Gaza war and College Campus Protests

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Nice way to explain apartheid!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Netanyahu is almost the Yasser Arafat of Israel. Someone corrupt and only concerned with their political survival and popularity and filling their bank account up and nothing else. He’s failed

True. But you have to ask why did Hamas and all their supporters in Gaza choose to invade Israel and commit all those atrocities knowing that amoral scum like Netanyahu would obliterate Gaza if given a chance? This is the most right wing government in the history of Israel. Hamas chose to kill 1200 innocent civilians knowing very well that this government in particular would absolutely destroy both Gaza and any hopes for a Palestinian state in anyone's lifetime. It's bizarre to me why Palestinians in Gaza chose this course of action at this moment in time. But Palestinians making terrible decisions from 1947 onwards is to be expected. It's a pity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Nice way to explain apartheid!

Not the poster you are responding to, but there is no apartheid in Israel. Jews, Druze, beduin and Muslims have equal rights. If you mean all the checkpoints for those from Gaza it is because before all that security there were more terrorist attacks. Sadly Palestinians with good intentions suffer due to the actions of those who are a threat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Nice way to explain apartheid!

Not the poster you are responding to, but there is no apartheid in Israel. Jews, Druze, beduin and Muslims have equal rights. If you mean all the checkpoints for those from Gaza it is because before all that security there were more terrorist attacks. Sadly Palestinians with good intentions suffer due to the actions of those who are a threat.

This is not true. Israel only deigns to allow Arab Israelis to vote because they are in the minority and can't make any major changes to the running of the theocratic state. Let's not forget that Palestinians were reduced to a minority through ethnic cleansing. During the Nakba, 750,000 Palestinians were evicted from what is now Israel, 15,000 were exterminated, and only 150,000 were allowed to remain. This is tokenism intended to whitewash the racist nature of Israel's government.

Further, Jews anywhere in the world may immigrate to Israel and be granted Israeli citizenship, but Palestinians cannot do the same-not even those forcibly evicted from Israel during and after the Nakba. They have never been compensated for the loss of their homes, possessions, and loved ones. This conduct places Israel in clear violation of UN Resolution 194.

Residents of Gaza and the WB who marry Arab Israelis normally cannot reside in Israel.

Arab Israelis face many barriers to land ownership through land laws that don't apply to Jewish Israelis.

Arab Israelis face discrimination within the Israeli court system. Just last year, the Israeli parliament passed a law allowing penalties for sexual crimes to be doubled if the perpetrator is Palestinian if the motive is deemed to be "nationalistic." This stands in sharp contrast to the number of Israelis who think it is acceptable to rape Palestinian prisoners. A journalist named Yehuda Schlesinger recently argued that it should be a "regulated policy of the state to abuse the (Palestinian) detainees" because "they deserve it, and it is great revenge that we need to give them.” Rabbi Meir Mazuz, apparently a confidante of Netanyahu, recently blessed an Israeli soldier accused of raping a Palestinian prisoner. Mazuz said to the soldier, "'What did you do? Beat the enemy? So what?" and added, "Don’t we have the right to act like this?" Ben-Gvir has called for executing Palestinian detainees by shooting them in the head to relieve overcrowding in prisons and save on food costs.

Israeli government officials and community leaders consistently dehumanize Palestinians. A journalist named Yehuda Schlesinger recently argued that it should be a "regulated policy of the state to abuse the (Palestinian) detainees" because "they deserve it, and it is great revenge that we need to give them.” Rabbi Meir Mazuz, apparently a confidante of Netanyahu, recently blessed an Israeli soldier accused of raping a Palestinian prisoner. Mazuz said to the soldier, "'What did you do? Beat the enemy? So what?" and added, "Don’t we have the right to act like this?" Ben-Gvir has called for executing Palestinian detainees by shooting them in the head to relieve overcrowding in prisons and save on food costs. In general, these extremely racist and offensive statements are not publicly condemned.

If you still believe there is "no apartheid in Israel," perhaps you should consider how unaware of itself privilege really is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Nice way to explain apartheid!

Not the poster you are responding to, but there is no apartheid in Israel. Jews, Druze, beduin and Muslims have equal rights. If you mean all the checkpoints for those from Gaza it is because before all that security there were more terrorist attacks. Sadly Palestinians with good intentions suffer due to the actions of those who are a threat.

This is not true. Israel only deigns to allow Arab Israelis to vote because they are in the minority and can't make any major changes to the running of the theocratic state. Let's not forget that Palestinians were reduced to a minority through ethnic cleansing. During the Nakba, 750,000 Palestinians were evicted from what is now Israel, 15,000 were exterminated, and only 150,000 were allowed to remain. This is tokenism intended to whitewash the racist nature of Israel's government.

Further, Jews anywhere in the world may immigrate to Israel and be granted Israeli citizenship, but Palestinians cannot do the same-not even those forcibly evicted from Israel during and after the Nakba. They have never been compensated for the loss of their homes, possessions, and loved ones. This conduct places Israel in clear violation of UN Resolution 194.

Residents of Gaza and the WB who marry Arab Israelis normally cannot reside in Israel.

Arab Israelis face many barriers to land ownership through land laws that don't apply to Jewish Israelis.

Arab Israelis face discrimination within the Israeli court system. Just last year, the Israeli parliament passed a law allowing penalties for sexual crimes to be doubled if the perpetrator is Palestinian if the motive is deemed to be "nationalistic." This stands in sharp contrast to the number of Israelis who think it is acceptable to rape Palestinian prisoners. A journalist named Yehuda Schlesinger recently argued that it should be a "regulated policy of the state to abuse the (Palestinian) detainees" because "they deserve it, and it is great revenge that we need to give them.” Rabbi Meir Mazuz, apparently a confidante of Netanyahu, recently blessed an Israeli soldier accused of raping a Palestinian prisoner. Mazuz said to the soldier, "'What did you do? Beat the enemy? So what?" and added, "Don’t we have the right to act like this?" Ben-Gvir has called for executing Palestinian detainees by shooting them in the head to relieve overcrowding in prisons and save on food costs.

Israeli government officials and community leaders consistently dehumanize Palestinians. A journalist named Yehuda Schlesinger recently argued that it should be a "regulated policy of the state to abuse the (Palestinian) detainees" because "they deserve it, and it is great revenge that we need to give them.” Rabbi Meir Mazuz, apparently a confidante of Netanyahu, recently blessed an Israeli soldier accused of raping a Palestinian prisoner. Mazuz said to the soldier, "'What did you do? Beat the enemy? So what?" and added, "Don’t we have the right to act like this?" Ben-Gvir has called for executing Palestinian detainees by shooting them in the head to relieve overcrowding in prisons and save on food costs. In general, these extremely racist and offensive statements are not publicly condemned.

If you still believe there is "no apartheid in Israel," perhaps you should consider how unaware of itself privilege really is.

I copied one part of a paragraph above to another and forgot to delete the original. Apologies for not proof-reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Nice way to explain apartheid!

Not the poster you are responding to, but there is no apartheid in Israel. Jews, Druze, beduin and Muslims have equal rights. If you mean all the checkpoints for those from Gaza it is because before all that security there were more terrorist attacks. Sadly Palestinians with good intentions suffer due to the actions of those who are a threat.

This is not true. Israel only deigns to allow Arab Israelis to vote because they are in the minority and can't make any major changes to the running of the theocratic state. Let's not forget that Palestinians were reduced to a minority through ethnic cleansing. During the Nakba, 750,000 Palestinians were evicted from what is now Israel, 15,000 were exterminated, and only 150,000 were allowed to remain. This is tokenism intended to whitewash the racist nature of Israel's government.

Further, Jews anywhere in the world may immigrate to Israel and be granted Israeli citizenship, but Palestinians cannot do the same-not even those forcibly evicted from Israel during and after the Nakba. They have never been compensated for the loss of their homes, possessions, and loved ones. This conduct places Israel in clear violation of UN Resolution 194.

Residents of Gaza and the WB who marry Arab Israelis normally cannot reside in Israel.

Arab Israelis face many barriers to land ownership through land laws that don't apply to Jewish Israelis.

Arab Israelis face discrimination within the Israeli court system. Just last year, the Israeli parliament passed a law allowing penalties for sexual crimes to be doubled if the perpetrator is Palestinian if the motive is deemed to be "nationalistic." This stands in sharp contrast to the number of Israelis who think it is acceptable to rape Palestinian prisoners. A journalist named Yehuda Schlesinger recently argued that it should be a "regulated policy of the state to abuse the (Palestinian) detainees" because "they deserve it, and it is great revenge that we need to give them.” Rabbi Meir Mazuz, apparently a confidante of Netanyahu, recently blessed an Israeli soldier accused of raping a Palestinian prisoner. Mazuz said to the soldier, "'What did you do? Beat the enemy? So what?" and added, "Don’t we have the right to act like this?" Ben-Gvir has called for executing Palestinian detainees by shooting them in the head to relieve overcrowding in prisons and save on food costs.

Israeli government officials and community leaders consistently dehumanize Palestinians. A journalist named Yehuda Schlesinger recently argued that it should be a "regulated policy of the state to abuse the (Palestinian) detainees" because "they deserve it, and it is great revenge that we need to give them.” Rabbi Meir Mazuz, apparently a confidante of Netanyahu, recently blessed an Israeli soldier accused of raping a Palestinian prisoner. Mazuz said to the soldier, "'What did you do? Beat the enemy? So what?" and added, "Don’t we have the right to act like this?" Ben-Gvir has called for executing Palestinian detainees by shooting them in the head to relieve overcrowding in prisons and save on food costs. In general, these extremely racist and offensive statements are not publicly condemned.

If you still believe there is "no apartheid in Israel," perhaps you should consider how unaware of itself privilege really is.

Ypseph Haddad an actual Arab Israeli has written and spoken extensively about why they claim of apartheid is a myth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Well said. They rarely bring up the hostages, but yes the terrorists are wholly to blame.

[Anonymous]

Good points by both. Murray is very knowledgeable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9o0MoV2O_g

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Well said. They rarely bring up the hostages, but yes the terrorists are wholly to blame.

Of course, taking hostages is always wrong and the hostages should be released, but what about the thousands of detainees held in Israel in "administrative detention"? How is that situation different? What was the "crime" of Dr. Al-Bursch, the orthopedic surgeon who was abducted from Gaza and tortured (very likely raped) to death in Israel's notorious Ofer prison? What was the crime of Mosab Abu Toha, the Palestinian poet who was abducted from Gaza and abused by the IDF? He was released only after the U.S. State Dept. got involved. What is the crime of the hundreds of other Gazan men (and sometimes women and children) "disappeared" by the IDF? We have video of Palestinian men being stripped and brutally abused. How is this any different from taking hostages? It is in fact taking hostages. Why is the attitude of so many Israelis toward Palestinian detainees as I described above (that they should be beaten, raped, and/or executed), while they expect an entirely different standard of care for their own detainees? What is the difference between a "hostage" and a "detainee" held in Israel without charges or access to the legal system? And if taking 251 hostages from Israel justifies razing Gaza to the ground and killing tens of thousands of innocent people, why does not holding thousands of hostages (or detainees) in Israel, as was the case before 10/7, not justify 10/7? Only a racist supporter of apartheid could think Israel's abuses are perfectly acceptable but Hamas' are not. Of course, both are wrong, but Israel's violation of human rights have been far more extensive than Hamas' and have caused far more suffering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Nice way to explain apartheid!

Not the poster you are responding to, but there is no apartheid in Israel. Jews, Druze, beduin and Muslims have equal rights. If you mean all the checkpoints for those from Gaza it is because before all that security there were more terrorist attacks. Sadly Palestinians with good intentions suffer due to the actions of those who are a threat.

This is not true. Israel only deigns to allow Arab Israelis to vote because they are in the minority and can't make any major changes to the running of the theocratic state. Let's not forget that Palestinians were reduced to a minority through ethnic cleansing. During the Nakba, 750,000 Palestinians were evicted from what is now Israel, 15,000 were exterminated, and only 150,000 were allowed to remain. This is tokenism intended to whitewash the racist nature of Israel's government.

Further, Jews anywhere in the world may immigrate to Israel and be granted Israeli citizenship, but Palestinians cannot do the same-not even those forcibly evicted from Israel during and after the Nakba. They have never been compensated for the loss of their homes, possessions, and loved ones. This conduct places Israel in clear violation of UN Resolution 194.

Residents of Gaza and the WB who marry Arab Israelis normally cannot reside in Israel.

Arab Israelis face many barriers to land ownership through land laws that don't apply to Jewish Israelis.

Arab Israelis face discrimination within the Israeli court system. Just last year, the Israeli parliament passed a law allowing penalties for sexual crimes to be doubled if the perpetrator is Palestinian if the motive is deemed to be "nationalistic." This stands in sharp contrast to the number of Israelis who think it is acceptable to rape Palestinian prisoners. A journalist named Yehuda Schlesinger recently argued that it should be a "regulated policy of the state to abuse the (Palestinian) detainees" because "they deserve it, and it is great revenge that we need to give them.” Rabbi Meir Mazuz, apparently a confidante of Netanyahu, recently blessed an Israeli soldier accused of raping a Palestinian prisoner. Mazuz said to the soldier, "'What did you do? Beat the enemy? So what?" and added, "Don’t we have the right to act like this?" Ben-Gvir has called for executing Palestinian detainees by shooting them in the head to relieve overcrowding in prisons and save on food costs.

Israeli government officials and community leaders consistently dehumanize Palestinians. A journalist named Yehuda Schlesinger recently argued that it should be a "regulated policy of the state to abuse the (Palestinian) detainees" because "they deserve it, and it is great revenge that we need to give them.” Rabbi Meir Mazuz, apparently a confidante of Netanyahu, recently blessed an Israeli soldier accused of raping a Palestinian prisoner. Mazuz said to the soldier, "'What did you do? Beat the enemy? So what?" and added, "Don’t we have the right to act like this?" Ben-Gvir has called for executing Palestinian detainees by shooting them in the head to relieve overcrowding in prisons and save on food costs. In general, these extremely racist and offensive statements are not publicly condemned.

If you still believe there is "no apartheid in Israel," perhaps you should consider how unaware of itself privilege really is.

Ypseph Haddad an actual Arab Israeli has written and spoken extensively about why they claim of apartheid is a myth.

Invoking the opinion of one person does not begin to address any of the points made above or why Arab Israelis are a minority (hint: the majority of Arabs within the borders of what is now Israel were ethnically cleansed). You can't sugar coat the Nakba. Most of those who would be Arab Israelis today were evicted or exterminated and are thus not around to be Arab Israelis who could comment on apartheid. Tens of thousands of Arab Israelis recently protested Israel's "nation-state law," which says only Jews have the right to self-determination in Israel. They have proposed that July 19 be declared an annual International Israel Apartheid Day. Israel's policies in the West Bank allow settlers to steal the lands and homes of Palestinians and abuse them, often in full view of the IDF and in direct violation of international law. A UN special committee has found Israel's conduct in Gaza "consistent with genocide." You really don't want to be an apologist for Israel's racism and apartheid if you want to stay on the right side of history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Well said. They rarely bring up the hostages, but yes the terrorists are wholly to blame.

Of course, taking hostages is always wrong and the hostages should be released, but what about the thousands of detainees held in Israel in "administrative detention"? How is that situation different? What was the "crime" of Dr. Al-Bursch, the orthopedic surgeon who was abducted from Gaza and tortured (very likely raped) to death in Israel's notorious Ofer prison? What was the crime of Mosab Abu Toha, the Palestinian poet who was abducted from Gaza and abused by the IDF? He was released only after the U.S. State Dept. got involved. What is the crime of the hundreds of other Gazan men (and sometimes women and children) "disappeared" by the IDF? We have video of Palestinian men being stripped and brutally abused. How is this any different from taking hostages? It is in fact taking hostages. Why is the attitude of so many Israelis toward Palestinian detainees as I described above (that they should be beaten, raped, and/or executed), while they expect an entirely different standard of care for their own detainees? What is the difference between a "hostage" and a "detainee" held in Israel without charges or access to the legal system? And if taking 251 hostages from Israel justifies razing Gaza to the ground and killing tens of thousands of innocent people, why does not holding thousands of hostages (or detainees) in Israel, as was the case before 10/7, not justify 10/7? Only a racist supporter of apartheid could think Israel's abuses are perfectly acceptable but Hamas' are not. Of course, both are wrong, but Israel's violation of human rights have been far more extensive than Hamas' and have caused far more suffering.

Rape or torture on either side is wrong, no disagreeing there. Hamas is far more extensive, not even going to argue that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Well said. They rarely bring up the hostages, but yes the terrorists are wholly to blame.

This is absolutely on the terrorists exclusively. They initiated and continue the current conflict, they deliberately hide among and under civilians, they committed unspeakable atrocities, and they continue to hold hostages. Wrong-headed arguments about apartheid, Palestiniain displacement post Resolution 181, and wailing about current civilian Palestinian casualties cannot change those facts. If the terrorists surrendered and released their hostages there would be no further civilian casualties, but where are the pro-Palestinian appeals for such actions? There are none - it's all about how bad the Israelis are for responding decisively to terror.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite all the pro-Hamas posting in this thread, the reality is that Israel is a modern first-world democracy with a modern military, engaged in defensive action to preserve itself. That may mean the creation of buffer zones, and changing borders. The terrorists who initiated attacks, no matter what their grievances, are wholly to blame for the outcomes people so loudly declaim here, usually with factually incorrect and completely fabricated assertions about the relative behaviors of the combatants.

Well said. They rarely bring up the hostages, but yes the terrorists are wholly to blame.

This is absolutely on the terrorists exclusively. They initiated and continue the current conflict, they deliberately hide among and under civilians, they committed unspeakable atrocities, and they continue to hold hostages. Wrong-headed arguments about apartheid, Palestiniain displacement post Resolution 181, and wailing about current civilian Palestinian casualties cannot change those facts. If the terrorists surrendered and released their hostages there would be no further civilian casualties, but where are the pro-Palestinian appeals for such actions? There are none - it's all about how bad the Israelis are for responding decisively to terror.

Exactly. Therefore they have to root out and eliminate Hamas. Can't put out part of a fire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Netanyahu is almost the Yasser Arafat of Israel. Someone corrupt and only concerned with their political survival and popularity and filling their bank account up and nothing else. He’s failed

True. But you have to ask why did Hamas and all their supporters in Gaza choose to invade Israel and commit all those atrocities knowing that amoral scum like Netanyahu would obliterate Gaza if given a chance? This is the most right wing government in the history of Israel. Hamas chose to kill 1200 innocent civilians knowing very well that this government in particular would absolutely destroy both Gaza and any hopes for a Palestinian state in anyone's lifetime. It's bizarre to me why Palestinians in Gaza chose this course of action at this moment in time. But Palestinians making terrible decisions from 1947 onwards is to be expected. It's a pity.

Similarly my question is why did the Israelis vote in Netanyahu knowing they would have a very right wing government that would even work towards ending press freedom and choose a policy of genocide that is vile enough for the UN to issue a warrant of arrest for war crimes.
Knowing full well that such actions are a war crime and a crime against humanity.
It’s bizarre to me that Israelis chose this course of action at this time making terrible decisions from 1947 onwards
It’s a pity

[Anonymous]

Israel has suspended administrative detention for Jews but it will continue to be allowed for Palestinians AKA another example of apartheid. Israelis cry about the hostages but then completely ignore the 10,000 Plus Palestinian hostages and children in administrative detention.