Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.
I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.
I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.
See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.
I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).
I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).
But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.
If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.
Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.
But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.
They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?
Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?
Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.
Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?
You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.
Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?
The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.
So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.
So choose wisely.
I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.
Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.
but sure, "both sides"
that's teach the dems.
If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.
I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.
Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.
Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits
I could go on.
Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?
Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.
The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.
The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.
NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!
Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.
We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.
Pick one.
I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.
Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.
Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.
His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago
I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.
Life is full of difficult choices.
This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.
At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.
You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.
If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.
There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.
Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.
Being under indictment is not cause for not being on the ballot. Trump will be the GOP nominee, short of death. So your choice is Trump or whatever Dem, including Biden, is on the ticket against him.
If Biden wants the votes he needs to make a positive case. A bunch of screeching people saying not committing to a Biden vote a year before the election is akin to a Trump vote is hysteria. Earn the votes! Go do some real outreach in Michigan! Act like workers matter! Act like you learned anything from 2016.
Biden has been to Michigan at least 6 times since taking office. How much more "outreach" do you expect of him there?
A whole lot more to the Muslim community he’s presently alienating and cannot win without.
Muslims are 1 percent of the US population. And they are certainly not finding a happy home in the Republican Party. Supporting Hamas is not a winning issue for either party. The vast, vast majority of Americans - on all sides - are appalled by what happened on 10/7 and will support Israel as they counter it. It's the hard right and the far left that are pro-Hamas. Elections won't be won or lost in that space.
According to Pew, more Dems support Palestine over Israel. The current protests against Israel defending itself are all by the left wing of the party. Biden (rightly) has committed America to unwavering support of Israel and the IDF. Israel has taken an extremely methodical approach to fighting the war and destroying Hamas. Meaning this will be a months long operation. Biden needs to be worried about losing a significant portion of his base-the far left.
All he can do is try to work out deals with the Arab states and continue to isolate Hamas as distinct from Palestinians. Short of that, what else can anyone expect?
Well according to the left wing of the party they want him to do a whole lot more. Like demanding an immediate ceasefire, cutting off all support to Israel, working with the UN to send in a ground force to separate the two sides, etc.
Most Americans are in favor of strong support to Israel and arming the IDF to prosecute the war. The problem for Biden is that a not small portion of the Democrat progressive base is furious with the administration for its strong support of Israel.
Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.
I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.
I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.
See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.
I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).
I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).
But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.
If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.
Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.
But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.
They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?
Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?
Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.
Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?
You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.
Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?
The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.
So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.
So choose wisely.
I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.
Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.
but sure, "both sides"
that's teach the dems.
If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.
I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.
Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.
Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits
I could go on.
Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?
Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.
The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.
The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.
NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!
Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.
We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.
Pick one.
I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.
Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.
Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.
His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago
I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.
Life is full of difficult choices.
This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.
At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.
You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.
If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.
They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.
If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.
Yes! I don’t care about the two party system. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils. It is my freedom to vote for whoever I want to vote for and that can be a write in candidate. All those disgusted by Biden and Trump need to unite and vote for a third party or write in a candidate. Our votes are not for sale. You want us to vote for you…give us a reason to instead of just saying I’m not the other candidate. And all those saying if you don’t vote for Biden, Trump gets elected. Well make your candidate more electable….not our problem.
No one is telling you you can't vote for whomever you wish.
However, it is reality that the US is a two party system, and that voting third party is a wasted vote. You can believe it is a protest vote, or that you actually prefer RFK or Cornell West or Jill Stein or whatever, but the fact is, its a wasted vote.
It is true that just a small amount of votes going to a 3rd party can make a difference in a close election but I disagree with the notion that any vote that doesn't go to an R or D candidate is a wasted vote. If 3rd party candidates had received 10%, 15%, 20% of the total votes, the leadership in the R and D parties would have had incentive to improve the quality of their candidate pool ahead of the next election cycle. With over 98% of the total votes cast in 2020 going to Trump and Biden, the RNC and DNC were effectively rewarded for the products they put in front of the American people even though their candidates were historically unpopular with the American public. With no threat to their power and very few undecided or 3rd party votes to earn, why would they do anything differently? No legitimate threat to Trump in the 2024 primary as if he is FDR and no contingency plan to replace Biden should he need to be replaced due to health concerns or dangerously low approval ratings- this is what happens when parties that shouldn't be complacent, are complacent. If 3rd parties had received more than 10% of the votes in 2020 or voter turnout had been significantly lower than in 2016, you can bet that a Trump vs Biden 2024 rematch wouldn't be as inevitable as it is appears to be today.
The bolded is simply wishful thinking. All you are doing is diluting the victory for the party that wins. They don't, and particularly the GOP, care about wasted votes on third party candidates. They ran Jill Stein as a "green" to take away support from Clinton. They ran Sinema as a "green" and she became an independent. They are doing the same now with Cornell West and RFK. All you are doing is buying into their "third party protest" tripe.
Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.
I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.
I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.
See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.
I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).
I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).
But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.
If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.
Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.
But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.
They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?
Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?
Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.
Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?
You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.
Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?
The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.
So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.
So choose wisely.
I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.
Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.
but sure, "both sides"
that's teach the dems.
If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.
I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.
Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.
Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits
I could go on.
Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?
Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.
The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.
The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.
NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!
Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.
We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.
Pick one.
I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.
Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.
Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.
His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago
I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.
Life is full of difficult choices.
This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.
At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.
You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.
If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.
There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.
Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.
It is time for democrats to understand that the more indictment they bring, the more popular Trump will be. It is like Hillary calling the voters deplorable. The more she used the word, the more votes she was losing. Same thing with indictments. Why our party cannot see the big picture?
"the democrats" are not bringing indictments. Indictments happen because grand juries, comprised of citizens, weigh evidence, and authorize the indictments.
Understand, the people testifying against trump are all republicans and Trump's inner circle. This is not a democrat versus republican thing, it is law versus lawlessness.
Anonymous wrote:Biden absolutely cannot win Michigan without the Arab-American vote. That group includes Muslims and Christians. Again, the red lights are flashing and Biden’s team is pulling a Robby Mook by looking at faulty data, rather than the talk and feel on the ground. Supporting the UAW can only get Biden so far in the Great Lakes state. He needs to change his tune asap.
He supports Israel as a country. He supports Palestinians as a people. He opposes Hamas. That is his message. What else would you have him do or say?
Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.
I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.
I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.
See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.
I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).
I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).
But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.
If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.
Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.
But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.
They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?
Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?
Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.
Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?
You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.
Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?
The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.
So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.
So choose wisely.
I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.
Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.
but sure, "both sides"
that's teach the dems.
If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.
I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.
Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.
Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits
I could go on.
Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?
Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.
The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.
The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.
NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!
Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.
We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.
Pick one.
I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.
Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.
Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.
His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago
I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.
Life is full of difficult choices.
This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.
At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.
You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.
If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.
There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.
Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.
Being under indictment is not cause for not being on the ballot. Trump will be the GOP nominee, short of death. So your choice is Trump or whatever Dem, including Biden, is on the ticket against him.
If Biden wants the votes he needs to make a positive case. A bunch of screeching people saying not committing to a Biden vote a year before the election is akin to a Trump vote is hysteria. Earn the votes! Go do some real outreach in Michigan! Act like workers matter! Act like you learned anything from 2016.
Biden has been to Michigan at least 6 times since taking office. How much more "outreach" do you expect of him there?
A whole lot more to the Muslim community he’s presently alienating and cannot win without.
Muslims are 1 percent of the US population. And they are certainly not finding a happy home in the Republican Party. Supporting Hamas is not a winning issue for either party. The vast, vast majority of Americans - on all sides - are appalled by what happened on 10/7 and will support Israel as they counter it. It's the hard right and the far left that are pro-Hamas. Elections won't be won or lost in that space.
According to Pew, more Dems support Palestine over Israel. The current protests against Israel defending itself are all by the left wing of the party. Biden (rightly) has committed America to unwavering support of Israel and the IDF. Israel has taken an extremely methodical approach to fighting the war and destroying Hamas. Meaning this will be a months long operation. Biden needs to be worried about losing a significant portion of his base-the far left.
All he can do is try to work out deals with the Arab states and continue to isolate Hamas as distinct from Palestinians. Short of that, what else can anyone expect?
Well according to the left wing of the party they want him to do a whole lot more. Like demanding an immediate ceasefire, cutting off all support to Israel, working with the UN to send in a ground force to separate the two sides, etc.
Most Americans are in favor of strong support to Israel and arming the IDF to prosecute the war. The problem for Biden is that a not small portion of the Democrat progressive base is furious with the administration for its strong support of Israel.
A ceasefire aids Hamas.
Hamas is waging a Jihad that would eliminate Israel all together. The US doesn't support that and this will not cut aid to Israel.
Sure, let's get UN troops into Gaza. I am sure there are all sorts of countries willing to send their sons and daughters there at this time.
Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.
I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.
I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.
See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.
I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).
I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).
But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.
If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.
Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.
But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.
They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?
Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?
Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.
Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?
You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.
Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?
The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.
So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.
So choose wisely.
I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.
Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.
but sure, "both sides"
that's teach the dems.
If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.
I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.
Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.
Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits
I could go on.
Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?
Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.
The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.
The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.
NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!
Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.
We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.
Pick one.
I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.
Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.
Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.
His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago
I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.
Life is full of difficult choices.
This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.
At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.
You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.
If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.
There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.
Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.
Being under indictment is not cause for not being on the ballot. Trump will be the GOP nominee, short of death. So your choice is Trump or whatever Dem, including Biden, is on the ticket against him.
If Biden wants the votes he needs to make a positive case. A bunch of screeching people saying not committing to a Biden vote a year before the election is akin to a Trump vote is hysteria. Earn the votes! Go do some real outreach in Michigan! Act like workers matter! Act like you learned anything from 2016.
Biden has been to Michigan at least 6 times since taking office. How much more "outreach" do you expect of him there?
A whole lot more to the Muslim community he’s presently alienating and cannot win without.
Muslims are 1 percent of the US population. And they are certainly not finding a happy home in the Republican Party. Supporting Hamas is not a winning issue for either party. The vast, vast majority of Americans - on all sides - are appalled by what happened on 10/7 and will support Israel as they counter it. It's the hard right and the far left that are pro-Hamas. Elections won't be won or lost in that space.
According to Pew, more Dems support Palestine over Israel. The current protests against Israel defending itself are all by the left wing of the party. Biden (rightly) has committed America to unwavering support of Israel and the IDF. Israel has taken an extremely methodical approach to fighting the war and destroying Hamas. Meaning this will be a months long operation. Biden needs to be worried about losing a significant portion of his base-the far left.
All he can do is try to work out deals with the Arab states and continue to isolate Hamas as distinct from Palestinians. Short of that, what else can anyone expect?
Well according to the left wing of the party they want him to do a whole lot more. Like demanding an immediate ceasefire, cutting off all support to Israel, working with the UN to send in a ground force to separate the two sides, etc.
Most Americans are in favor of strong support to Israel and arming the IDF to prosecute the war. The problem for Biden is that a not small portion of the Democrat progressive base is furious with the administration for its strong support of Israel.
A ceasefire aids Hamas.
Hamas is waging a Jihad that would eliminate Israel all together. The US doesn't support that and this will not cut aid to Israel.
Sure, let's get UN troops into Gaza. I am sure there are all sorts of countries willing to send their sons and daughters there at this time.
I don’t disagree with you at all. The left of the Democratic Party does disagree with Biden very much so on this issue.
Anonymous wrote:Biden absolutely cannot win Michigan without the Arab-American vote. That group includes Muslims and Christians. Again, the red lights are flashing and Biden’s team is pulling a Robby Mook by looking at faulty data, rather than the talk and feel on the ground. Supporting the UAW can only get Biden so far in the Great Lakes state. He needs to change his tune asap.
He supports Israel as a country. He supports Palestinians as a people. He opposes Hamas. That is his message. What else would you have him do or say?
He will have to deliver that message in person multiple times in the next few months.
Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.
I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.
I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.
See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.
I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).
I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).
But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.
If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.
Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.
But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.
They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?
Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?
Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.
Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?
You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.
Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?
The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.
So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.
So choose wisely.
I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.
Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.
but sure, "both sides"
that's teach the dems.
If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.
I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.
Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.
Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits
I could go on.
Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?
Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.
The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.
The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.
NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!
Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.
We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.
Pick one.
I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.
Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.
Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.
His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago
I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.
Life is full of difficult choices.
This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.
At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.
You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.
If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.
There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.
Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.
Being under indictment is not cause for not being on the ballot. Trump will be the GOP nominee, short of death. So your choice is Trump or whatever Dem, including Biden, is on the ticket against him.
If Biden wants the votes he needs to make a positive case. A bunch of screeching people saying not committing to a Biden vote a year before the election is akin to a Trump vote is hysteria. Earn the votes! Go do some real outreach in Michigan! Act like workers matter! Act like you learned anything from 2016.
Biden has been to Michigan at least 6 times since taking office. How much more "outreach" do you expect of him there?
A whole lot more to the Muslim community he’s presently alienating and cannot win without.
Muslims are 1 percent of the US population. And they are certainly not finding a happy home in the Republican Party. Supporting Hamas is not a winning issue for either party. The vast, vast majority of Americans - on all sides - are appalled by what happened on 10/7 and will support Israel as they counter it. It's the hard right and the far left that are pro-Hamas. Elections won't be won or lost in that space.
According to Pew, more Dems support Palestine over Israel. The current protests against Israel defending itself are all by the left wing of the party. Biden (rightly) has committed America to unwavering support of Israel and the IDF. Israel has taken an extremely methodical approach to fighting the war and destroying Hamas. Meaning this will be a months long operation. Biden needs to be worried about losing a significant portion of his base-the far left.
All he can do is try to work out deals with the Arab states and continue to isolate Hamas as distinct from Palestinians. Short of that, what else can anyone expect?
Well according to the left wing of the party they want him to do a whole lot more. Like demanding an immediate ceasefire, cutting off all support to Israel, working with the UN to send in a ground force to separate the two sides, etc.
Most Americans are in favor of strong support to Israel and arming the IDF to prosecute the war. The problem for Biden is that a not small portion of the Democrat progressive base is furious with the administration for its strong support of Israel.
What a fabrication! Most Americans want no arm shipment to Israel and a ceasefire.
Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.
I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.
I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.
See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.
I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).
I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).
But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.
If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.
Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.
But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.
They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?
Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?
Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.
Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?
You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.
Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?
The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.
So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.
So choose wisely.
I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.
Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.
but sure, "both sides"
that's teach the dems.
If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.
I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.
Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.
Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits
I could go on.
Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?
Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.
The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.
The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.
NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!
Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.
We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.
Pick one.
I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.
Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.
Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.
His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago
I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.
Life is full of difficult choices.
This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.
At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.
You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.
If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.
There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.
Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.
Being under indictment is not cause for not being on the ballot. Trump will be the GOP nominee, short of death. So your choice is Trump or whatever Dem, including Biden, is on the ticket against him.
If Biden wants the votes he needs to make a positive case. A bunch of screeching people saying not committing to a Biden vote a year before the election is akin to a Trump vote is hysteria. Earn the votes! Go do some real outreach in Michigan! Act like workers matter! Act like you learned anything from 2016.
Biden has been to Michigan at least 6 times since taking office. How much more "outreach" do you expect of him there?
A whole lot more to the Muslim community he’s presently alienating and cannot win without.
Muslims are 1 percent of the US population. And they are certainly not finding a happy home in the Republican Party. Supporting Hamas is not a winning issue for either party. The vast, vast majority of Americans - on all sides - are appalled by what happened on 10/7 and will support Israel as they counter it. It's the hard right and the far left that are pro-Hamas. Elections won't be won or lost in that space.
According to Pew, more Dems support Palestine over Israel. The current protests against Israel defending itself are all by the left wing of the party. Biden (rightly) has committed America to unwavering support of Israel and the IDF. Israel has taken an extremely methodical approach to fighting the war and destroying Hamas. Meaning this will be a months long operation. Biden needs to be worried about losing a significant portion of his base-the far left.
All he can do is try to work out deals with the Arab states and continue to isolate Hamas as distinct from Palestinians. Short of that, what else can anyone expect?
Well according to the left wing of the party they want him to do a whole lot more. Like demanding an immediate ceasefire, cutting off all support to Israel, working with the UN to send in a ground force to separate the two sides, etc.
Most Americans are in favor of strong support to Israel and arming the IDF to prosecute the war. The problem for Biden is that a not small portion of the Democrat progressive base is furious with the administration for its strong support of Israel.
What a fabrication! Most Americans want no arm shipment to Israel and a ceasefire.
DP. Who's fabricating?
In terms of specific policies, between 41 and 64 percent of Americans supported sending weapons and/or military aid to Israel, depending on which poll you look at (YouGov/The Economist, J.L. Partners/DailyMail.com or Quinnipiac). A consistent 28-29 percent opposed it in all three polls. Between 49 percent and 55 percent also supported sending financial aid to Israel in the first two polls, while only 21-27 percent opposed it. However, J.L. Partners found that Americans opposed sending U.S. troops to fight alongside Israel. Only 32 percent were in favor of that, while 48 percent were opposed.
Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.
I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.
I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.
See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.
I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).
I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).
But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.
If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.
Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.
But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.
They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?
Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?
Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.
Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?
You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.
Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?
The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.
So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.
So choose wisely.
I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.
Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.
but sure, "both sides"
that's teach the dems.
If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.
I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.
Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.
Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits
I could go on.
Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?
Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.
The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.
The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.
NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!
Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.
We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.
Pick one.
I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.
Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.
Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.
His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago
I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.
Life is full of difficult choices.
This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.
At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.
You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.
If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.
There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.
Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.
Being under indictment is not cause for not being on the ballot. Trump will be the GOP nominee, short of death. So your choice is Trump or whatever Dem, including Biden, is on the ticket against him.
If Biden wants the votes he needs to make a positive case. A bunch of screeching people saying not committing to a Biden vote a year before the election is akin to a Trump vote is hysteria. Earn the votes! Go do some real outreach in Michigan! Act like workers matter! Act like you learned anything from 2016.
Biden has been to Michigan at least 6 times since taking office. How much more "outreach" do you expect of him there?
A whole lot more to the Muslim community he’s presently alienating and cannot win without.
Muslims are 1 percent of the US population. And they are certainly not finding a happy home in the Republican Party. Supporting Hamas is not a winning issue for either party. The vast, vast majority of Americans - on all sides - are appalled by what happened on 10/7 and will support Israel as they counter it. It's the hard right and the far left that are pro-Hamas. Elections won't be won or lost in that space.
According to Pew, more Dems support Palestine over Israel. The current protests against Israel defending itself are all by the left wing of the party. Biden (rightly) has committed America to unwavering support of Israel and the IDF. Israel has taken an extremely methodical approach to fighting the war and destroying Hamas. Meaning this will be a months long operation. Biden needs to be worried about losing a significant portion of his base-the far left.
This is blatantly false. Here is exactly what Pew says:
"Americans overall view Israeli people more favorably than Palestinians.
Two-thirds of Americans express at least a somewhat favorable view of the Israeli people, including one-in-five who say they feel very favorably toward the Israelis. Opinion about the Palestinian people is somewhat cooler: 52% of the public has a favorable view, and one-in-ten U.S. adults have a very favorable opinion of the Palestinians."
Also, here is another poll AFTER THE HAMAS ATTACK that contradicts you:
"Indeed, 7 in 10 Americans — including 81 percent of Republicans and 74 percent of Democrats — support providing aid to Israel, while a plurality (41 percent) say it would be a “good idea” to send Israel weapons if needed, per Economist/YouGov polling. "
Also, from the journalist: "Frankly, in my five decades of experience in politics, including polling extensively on issues related to Israel and the America-Israel relationship, the current support for Israel’s right to defend itself against terrorists who seek its destruction is like nothing I’ve seen before and speaks to the impact of the savagery the entire world witnessed on Oct.7. "
Please get your facts straight or you only cause more divisiveness.
After the butchery on 10/7, American support for Israel is pretty universal. Personally, I think Biden is too old. Bit he's been remarkably good with both Israel and Ukraine. Maybe he loses Dearborn, but he's definitely winning independents.
Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.
I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.
I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.
See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.
I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).
I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).
But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.
If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.
Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.
But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.
They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?
Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?
Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.
Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?
You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.
Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?
The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.
So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.
So choose wisely.
I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.
Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.
but sure, "both sides"
that's teach the dems.
If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.
I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.
Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.
Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits
I could go on.
Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?
Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.
The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.
The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.
NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!
Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.
We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.
Pick one.
I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.
Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.
Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.
His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago
I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.
Life is full of difficult choices.
This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.
At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.
You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.
If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.
There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.
Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.
Being under indictment is not cause for not being on the ballot. Trump will be the GOP nominee, short of death. So your choice is Trump or whatever Dem, including Biden, is on the ticket against him.
If Biden wants the votes he needs to make a positive case. A bunch of screeching people saying not committing to a Biden vote a year before the election is akin to a Trump vote is hysteria. Earn the votes! Go do some real outreach in Michigan! Act like workers matter! Act like you learned anything from 2016.
Biden has been to Michigan at least 6 times since taking office. How much more "outreach" do you expect of him there?
A whole lot more to the Muslim community he’s presently alienating and cannot win without.
Muslims are 1 percent of the US population. And they are certainly not finding a happy home in the Republican Party. Supporting Hamas is not a winning issue for either party. The vast, vast majority of Americans - on all sides - are appalled by what happened on 10/7 and will support Israel as they counter it. It's the hard right and the far left that are pro-Hamas. Elections won't be won or lost in that space.
According to Pew, more Dems support Palestine over Israel. The current protests against Israel defending itself are all by the left wing of the party. Biden (rightly) has committed America to unwavering support of Israel and the IDF. Israel has taken an extremely methodical approach to fighting the war and destroying Hamas. Meaning this will be a months long operation. Biden needs to be worried about losing a significant portion of his base-the far left.
All he can do is try to work out deals with the Arab states and continue to isolate Hamas as distinct from Palestinians. Short of that, what else can anyone expect?
Well according to the left wing of the party they want him to do a whole lot more. Like demanding an immediate ceasefire, cutting off all support to Israel, working with the UN to send in a ground force to separate the two sides, etc.
Most Americans are in favor of strong support to Israel and arming the IDF to prosecute the war. The problem for Biden is that a not small portion of the Democrat progressive base is furious with the administration for its strong support of Israel.[/quote]
No most Americans are not in favor of that. This is why Biden will lose. Israel is a terrorist state. Look what they are doing.
Anonymous wrote:Biden absolutely cannot win Michigan without the Arab-American vote. That group includes Muslims and Christians. Again, the red lights are flashing and Biden’s team is pulling a Robby Mook by looking at faulty data, rather than the talk and feel on the ground. Supporting the UAW can only get Biden so far in the Great Lakes state. He needs to change his tune asap.
Change his tune about what? Would you like him to start a march about how Jews deserve to be slaughtered - would that make you happy?
I think Biden has a mainstream position on Israel, and I don't see what he would possibly have to gain by aligning himself with the pro-Hamas branch of things right now. Twitter isn't real life.
I don't know if he will win. I hope he does. I think he would have a LOT to lose by abandoning Israel in favor of trying to make some loudmouth genocidal college students turn out.
Anonymous wrote:Biden absolutely cannot win Michigan without the Arab-American vote. That group includes Muslims and Christians. Again, the red lights are flashing and Biden’s team is pulling a Robby Mook by looking at faulty data, rather than the talk and feel on the ground. Supporting the UAW can only get Biden so far in the Great Lakes state. He needs to change his tune asap.
He supports Israel as a country. He supports Palestinians as a people. He opposes Hamas. That is his message. What else would you have him do or say?
THANK YOU. I feel like I am losing my mind, paying any attention to the internet for these last few weeks (/years).
Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.
I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.
I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.
See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.
I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).
I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).
But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.
If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.
Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.
But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.
They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?
Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?
Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.
Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?
You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.
Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?
The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.
So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.
So choose wisely.
I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.
Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.
but sure, "both sides"
that's teach the dems.
If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.
I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.
Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.
Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits
I could go on.
Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?
Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.
The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.
The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.
NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!
Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.
We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.
Pick one.
I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.
Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.
Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.
His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago
I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.
Life is full of difficult choices.
This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.
At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.
You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.
Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.
If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.
There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.
Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.
It is time for democrats to understand that the more indictment they bring, the more popular Trump will be. It is like Hillary calling the voters deplorable. The more she used the word, the more votes she was losing. Same thing with indictments. Why our party cannot see the big picture?
"the democrats" are not bringing indictments. Indictments happen because grand juries, comprised of citizens, weigh evidence, and authorize the indictments.
Understand, the people testifying against trump are all republicans and Trump's inner circle. This is not a democrat versus republican thing, it is law versus lawlessness.
The DOJ is not considered an independent agency, so you cannot make this claim. It is run by a person who sits on the cabinet and serves at the pleasure of the president. That makes it an inherently political agency even if there are some checks on it (eg grand jury).
The DOJ has traditionally been recognized as part, but independent of, the Executive branch. What you fail to answer to here is the fact that while the DOJ can convene a grand jury, the grand jusry makes the recommendation to indict. And based upon the testimony of Trump's own staff and inner circle and evidence present to the grand jury - which does NOT, in any way, shape or form report to the President - the decision was made to indict Trump.
Anonymous wrote:Biden absolutely cannot win Michigan without the Arab-American vote. That group includes Muslims and Christians. Again, the red lights are flashing and Biden’s team is pulling a Robby Mook by looking at faulty data, rather than the talk and feel on the ground. Supporting the UAW can only get Biden so far in the Great Lakes state. He needs to change his tune asap.
He supports Israel as a country. He supports Palestinians as a people. He opposes Hamas. That is his message. What else would you have him do or say?
THANK YOU. I feel like I am losing my mind, paying any attention to the internet for these last few weeks (/years).
I agree with Biden's stance. But is it so difficult to see it from the other perspective? Hamas represents Palestinians. So to many people-- pro AND anti-- supporting Palestinians is synonymous with supporting Hamas. It's a democracy.
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