Should I tell my kid to fail?

[Anonymous]

MS DS is a strong student who has been getting straight As. We are proud of his effort and have told him that, but it has never been a point of emphasis for us. He has significant anxiety about grades (among many other things) and we care very much that he is so stressed that he won't continue to perform well. He has told us that he'll be viewed as "not smart" if he doesn't do well in school and has unfortunately viewed grades as the end all be all. We have a tutor because he has asked for help, particularly in advanced math (which the school suggested and he wanted to take). A therapist has suggested that we need to desensitize him and give DS permission/instruction/etc (not sure how we would word it to him) to tank a test so that he can see that it's not the end of the world. We know he will eventually get lower grades and want him to develop coping skills to handle disappointment. I suppose the question is how to you get a stressed out kid to chill about grades? Reassurance from us hasn't gotten us anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Does he see this therapist regularly about his anxieties in general? I'm thinking the therapist should tackle his anxiety issues overall, not just about grades. Then, the grade anxiety issue might resolve itself. Just my non professional opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does he see this therapist regularly about his anxieties in general? I'm thinking the therapist should tackle his anxiety issues overall, not just about grades. Then, the grade anxiety issue might resolve itself. Just my non professional opinion.

Op here and yes, it's one of many issues being worked on, so not just this in a vacuum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does he see this therapist regularly about his anxieties in general? I'm thinking the therapist should tackle his anxiety issues overall, not just about grades. Then, the grade anxiety issue might resolve itself. Just my non professional opinion.

Op here and yes, it's one of many issues being worked on, so not just this in a vacuum.

Then, I don't think you can tell him to "chill" about his grades if he's still working on his anxiety issues. As you stated, you can't address this one issue in a vacuum.

What does he say about why he is anxious about getting bad grades?

[Anonymous]

We have this problem in a slightly different context where our very good student can't get started. We just keep supporting him and letting him know that as long as puts in best effort, we don't care what the grade is - and also, it's better to be done, sometimes, than to be perfect.

[Anonymous]

You don't tell a kid to "fail." They need to know it's okay if they do.

However, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree in this case. OP, lower grades doesn't equate failure. Your kid has internalized the example that you've set: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-the-face-adversity/201103/catastrophic-thinking

Start thinking about re-setting your own mindset. Parent by example.

[Anonymous]

Which county are you in? My daughter had a total and complete melt down when she failed her first test. She kept calling me crying. I saw it coming and let it happen, but was second guessing that decision when I saw her get so upset. When she failed, I got some books and helped her practice. Within a couple of weeks, we had it mostly sorted out. If she starts to get anxious about failing a test, I remind her she can retake it. She's in a fairfax county middle school. Failing was the best thing to happen, even though it was tough to watch her go through it.

Do you know if retaking tests is an option at his school?

[Anonymous]

OP I think it's less permission to fail and more of a congratulations on recovering. Kids need resilience more than perfection. Has your child never failed or even been challenged? My DD did gymnastics and man was that a lesson on resilience. It did teach her how to regroup constantly, how to approach a challenge is multiple ways after failure, and a very strong sense of humility. I'm not a sports enthusiast in any way but, there are valuable lessons to be learned by trying something you just aren't cut out to do. My DD is now getting her a-- kicked at college in physics. Every other day is a lesson on regrouping and recovering. Today she failed a midterm and got an internship at a prestigious software company that created the position after she applied; just for her. You take the good with the bad. Start with discussions on how to recover from mistakes not how to mess up. And then see if he is willing to go out of his comfort zone and try something very different for the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't tell a kid to "fail." They need to know it's okay if they do.

However, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree in this case. OP, lower grades doesn't equate failure. Your kid has internalized the example that you've set: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-the-face-adversity/201103/catastrophic-thinking

Start thinking about re-setting your own mindset. Parent by example.

OP never said that lower grades equate to failure and actually said they don't care about the grades. Don't be so judgmental.

[Anonymous]

This is going to sound a little strange, but have you considered taking up a hobby together that you know you are going to be bad at? For my child it was really helpful to see me fail (repeatedly) and keep trying. We ended up having long talks about how nobody can be good at everything etc.

However, I would not recommend ice skating- the ice is really hard.

Currently, I am failing at playing the piano. I've found it is good for me to have a hobby where I will not be very good, but I can have fun and a sense of accomplishment when I persevere.

I had heard that DC is where valedictorians come to recover...

[Anonymous]

No. If he purposely fails, he won't get the lesson because it won't count.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is going to sound a little strange, but have you considered taking up a hobby together that you know you are going to be bad at? For my child it was really helpful to see me fail (repeatedly) and keep trying. We ended up having long talks about how nobody can be good at everything etc.

However, I would not recommend ice skating- the ice is really hard.

Currently, I am failing at playing the piano. I've found it is good for me to have a hobby where I will not be very good, but I can have fun and a sense of accomplishment when I persevere.

I had heard that DC is where valedictorians come to recover...

Omg yes, about seeing me fail. Nothing makes my son happier than seeing me be bad at something or talking about being bad at something.

Also, if you do not already, stop praising his grades. I have heard praise the effort, but even that might be too much for your kid ( might make him over prepare). I would praise him when he does relax. Or maybe just have him not turn in homework one time to show him that the world does not come to an end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is going to sound a little strange, but have you considered taking up a hobby together that you know you are going to be bad at? For my child it was really helpful to see me fail (repeatedly) and keep trying. We ended up having long talks about how nobody can be good at everything etc.

However, I would not recommend ice skating- the ice is really hard.

Currently, I am failing at playing the piano. I've found it is good for me to have a hobby where I will not be very good, but I can have fun and a sense of accomplishment when I persevere.

I had heard that DC is where valedictorians come to recover...

I'll second this suggestion. Had a similar situation with a son who is also a perfectionist with no patience. Along with underlying anxiety issues that we addressed (are still addressing with some success), he needed to completely bomb at something and learn that it wasn't the end of the world. In his case it was a music program audition. We talked about it beforehand and included a lot of ridiculous worst case scenarios (you are accidentally knocked unconscious with your instrument and they throw tomatoes, etc.) . It helped a lot.

[Anonymous]

OP, you're working with a therapist so I shouldn't try to second guess you but I was curious to note that the only two options seem to be either getting straight As or failing. That sounds like it plays into your son's mindset that those are the only two options out there - either the light (As) or the darkness (Fs). The reality is that if he didn't try his hardest he might get a B or a C.

I once read a CBT book with the title chapter "Dare to Be Average." As a recovering perfectionist, I remind myself of that on a regular basis. Average is okay.

And always remember that thinking of yourself as a "huge failure" is the flip side of being a "huge success." You're making yourself out to be the worst person ever when in reality you're not. You're just average. And being a huge failure can be an attractive option when you have a desperate need to control what happens to you - because you may not have succeeded but you went down in glorious flames and you don't have to live with the anxiety of not knowing whether you're a success.

Anyway, I'm sure you know all this already but I just noticed the way you described it (utter perfection or utter failure) and wondered if that contributed slightly to the problem.

[Anonymous]

Why don't you let him fail in another arena? I have a DC who gets excellent grades with minimal effort and is not stressed about them at all, but because he does so well in school, he doesn't want to participate in things he is not effortlessly going to excel in. I'm ready to force him to take a sport he is not a natural at, just so he can do his best and be meh at it. Doing his best is what matters. I like "daring to be average" PP.