Boundary Review Meetings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone understand what they did with Rolling Valley? I looks like they moved the small split feeder group that is currently zone to RV/Key/Lewis to Saratoga/Key/Lewis BUT it looks like they did not include the townhomes north of the fairfax county parkway in that. That would mean that small group of townhomes students would be the only kids at Rolling Valley going to Key/Lewis. That seems odd to me - to make a split feeder even smaller. But they didn't report any changes for Irving/WSHS, so if they were moving those kids to RV/Irving/WS, I think that would be indicated.

That’s a good point. Closing the Rolling Valley split feeder is not mentioned in the bullet points either. I’m just baffled at these examples where they were 1 or 2 SPAs away from resolving an imbalanced feeder pattern only to make it even more imbalanced. They did the same thing with Kilmer MS, which previously fed 12-15% to Madison and now will feed <5%.

For the Kilmer / Thoreau issue they need to modify so that Wolftrap splits at the middle school level - those assigned to Madison go to Thoreau and those assigned to Marshall go to Kilmer. They would then move the <5 percent group you reference at Kilmer to Thoreau and those students would feed into Madison.

Oakton parents at Thoreau should really be paying attention to this. If all of Wolftrap is moved to Thoreau, it all but guarantees Oakton will get punted to Jackson when MS AAP no longer has centers. They can’t put Thoreau so far over capacity when there are 140 AAP students transferring out to centers that will need to come back.

Hence why I have been suggesting for a separate pyramid Oakton Middle School.

Thoreau will CRY for it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From start to the finish this process has been a disaster. Some of it was the Board's doing but a lot of it was the consulting company. Thru consulting is a joke and in the end they stole money from FCPS and delivered a crap product.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I don't think it was Thru's fault. They were handed a total mess and a list of tasks to accomplish that were counter to what local communities wanted. And so they produced maps that made sense on paper (or their mapping system), but just caused more problems in those communities. I seriously doubt they made a profit on this project given the time invested and the number of community meetings they were forced to attend, which required travel costs as they are out of state.

I'm just really grateful that the BRAC members were able to get Gatehouse staff to listen to the communities' concerns and halt a lot of unnecessary and wasteful changes. And a lot of that was because of the countless hours that a lot of us across the county spent writing on forums like this, going to community meetings, meeting with school board members etc. It's been a LOT. This latest map is a massive victory for a lot of us because we were able to eliminate changes that would have really hurt a lot of families across this county. Of course, there's still time for the school board to mess it up and screw people over.

I blame the school board and Reid for this mess. All of it. School board members didn't run on boundary changes when they were being elected but the minute they got into office, this was priority number one. It's been a total disaster and they own all of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the Kilmer / Thoreau issue they need to modify so that Wolftrap splits at the middle school level - those assigned to Madison go to Thoreau and those assigned to Marshall go to Kilmer. They would then move the <5 percent group you reference at Kilmer to Thoreau and those students would feed into Madison.

Why? They did what you said and also eliminated the split at middle school. All of Wolftrap now goes to Thoreau then Madison, which addresses your point about Thoreau to Madison consistency. Why do you say they need to split Wolftrap? That community is clearly very against the middle school split, as opposed to the Town of Vienna people at Westbriar who like their split.

DP. Most of the Marshall people in Falls Church at Shrevewood and Lemon Road did not want to move to McLean, apart from that group of Pimmit Hills parents at Lemon Road, but most of the Marshall families at Wolftrap want to move to Madison. They live in Vienna and identify with Madison being the “Vienna high school.”

It’s not positive for Marshall in terms of the demographic impact, but they wanted to bring down the Kilmer enrollment and they did listen to the feedback.

A lot of changes could have been avoided if they’d prioritized additions to Kilmer MS and McLean HS over expansions of random elementary schools (and Herndon HS) but that’s never happened.

What’s really odd is that Kilmer does have building capacity. In 2023-24 it had 1227 seats, but then last year it was abruptly cut to 1023. It would be at 98% capacity (with modular) if that change hadn’t been made. Even before the modular was installed, capacity was 1143 which would put it at 106% without the modular. I’m not sure why they’re so keen to fill Thoreau with over 1400 kids. Seems like a nightmare for middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From start to the finish this process has been a disaster. Some of it was the Board's doing but a lot of it was the consulting company. Thru consulting is a joke and in the end they stole money from FCPS and delivered a crap product.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I don't think it was Thru's fault. They were handed a total mess and a list of tasks to accomplish that were counter to what local communities wanted. And so they produced maps that made sense on paper (or their mapping system), but just caused more problems in those communities. I seriously doubt they made a profit on this project given the time invested and the number of community meetings they were forced to attend, which required travel costs as they are out of state.

I'm just really grateful that the BRAC members were able to get Gatehouse staff to listen to the communities' concerns and halt a lot of unnecessary and wasteful changes. And a lot of that was because of the countless hours that a lot of us across the county spent writing on forums like this, going to community meetings, meeting with school board members etc. It's been a LOT. This latest map is a massive victory for a lot of us because we were able to eliminate changes that would have really hurt a lot of families across this county. Of course, there's still time for the school board to mess it up and screw people over.

I blame the school board and Reid for this mess. All of it. School board members didn't run on boundary changes when they were being elected but the minute they got into office, this was priority number one. It's been a total disaster and they own all of it.

If you read one post today, let it be the one above.

The school board owns ALL of this mess and waste of the last couple of years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This is not true. Wolftrap declined taking the Westbriar island because it meant shifting some Wolftrap students to Westbriar to make room. It also kept Wolftrap at Marshall and they wanted to move. The compromise was to recommend the island to Colvin Run/Langley, recommend Wolftrap to Madison, and Westbriar to Marshall. But there wasn’t room at Langley and the ToV Westbriar families didn’t want to move, so now we have this mess.

The ToV Westbriar families should have been moved to Thoreau if they wanted to stay at Madison. The Wolftap/Madison families should also have moved to Thoreau to clean up the Kilmer feeding pattern and for capacity reasons. After that they could explore Wolftrap aligning fully with Madison (Thoreau would surely reach or exceed 105% at that point, but clearly no one cares anymore.)

Fair point. Also, I think the attendance island should have been moved to Colvin Run like that neighborhood wanted, I am not sure why their feedback didn't get listened too. I did not consider that it also made it an attendance island at other levels when it wasn't previously. My bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the Kilmer / Thoreau issue they need to modify so that Wolftrap splits at the middle school level - those assigned to Madison go to Thoreau and those assigned to Marshall go to Kilmer. They would then move the <5 percent group you reference at Kilmer to Thoreau and those students would feed into Madison.

Why? They did what you said and also eliminated the split at middle school. All of Wolftrap now goes to Thoreau then Madison, which addresses your point about Thoreau to Madison consistency. Why do you say they need to split Wolftrap? That community is clearly very against the middle school split, as opposed to the Town of Vienna people at Westbriar who like their split.

I live in the community and have students attending Marshall and there has been no outreach to gather input from the community - push by current Wolftrap families is not the same as community input that involves those with students at other levels, not in school yet, or previously had students there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone understand what they did with Rolling Valley? I looks like they moved the small split feeder group that is currently zone to RV/Key/Lewis to Saratoga/Key/Lewis BUT it looks like they did not include the townhomes north of the fairfax county parkway in that. That would mean that small group of townhomes students would be the only kids at Rolling Valley going to Key/Lewis. That seems odd to me - to make a split feeder even smaller. But they didn't report any changes for Irving/WSHS, so if they were moving those kids to RV/Irving/WS, I think that would be indicated.

SPA 8922 ahould have also gone to Saratoga.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to overstate how incredibly wasteful and disruptive the boundary review has been.

$500,000 for the no bid contract

10s of thousands at least for all the printing at all those meeting over the past 2 years, full color multipage packets on heavy weight glossy paper

At least a half dozen translators paid at every meeting to read the opening statement in a bunch of languages, as FCPS believes that bilingual parents and those that don't speak English are unable to read the written statement in their native tongue. These translators sat for the entire meeting each time, even if every person in attendance, including the non native born parents, spoke fluent English.

Dozens of FCPS employees paid to attend every meeting. Tech staff, AV, table monitors, door greeters, set up and clean up. Was this overtime pay? Staffing of the meetings over the past few years must have been thousands of dollars for each event, especially when you factor in the payroll taxes.

Were there contract overruns for Thru?

I hope FairFacts submits a fioa to find out how much FCPS wasted on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're all forgetting that Western Fairfax county was largely ignored here because there will be major changes announced in June. I don't think those changes will be just high school boundaries either.

True, but I don’t think they’ll introduce anything that wasn’t already proposed in scenario 4. And I can’t imagine what they would sneak in. The current proposal fixes Coates and gets Ashvale Dr out of Crossfield, so there were some adjustments. Reid also said they weren’t touching middle school boundaries for Western.

I'm curious about this one b/c the mysterious scenario E puts Lees Corner at Western High. Ashvale currently goes to Crossfield - Franklin - Chantilly. I wonder if making this move now is indication that Scenario E was a false flag.

I don't know if it were a false flag, but if it was, it was an extremely dumb one.

It's just interesting that the only person who knew about that map was the individual who posted it in RIO. She clearly got it from someone in Gatehouse. I think there's at least a couple RIO moms who work for FCPS, so maybe through one of them?

What’s RIO?

Remain in Oakton.

Essentially Crossfield parents who don’t want rezoned to Western.

Rooted in Oakton. They have a website and a petition and attend a lot of meetings to make the case that they should stay at Oakton HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're all forgetting that Western Fairfax county was largely ignored here because there will be major changes announced in June. I don't think those changes will be just high school boundaries either.

True, but I don’t think they’ll introduce anything that wasn’t already proposed in scenario 4. And I can’t imagine what they would sneak in. The current proposal fixes Coates and gets Ashvale Dr out of Crossfield, so there were some adjustments. Reid also said they weren’t touching middle school boundaries for Western.

I'm curious about this one b/c the mysterious scenario E puts Lees Corner at Western High. Ashvale currently goes to Crossfield - Franklin - Chantilly. I wonder if making this move now is indication that Scenario E was a false flag.

I don't know if it were a false flag, but if it was, it was an extremely dumb one.

It's just interesting that the only person who knew about that map was the individual who posted it in RIO. She clearly got it from someone in Gatehouse. I think there's at least a couple RIO moms who work for FCPS, so maybe through one of them?

What’s RIO?

Remain in Oakton.

Essentially Crossfield parents who don’t want rezoned to Western.

Rooted in Oakton and it is primarily Carson and Oakton parents who live within the Crossfield and Navy boundaries who were concerned that our kids would have to switch mid-way through high school. The group has been silent ever since Reid announced that current middle and high schoolers can stay at Oakton. As a parent of two high schoolers, I no longer have any stake in this game. My kids get to stay where they are, and that is all I care about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t explain why they decided to not make a decision. Halley still has an attendance island. Are they too afraid to make a decision?

They got a lot of push back. I think for some areas they’re waiting and hoping the temperature drops? I don’t see that happening but whatever.

I think they really wanted them at Gunston, but due to the efforts of the Mason Neck Citizens Group, and probably also the physical state of Gunston ES, that’s not going to be feasible without big renovations to the school. So now it’s a big hot potato of do they move kids out of Gunston to I guess Island Creek to make room at Gunston? (That’s a long bus ride). Do they add Hagel to Lorton Station and then try to make moves to get LSES as a SC feeder? Not really possible right now without overcrowding South County MS and HS though. Do they add it to Lorton Station/Hayfield and then wash their hands of the whole thing? Do they try to add it to Laurel Hill which makes a nice border on paper but still ends up with a long bus ride? (And another overcrowded school at Laurel Hill as well). Are they ok with potentially taking LSES, which is a big feeder school, out of Hayfield and leaving Hayfield under-enrolled, assuming they’ll need the capacity at Hayfield to relieve Edison? But if Edison needs relief, the first places to look should be under-enrolled Lewis and over-expanded West Potomac.

I really think to solve the South County overcrowding, they should send kids from Springfield to Lewis. Anyways that bus ride for them is about 10-15 minutes so they might as well go to Lewis and let Lorton Students stay in Lorton.

Lorton station elementary students are closest to South County while some Springfield students go to south county. Not right. They should be at Lewis and they’ve got plenty of capacity

The only Springfield kids at SC are in Newington Forest, in which case they’d be bussed the whole way down the parkway to Key and Lewis, past the attendance areas for both Hunt Valley and Rolling Valley, which both go to West Springfield. That would be a gigantic border gerrymander. And at that point people would rightly wonder why it wasn’t at least part of Hunt Valley at Lewis and we’re suddenly back on that nonsense again. South County is fine as is and doesn’t need to lose any students. It’s just if they want it to gain a few hundred from Lorton Station that’s where the problem comes in.

Isn't Newington Forest in Lorton?

Thet would also go past Daventry and West Springfield Elementary.

Daventry is the neighborhood you should be focused on. They were recently zoned to Lewis, and are part of the Franconia magesterial district, not the Springfield district. Daventry and Keene Mill elementary are the closest West Springfield areas to Lewis by a long shot.

Whoever is saying that Newington should attend Lewis is not looking at maps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they are making space at Fairfax to avoid ticking off Fairfax City. I'm wondering if the plan is to send the ATT redevlopment homes to Johnson/Fairfax. Johnson you would send down Rosehaven to Arrowhead, left at the Oakmont REc light and down Jermantown to KJ. THat small neighborhood already goes to Providence/KJ/Fairfax it was proposed to move but I think they backed off it. It's also barely further to Fairfax than Oakton and closer to Fairfax than the neighborhoods being moved out were. Big issue is the ES no room at Providence, but talk to Karl Frisch about that since he got the Blake Lane School killed that a bond was voted on for back in 2010.

I think they are punting lots to the next cycle to see how some major redevelopments play out, and also if enrollment continues to decline and is it concentrated in particular areas. Also putting AAP on all middle schools is an issue, not sure why AAP even goes to middle school when there are honors and Advanced math options and languages. Whether to keep Elementary AAP centers versus just all local AAP is another big monkey wrench but if they got rid of ES AAP centers maybe then could fix middle school start times.

City of Fairfax homes have protections against rezoning that no other neighborhoods have

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone understand what they did with Rolling Valley? I looks like they moved the small split feeder group that is currently zone to RV/Key/Lewis to Saratoga/Key/Lewis BUT it looks like they did not include the townhomes north of the fairfax county parkway in that. That would mean that small group of townhomes students would be the only kids at Rolling Valley going to Key/Lewis. That seems odd to me - to make a split feeder even smaller. But they didn't report any changes for Irving/WSHS, so if they were moving those kids to RV/Irving/WS, I think that would be indicated.

SPA 8922 ahould have also gone to Saratoga.

Yes, they should either go to Saratoga or stay at Rolling Valley and get move to Irving/WS instead of going on to Key/Irving. Otherwise Rolling Valley is a split feeder with about 5% of the school going to Key/Lewis instead of Irving/WS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're all forgetting that Western Fairfax county was largely ignored here because there will be major changes announced in June. I don't think those changes will be just high school boundaries either.

True, but I don’t think they’ll introduce anything that wasn’t already proposed in scenario 4. And I can’t imagine what they would sneak in. The current proposal fixes Coates and gets Ashvale Dr out of Crossfield, so there were some adjustments. Reid also said they weren’t touching middle school boundaries for Western.

I'm curious about this one b/c the mysterious scenario E puts Lees Corner at Western High. Ashvale currently goes to Crossfield - Franklin - Chantilly. I wonder if making this move now is indication that Scenario E was a false flag.

I don't know if it were a false flag, but if it was, it was an extremely dumb one.

It's just interesting that the only person who knew about that map was the individual who posted it in RIO. She clearly got it from someone in Gatehouse. I think there's at least a couple RIO moms who work for FCPS, so maybe through one of them?

What’s RIO?

Remain in Oakton.

Essentially Crossfield parents who don’t want rezoned to Western.

Rooted in Oakton and it is primarily Carson and Oakton parents who live within the Crossfield and Navy boundaries who were concerned that our kids would have to switch mid-way through high school. The group has been silent ever since Reid announced that current middle and high schoolers can stay at Oakton. As a parent of two high schoolers, I no longer have any stake in this game. My kids get to stay where they are, and that is all I care about.

I just looked at their website and oh my lanta they are stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they are making space at Fairfax to avoid ticking off Fairfax City. I'm wondering if the plan is to send the ATT redevlopment homes to Johnson/Fairfax. Johnson you would send down Rosehaven to Arrowhead, left at the Oakmont REc light and down Jermantown to KJ. THat small neighborhood already goes to Providence/KJ/Fairfax it was proposed to move but I think they backed off it. It's also barely further to Fairfax than Oakton and closer to Fairfax than the neighborhoods being moved out were. Big issue is the ES no room at Providence, but talk to Karl Frisch about that since he got the Blake Lane School killed that a bond was voted on for back in 2010.

I think they are punting lots to the next cycle to see how some major redevelopments play out, and also if enrollment continues to decline and is it concentrated in particular areas. Also putting AAP on all middle schools is an issue, not sure why AAP even goes to middle school when there are honors and Advanced math options and languages. Whether to keep Elementary AAP centers versus just all local AAP is another big monkey wrench but if they got rid of ES AAP centers maybe then could fix middle school start times.

Definitely think this is part of it, I think they were caught off guard by the federal and contractor workforce cuts at the beginning of this administration leading to job losses. They’re also in denial about the natural demographic changes. Peak birth rate was in 2007 and those kids are largely in college now, some are seniors in HS. Interestingly the enrollment has remained steady even with the lower birth rates, Covid siphoning off some students to private, and increased homeschooling, mostly because the number of kids in pre-K (whether income based or special needs) has increased.

Peak birth rate is class of 2026, which contains kids born in both 2027 and 2028, the two top birth years.

Current seniors class of 2026 are the top of the cliff, based on FCPS own stats. Class of 2025 and 2027 are both smaller than class of 2026.

I think you mean 2007 and 2008.