Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

WS should pull out of VA...but it's too late now....now they are holding a VA DA slot....and most kids will be from MD on team

Have they had a lot of MD players at the VA ID clinics?

The washington suburbs in Md do not have a DA. There are a ton of kids there. They are going to get rostered on the Spirit VA team because they won't get enough talent out of Nova to fill a substantial part of their rosters....because most VA kids will stay put

I'd stated above that I thought it was odd that Bethesda didn't put in for a DA. My prediction would be that if/when ECNL starts to decline, Bethesda will end up partnering with the Washington Spirit MD DA.

Without a doubt...and WS will have a lock on MD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:these two guys are both hell-bent on getting the last word .... maybe start your own thread to argue back and forth?

I did start a CCL thread for him/her to bitch about the league. I also encouraged for the creation of the VYS thread as well which has worked out just fine. He is the only one actively bitching about CCL. I apologize to all for taking the bait and stating my opinion.

apology accepted, now quit making it worse and go into that thread you created. thx!!!!!

sigh.......

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1K5EjybrDKksNa4jjGRrSXd7kCynJRUvPK_e6heXdyNk/mobilepresent?slide=id.p4

Washington spirit girls Da presentation link above

Jim Gabarra is TD for VA
No head coaches named yet
Practice locations not named yet
But...
The flow chart clearly shows the VA team will be a Va-Md combo....I'm assuming Nova and Southern Md......and then they will have WS Baltimore.

I'm not sure that is showing him as the TD. It looks more like he is the top of the pyramid, then the VA TD reports to him, and all the coaching staff reports to the VA TD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ditto. Same experience. We had a choice between two convenient nearby clubs. Both A teams. One in NCSL and one in CCL.

We chose the CCL team because the coach was an amazing coach, female for my DD, and the training plan more advanced. There was a big sacrifice of course as we knew we would have to play in CCL, which is poorly organized and has unnecessary travel distances.

At U9 and 10, it has a bad structure, where you play the same 7 clubs over and over, many of which have shaky teams. Playing the same bad teams over and over was not enjoyable.

At U11 and U12, it got even worse, with travel to Richmond, VA Beach, Williamsburg, Roanoke, etc. to play some real weak teams at times. We all hated those drives, as did almost every parent on the team, but chose not to switch clubs because of the amazing coach we had, as we all know how important the coaching choice is, and we all know the advice that leagues should not matter.

But unfortunately they do to some extent . . . when we scrimmaged Great Falls, Alexandria, Bethesda, etc. locally and realized all the good teams in this area, we realized the scam that CCL is.

My advice is to find the best coach you can on a team that does not play in CCL. Apparently, CCL knows it has an UNreasonable travel problem and is addressing it.

It is true there is a crazed poster on here that beats a dead horse and tries to sell CCL as a well designed, well organized, league for U9 to U-12. He or she must work for CCL and this is their job to build it up on DCUM! LOL.

Trust us. It is not. Trust the many posts that have explained how the long travel for 5th and 6th graders is just insane. I forgot to mention that at U11, many of these weaker southern CCL clubs can't even field teams, so you end up with a season where you maybe play 6 games total in Fall, and about the same in Spring. NCSL seems to have a structure that works and avoids this, but our coach said she had know choice under club rules but to play in CCL. She didn't like it either, so that tells you a lot!

So I get your situation, but the poster who labels himself as the CCL Guy thinks we pick CCL to impress friends and should move to a different coach and team if we don't like the travel in CCL travel soccer. He is full of contradictions to his own advice, and has an agenda to defend CCL.

Or, he may just be a pure troll after all. Got a good laugh out of that . . .

How can Beach FC be linked to a weak Southern CCL team? The club has one the Overall Girls side for the past two years with top A teams from BRYC, Loudoun and Arlington. I acknowledge that Maryland United and McLean don't field their A teams in the U13 and above age brackets but have met those ECNL teams in previous tournaments and the games have been very competitive. SOCA, and VA Legacy might not field teams that are very competitive but have several age groups that are near the tops of their division. Beach FC has never failed to field a team in an age bracket so that would be a false statement.

Things I've said all along

I have boys, but that posters sentiments mirror mine exactly. The parents and players at the U9-U11 age at our Club in CCL had such an over-inflated sense of their true talent. The teams in the brackets were not good and like he/she said: "play the same 7 clubs over and over, many of which have shaky teams. Playing the same bad teams over and over was not enjoyable."

We'd finally go out to a tournament and start playing teams from outside the State or in other leagues and be demoralized. The kids would literally fall apart because it was the first time they ever got challenged/lost. In the later years, the team wouldn't even make an upper division tournament bracket or be invited to play.

I disagree that parents will always do the best by their kids. In some areas, there are no other viable options. I live in a very large County and there is only 1 travel club. They monopolize every field. Zero choice. Of course, you could leave and sit in hours of traffic. The conundrum if you don't like the training is---keep paying and supplement the Club or lose all of your carpool opportunities. In this area with working parents and heavy traffic--clubs can bank on always having a paying customer no matter how poorly they are doing their job or how unhappy and grumbling the sidelines are (which is often like a thunder dome of disgust and complaints). I used to call these people "suckers", but now I sympathize with them.

"I'm not wasting life and development time fighting a League structure when I can simply go down the street and find something else that works just as well without the headache."

Obtuse statement.

How is that obtuse? I am perfectly happy with where my kids are.

Obtuse answer.

I think the poster is referring to my post (you know the one he commented on) which addresses the very real problem for most parents:

"In some areas, there are no other viable options. I live in a very large County and there is only 1 travel club. They monopolize every field. Zero choice. Of course, you could leave and sit in hours of traffic. The conundrum if you don't like the training is---keep paying and supplement the Club or lose all of your carpool opportunities. In this area with working parents and heavy traffic--clubs can bank on always having a paying customer no matter how poorly they are doing their job or how unhappy and grumbling the sidelines are (which is often like a thunder dome of disgust and complaints). I used to call these people "suckers", but now I sympathize with them."

He was apparently pointing out that the better choice was to walk. Easier said then done, agree with you above and not the CCL Guy. Complaints about travel worked well and travel should be less next year for U11 for anyone playing in CCL. If NextGen takes off (doubtful), even better. You don't have to walk if you don't like your league's travel. No argument about assessing opportunities costs, it is just that CCL Guy will not accept that CCL has been poorly structured for some time to serve the needs of many, many families and coaches. That is the whole debate. We do have one guy that loves traveling to Williamsburg though a league game. One. As far as I can tell, CCL Guy is not at our club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ditto. Same experience. We had a choice between two convenient nearby clubs. Both A teams. One in NCSL and one in CCL.

We chose the CCL team because the coach was an amazing coach, female for my DD, and the training plan more advanced. There was a big sacrifice of course as we knew we would have to play in CCL, which is poorly organized and has unnecessary travel distances.

At U9 and 10, it has a bad structure, where you play the same 7 clubs over and over, many of which have shaky teams. Playing the same bad teams over and over was not enjoyable.

At U11 and U12, it got even worse, with travel to Richmond, VA Beach, Williamsburg, Roanoke, etc. to play some real weak teams at times. We all hated those drives, as did almost every parent on the team, but chose not to switch clubs because of the amazing coach we had, as we all know how important the coaching choice is, and we all know the advice that leagues should not matter.

But unfortunately they do to some extent . . . when we scrimmaged Great Falls, Alexandria, Bethesda, etc. locally and realized all the good teams in this area, we realized the scam that CCL is.

My advice is to find the best coach you can on a team that does not play in CCL. Apparently, CCL knows it has an UNreasonable travel problem and is addressing it.

It is true there is a crazed poster on here that beats a dead horse and tries to sell CCL as a well designed, well organized, league for U9 to U-12. He or she must work for CCL and this is their job to build it up on DCUM! LOL.

Trust us. It is not. Trust the many posts that have explained how the long travel for 5th and 6th graders is just insane. I forgot to mention that at U11, many of these weaker southern CCL clubs can't even field teams, so you end up with a season where you maybe play 6 games total in Fall, and about the same in Spring. NCSL seems to have a structure that works and avoids this, but our coach said she had know choice under club rules but to play in CCL. She didn't like it either, so that tells you a lot!

So I get your situation, but the poster who labels himself as the CCL Guy thinks we pick CCL to impress friends and should move to a different coach and team if we don't like the travel in CCL travel soccer. He is full of contradictions to his own advice, and has an agenda to defend CCL.

Or, he may just be a pure troll after all. Got a good laugh out of that . . .

How can Beach FC be linked to a weak Southern CCL team? The club has one the Overall Girls side for the past two years with top A teams from BRYC, Loudoun and Arlington. I acknowledge that Maryland United and McLean don't field their A teams in the U13 and above age brackets but have met those ECNL teams in previous tournaments and the games have been very competitive. SOCA, and VA Legacy might not field teams that are very competitive but have several age groups that are near the tops of their division. Beach FC has never failed to field a team in an age bracket so that would be a false statement.

Things I've said all along

I have boys, but that posters sentiments mirror mine exactly. The parents and players at the U9-U11 age at our Club in CCL had such an over-inflated sense of their true talent. The teams in the brackets were not good and like he/she said: "play the same 7 clubs over and over, many of which have shaky teams. Playing the same bad teams over and over was not enjoyable."

We'd finally go out to a tournament and start playing teams from outside the State or in other leagues and be demoralized. The kids would literally fall apart because it was the first time they ever got challenged/lost. In the later years, the team wouldn't even make an upper division tournament bracket or be invited to play.

I disagree that parents will always do the best by their kids. In some areas, there are no other viable options. I live in a very large County and there is only 1 travel club. They monopolize every field. Zero choice. Of course, you could leave and sit in hours of traffic. The conundrum if you don't like the training is---keep paying and supplement the Club or lose all of your carpool opportunities. In this area with working parents and heavy traffic--clubs can bank on always having a paying customer no matter how poorly they are doing their job or how unhappy and grumbling the sidelines are (which is often like a thunder dome of disgust and complaints). I used to call these people "suckers", but now I sympathize with them.

"I'm not wasting life and development time fighting a League structure when I can simply go down the street and find something else that works just as well without the headache."

Obtuse statement.

How is that obtuse? I am perfectly happy with where my kids are.

Obtuse answer.

I think the poster is referring to my post (you know the one he commented on) which addresses the very real problem for most parents:

"In some areas, there are no other viable options. I live in a very large County and there is only 1 travel club. They monopolize every field. Zero choice. Of course, you could leave and sit in hours of traffic. The conundrum if you don't like the training is---keep paying and supplement the Club or lose all of your carpool opportunities. In this area with working parents and heavy traffic--clubs can bank on always having a paying customer no matter how poorly they are doing their job or how unhappy and grumbling the sidelines are (which is often like a thunder dome of disgust and complaints). I used to call these people "suckers", but now I sympathize with them."

He was apparently pointing out that the better choice was to walk. Easier said then done, agree with you above and not the CCL Guy. Complaints about travel worked well and travel should be less next year for U11 for anyone playing in CCL. If NextGen takes off (doubtful), even better. You don't have to walk if you don't like your league's travel. No argument about assessing opportunities costs, it is just that CCL Guy will not accept that CCL has been poorly structured for some time to serve the needs of many, many families and coaches. That is the whole debate. We do have one guy that loves traveling to Williamsburg though a league game. One. As far as I can tell, CCL Guy is not at our club.

Oh for Christs sake! Please go here and you'll never run into me again.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/619396.page

[Anonymous]

...sigh...

kettle again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
...sigh...

kettle again

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/619396.page

Either take it here or STFU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1K5EjybrDKksNa4jjGRrSXd7kCynJRUvPK_e6heXdyNk/mobilepresent?slide=id.p4

Washington spirit girls Da presentation link above

Jim Gabarra is TD for VA
No head coaches named yet
Practice locations not named yet
But...
The flow chart clearly shows the VA team will be a Va-Md combo....I'm assuming Nova and Southern Md......and then they will have WS Baltimore.

I'm not sure that is showing him as the TD. It looks more like he is the top of the pyramid, then the VA TD reports to him, and all the coaching staff reports to the VA TD.

How the Spirit DA shakes out is most intriguing. What, on paper, appeared to be very promising, especially being a pro club has turned into a shit show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
...sigh...

kettle again

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/619396.page

Either take it here or STFU.

i think u are swearing at the wrong person. you did this very same routine before about that thread, and then brought it all back here again. thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
...sigh...

kettle again

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/619396.page

Either take it here or STFU.

i think u are swearing at the wrong person. you did this very same routine before about that thread, and then brought it all back here again. thanks.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/619396.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whaaa!!!! I pay $3000 and my kid practices on a patch and is in a low division of ODSL!!! Clubs are evil!!

Our brilliant coach ran to another club and now we don't have academy night anymore!!! And did I mention I pay $3000 a year!?!? Clubs are evil!!!!!

Our club makes us pay for tournaments on top of our club fees and we spend $3000 a year!!!! Clubs are evil!!

Our club only recruits kids and charges them $3000 a year!!!! Clubs are evil!!'n

We have to drive a hour away for a game and we pay $3000 a year for that inconvenience!!!! Clubs are evil!!!!!

That is what you morons all sound like.

Most of us aren't paying $3,000 a year.

Many of the complaints we make here are about clubs we have LEFT.

Other complaints are just constructive criticism. I know some club directors who would like to cut down the distances in lower-level travel. But if everyone quit and formed his or her own league over every disagreement with a league, then every club would form its own league. (In other words, we'd all be playing rec soccer.)

I'm astounded you would read this thread if you don't want to talk about clubs, compare them and ask how things could get better. What do you think we should be doing? Bragging anonymously about our kids?

Why on earth do you read this thread?

Leagues have been discussed and I have disagreed with your viewpoints. I've not said don't discuss CCL or other low level leagues. I just don't happen to agree with your perspective on it. I get some of your points but I don't believe that having One single league to rule them all is the answer. I don't believe in monopolies.

But complaining that this club charges $3k is pointless and doesn't paint the whole picture. Considering that nobody needs to even play soccer of course anything spent is a waste of money. But everyone has varying degrees of expectation and acceptable loss. But there are cheaper alternatives but general ego won't allow most parents in this region to accept that. Heaven forbid your kid just plays rec, for most kids the end game is the same. So fine bitch because your ego made you spend $3k but blame the clubs instead.

Didn't even read the first sentence of my post and responded as if it didn't exist. Wow.

Assuming you're the same person who made the "I'm the guy you're all bitching about" post -- thanks for that, but you didn't answer the primary question: Why are you reading this? OK, you're not a TD protecting the cash cow of travel soccer. Do you just come in here to act superior because you think all these "complaints" (which are often either info-sharing or constructive criticism) are beneath you? That would be ... sad. I've dealt with some Internet trolls in my day, but they at least seem to be enjoying it.

Let's try again:

1. We aren't all paying $3,000 a year. Those that do have every right to come here and discuss whether they're getting their money's worth, then decide to either stick with it or go with something cheaper. That means we'd be discussing the merits of elite soccer, including (gasp) CCL.

2. Most travel parents have realistic expectations. I know a lot of B-, C-, D-, E- and F-team parents, and they're not under the illusion that their kids are going to break through and play for D.C. United at age 16. Some realize their kids don't even have much of a shot of playing high school soccer. (Do the math: Let's say a medium-sized club has four travel teams in the early age groups and feeds into three main high schools. That's 44 kids per year. Rounding up, that's 15 kids per high school per year. Already far more than the high school can take, and that's not even taking into account the kids who play for other clubs and the occasional rec-league phenom who doesn't play travel for cost reasons.) They play travel because rec leagues have been so thoroughly undermined (in some areas, not all) that they're not close to real soccer, and their kids want to play real soccer. They'd rather be paying $1,000 instead of $2,000, but the market is what it is.

3. A lot of parents DON'T know the difference between all these leagues and clubs. They come in here because they don't know CCL like you do, and they want to know if it's worthwhile. That doesn't make them stupid. They may have just moved to the area, or they may have other things in their life besides being up to speed on the U12 coaches at Arlington and Alexandria.

Do some parents protest too much? Absolutely. You could probably have a better experience in this thread if you just called them out individually instead of declaring the whole conversation a waste of time. (I'd probably agree with you in many cases.)

Enjoy.

Frankly, I don't owe you an explanation or reason why I read this thread.

. . . ground hog day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whaaa!!!! I pay $3000 and my kid practices on a patch and is in a low division of ODSL!!! Clubs are evil!!

Our brilliant coach ran to another club and now we don't have academy night anymore!!! And did I mention I pay $3000 a year!?!? Clubs are evil!!!!!

Our club makes us pay for tournaments on top of our club fees and we spend $3000 a year!!!! Clubs are evil!!

Our club only recruits kids and charges them $3000 a year!!!! Clubs are evil!!'n

We have to drive a hour away for a game and we pay $3000 a year for that inconvenience!!!! Clubs are evil!!!!!

That is what you morons all sound like.

Most of us aren't paying $3,000 a year.

Many of the complaints we make here are about clubs we have LEFT.

Other complaints are just constructive criticism. I know some club directors who would like to cut down the distances in lower-level travel. But if everyone quit and formed his or her own league over every disagreement with a league, then every club would form its own league. (In other words, we'd all be playing rec soccer.)

I'm astounded you would read this thread if you don't want to talk about clubs, compare them and ask how things could get better. What do you think we should be doing? Bragging anonymously about our kids?

Why on earth do you read this thread?

Leagues have been discussed and I have disagreed with your viewpoints. I've not said don't discuss CCL or other low level leagues. I just don't happen to agree with your perspective on it. I get some of your points but I don't believe that having One single league to rule them all is the answer. I don't believe in monopolies.

But complaining that this club charges $3k is pointless and doesn't paint the whole picture. Considering that nobody needs to even play soccer of course anything spent is a waste of money. But everyone has varying degrees of expectation and acceptable loss. But there are cheaper alternatives but general ego won't allow most parents in this region to accept that. Heaven forbid your kid just plays rec, for most kids the end game is the same. So fine bitch because your ego made you spend $3k but blame the clubs instead.

Didn't even read the first sentence of my post and responded as if it didn't exist. Wow.

Assuming you're the same person who made the "I'm the guy you're all bitching about" post -- thanks for that, but you didn't answer the primary question: Why are you reading this? OK, you're not a TD protecting the cash cow of travel soccer. Do you just come in here to act superior because you think all these "complaints" (which are often either info-sharing or constructive criticism) are beneath you? That would be ... sad. I've dealt with some Internet trolls in my day, but they at least seem to be enjoying it.

Let's try again:

1. We aren't all paying $3,000 a year. Those that do have every right to come here and discuss whether they're getting their money's worth, then decide to either stick with it or go with something cheaper. That means we'd be discussing the merits of elite soccer, including (gasp) CCL.

2. Most travel parents have realistic expectations. I know a lot of B-, C-, D-, E- and F-team parents, and they're not under the illusion that their kids are going to break through and play for D.C. United at age 16. Some realize their kids don't even have much of a shot of playing high school soccer. (Do the math: Let's say a medium-sized club has four travel teams in the early age groups and feeds into three main high schools. That's 44 kids per year. Rounding up, that's 15 kids per high school per year. Already far more than the high school can take, and that's not even taking into account the kids who play for other clubs and the occasional rec-league phenom who doesn't play travel for cost reasons.) They play travel because rec leagues have been so thoroughly undermined (in some areas, not all) that they're not close to real soccer, and their kids want to play real soccer. They'd rather be paying $1,000 instead of $2,000, but the market is what it is.

3. A lot of parents DON'T know the difference between all these leagues and clubs. They come in here because they don't know CCL like you do, and they want to know if it's worthwhile. That doesn't make them stupid. They may have just moved to the area, or they may have other things in their life besides being up to speed on the U12 coaches at Arlington and Alexandria.

Do some parents protest too much? Absolutely. You could probably have a better experience in this thread if you just called them out individually instead of declaring the whole conversation a waste of time. (I'd probably agree with you in many cases.)

Enjoy.

Frankly, I don't owe you an explanation or reason why I read this thread.

. . . ground hog day

I had one quote in all of that thread. You or somebody else was arguing with somebody else. Now for the last time, because I don't really give a crap about CCL please take it here or be gone:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/619396.page

[Anonymous]

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/619396.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I don't owe you an explanation or reason why I read this thread.

No, but you might owe it to yourself.

So, how is all of this terrific discussion working now? The reasons why not mentioning clubs by name is a good thing because this kind of crap doesn't happen. Mention a club and inevitably somebody piles on and somebody comes to defend and then people start calling each other or accusing each other of calling someone a fucktard.

All I did was offer a suggestion based on seeing exactly what happens in other threads happen here now. But hey, you sure told me.

Different poster here, but it's working out ok. You have to take the long view. The Arlington bashing was running out of steam for this round before you drew more attention to it. The lady who thinks its funny to say fucktard will fade back into the woodwork again soon too. And we'll be on to the next thing.

IMO, if you like a good discussion, it's better to post questions or comments on topics that you think worthwhile than it is to call out other people's posts.

Like you just did yourself? I'll take note, thanks for the hypocrissy though.

Man, you are thin-skinned. I was actually trying to be helpful, and I'm no hypocrite. I like this thread just the way it is, including all the comments from the crazy people and would-be censors, so the advice I gave you doesn't apply in my case.

I never suggested that people weren't free to club bash, I suggested that they start a seperate thread for such club specific issues, just like the thriving Vienna thread. So your accusations of "would-be-censors" is flat out wrong.

Bash, bash, bash to your hearts content, just start another thread for it, try to leave this particualr thread bigger and more general interest for everyone.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/619396.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CCL is a big loser here, with BRYC probably out (because they won't have enough teams for CCL and ECNL), and the quality of Loudoun girls teams going down with their top players going to FCV.

Look for Beach and VaRush to win more State Cup titles as NOVA talent is spread out over more teams.

I'm curious to see if Spirit MD can attract any girls from Bethesda ECNL, which has top quality coaching and currently draws the top players from the MD suburbs

I think this depends on both the level of the DA teams and whether the practices are up near Baltimore Armour headquarters. There is a lot of coaching talent at the Baltimore Armour boys' DA, and I think if they can offer that on the girls' side they can quickly put together a good team. But Baltimore is awfully hard for Bethesda kids to get to (though some boys from Bethesda, Rockville and Potomac do play for Armour or Baltimore Celtic). Reston would be closer.

It seemed odd to me that Bethesda opted to stay with ECNL instead of applying for a DA spot. I will be curious to see what happens when the dust settles. Very glad my soccer players are boys!

Also agree that CCL is put in a bad position by all the ECNL and DA developments. I wonder if they will go back to just serving southern and central VA? In NoVa, they can't really claim to be an elite league. "We're better than NCSL" is pretty much what they are left with.

CCL was never....NEVER...considered an Elite league in NOVA.

You have no idea what your talking about.

Ha,ha,ha ... hiya troll

Now we just need the CCL Guy who loves the regional travel. There's a league for everyone you know!! LoL.

And this is when you decided to stir the pot.