New TJ Lawsuit Filed 3/10/21 by Pacific Legal Foundation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine standing at the school house door telling a group of people that there are too many of them who are gifted and academically high achievers, so we are not going to accept their children into our program, even when we know they're deserving and qualified.

It would be abhorrent if that were happening. What is actually happening is that people are standing at the school house door saying "there are groups of people who are systematically excluded from this school but who are also gifted and academically high achievers, and we are going to make room for them in part by expanding the overall size of each incoming class".

Again, just because it impacts you doesn't mean it's about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine standing at the school house door telling a group of people that there are too many of them who are gifted and academically high achievers, so we are not going to accept their children into our program, even when we know they're deserving and qualified.

It would be abhorrent if that were happening. What is actually happening is that people are standing at the school house door saying "there are groups of people who are systematically excluded from this school but who are also gifted and academically high achievers, and we are going to make room for them in part by expanding the overall size of each incoming class".

Again, just because it impacts you doesn't mean it's about you.

+1. It would be unsurprising if the raw number of Asian students offered admission to the Class of 2025 were actually higher than the Class of 2024, even if the percentage is reduced. Remember, we're looking at 550 offers of admission and a rolling process from that point forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine standing at the school house door telling a group of people that there are too many of them who are gifted and academically high achievers, so we are not going to accept their children into our program, even when we know they're deserving and qualified.

It would be abhorrent if that were happening. What is actually happening is that people are standing at the school house door saying "there are groups of people who are systematically excluded from this school but who are also gifted and academically high achievers, and we are going to make room for them in part by expanding the overall size of each incoming class".

Again, just because it impacts you doesn't mean it's about you.

+1. It would be unsurprising if the raw number of Asian students offered admission to the Class of 2025 were actually higher than the Class of 2024, even if the percentage is reduced. Remember, we're looking at 550 offers of admission and a rolling process from that point forward.

lol - you can't be serious. So this is a good thing for Asian Americans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine standing at the school house door telling a group of people that there are too many of them who are gifted and academically high achievers, so we are not going to accept their children into our program, even when we know they're deserving and qualified.

It would be abhorrent if that were happening. What is actually happening is that people are standing at the school house door saying "there are groups of people who are systematically excluded from this school but who are also gifted and academically high achievers, and we are going to make room for them in part by expanding the overall size of each incoming class".

Again, just because it impacts you doesn't mean it's about you.

+1. It would be unsurprising if the raw number of Asian students offered admission to the Class of 2025 were actually higher than the Class of 2024, even if the percentage is reduced. Remember, we're looking at 550 offers of admission and a rolling process from that point forward.

lol - you can't be serious. So this is a good thing for Asian Americans?

Well, let's see....

- going to school with a few more kids from diverse perspectives would be pretty good for the Asian Americans who get into TJ, as the myopic points of view on this thread routinely prove
- the ones who won't get in are likely to be the ones who got in because of test prep and would be toward the back end of the class anyway, whose college prospects are most hampered by having gone to TJ in the first place
- TJ kids as a whole suffer in the college admissions process every year because too many of their students (all of them, not just Asians) are too similar on paper

... so yeah, it honestly probably is good for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine standing at the school house door telling a group of people that there are too many of them who are gifted and academically high achievers, so we are not going to accept their children into our program, even when we know they're deserving and qualified.

It would be abhorrent if that were happening. What is actually happening is that people are standing at the school house door saying "there are groups of people who are systematically excluded from this school but who are also gifted and academically high achievers, and we are going to make room for them in part by expanding the overall size of each incoming class".

Again, just because it impacts you doesn't mean it's about you.

+1. It would be unsurprising if the raw number of Asian students offered admission to the Class of 2025 were actually higher than the Class of 2024, even if the percentage is reduced. Remember, we're looking at 550 offers of admission and a rolling process from that point forward.

lol - you can't be serious. So this is a good thing for Asian Americans?

Well, let's see....

- going to school with a few more kids from diverse perspectives would be pretty good for the Asian Americans who get into TJ, as the myopic points of view on this thread routinely prove
- the ones who won't get in are likely to be the ones who got in because of test prep and would be toward the back end of the class anyway, whose college prospects are most hampered by having gone to TJ in the first place
- TJ kids as a whole suffer in the college admissions process every year because too many of their students (all of them, not just Asians) are too similar on paper

... so yeah, it honestly probably is good for us.

oh, and I forgot that there's no longer a compelling reason for me to send my kids to a million hours of test prep. I wasn't going to anyway, but at least now I don't have to feel like a bad parent at temple for not shelling out thousands of dollars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine standing at the school house door telling a group of people that there are too many of them who are gifted and academically high achievers, so we are not going to accept their children into our program, even when we know they're deserving and qualified.

It would be abhorrent if that were happening. What is actually happening is that people are standing at the school house door saying "there are groups of people who are systematically excluded from this school but who are also gifted and academically high achievers, and we are going to make room for them in part by expanding the overall size of each incoming class".

Again, just because it impacts you doesn't mean it's about you.

+1. It would be unsurprising if the raw number of Asian students offered admission to the Class of 2025 were actually higher than the Class of 2024, even if the percentage is reduced. Remember, we're looking at 550 offers of admission and a rolling process from that point forward.

lol - you can't be serious. So this is a good thing for Asian Americans?

Well, let's see....

- going to school with a few more kids from diverse perspectives would be pretty good for the Asian Americans who get into TJ, as the myopic points of view on this thread routinely prove
- the ones who won't get in are likely to be the ones who got in because of test prep and would be toward the back end of the class anyway, whose college prospects are most hampered by having gone to TJ in the first place
- TJ kids as a whole suffer in the college admissions process every year because too many of their students (all of them, not just Asians) are too similar on paper

... so yeah, it honestly probably is good for us.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine standing at the school house door telling a group of people that there are too many of them who are gifted and academically high achievers, so we are not going to accept their children into our program, even when we know they're deserving and qualified.

It would be abhorrent if that were happening. What is actually happening is that people are standing at the school house door saying "there are groups of people who are systematically excluded from this school but who are also gifted and academically high achievers, and we are going to make room for them in part by expanding the overall size of each incoming class".

Again, just because it impacts you doesn't mean it's about you.

That's great if by admitting more students all academically high achieving and gifted learners who apply can access the program.

[Anonymous]

What is the proposed change or the change to admissions process? Is it to simply take top 1.5% of kids from each and every middle school in the county, regardless of race? please explain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the proposed change or the change to admissions process? Is it to simply take top 1.5% of kids from each and every middle school in the county, regardless of race? please explain.

Also, exactly how are they going to determine the top 1.5%? If TJ admissions is going to use a similar process as previous years, but ensure that at least around 6 kids from each middle school are selected, that would be fine. I don't know if it was just a rumor, but I had heard earlier that it would be GPA for all kids in at least 3 honors classes and at least Algebra I in 8th grade. That would be a terrible metric for finding the best students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine standing at the school house door telling a group of people that there are too many of them who are gifted and academically high achievers, so we are not going to accept their children into our program, even when we know they're deserving and qualified.

It would be abhorrent if that were happening. What is actually happening is that people are standing at the school house door saying "there are groups of people who are systematically excluded from this school but who are also gifted and academically high achievers, and we are going to make room for them in part by expanding the overall size of each incoming class".

Again, just because it impacts you doesn't mean it's about you.

That's great if by admitting more students all academically high achieving and gifted learners who apply can access the program.

They have never been able to before, and as such measures like this are a huge step in the right direction even if imperfect. But there is only room enough in that building for 550 students per class, and only enough money in the FCPS budget for one TJ.

Now, if you want to build more TJs, you're going to need a higher overall share of revenue for the county/state, and you will need a bigger share of that revenue to go to education. Vote accordingly, for your governor, your board of supervisors, your School Board, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the proposed change or the change to admissions process? Is it to simply take top 1.5% of kids from each and every middle school in the county, regardless of race? please explain.

Also, exactly how are they going to determine the top 1.5%? If TJ admissions is going to use a similar process as previous years, but ensure that at least around 6 kids from each middle school are selected, that would be fine. I don't know if it was just a rumor, but I had heard earlier that it would be GPA for all kids in at least 3 honors classes and at least Algebra I in 8th grade. That would be a terrible metric for finding the best students.

I think it's a great idea to try to bring more Hispanic and Black students into TJ. And AAP. I really do.

But in this hypothetical TJ admissions system, as applied, is it possible the biggest winners would be less deserving white kids displacing higher scoring Asian kids? Perhaps there's another more targeted solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the proposed change or the change to admissions process? Is it to simply take top 1.5% of kids from each and every middle school in the county, regardless of race? please explain.

Also, exactly how are they going to determine the top 1.5%? If TJ admissions is going to use a similar process as previous years, but ensure that at least around 6 kids from each middle school are selected, that would be fine. I don't know if it was just a rumor, but I had heard earlier that it would be GPA for all kids in at least 3 honors classes and at least Algebra I in 8th grade. That would be a terrible metric for finding the best students.

I think it's a great idea to try to bring more Hispanic and Black students into TJ. And AAP. I really do.

But in this hypothetical TJ admissions system, as applied, is it possible the biggest winners would be less deserving white kids displacing higher scoring Asian kids? Perhaps there's another more targeted solution.

1) How do you define "less deserving"?

2) As it currently stands, white kids don't go to TJ because they don't apply to TJ. See the application numbers over the last dozen years and how they've plummeted. If they all of a sudden start applying again, that doesn't mean that they're inherently less deserving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the proposed change or the change to admissions process? Is it to simply take top 1.5% of kids from each and every middle school in the county, regardless of race? please explain.

Also, exactly how are they going to determine the top 1.5%? If TJ admissions is going to use a similar process as previous years, but ensure that at least around 6 kids from each middle school are selected, that would be fine. I don't know if it was just a rumor, but I had heard earlier that it would be GPA for all kids in at least 3 honors classes and at least Algebra I in 8th grade. That would be a terrible metric for finding the best students.

I think it's a great idea to try to bring more Hispanic and Black students into TJ. And AAP. I really do.

But in this hypothetical TJ admissions system, as applied, is it possible the biggest winners would be less deserving white kids displacing higher scoring Asian kids? Perhaps there's another more targeted solution.

1) How do you define "less deserving"?

2) As it currently stands, white kids don't go to TJ because they don't apply to TJ. See the application numbers over the last dozen years and how they've plummeted. If they all of a sudden start applying again, that doesn't mean that they're inherently less deserving.

Lower test scores, grades, and whatever other activities, credentials, recs are reviewed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the proposed change or the change to admissions process? Is it to simply take top 1.5% of kids from each and every middle school in the county, regardless of race? please explain.

Also, exactly how are they going to determine the top 1.5%? If TJ admissions is going to use a similar process as previous years, but ensure that at least around 6 kids from each middle school are selected, that would be fine. I don't know if it was just a rumor, but I had heard earlier that it would be GPA for all kids in at least 3 honors classes and at least Algebra I in 8th grade. That would be a terrible metric for finding the best students.

I think it's a great idea to try to bring more Hispanic and Black students into TJ. And AAP. I really do.

But in this hypothetical TJ admissions system, as applied, is it possible the biggest winners would be less deserving white kids displacing higher scoring Asian kids? Perhaps there's another more targeted solution.

The biggest winners in this process, by some significant margin, will be the top performers at middle schools who are not traditionally represented at TJ - if they apply and accept their offer of admission. I suspect a lot of them won't, to be honest.

The biggest winners will be kids who are high achievers but who have not spent inordinate amounts of time and money learning the relatively useless discipline of testing strategy.

The biggest winners will be kids who are actually bright and talented. "But how will they measure that?" They're not going to tell you. Because if they did, you would invariably spend all of your resources trying to make your kid look like the standard that they describe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the proposed change or the change to admissions process? Is it to simply take top 1.5% of kids from each and every middle school in the county, regardless of race? please explain.

Also, exactly how are they going to determine the top 1.5%? If TJ admissions is going to use a similar process as previous years, but ensure that at least around 6 kids from each middle school are selected, that would be fine. I don't know if it was just a rumor, but I had heard earlier that it would be GPA for all kids in at least 3 honors classes and at least Algebra I in 8th grade. That would be a terrible metric for finding the best students.

I think it's a great idea to try to bring more Hispanic and Black students into TJ. And AAP. I really do.

But in this hypothetical TJ admissions system, as applied, is it possible the biggest winners would be less deserving white kids displacing higher scoring Asian kids? Perhaps there's another more targeted solution.

1) How do you define "less deserving"?

2) As it currently stands, white kids don't go to TJ because they don't apply to TJ. See the application numbers over the last dozen years and how they've plummeted. If they all of a sudden start applying again, that doesn't mean that they're inherently less deserving.

Lower test scores, grades, and whatever other activities, credentials, recs are reviewed.

There won't be a way for the folks on this forum to evaluate whether or not that's taken place. They'll speculate about it endlessly, I'm sure, but there will be no way to confirm it.

The only thing that folks have been able to successfully FOIA are grades, exam scores, and applicant status. They're not identified by race or by school or by any other identifier.