Question about the homophobia thread

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

Nope. A job to bear children as defined by evolutionary biology.

Human reproduction requires females to carry pregnancies and breastfeed (before alternates were available).

It does not require female to raise children, stay home, or be be treated as lesser. Those roles, expectations, and limitations were/are imposed by society.

Hm, why do think society imposed these roles on females?

Gender and sex are related.

But the roles and expectations imposed by society are gender, not sex.

You’re being deliberately obtuse to try and prove a point. You’re failing miserably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

Nope. A job to bear children as defined by evolutionary biology.

Human reproduction requires females to carry pregnancies and breastfeed (before alternates were available).

It does not require female to raise children, stay home, or be be treated as lesser. Those roles, expectations, and limitations were/are imposed by society.

Hm, why do think society imposed these roles on females?

Gender and sex are related.

But the roles and expectations imposed by society are gender, not sex.

You didn’t answer the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

You’re probably right. Those cavemen definitely decided that the woman should stay home and have/raise kids. That’s totally what happened.

The expectation came from society.

I can see there is no rational conversation to be had here.

Exactly what Jeff said at the start of this post. How ironic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

You’re probably right. Those cavemen definitely decided that the woman should stay home and have/raise kids. That’s totally what happened.

The expectation came from society.

Why do you think society expected this? Could it possibly be because men are stronger and naturally better hunters/gatherers? And the women breastfed the babies because, oh I don’t know, they had breasts? Because back then, breastfeeding was caring for the baby. Are you trying to tell me men could do that but as a society they got together and decided “nah, let’s let the womenfolk do it! They love that stuff anyway”?

Gender and sex are related.

The only aspects that are sex-based are biological functions (insemination, pregnancy & breastfeeding). Beyond that, any roles, expectations, or limitations are formed by society. Even a primitive one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

You’re probably right. Those cavemen definitely decided that the woman should stay home and have/raise kids. That’s totally what happened.

The expectation came from society.

I can see there is no rational conversation to be had here.

Exactly what Jeff said at the start of this post. How ironic.

Yup. If you don’t agree with the modern definition of sex and gender then not much to discuss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

Nope. A job to bear children as defined by evolutionary biology.

Human reproduction requires females to carry pregnancies and breastfeed (before alternates were available).

It does not require female to raise children, stay home, or be be treated as lesser. Those roles, expectations, and limitations were/are imposed by society.

Hm, why do think society imposed these roles on females?

Gender and sex are related.

But the roles and expectations imposed by society are gender, not sex.

You’re being deliberately obtuse to try and prove a point. You’re failing miserably.

No, I just know the proper use of the terms gender and sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

You’re probably right. Those cavemen definitely decided that the woman should stay home and have/raise kids. That’s totally what happened.

The expectation came from society.

I can see there is no rational conversation to be had here.

Exactly what Jeff said at the start of this post. How ironic.

And yet we’re 30-something pages in. Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

Nope. A job to bear children as defined by evolutionary biology.

Human reproduction requires females to carry pregnancies and breastfeed (before alternates were available).

It does not require female to raise children, stay home, or be be treated as lesser. Those roles, expectations, and limitations were/are imposed by society.

Hm, why do think society imposed these roles on females?

Gender and sex are related.

But the roles and expectations imposed by society are gender, not sex.

You’re being deliberately obtuse to try and prove a point. You’re failing miserably.

No, I just know the proper use of the terms gender and sex.

I do too. Most of us do. But we also realize gender stereotypes were based on sex. They didn’t materialize out of thin air. There was no committee that decided what they would be based on a whim. You’re being disingenuous if you try to argue against this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

You’re probably right. Those cavemen definitely decided that the woman should stay home and have/raise kids. That’s totally what happened.

The expectation came from society.

Why do you think society expected this? Could it possibly be because men are stronger and naturally better hunters/gatherers? And the women breastfed the babies because, oh I don’t know, they had breasts? Because back then, breastfeeding was caring for the baby. Are you trying to tell me men could do that but as a society they got together and decided “nah, let’s let the womenfolk do it! They love that stuff anyway”?

Gender and sex are related.

The only aspects that are sex-based are biological functions (insemination, pregnancy & breastfeeding). Beyond that, any roles, expectations, or limitations are formed by society. Even a primitive one.

There are physical differences beyond reproduction. Bone density and muscle mass, to name two. Those are sex based as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

Nope. A job to bear children as defined by evolutionary biology.

Human reproduction requires females to carry pregnancies and breastfeed (before alternates were available).

It does not require female to raise children, stay home, or be be treated as lesser. Those roles, expectations, and limitations were/are imposed by society.

Hm, why do think society imposed these roles on females?

Gender and sex are related.

But the roles and expectations imposed by society are gender, not sex.

You’re being deliberately obtuse to try and prove a point. You’re failing miserably.

No, I just know the proper use of the terms gender and sex.

I do too. Most of us do. But we also realize gender stereotypes were based on sex. They didn’t materialize out of thin air. There was no committee that decided what they would be based on a whim. You’re being disingenuous if you try to argue against this.

+1 Everyone posting in the past half hour or so knows the modern understanding of the terms and is using them properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

Nope. A job to bear children as defined by evolutionary biology.

Human reproduction requires females to carry pregnancies and breastfeed (before alternates were available).

It does not require female to raise children, stay home, or be be treated as lesser. Those roles, expectations, and limitations were/are imposed by society.

Hm, why do think society imposed these roles on females?

Gender and sex are related.

But the roles and expectations imposed by society are gender, not sex.

You’re being deliberately obtuse to try and prove a point. You’re failing miserably.

No, I just know the proper use of the terms gender and sex.

I do too. Most of us do. But we also realize gender stereotypes were based on sex. They didn’t materialize out of thin air. There was no committee that decided what they would be based on a whim. You’re being disingenuous if you try to argue against this.

I’m not. I already said they were related.

But gender is gender. And sex is sex. The issue that women face in society today are gender-based (society), not sex-based (biology).

Feminists fight for women’s rights, not female’s rights. Society, not biology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

You’re probably right. Those cavemen definitely decided that the woman should stay home and have/raise kids. That’s totally what happened.

The expectation came from society.

I can see there is no rational conversation to be had here.

Exactly what Jeff said at the start of this post. How ironic.

And yet we’re 30-something pages in. Interesting.

Not really. The people that think sex and gender are the same thing think everyone should change their mind to agree with them but are not willing to reevaluate their own opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

You’re probably right. Those cavemen definitely decided that the woman should stay home and have/raise kids. That’s totally what happened.

The expectation came from society.

I can see there is no rational conversation to be had here.

Exactly what Jeff said at the start of this post. How ironic.

And yet we’re 30-something pages in. Interesting.

Not really. The people that think sex and gender are the same thing think everyone should change their mind to agree with them but are not willing to reevaluate their own opinion.

Can you point out the posts where people are arguing that sex and gender are the same thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

You’re probably right. Those cavemen definitely decided that the woman should stay home and have/raise kids. That’s totally what happened.

The expectation came from society.

Why do you think society expected this? Could it possibly be because men are stronger and naturally better hunters/gatherers? And the women breastfed the babies because, oh I don’t know, they had breasts? Because back then, breastfeeding was caring for the baby. Are you trying to tell me men could do that but as a society they got together and decided “nah, let’s let the womenfolk do it! They love that stuff anyway”?

Gender and sex are related.

The only aspects that are sex-based are biological functions (insemination, pregnancy & breastfeeding). Beyond that, any roles, expectations, or limitations are formed by society. Even a primitive one.

There are physical differences beyond reproduction. Bone density and muscle mass, to name two. Those are sex based as well.

Those are hormone based. It’s actually kind of interesting that transphobic people believe all trans women look like Lia Thomas. It makes it a lot harder for you to be able to tell whol us trans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the facility would be happy to look for another specialist who isn't a bigot.

You CANNOT be serious. Doctors are hired for their medical expertise, not their political or personal beliefs.

You would go see a dermatologist who believes in white supremacy?

I’m not the PP but wow does this comment demonstrate your remarkable privilege. You are clearly telegraphing how young, white, fully-abled, thin, and AMAB you are here.

Anyone who is not as favored by the medical establishment as you are lives in a very different world. There is so much deep bias in medicine against women, against the elderly, against the disabled, against POCs, etc, that those of us in these categories already know we’ve been treated by care providers who are bigoted against us. If women started demanding that any provider who held a bigoted view of women leave the field, we’d have many fewer professionals left to treat us. I think if you made the same demand with respect to beliefs about obesity, there might not literally be a single doctor left practicing in the country.

I’m kind of shocked by your entitlement and cluelessness here but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Nope. And I absolutely do stop going to doctors I discover are bigoted.

That is a privilege most people don’t have.

Of course they do. No one is forcing you to see a particular doctor.

Well, maybe if you're captive at a mental health facility. Then you are forced to see whoever they can scrape up.

I am the mental healthcare facility doctor. Thank you for showing your true colors.
I will continue to provide excellent healthcare to my patients (even though to you it is inherently inferior because I don’t walk in with a sandwich board proclaiming “trans women are women!” but I digress) while you continue to bang out your trans rights screeds on an anonymous forum. I guess it makes you feel like you are doing something meaningful in the lives of trans people.

You’re a bigot. You want to be congratulated for hiding it at work?

DP, when your arguments mostly consist of name calling like “bigot” then you’ve already lost the argument. At least explain your position in a respectful, coherent way otherwise it comes across as meaningless and intellectually lazy.

They can't. Their very platform of ideas is incoherent and anti-scientific.

The PP thinks transgenderism is mental illness and wants to exclude and discriminate against transgender people. No bathrooms, sports, etc.

Their choice of bathroom and sports are not basic human rights.

Using the bathroom is a human right. Sports is not.

So you’re trying to tell me that we are taking away their right to use the bathroom? Is that what you’re saying? Because that is 100% untrue.

That's kind of the point even if you won't admit it. You don't want trans women in the women's room. You don't ACTUALLY want trans women in the men's room with your husband and son either. You don't want a bearded trans man in the women's room. Many trans men look like cis men. Some trans women look like cis women. The whole point of saying that trans people should be banned from the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity is to prevent them from going out in public. I know you'll never admit it even on an anonomouys message board.

It's kind of irrelevant though because in DC trans people are legally allowed to use the bathroom that aligns to their gender identity. Same in Maryland. I'm sure you can live in a state that will force trans people to use the bathroom of their birth gender (even if their ID shows the one that they identify as).

I support having a third category of gender neutral bathrooms. Why are you trying to take away the rights of biological females to define ourselves as a sex-based class of people. Just admit that you ACTUALLY want to remove sex-based protections for women.

+ a million.

This is exactly what feminists worldwide are fighting for, but they are told to STFU and censored in the US.

Only the trans-exclusionary feminists.

All of the other feminists want to protect ALL women.

The New Oxford Dictionary defines
feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the SEXES.”

SEXES. Not gender. Or is this just another definition that has changed?

Inclusive feminists want to protect rights for ALL women.

So then the definition of feminism HAS changed. Thanks for clarifying. It’s so hard to keep up these days.

It has always been about protecting “women”, not “females”.

I think you’re being disingenuous with this. When the women’s movement started, it wasn’t about people who “feel” like women. It was about females (which back then were also called women because they were considered one and the same). If you can find me any literature from the beginning of the women’s movement that talks about equal rights for all women (even those who just feel like women), I’d love to see it.

It’s always been about women.

The definition of woman has expanded over time.

It’s always been about females. I think you know this.

No, because the issues have always been about constraints imposed by society, not biology.

Gender, not sex.

Feminism is about women and their challenges imposed by society.

They were imposed by society BECAUSE of biology. Women were the weaker sex - their job was to give birth and raise the children. They were seen as less than - so they were treated as such.

A job and viewpoint defined by society.

You’re probably right. Those cavemen definitely decided that the woman should stay home and have/raise kids. That’s totally what happened.

The expectation came from society.

I can see there is no rational conversation to be had here.

Exactly what Jeff said at the start of this post. How ironic.

And yet we’re 30-something pages in. Interesting.

Not really. The people that think sex and gender are the same thing think everyone should change their mind to agree with them but are not willing to reevaluate their own opinion.

Same can be said about those who think gender stereotypes have nothing to do with sex, and aren’t willing to reevaluate their own opinion.