School residency cheaters investigated

[Anonymous]

You do realize, don't you, that I'm not one of the reporters? It seems you take glee in posting about all the personal details you've managed to dig up on him. But I really don't care about your efforts to drag his private life into this.

Indeed, I'm all for publishing in the news a full list of all people who have unpaid traffic tickets in DC. They're all short-changing our city - just like the DCPS residency cheaters - so let's hold them all accountable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Declaring.

You want to do a story on residency fraud? Grow a set of balls and do a real story. The daily caller's is not.

1. Driving a car with Maryland plates.
2. Living in a house in Maryland.
3. Working in Maryland.
4. Declaring a Maryland address in court papers 1999-2013.

What was the evidence of DC residency again?

The evidence they presented to the school, in the year 2016. Evidence that you, despite digging through this woman's exes trash, are not privy to see. Because it is none of your damn business.

Did you show her proof of address in 2016? Nope. Are DC residents not allowed to work in Maryland? Are children not allowed to have parents with different residences?

And while we're wondering, I'm touched that living in Virginia, a state with almost no tax burden for its residents, you still care so deeply about my taxes. Not enough, mind you, to move into the district where you work... or pay your own traffic tickets, but still.

Fraudsters do wax indignant, don't they. Defensive, too.

NP here: this is exactly the kind of residency fraud apologizing that I was talking about on the previous page of this thread. They are quick and harsh to call those who question OSSE's effectiveness "nosey," "unhinged," and any other manner of put downs. It really does make me wonder if this is MUCH more widespread than we can imagine.

Look, the mother profiled in yesterday's article is a residency cheater. Straight up. The preponderance of evidence supports the claim.

That is not residency fraud "apologizing." Unlike these reporters, I have children, live in DC, and pay taxes there. As for this woman, I have no idea. But what I have seen from their (your) evidence proves nothing. Nada. The reporters cobbled together a piecemeal story based on demonizing one specific family. They loaded it up with details, like a bankruptcy and her driving an Acura, which, much like Mr rosniak's hypertension and family history of cancer, have nothing to do with this case, or any other case of residence fraud.

An interesting story based not on libel, but on facts, would be how both Mr rosniak and the driver of this Maryland plated car don't think they should pay DC traffic tickets. Daily caller reporter and suspected residency cheater: both united in their civic disregard for traffic regulations.

Hmm. Could it be that another fraudster has inadvertently unmasked herself? I would think that most people referring to their home city would say "I...live in DC and pay taxes here" -- not "there."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Declaring.

You want to do a story on residency fraud? Grow a set of balls and do a real story. The daily caller's is not.

1. Driving a car with Maryland plates.
2. Living in a house in Maryland.
3. Working in Maryland.
4. Declaring a Maryland address in court papers 1999-2013.

What was the evidence of DC residency again?

The evidence they presented to the school, in the year 2016. Evidence that you, despite digging through this woman's exes trash, are not privy to see. Because it is none of your damn business.

Did you show her proof of address in 2016? Nope. Are DC residents not allowed to work in Maryland? Are children not allowed to have parents with different residences?

And while we're wondering, I'm touched that living in Virginia, a state with almost no tax burden for its residents, you still care so deeply about my taxes. Not enough, mind you, to move into the district where you work... or pay your own traffic tickets, but still.

Fraudsters do wax indignant, don't they. Defensive, too.

NP here: this is exactly the kind of residency fraud apologizing that I was talking about on the previous page of this thread. They are quick and harsh to call those who question OSSE's effectiveness "nosey," "unhinged," and any other manner of put downs. It really does make me wonder if this is MUCH more widespread than we can imagine.

Look, the mother profiled in yesterday's article is a residency cheater. Straight up. The preponderance of evidence supports the claim.

That is not residency fraud "apologizing." Unlike these reporters, I have children, live in DC, and pay taxes there. As for this woman, I have no idea. But what I have seen from their (your) evidence proves nothing. Nada. The reporters cobbled together a piecemeal story based on demonizing one specific family. They loaded it up with details, like a bankruptcy and her driving an Acura, which, much like Mr rosniak's hypertension and family history of cancer, have nothing to do with this case, or any other case of residence fraud.

An interesting story based not on libel, but on facts, would be how both Mr rosniak and the driver of this Maryland plated car don't think they should pay DC traffic tickets. Daily caller reporter and suspected residency cheater: both united in their civic disregard for traffic regulations.

Hmm. Could it be that another fraudster has inadvertently unmasked herself? I would think that most people referring to their home city would say "I...live in DC and pay taxes here" -- not "there."

If you work for the Daily Caller, indeed: using "there," instead of "here" is definitely grounds for a conviction, sure. Personally, I think you're grasping at tiny little straws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't parents report the parents who are cheating? Why would you let it go that half the damn class is from maryland? I don't understand. I mean, I'd be more inclined to let it go if the kid was under privileged, but the handful of people I suspect are cheating are able to do so because they are rich and own more than one property.

Because the poster is lying. If you have seen the PK3 classes at LT you would know that half of the class isn't 50% AA. It is more like 30%. The PKs at LT are overwhelming white and in-boundary families.

Ouch, you wrote what I was actually thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think the DC Coucil will engage on this and follow through with requiring the OSSE and DCPS to feret out those parents enrolling students from outside the district? Is this really considered felony fraud as was stated in one of the articles? If so, why no jail time? Why aren't wages garnished for those found guilty?

Because when it was done before in some other state, there was a national outcry of injustice and the poor being penalized twice. You cannot get blood from a stone or money from an indigent/bankrupt person. I think if you really want to get at enforcement, D.C. needs to start charging the MD jurisdictions for the cost of educating their residents. That way it is guaranteed money and then there is an incentive for MD to do some enforcement.

that's stupid, the poor aren't driving escalades , Acuras and Infinits and we all know how much they pay union workers in metro and federal contractors. These people are probably making 180k a year and living it up in a $500k pg mcmansion

Weren't people saying they dug into all the lawsuits of that one woman in the Caller and that she filed for bankruptcy? As an enforcement mechanism, it is better to go after the deeper pockets. Force MD jurisdictions to pay D.C. for educating their residents and force them to pay the costs of enforcement. Maybe MD will argue that they pay the costs in speed and red light camera fines.

And ambulance service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS is a DC agency - can't they check against the other databases instead of relying solely on what could be fraudulent pay stubs and other documentation? They should have cross-agency access to TANF, SNAP, the DC Office of Tax, etc. It seems like the verification information is already at their fingertips and that they could just work with the other agencies to get that information quite easily.

This thread has blown this into a race issue and it's not. It's a DCPS prioritizing MD (or VA) cheaters over DC taxpayers issue. Especially in the case of charter schools, DCPS is literally allowing MD students to take spaces away from DC students. What makes the MD cheaters more entitled than the DC kids who also may face socioeconomic challenges? Why should any DC taxpayer have to pay another 1-2 full years of daycare because they can't get into a PK-3 or PK-4 spot that's given to a non-taxpaying family who is legally ineligible to take that spot? This is not a moral issue, it is a legal and financial issue. If I already pay tons of taxes for the schools and then I have to pay $20k+ for daycare because I can't get into the schools, damn that will make me mad. And some people can't afford great daycare - those kids risk being in another year of a bad situation because they can't get into their school. And many needy DC kids are being robbed of an opportunity to attend a charter school that's better than their neighborhood school because cheaters have taken their spots. I just can't understand the people who are defending this - it's stealing money from our pockets and from the programs that support DC students, including those with special needs and other challenges.

People are unhappy with the tactics used, but this has been going on forever with NO CONSEQUENCES and no concern on behalf of DCPS. So another approach was needed. Relying on officials to handle this wasn't going to change any of the results, so people have taken another tack. Focusing on the tactic is a distraction from the fact that the ultimate problem is the endemic practice of stealing money and educational opportunities from DC kids (and parents) and giving to MD kids (and parents).

Nope. This thread follow the direction of the crappy reporting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there's been absolutely no credible evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that this is some kind of severe issue within the scope of issues facing DC and DC schools. just anonymous DCUM posters and busy bodies counting MD license plates. on the other hand, we have plenty of reason to believe that the Daily Caller "investigation" is a hack job or worse to further their own anti-federal/anti-"liberal" agenda.

Personally, I think it's just the opposite. Lots of credible evidence there is lots of residency fraud occurring, and that it's been going on for year. In addition to this recent Daily Caller series and all the details it provides, there have been several similar reports from the Washington Post and other sources. By contrast, there's zero evidence of the Daily Caller investigation being a "hack job," and just lots of insults posted here from people who are likely residency cheaters themselves.

This statement is so trite. Come up with something original as a retort. You knew as you were typing that stupid unremarkable statement that not even you believed it. Stop being stupid and lazy of thought and come up with something original.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People's obsession with residency fraud is a great example of the availability bias at work ...

Listen up. Eradicating residency fraud will save a few bucks and may make some people feel better. But it will NOT:

- Guarantee that you don't get "shut out" of your PK3 choice
- Make any of the schools that still have PK3 slots any more acceptable to you
- Make it any more likely that you will keep your child all the way through 5th grade in many of the neighborhoods where people complain about PK3 slots
- Solve the terrible achievement gap still present in DC
- Explain why UMC kids get CMI, but low SES kids get Rocketship
- Provide a good middle school on Capitol Hill
- Provide a good high school on Capitol Hill
- Solves overcrowding at Deal and makes Hardy a more viable option
- Modernize all the schools that desperately need it
- Create a gifted and talented program that serves everyone and strengthens neighborhood schools overall
- Ensures that disabled kids actually get their needs met at DCPS and charters
- Meets all the demand for bilingual education
- Gives all students the amount of recess and outdoor time necessary for their healthy development
- or any of the other zillion problems discussed here on a daily basis

It might not do those things. But I pay a shitload in DC taxes. I pay a premium to live in this city and I don't get premium services for this privilege. (though I do get a shorter commute and for the most part a city that has worked fairly well for me - I'm not one to complain too much about the city).

It does bother me that people in MD put their kids in DC schools. DCPS has made great strides, but there are still lots of problems. And charters operate with all sorts of problems, too. There are real issues of space allocations across sectors, of renovating underperforming and under enrolled schools, and poor education of vulnerable children. Maryland is a relatively wealthy state that does well on almost all societal markers.

I'd like DC to operate in a more efficient, effective manner. And that means kicking out what truly does seem to be a relatively high percentage of residency fraudsters. I'm not someone who believes in any way that people on public assistance should be forced to take drug tests or anything. I think that's a waste of resources. But here in DC, with schools with long waiting lists, with schools that are underperforming, with a tight city budget, with massive problems providing special education services, etc etc etc - I cannot stand the thought of a relatively wealthy neighboring state offloading hundreds of kids off their rolls and onto ours.

I think this is a big problem and I think it has to stop.

+1

Those are exactly my feelings as well. I pay a lot in taxes, don't use much in terms of city services, and it galls me to no end that people from outside jurisdictions are using up badly needed DC dollars. The pre-K waitlists are a very real cost for DC parents who get waitlisted. That's $25K+ per year they need to spend in childcare costs.

I can't believe all the people who are apologists for residency cheating. Perhaps this just indicates how deep and ingrained the problem truly is? It may be on a scale that we can't even imagine.

1 year of prek childcare costs is easily a down payment on a first home, something that people claim helps to stabilize communities.

As a DC taxpayer, I am not especially interested in scarce DC funds being used to stabilize Upper Marlboro and other PG communities.

How about Silver Spring communities?

[Anonymous]

There's the evidence that the daily caller article does not use actual numbers
They counted a thousand cars, rosniak said it was the hardest he'd ever worked, but they don't actually provide a number of cars with MD plates, vs VA plates, vs DC plates. Nor do they mention, specifically, which schools they polled, except for excel. They also do not mention a specific time period, although I think at one point they wave their hands and say "months." They worked on this for months, people. It was like, hard and stuff.

I have to assume the daily caller fact checker is actually more of a libel expert. I can imagine him or her going through their article with red pen and saying , "you have to be more vague because that wasn't legal; or verifiable. But if you want to imply that this woman might still live in Maryland..." etc.

Rosniak and Watson mention, vaguely, "some other schools." They mention others "along the borders." They mention one specific family, but fail to prove where the woman actually lives in 2016. Instead they rely entirely on unfounded and vague accusations.

Look, I'm not the poster with a journalism degree who said this is bad journalism. It just so obviously is. Then there's the lovely part where they assume that all Maryland plates are evidence of cheating, and that anyone who doesn't talk to them is obviously guilty. Can anyone who had bothered to Google rosniak, a man with the charm and face of a hamster, honestly say they'd respond well to his interrogatory techniques after he trailed them--or their babysitter? Do you think Watson has more charm? Generally speaking, when someone follows you in their car, pulls up behind you and demands your address, how do you respond?

And finally, when confronted with their lack of factual evidence, these Yahoos or their sock puppet interns come up with the same gems over and over again: it's true! Anyone who disagrees is a cheater! This is costing the taxpayers.

Even Byron and cindy, were i writing them and making all of the facts up completely from scratch, could come up with more convincing ones to "prove" the same points.

[Anonymous]

And I will do that tomorrow, if this waste of a thread doesn't vanish into the ether.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People's obsession with residency fraud is a great example of the availability bias at work ...

Listen up. Eradicating residency fraud will save a few bucks and may make some people feel better. But it will NOT:

- Guarantee that you don't get "shut out" of your PK3 choice
- Make any of the schools that still have PK3 slots any more acceptable to you
- Make it any more likely that you will keep your child all the way through 5th grade in many of the neighborhoods where people complain about PK3 slots
- Solve the terrible achievement gap still present in DC
- Explain why UMC kids get CMI, but low SES kids get Rocketship
- Provide a good middle school on Capitol Hill
- Provide a good high school on Capitol Hill
- Solves overcrowding at Deal and makes Hardy a more viable option
- Modernize all the schools that desperately need it
- Create a gifted and talented program that serves everyone and strengthens neighborhood schools overall
- Ensures that disabled kids actually get their needs met at DCPS and charters
- Meets all the demand for bilingual education
- Gives all students the amount of recess and outdoor time necessary for their healthy development
- or any of the other zillion problems discussed here on a daily basis

It might not do those things. But I pay a shitload in DC taxes. I pay a premium to live in this city and I don't get premium services for this privilege. (though I do get a shorter commute and for the most part a city that has worked fairly well for me - I'm not one to complain too much about the city).

It does bother me that people in MD put their kids in DC schools. DCPS has made great strides, but there are still lots of problems. And charters operate with all sorts of problems, too. There are real issues of space allocations across sectors, of renovating underperforming and under enrolled schools, and poor education of vulnerable children. Maryland is a relatively wealthy state that does well on almost all societal markers.

I'd like DC to operate in a more efficient, effective manner. And that means kicking out what truly does seem to be a relatively high percentage of residency fraudsters. I'm not someone who believes in any way that people on public assistance should be forced to take drug tests or anything. I think that's a waste of resources. But here in DC, with schools with long waiting lists, with schools that are underperforming, with a tight city budget, with massive problems providing special education services, etc etc etc - I cannot stand the thought of a relatively wealthy neighboring state offloading hundreds of kids off their rolls and onto ours.

I think this is a big problem and I think it has to stop.

+1

Those are exactly my feelings as well. I pay a lot in taxes, don't use much in terms of city services, and it galls me to no end that people from outside jurisdictions are using up badly needed DC dollars. The pre-K waitlists are a very real cost for DC parents who get waitlisted. That's $25K+ per year they need to spend in childcare costs.

I can't believe all the people who are apologists for residency cheating. Perhaps this just indicates how deep and ingrained the problem truly is? It may be on a scale that we can't even imagine.

1 year of prek childcare costs is easily a down payment on a first home, something that people claim helps to stabilize communities.

As a DC taxpayer, I am not especially interested in scarce DC funds being used to stabilize Upper Marlboro and other PG communities.

How about Silver Spring communities?

Wherever. MoCo or PeeGee, no difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's the evidence that the daily caller article does not use actual numbers
They counted a thousand cars, rosniak said it was the hardest he'd ever worked, but they don't actually provide a number of cars with MD plates, vs VA plates, vs DC plates. Nor do they mention, specifically, which schools they polled, except for excel. They also do not mention a specific time period, although I think at one point they wave their hands and say "months." They worked on this for months, people. It was like, hard and stuff.

I have to assume the daily caller fact checker is actually more of a libel expert. I can imagine him or her going through their article with red pen and saying , "you have to be more vague because that wasn't legal; or verifiable. But if you want to imply that this woman might still live in Maryland..." etc.

Rosniak and Watson mention, vaguely, "some other schools." They mention others "along the borders." They mention one specific family, but fail to prove where the woman actually lives in 2016. Instead they rely entirely on unfounded and vague accusations.

Look, I'm not the poster with a journalism degree who said this is bad journalism. It just so obviously is. Then there's the lovely part where they assume that all Maryland plates are evidence of cheating, and that anyone who doesn't talk to them is obviously guilty. Can anyone who had bothered to Google rosniak, a man with the charm and face of a hamster, honestly say they'd respond well to his interrogatory techniques after he trailed them--or their babysitter? Do you think Watson has more charm? Generally speaking, when someone follows you in their car, pulls up behind you and demands your address, how do you respond?

And finally, when confronted with their lack of factual evidence, these Yahoos or their sock puppet interns come up with the same gems over and over again: it's true! Anyone who disagrees is a cheater! This is costing the taxpayers.

Even Byron and cindy, were i writing them and making all of the facts up completely from scratch, could come up with more convincing ones to "prove" the same points.

Haha! Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't you think lots of the pro-cheater posters would be singing a different tune if the cheater profiled had been a wealthy two-lawyer family from Bethesda?

Maybe maybe not but there is most likely not one real world example of that happening. I can't fathom why a two lawyer family who paid DC prices to not live in DC would lie to send their kids to the system which is most likely why they refused to live there in the first place. Even the thought of some rag tag subsidized child care seams beneath them even if allowed in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS is a DC agency - can't they check against the other databases instead of relying solely on what could be fraudulent pay stubs and other documentation? They should have cross-agency access to TANF, SNAP, the DC Office of Tax, etc. It seems like the verification information is already at their fingertips and that they could just work with the other agencies to get that information quite easily.

Exactly! There should be the auto-verify tract through the DC agencies (tax, social services, welfare, foster homes) and then a "complicated case" track for why someone does not show up in any of DC's government systems.

+1 absolutely. start with the cross-check. That would help eliminate 90% of families needing to supply any documentation at all. Most would be fine with the cross-check for property taxes, income taxes, TANF, etc. Those who aren't can then provide the other forms of residency verification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People's obsession with residency fraud is a great example of the availability bias at work ...

Listen up. Eradicating residency fraud will save a few bucks and may make some people feel better. But it will NOT:

- Guarantee that you don't get "shut out" of your PK3 choice
- Make any of the schools that still have PK3 slots any more acceptable to you
- Make it any more likely that you will keep your child all the way through 5th grade in many of the neighborhoods where people complain about PK3 slots
- Solve the terrible achievement gap still present in DC
- Explain why UMC kids get CMI, but low SES kids get Rocketship
- Provide a good middle school on Capitol Hill
- Provide a good high school on Capitol Hill
- Solves overcrowding at Deal and makes Hardy a more viable option
- Modernize all the schools that desperately need it
- Create a gifted and talented program that serves everyone and strengthens neighborhood schools overall
- Ensures that disabled kids actually get their needs met at DCPS and charters
- Meets all the demand for bilingual education
- Gives all students the amount of recess and outdoor time necessary for their healthy development
- or any of the other zillion problems discussed here on a daily basis

It might not do those things. But I pay a shitload in DC taxes. I pay a premium to live in this city and I don't get premium services for this privilege. (though I do get a shorter commute and for the most part a city that has worked fairly well for me - I'm not one to complain too much about the city).

It does bother me that people in MD put their kids in DC schools. DCPS has made great strides, but there are still lots of problems. And charters operate with all sorts of problems, too. There are real issues of space allocations across sectors, of renovating underperforming and under enrolled schools, and poor education of vulnerable children. Maryland is a relatively wealthy state that does well on almost all societal markers.

I'd like DC to operate in a more efficient, effective manner. And that means kicking out what truly does seem to be a relatively high percentage of residency fraudsters. I'm not someone who believes in any way that people on public assistance should be forced to take drug tests or anything. I think that's a waste of resources. But here in DC, with schools with long waiting lists, with schools that are underperforming, with a tight city budget, with massive problems providing special education services, etc etc etc - I cannot stand the thought of a relatively wealthy neighboring state offloading hundreds of kids off their rolls and onto ours.

I think this is a big problem and I think it has to stop.

+1

Those are exactly my feelings as well. I pay a lot in taxes, don't use much in terms of city services, and it galls me to no end that people from outside jurisdictions are using up badly needed DC dollars. The pre-K waitlists are a very real cost for DC parents who get waitlisted. That's $25K+ per year they need to spend in childcare costs.

I can't believe all the people who are apologists for residency cheating. Perhaps this just indicates how deep and ingrained the problem truly is? It may be on a scale that we can't even imagine.

1 year of prek childcare costs is easily a down payment on a first home, something that people claim helps to stabilize communities.

As a DC taxpayer, I am not especially interested in scarce DC funds being used to stabilize Upper Marlboro and other PG communities.

How about Silver Spring communities?

Wherever. MoCo or PeeGee, no difference.

Well your original statement was very limiting in jurisdiction and telling of your true thoughts.