CTCL schools

[Anonymous]

A few thoughts:

Loren Pope is dead so the original name of some book he wrote isn’t going to change

CTCL schools have higher ses kids (which offers a lot of benefits) and higher graduation rates than their peer state schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Evergreen State College is a CTCL school. It accepts nearly everybody who applies (98 percent) and a full 1/3 don't make it past freshman year. So much for changing lives.

That's the national average for freshman retention. That said, it's good to due diligence on any list of colleges for things that matter to you.

For LACs I look at: Freshman retention, 4 and 6 year graduation rates, career outcomes, and graduate school admissions. I look at where my kid falls on GPA/SAT and aim to be in the upper half. I couldn't give 2 beans about percent accepted.

If it's the national average than it proves my point that CTCL schools aren't "special." In many cases they're just average.

It's more of an obsession than a point.

Yet you circle right back in and comment immediately on my and every other anti-CTCL post. So, who's obsessed exactly?

[Anonymous]

Ditch the CTCL name, or stop trying to turn it into a thing. The CTCL schools are no better or more special than any other LAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Evergreen State College is a CTCL school. It accepts nearly everybody who applies (98 percent) and a full 1/3 don't make it past freshman year. So much for changing lives.

Your snobbery knows no bounds.

Not all schools on the list are the same. Evergreen is a popular choice for kids where I grew up and it has a very unique and unusual structure/mission. They clearly cast a wide net. It is in financial trouble for sure, and has seen enrollment declines. Around 40% of their students receive Pell Grants.

Would *I* go there? No. Would I recommend it to my kid? No. But for underachieving kids from Washington with an interest in environmental studies? Sure -- it's tuition is 9K annually and it ranks very high for undergrad teaching. Evergreen isn't going to rank well on most of the metrics DCUM folks tend to care about; more of their grads will end up as community organizers or urban farmers with low salaries. But that doesn't mean that it is some terrible school no one should consider. The reason it's on the CTCL list is precisely because it's a school with an unusual program and a teaching focus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts:

Loren Pope is dead so the original name of some book he wrote isn’t going to change

CTCL schools have higher ses kids (which offers a lot of benefits) and higher graduation rates than their peer state schools

Some do, some definitely don't, and some -- like the one I just named -- ARE state schools.

You are a know-nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Evergreen State College is a CTCL school. It accepts nearly everybody who applies (98 percent) and a full 1/3 don't make it past freshman year. So much for changing lives.

That's the national average for freshman retention. That said, it's good to due diligence on any list of colleges for things that matter to you.

For LACs I look at: Freshman retention, 4 and 6 year graduation rates, career outcomes, and graduate school admissions. I look at where my kid falls on GPA/SAT and aim to be in the upper half. I couldn't give 2 beans about percent accepted.

If it's the national average than it proves my point that CTCL schools aren't "special." In many cases they're just average.

It's more of an obsession than a point.

Yet you circle right back in and comment immediately on my and every other anti-CTCL post. So, who's obsessed exactly?

You. You are obsessed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts:

Loren Pope is dead so the original name of some book he wrote isn’t going to change

CTCL schools have higher ses kids (which offers a lot of benefits) and higher graduation rates than their peer state schools

Some do, some definitely don't, and some -- like the one I just named -- ARE state schools.

You are a know-nothing.

*Most* do. The vast majority do. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Evergreen State College is a CTCL school. It accepts nearly everybody who applies (98 percent) and a full 1/3 don't make it past freshman year. So much for changing lives.

Your snobbery knows no bounds.

Not all schools on the list are the same. Evergreen is a popular choice for kids where I grew up and it has a very unique and unusual structure/mission. They clearly cast a wide net. It is in financial trouble for sure, and has seen enrollment declines. Around 40% of their students receive Pell Grants.

Would *I* go there? No. Would I recommend it to my kid? No. But for underachieving kids from Washington with an interest in environmental studies? Sure -- it's tuition is 9K annually and it ranks very high for undergrad teaching. Evergreen isn't going to rank well on most of the metrics DCUM folks tend to care about; more of their grads will end up as community organizers or urban farmers with low salaries. But that doesn't mean that it is some terrible school no one should consider. The reason it's on the CTCL list is precisely because it's a school with an unusual program and a teaching focus.

Poster who says CTCLs are full of "high ses" students -- take note.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Evergreen State College is a CTCL school. It accepts nearly everybody who applies (98 percent) and a full 1/3 don't make it past freshman year. So much for changing lives.

That's the national average for freshman retention. That said, it's good to due diligence on any list of colleges for things that matter to you.

For LACs I look at: Freshman retention, 4 and 6 year graduation rates, career outcomes, and graduate school admissions. I look at where my kid falls on GPA/SAT and aim to be in the upper half. I couldn't give 2 beans about percent accepted.

If it's the national average than it proves my point that CTCL schools aren't "special." In many cases they're just average.

It's more of an obsession than a point.

Yet you circle right back in and comment immediately on my and every other anti-CTCL post. So, who's obsessed exactly?

You. You are obsessed.

Take two to tango!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Evergreen State College is a CTCL school. It accepts nearly everybody who applies (98 percent) and a full 1/3 don't make it past freshman year. So much for changing lives.

That's the national average for freshman retention. That said, it's good to due diligence on any list of colleges for things that matter to you.

For LACs I look at: Freshman retention, 4 and 6 year graduation rates, career outcomes, and graduate school admissions. I look at where my kid falls on GPA/SAT and aim to be in the upper half. I couldn't give 2 beans about percent accepted.

If it's the national average than it proves my point that CTCL schools aren't "special." In many cases they're just average.

It's more of an obsession than a point.

Most of the schools on the list have much higher freshman retention than the national average. But when a school accepts 98% (which is less selective than average) which means you're getting a full range of students there are going to be more students that don't succeed. If you get a 2.0 GPA in HS there's a fair chance you're not going to succeed at any college--but if it's worth the cost to you and your family to try? A SLAC might get some kids over the hump more than CC or low-end state u. And Evergreen worked for Matt Groening pretty well I guess. And Lynda Barry! Maybe the school is an offbeat route to success for cartoonists? (just looked up their notable alumni)

Though, I actually think given the trajectory of some SLACs, CTCL should have an 'off-ramping' process though for schools that go below the average freshman retention rate for x number of years, are in financial dire straits or don't meet graduation requirements etc. (Though pandemic time shouldn't count in those stats).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Evergreen State College is a CTCL school. It accepts nearly everybody who applies (98 percent) and a full 1/3 don't make it past freshman year. So much for changing lives.

That's the national average for freshman retention. That said, it's good to due diligence on any list of colleges for things that matter to you.

For LACs I look at: Freshman retention, 4 and 6 year graduation rates, career outcomes, and graduate school admissions. I look at where my kid falls on GPA/SAT and aim to be in the upper half. I couldn't give 2 beans about percent accepted.

If it's the national average than it proves my point that CTCL schools aren't "special." In many cases they're just average.

It's more of an obsession than a point.

Most of the schools on the list have much higher freshman retention than the national average. But when a school accepts 98% (which is less selective than average) which means you're getting a full range of students there are going to be more students that don't succeed. If you get a 2.0 GPA in HS there's a fair chance you're not going to succeed at any college--but if it's worth the cost to you and your family to try? A SLAC might get some kids over the hump more than CC or low-end state u. And Evergreen worked for Matt Groening pretty well I guess. And Lynda Barry! Maybe the school is an offbeat route to success for cartoonists? (just looked up their notable alumni)

Though, I actually think given the trajectory of some SLACs, CTCL should have an 'off-ramping' process though for schools that go below the average freshman retention rate for x number of years, are in financial dire straits or don't meet graduation requirements etc. (Though pandemic time shouldn't count in those stats).

Adding: and evergreen state college is a public liberal arts college, which is fairly unusual and costs less than many private LACs.

[Anonymous]

Generally speaking CTCL graduation rates are nothing special. Catholic schools with similar caliber students tend to have higher freshman retention and graduation rates while also offering more practical majors and an equal sense of community. For example, everybody drools all over Juniata in Pennsylvania but both Jesuit schools in that state - St Joes and Scranton - have higher retention and graduation rates and also offer heavy discounts to good students. All the more reason why CTCL schools aren’t “special.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Generally speaking CTCL graduation rates are nothing special. Catholic schools with similar caliber students tend to have higher freshman retention and graduation rates while also offering more practical majors and an equal sense of community. For example, everybody drools all over Juniata in Pennsylvania but both Jesuit schools in that state - St Joes and Scranton - have higher retention and graduation rates and also offer heavy discounts to good students. All the more reason why CTCL schools aren’t “special.”

Most Catholic schools are for a pretty niche audience and are often in worse financial situations than SLACS. More than 1/2 the faculty are adjuncts at St Joe's--which is atypical for LAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Generally speaking CTCL graduation rates are nothing special. Catholic schools with similar caliber students tend to have higher freshman retention and graduation rates while also offering more practical majors and an equal sense of community. For example, everybody drools all over Juniata in Pennsylvania but both Jesuit schools in that state - St Joes and Scranton - have higher retention and graduation rates and also offer heavy discounts to good students. All the more reason why CTCL schools aren’t “special.”

Scranton is a CTCL.

[Anonymous]

It is genuinely cultish how the CTCL pushers are trying to lionize Loren Pope into some all-knowing being in an attempt to legitimize their weird little group. He was a writer, which is great, but there are plenty of people who write about colleges and college admissions. He is Loren Pope, not the actual Pope.