the truth: you think there is no age your precious darling one should see this book.


I remember in 1970s sneaking looks at "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex" when I was 12 os so and babysitting. So glad I did. What they taught us in school was incredibly lacking.

Reading that book kept me from engaging in sex until I was out of college.

Knowledge is power. I was actually in Salvation Army one time when I overheard an elderly woman tell her friend she got pregnant in middle school because she had no idea what sex was and no idea what was happening.

Can you address the content pp found inappropriate? Why are you ignoring that component?

DP in the context of the book I think these scenes are not meant as titillating and pornographic. Just like Judy Blume, whose books have been challenged. Parents might feel uncomfortable with the idea of their kids reading some of her stories, but they are the sorts of issues that kids wonder and think about. The body is not a gross disgusting shameful thing. It’s so much healthier for kids to be comfortable with their bodies than ashamed of them.
And again, if you think these things are shameful and too adult for your 16 year old to know about, that’s your prerogative as a parent. You don’t get to dictate what other parents decide for theirs.

I read Judy Blume's "are you there, God?" She didnt talk about tasting her vaginal fluid or wanting c---- in her mouth.

Where is the line? Is there one?

Not one you should be drawing, that's for sure, Church Lady.

Most seniors in high school are 18 and ADULTS.

Except that this book is available to kids from ages 12-18. Nice try, though.
DP

Nope. Only to high schoolers the story says. Not middle school

Nope. Schools like Robinson and Lake Braddock serve both middle and high schoolers. They share a library.

That doesn't mean the middle schoolers are allowed to check out high school level books. Or do you not know how these things work?

Honestly, it's pretty clear you're the one who "doesn't know how these things work."

Nope. My kids were in a school where they were only allowed to check out the books for their grades or below. They could not check out books for higher grades, even though they read at that level. It was very strict, and a public school in the DC area. That's how these things work.

The book is not hidden behind a brown paper cover, like Playboys of yore, you dunce. If it's in the library, it's available for anyone to read. They may not be "allowed" to check it out, but they can certainly sit down and read it.

Do you think librarians don't monitor their libraries? Do you think high school kids have some class where they go and sit in the library and read? LOL

Um... yes and yes!! Too funny. It's almost as if you don't have kids at all. Both my kids had free periods which they spent in the library, working on homework or READING. The librarians aren't monitoring what they read. That would be *gasp* censorship!

My kids' librarians DID monitor them when in elementary and middle school.

In high school my kids did not spend much time in the library at all. Most high schoolers don't. Methinks this is so much ado about nothing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sorry - a person wearing a dildo and another person giving them a blow job pretty much fits the definition of pornography. If you can’t admit that, there is just nothing more to say.

This has nothing to do with sex education.

Sex ed is not just about reproduction.

You’re right! For Republicans, sex ed is about girls pledging their virginity to their fathers and everyone praising Jesus and learning that birth control makes you get pregnant. Abstinence only for all!

Can’t believe I’m bothering to respond to a troll, but here we are. Sex ed is not about using dildos and giving blow jobs. That you think it is (or *should* be) speaks volumes about you and what you expose your kids to.

I distinctly recall someone asking the sex ed teacher to explain fellatio when I was a junior. Why do you want teenagers to be in the dark about such things? Are you repressed? Healthy sexuality means being able to discuss sex without embarrassment.

These are discussions for parents and children. Random teachers should not be talking to children about this. This is an issue of values, not education.

It wasn’t random, it was a sex-ed teacher and she answered matter of factly. It’s a fact of life that oral sex is a part of many human beings’ sex life. You want to cover your kids’s ears so they don’t discover what fellatio is in a respectful classroom setting, take them out of sex ed. they’ll probably end up as the wildest, most experimental ones because you’ve made it off-limits and mysterious.

Newsflash: you can be sexually normal while also knowing that there is a time and a place for sexual behavior and sexual content. Not knowing boundaries, and acting out sexually in public, is a sign of mental illness.

They were in a sex ed class and a student asked a perfectly legit question about sex.

And you think that means they are mentally ill.

I hope to God you don't have children.

There’s a difference between a teacher factually answering a question about oral sex and the images in this book being available on the school library shelves. I genuinely don’t understand why you don’t see a difference between those two scenarios. You seem to have no boundaries around sex and children. I know I’m not alone when I say I find that disturbing.

You said the teacher was wrong as well to be answering the question and the student was mentally ill for asking it.

We see through your "genuine concern."

I

Im the pp that made the mental illness comment. I certainly was not calling the child who asked abour oral sex mentally ill.

I am saying that the inability to discern any sexual boundaries at all, particularly with children, is often associated with mental illness. And certainly, anyone who flips through the passages of Gender Queer and thinks that graphic depictions of minors engaged in sex acts and dialogue like "Im going to give you the best blow-- of your life" and "I want you inside of me" and then puts it in the kids section of the library is either 1) depraved or 2) has a poor grip on reality.

Define "kids" -- what age group are you talking about?

Grades k-12. Kids in grades K-12 should not find hentai in their school library. I'll also be as bold as to say that sex ed should not feature pornographic videos. There are lines. You may want children to have unbounded, tax supported access to erotica, but most parents dont, and we live in a democracy. If the "no porn in schools" stance oppresses you, find a private school with libertine values.

[Anonymous]

I mean seriously. High school kids read so little. We should be happy they read anything!

Doubt many high school students even want to read this comic book.

But if they do, what do the nay-sayers fear will happen?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sorry - a person wearing a dildo and another person giving them a blow job pretty much fits the definition of pornography. If you can’t admit that, there is just nothing more to say.

This has nothing to do with sex education.

Sex ed is not just about reproduction.

You’re right! For Republicans, sex ed is about girls pledging their virginity to their fathers and everyone praising Jesus and learning that birth control makes you get pregnant. Abstinence only for all!

Can’t believe I’m bothering to respond to a troll, but here we are. Sex ed is not about using dildos and giving blow jobs. That you think it is (or *should* be) speaks volumes about you and what you expose your kids to.

I distinctly recall someone asking the sex ed teacher to explain fellatio when I was a junior. Why do you want teenagers to be in the dark about such things? Are you repressed? Healthy sexuality means being able to discuss sex without embarrassment.

These are discussions for parents and children. Random teachers should not be talking to children about this. This is an issue of values, not education.

It wasn’t random, it was a sex-ed teacher and she answered matter of factly. It’s a fact of life that oral sex is a part of many human beings’ sex life. You want to cover your kids’s ears so they don’t discover what fellatio is in a respectful classroom setting, take them out of sex ed. they’ll probably end up as the wildest, most experimental ones because you’ve made it off-limits and mysterious.

Newsflash: you can be sexually normal while also knowing that there is a time and a place for sexual behavior and sexual content. Not knowing boundaries, and acting out sexually in public, is a sign of mental illness.

They were in a sex ed class and a student asked a perfectly legit question about sex.

And you think that means they are mentally ill.

I hope to God you don't have children.

There’s a difference between a teacher factually answering a question about oral sex and the images in this book being available on the school library shelves. I genuinely don’t understand why you don’t see a difference between those two scenarios. You seem to have no boundaries around sex and children. I know I’m not alone when I say I find that disturbing.

You said the teacher was wrong as well to be answering the question and the student was mentally ill for asking it.

We see through your "genuine concern."

I

Im the pp that made the mental illness comment. I certainly was not calling the child who asked abour oral sex mentally ill.

I am saying that the inability to discern any sexual boundaries at all, particularly with children, is often associated with mental illness. And certainly, anyone who flips through the passages of Gender Queer and thinks that graphic depictions of minors engaged in sex acts and dialogue like "Im going to give you the best blow-- of your life" and "I want you inside of me" and then puts it in the kids section of the library is either 1) depraved or 2) has a poor grip on reality.

Define "kids" -- what age group are you talking about?

Grades k-12. Kids in grades K-12 should not find hentai in their school library. I'll also be as bold as to say that sex ed should not feature pornographic videos. There are lines. You may want children to have unbounded, tax supported access to erotica, but most parents dont, and we live in a democracy. If the "no porn in schools" stance oppresses you, find a private school with libertine values.

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone on dcum know someone personally impacted by all of this crazy book banning?

I’d like to hear from someone who supports these bans to share a story of someone they know who was personally harmed by one of the books banned.

Interesting that no one could give specific example of this.

Why does someone have to be “personally harmed” for it to be wrong? Would you like *your* young children exposed to, say, a religion you don’t practice or political opinions you don’t agree with - while in school?? You’d be the first to be outraged about that. Such hypocrisy. Read all the sexual books you want with your kids. Leave mine out of it.

We’re talking about high school. Do you think high schoolers have to be sheltered fromm”sexual content” in the form of a comic book?

I have no problem with my teenagers reading this book.

I have no problem with children learning about different religions at any age. What a weird fear.

NP. Yes, I want my high schooler to be sheltered from sexual content. That's a parenting decision. You can make a different parenting decision. We can both have what we want by not placing highly sexual content in schools.

Do I also get to take things out of schools I find objectionable? I find the pledge of allegiance objectionable on several levels. Can I have it removed so that not just my but all kids are not exposed to it? Do you agree that’s my right as a parent?

The Pledge of Allegiance? Why is that objectionable to you?

Because it’s indoctrination. On a superficial level I don’t believe kids should feel pressure to mention god in schools. And I think mindless chants like this are at best silly and at worst too like the indoctrination that took place in authoritarian regimes of the 20th century, both fascist and communist.

Also do you not know any Jehovah’s Witnesses? If your school had a number of families of that faith you ok with them petitioning to get rid of the pledge?

DP. So you consider the Pledge of Allegiance “mindless indoctrination,” but you’re a-ok with books that depict graphic sex acts in our public school libraries. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

No one is making kids read those books and they are certainly not reading them aloud in the classroom on a daily basis.
Are you that bad at arguing your point? Apparently so.

We have so many kids in this country who are unsupervised and accessing all kinds of violent and sexually explicit materials in their homes. Public schools do not need to be making such materials easily available.

Guess what, they're not! The book in question is nowhere near what you seem to be describing.

I bet you want to ban Toni Morrison, too, don't you.

How about we ban the Bible? Talk about explicit! Rapes, murder, teenagers being impregnated by god, descriptions of genitals. I'd like to ban that in every school. Agree?

I think you know kids aren't checking out the Bible at school.

I thought the point was to ban things conservatives fine objectionable like violent and sexual material, not whether it’s popular or not. There’s no consistency.

First of all, i work in public schools evaluatiing kids. If there is a Bible in the middle or high school media centers in my school system, you'd have to look hard to find them. I would have no objection to Toni Morrison's books in a senior high school. I stand by my previous comments that I do not think any sexually explicit materials should be in an elementary or middle school.

Where has Gender Queer been in an elementary school library? Or even middle schools?

If it were, that would be a problem right?

Definitely

Okay, here is discussion of the book in a grade 6-12 school library.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2022/07/28/gender-queer-book-faces-parent-challenge-in-jcps/65384393007/

Wait. Grades 9-12 are high school. Are you saying a school that has grades 6-12 should only have books in their library that are appropriate for grades 6-8? Is that what you are suggesting? That high schoolers in such a situation should still be stuck reading middle-school level books??? WTH.

When my kids were younger, they could only check out books that were in their age categories. Pretty sure this is typical. It's an easy remedy.

I'm saying this is an example of Gender Queer being in a library in a 6-8 setting, since an example was requested.

You are being so obviously silly, I'm not going to address your questions. Being against pornography in schools is clearly not the same as being against advanced level literature being in schools. This is why no one takes you people and your strawmen seriously.

Except if you read the story you will the the quote that says middle schoolers can't check it out.

Ok, lets go with that, that no middle schools in America have this book. Im still trying to understand to understand the left's position that this book is age appropriate. While I grant that the book has some educational and mind expanding concepts, it has passages that are far too mature for school children up to grade 12. Specifically, I'm disturbed by the scene of tqo sisters sitting together, legs draped over each other, while one sister encourages the other to taste her vaginal fluid. I'm also concerned about the scene with the dildo and the dialogue including "I want your c--- in my mouth" and "I'm going to give you the bl----- of your life". I think alternative texts may be more appropriate for schools.

Tell the truth: you think there is no age your precious darling one should see this book.


I remember in 1970s sneaking looks at "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex" when I was 12 os so and babysitting. So glad I did. What they taught us in school was incredibly lacking.

Reading that book kept me from engaging in sex until I was out of college.

Knowledge is power. I was actually in Salvation Army one time when I overheard an elderly woman tell her friend she got pregnant in middle school because she had no idea what sex was and no idea what was happening.

Can you address the content pp found inappropriate? Why are you ignoring that component?

DP in the context of the book I think these scenes are not meant as titillating and pornographic. Just like Judy Blume, whose books have been challenged. Parents might feel uncomfortable with the idea of their kids reading some of her stories, but they are the sorts of issues that kids wonder and think about. The body is not a gross disgusting shameful thing. It’s so much healthier for kids to be comfortable with their bodies than ashamed of them.
And again, if you think these things are shameful and too adult for your 16 year old to know about, that’s your prerogative as a parent. You don’t get to dictate what other parents decide for theirs.

I read Judy Blume's "are you there, God?" She didnt talk about tasting her vaginal fluid or wanting c---- in her mouth.

Where is the line? Is there one?

Do you think vaginal fluid is shameful? I get that you find that scene icky. But some kids might be curious. What would you do if your DD was curious about it? Would you even be able to hsve a conversation with her?

Do you object to children’s books about poop? Because ick, right?

I dont think it is normal for families to have discussions about tasting vaginal fluid. There are a range of topics that are atypical in any setting, much less as a fireside chat with the family. If this is something that is normal to you, I sincerely wish you peace and healing.

You’ve got quite the imagination there.

That’s literally a scene from the book. One that many find objectionable.

So don't read it.

But don't you dare try to censor the rest of us.

Are you afraid of literature that promotes other idealogies? Where do you draw the line? You agree Mark Twain and add. Seuss should be pulled from the shelves? Mein Kampf? KKK? Are you really anti-censorship for teens?

I am not following your post.

It was a response to the pp who said don’t you dare censor the rest of us [who want books like GenderQueer in schools]. The question is does that PP really want censorship removed? Mark Twain Dr. Seuss, Laura Invalls,etc are being/have been banned, is that OK? Is banning Mein Kampf Ok? Banning books portraying KKK as the good guys OK?

Really? Mein Kampf is banned in school libraries? Wow. I would have thought every school library should have a copy. It is an important book for high school kids who are learning about political philosophies to have access to. Why on earth would it be banned?

Mark Twain is pulled from the shelves? I would be against that. BTW, that is completely different than a discussion about whether Huck Finn should be part of the curriculum or whether Twain's book should be part of a library display. But banned and removed from the shelves? I believe you if you say its happening but its disgusting.

What is this book about the KKK portrayed as good guys? If the book were removed from circulation because the book was "cancelled" and nobody wanted to read it anymore, so be it. But again, if it was banned because some snowflake parent decided that they didn't want it anywhere near their precious? That is seriously messed up.

So I guess I dont believe in censoring books for high school kids. Regardless of content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean seriously. High school kids read so little. We should be happy they read anything!

Doubt many high school students even want to read this comic book.

But if they do, what do the nay-sayers fear will happen?

One example of what we fear: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7147756/

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone on dcum know someone personally impacted by all of this crazy book banning?

I’d like to hear from someone who supports these bans to share a story of someone they know who was personally harmed by one of the books banned.

Interesting that no one could give specific example of this.

Why does someone have to be “personally harmed” for it to be wrong? Would you like *your* young children exposed to, say, a religion you don’t practice or political opinions you don’t agree with - while in school?? You’d be the first to be outraged about that. Such hypocrisy. Read all the sexual books you want with your kids. Leave mine out of it.

We’re talking about high school. Do you think high schoolers have to be sheltered fromm”sexual content” in the form of a comic book?

I have no problem with my teenagers reading this book.

I have no problem with children learning about different religions at any age. What a weird fear.

NP. Yes, I want my high schooler to be sheltered from sexual content. That's a parenting decision. You can make a different parenting decision. We can both have what we want by not placing highly sexual content in schools.

Do I also get to take things out of schools I find objectionable? I find the pledge of allegiance objectionable on several levels. Can I have it removed so that not just my but all kids are not exposed to it? Do you agree that’s my right as a parent?

The Pledge of Allegiance? Why is that objectionable to you?

Because it’s indoctrination. On a superficial level I don’t believe kids should feel pressure to mention god in schools. And I think mindless chants like this are at best silly and at worst too like the indoctrination that took place in authoritarian regimes of the 20th century, both fascist and communist.

Also do you not know any Jehovah’s Witnesses? If your school had a number of families of that faith you ok with them petitioning to get rid of the pledge?

DP. So you consider the Pledge of Allegiance “mindless indoctrination,” but you’re a-ok with books that depict graphic sex acts in our public school libraries. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

No one is making kids read those books and they are certainly not reading them aloud in the classroom on a daily basis.
Are you that bad at arguing your point? Apparently so.

We have so many kids in this country who are unsupervised and accessing all kinds of violent and sexually explicit materials in their homes. Public schools do not need to be making such materials easily available.

Guess what, they're not! The book in question is nowhere near what you seem to be describing.

I bet you want to ban Toni Morrison, too, don't you.

How about we ban the Bible? Talk about explicit! Rapes, murder, teenagers being impregnated by god, descriptions of genitals. I'd like to ban that in every school. Agree?

I think you know kids aren't checking out the Bible at school.

I thought the point was to ban things conservatives fine objectionable like violent and sexual material, not whether it’s popular or not. There’s no consistency.

First of all, i work in public schools evaluatiing kids. If there is a Bible in the middle or high school media centers in my school system, you'd have to look hard to find them. I would have no objection to Toni Morrison's books in a senior high school. I stand by my previous comments that I do not think any sexually explicit materials should be in an elementary or middle school.

Where has Gender Queer been in an elementary school library? Or even middle schools?

If it were, that would be a problem right?

Definitely

Okay, here is discussion of the book in a grade 6-12 school library.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2022/07/28/gender-queer-book-faces-parent-challenge-in-jcps/65384393007/

Wait. Grades 9-12 are high school. Are you saying a school that has grades 6-12 should only have books in their library that are appropriate for grades 6-8? Is that what you are suggesting? That high schoolers in such a situation should still be stuck reading middle-school level books??? WTH.

When my kids were younger, they could only check out books that were in their age categories. Pretty sure this is typical. It's an easy remedy.

I'm saying this is an example of Gender Queer being in a library in a 6-8 setting, since an example was requested.

You are being so obviously silly, I'm not going to address your questions. Being against pornography in schools is clearly not the same as being against advanced level literature being in schools. This is why no one takes you people and your strawmen seriously.

Except if you read the story you will the the quote that says middle schoolers can't check it out.

Ok, lets go with that, that no middle schools in America have this book. Im still trying to understand to understand the left's position that this book is age appropriate. While I grant that the book has some educational and mind expanding concepts, it has passages that are far too mature for school children up to grade 12. Specifically, I'm disturbed by the scene of tqo sisters sitting together, legs draped over each other, while one sister encourages the other to taste her vaginal fluid. I'm also concerned about the scene with the dildo and the dialogue including "I want your c--- in my mouth" and "I'm going to give you the bl----- of your life". I think alternative texts may be more appropriate for schools.

Tell the truth: you think there is no age your precious darling one should see this book.


I remember in 1970s sneaking looks at "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex" when I was 12 os so and babysitting. So glad I did. What they taught us in school was incredibly lacking.

Reading that book kept me from engaging in sex until I was out of college.

Knowledge is power. I was actually in Salvation Army one time when I overheard an elderly woman tell her friend she got pregnant in middle school because she had no idea what sex was and no idea what was happening.

Can you address the content pp found inappropriate? Why are you ignoring that component?

DP in the context of the book I think these scenes are not meant as titillating and pornographic. Just like Judy Blume, whose books have been challenged. Parents might feel uncomfortable with the idea of their kids reading some of her stories, but they are the sorts of issues that kids wonder and think about. The body is not a gross disgusting shameful thing. It’s so much healthier for kids to be comfortable with their bodies than ashamed of them.
And again, if you think these things are shameful and too adult for your 16 year old to know about, that’s your prerogative as a parent. You don’t get to dictate what other parents decide for theirs.

I read Judy Blume's "are you there, God?" She didnt talk about tasting her vaginal fluid or wanting c---- in her mouth.

Where is the line? Is there one?

Do you think vaginal fluid is shameful? I get that you find that scene icky. But some kids might be curious. What would you do if your DD was curious about it? Would you even be able to hsve a conversation with her?

Do you object to children’s books about poop? Because ick, right?

I dont think it is normal for families to have discussions about tasting vaginal fluid. There are a range of topics that are atypical in any setting, much less as a fireside chat with the family. If this is something that is normal to you, I sincerely wish you peace and healing.

You’ve got quite the imagination there.

That’s literally a scene from the book. One that many find objectionable.

So don't read it.

But don't you dare try to censor the rest of us.

Are you afraid of literature that promotes other idealogies? Where do you draw the line? You agree Mark Twain and add. Seuss should be pulled from the shelves? Mein Kampf? KKK? Are you really anti-censorship for teens?

I am not following your post.

It was a response to the pp who said don’t you dare censor the rest of us [who want books like GenderQueer in schools]. The question is does that PP really want censorship removed? Mark Twain Dr. Seuss, Laura Invalls,etc are being/have been banned, is that OK? Is banning Mein Kampf Ok? Banning books portraying KKK as the good guys OK?

Really? Mein Kampf is banned in school libraries? Wow. I would have thought every school library should have a copy. It is an important book for high school kids who are learning about political philosophies to have access to. Why on earth would it be banned?

Mark Twain is pulled from the shelves? I would be against that. BTW, that is completely different than a discussion about whether Huck Finn should be part of the curriculum or whether Twain's book should be part of a library display. But banned and removed from the shelves? I believe you if you say its happening but its disgusting.

What is this book about the KKK portrayed as good guys? If the book were removed from circulation because the book was "cancelled" and nobody wanted to read it anymore, so be it. But again, if it was banned because some snowflake parent decided that they didn't want it anywhere near their precious? That is seriously messed up.

So I guess I dont believe in censoring books for high school kids. Regardless of content.

What about on Twitter tho?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean seriously. High school kids read so little. We should be happy they read anything!

Doubt many high school students even want to read this comic book.

But if they do, what do the nay-sayers fear will happen?

One example of what we fear: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7147756/

Oh sweet summer child. This comic book that deals with teens grappling of sexuality and identity is not going to fall under that study's definition of sexually explicit media. It just won't. Did you even read the descriptions of what content they were considering as sexually explicit media?

You know what is more disturbing than a memoir? The messages about sexuality that teens get from advertisement. But I bet you don't get yourself all worked up over that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone on dcum know someone personally impacted by all of this crazy book banning?

I’d like to hear from someone who supports these bans to share a story of someone they know who was personally harmed by one of the books banned.

Interesting that no one could give specific example of this.

Why does someone have to be “personally harmed” for it to be wrong? Would you like *your* young children exposed to, say, a religion you don’t practice or political opinions you don’t agree with - while in school?? You’d be the first to be outraged about that. Such hypocrisy. Read all the sexual books you want with your kids. Leave mine out of it.

We’re talking about high school. Do you think high schoolers have to be sheltered fromm”sexual content” in the form of a comic book?

I have no problem with my teenagers reading this book.

I have no problem with children learning about different religions at any age. What a weird fear.

NP. Yes, I want my high schooler to be sheltered from sexual content. That's a parenting decision. You can make a different parenting decision. We can both have what we want by not placing highly sexual content in schools.

Do I also get to take things out of schools I find objectionable? I find the pledge of allegiance objectionable on several levels. Can I have it removed so that not just my but all kids are not exposed to it? Do you agree that’s my right as a parent?

The Pledge of Allegiance? Why is that objectionable to you?

Because it’s indoctrination. On a superficial level I don’t believe kids should feel pressure to mention god in schools. And I think mindless chants like this are at best silly and at worst too like the indoctrination that took place in authoritarian regimes of the 20th century, both fascist and communist.

Also do you not know any Jehovah’s Witnesses? If your school had a number of families of that faith you ok with them petitioning to get rid of the pledge?

DP. So you consider the Pledge of Allegiance “mindless indoctrination,” but you’re a-ok with books that depict graphic sex acts in our public school libraries. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

No one is making kids read those books and they are certainly not reading them aloud in the classroom on a daily basis.
Are you that bad at arguing your point? Apparently so.

We have so many kids in this country who are unsupervised and accessing all kinds of violent and sexually explicit materials in their homes. Public schools do not need to be making such materials easily available.

Guess what, they're not! The book in question is nowhere near what you seem to be describing.

I bet you want to ban Toni Morrison, too, don't you.

How about we ban the Bible? Talk about explicit! Rapes, murder, teenagers being impregnated by god, descriptions of genitals. I'd like to ban that in every school. Agree?

I think you know kids aren't checking out the Bible at school.

I thought the point was to ban things conservatives fine objectionable like violent and sexual material, not whether it’s popular or not. There’s no consistency.

First of all, i work in public schools evaluatiing kids. If there is a Bible in the middle or high school media centers in my school system, you'd have to look hard to find them. I would have no objection to Toni Morrison's books in a senior high school. I stand by my previous comments that I do not think any sexually explicit materials should be in an elementary or middle school.

Where has Gender Queer been in an elementary school library? Or even middle schools?

If it were, that would be a problem right?

Definitely

Okay, here is discussion of the book in a grade 6-12 school library.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2022/07/28/gender-queer-book-faces-parent-challenge-in-jcps/65384393007/

Wait. Grades 9-12 are high school. Are you saying a school that has grades 6-12 should only have books in their library that are appropriate for grades 6-8? Is that what you are suggesting? That high schoolers in such a situation should still be stuck reading middle-school level books??? WTH.

When my kids were younger, they could only check out books that were in their age categories. Pretty sure this is typical. It's an easy remedy.

I'm saying this is an example of Gender Queer being in a library in a 6-8 setting, since an example was requested.

You are being so obviously silly, I'm not going to address your questions. Being against pornography in schools is clearly not the same as being against advanced level literature being in schools. This is why no one takes you people and your strawmen seriously.

Except if you read the story you will the the quote that says middle schoolers can't check it out.

Ok, lets go with that, that no middle schools in America have this book. Im still trying to understand to understand the left's position that this book is age appropriate. While I grant that the book has some educational and mind expanding concepts, it has passages that are far too mature for school children up to grade 12. Specifically, I'm disturbed by the scene of tqo sisters sitting together, legs draped over each other, while one sister encourages the other to taste her vaginal fluid. I'm also concerned about the scene with the dildo and the dialogue including "I want your c--- in my mouth" and "I'm going to give you the bl----- of your life". I think alternative texts may be more appropriate for schools.

Tell the truth: you think there is no age your precious darling one should see this book.


I remember in 1970s sneaking looks at "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex" when I was 12 os so and babysitting. So glad I did. What they taught us in school was incredibly lacking.

Reading that book kept me from engaging in sex until I was out of college.

Knowledge is power. I was actually in Salvation Army one time when I overheard an elderly woman tell her friend she got pregnant in middle school because she had no idea what sex was and no idea what was happening.

Can you address the content pp found inappropriate? Why are you ignoring that component?

DP in the context of the book I think these scenes are not meant as titillating and pornographic. Just like Judy Blume, whose books have been challenged. Parents might feel uncomfortable with the idea of their kids reading some of her stories, but they are the sorts of issues that kids wonder and think about. The body is not a gross disgusting shameful thing. It’s so much healthier for kids to be comfortable with their bodies than ashamed of them.
And again, if you think these things are shameful and too adult for your 16 year old to know about, that’s your prerogative as a parent. You don’t get to dictate what other parents decide for theirs.

I read Judy Blume's "are you there, God?" She didnt talk about tasting her vaginal fluid or wanting c---- in her mouth.

Where is the line? Is there one?

Do you think vaginal fluid is shameful? I get that you find that scene icky. But some kids might be curious. What would you do if your DD was curious about it? Would you even be able to hsve a conversation with her?

Do you object to children’s books about poop? Because ick, right?

I dont think it is normal for families to have discussions about tasting vaginal fluid. There are a range of topics that are atypical in any setting, much less as a fireside chat with the family. If this is something that is normal to you, I sincerely wish you peace and healing.

You’ve got quite the imagination there.

That’s literally a scene from the book. One that many find objectionable.

So don't read it.

But don't you dare try to censor the rest of us.

Are you afraid of literature that promotes other idealogies? Where do you draw the line? You agree Mark Twain and add. Seuss should be pulled from the shelves? Mein Kampf? KKK? Are you really anti-censorship for teens?

I am not following your post.

It was a response to the pp who said don’t you dare censor the rest of us [who want books like GenderQueer in schools]. The question is does that PP really want censorship removed? Mark Twain Dr. Seuss, Laura Invalls,etc are being/have been banned, is that OK? Is banning Mein Kampf Ok? Banning books portraying KKK as the good guys OK?

Really? Mein Kampf is banned in school libraries? Wow. I would have thought every school library should have a copy. It is an important book for high school kids who are learning about political philosophies to have access to. Why on earth would it be banned?

Mark Twain is pulled from the shelves? I would be against that. BTW, that is completely different than a discussion about whether Huck Finn should be part of the curriculum or whether Twain's book should be part of a library display. But banned and removed from the shelves? I believe you if you say its happening but its disgusting.

What is this book about the KKK portrayed as good guys? If the book were removed from circulation because the book was "cancelled" and nobody wanted to read it anymore, so be it. But again, if it was banned because some snowflake parent decided that they didn't want it anywhere near their precious? That is seriously messed up.

So I guess I dont believe in censoring books for high school kids. Regardless of content.

What about on Twitter tho?

Twitter is not a public school. It's a private business and can set its own rules. I thought people like you are pro-business and anti-regulation.

[Anonymous]

Here's a review of the book that has become the most banned in the US since it was published in 2019.


https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-09-25/gender-queer-most-banned-book