Boundary Review Meetings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone understand what they did with Rolling Valley? I looks like they moved the small split feeder group that is currently zone to RV/Key/Lewis to Saratoga/Key/Lewis BUT it looks like they did not include the townhomes north of the fairfax county parkway in that. That would mean that small group of townhomes students would be the only kids at Rolling Valley going to Key/Lewis. That seems odd to me - to make a split feeder even smaller. But they didn't report any changes for Irving/WSHS, so if they were moving those kids to RV/Irving/WS, I think that would be indicated.

That’s a good point. Closing the Rolling Valley split feeder is not mentioned in the bullet points either. I’m just baffled at these examples where they were 1 or 2 SPAs away from resolving an imbalanced feeder pattern only to make it even more imbalanced. They did the same thing with Kilmer MS, which previously fed 12-15% to Madison and now will feed <5%.

For the Kilmer / Thoreau issue they need to modify so that Wolftrap splits at the middle school level - those assigned to Madison go to Thoreau and those assigned to Marshall go to Kilmer. They would then move the <5 percent group you reference at Kilmer to Thoreau and those students would feed into Madison.

Oakton parents at Thoreau should really be paying attention to this. If all of Wolftrap is moved to Thoreau, it all but guarantees Oakton will get punted to Jackson when MS AAP no longer has centers. They can’t put Thoreau so far over capacity when there are 140 AAP students transferring out to centers that will need to come back.

True, but Jackson will also have more space when the AAP kids return to Thoreau. Part of the original justification for moving the Oakton kids to Thoreau was overcrowding at Jackson due to its being an AAP center drawing from other pyramids.

Ultimately it will come down to whether they have the guts to move people into schools with capacity but more low-income kids than their current schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t explain why they decided to not make a decision. Halley still has an attendance island. Are they too afraid to make a decision?

They got a lot of push back. I think for some areas they’re waiting and hoping the temperature drops? I don’t see that happening but whatever.

I think they really wanted them at Gunston, but due to the efforts of the Mason Neck Citizens Group, and probably also the physical state of Gunston ES, that’s not going to be feasible without big renovations to the school. So now it’s a big hot potato of do they move kids out of Gunston to I guess Island Creek to make room at Gunston? (That’s a long bus ride). Do they add Hagel to Lorton Station and then try to make moves to get LSES as a SC feeder? Not really possible right now without overcrowding South County MS and HS though. Do they add it to Lorton Station/Hayfield and then wash their hands of the whole thing? Do they try to add it to Laurel Hill which makes a nice border on paper but still ends up with a long bus ride? (And another overcrowded school at Laurel Hill as well). Are they ok with potentially taking LSES, which is a big feeder school, out of Hayfield and leaving Hayfield under-enrolled, assuming they’ll need the capacity at Hayfield to relieve Edison? But if Edison needs relief, the first places to look should be under-enrolled Lewis and over-expanded West Potomac.

I really think to solve the South County overcrowding, they should send kids from Springfield to Lewis. Anyways that bus ride for them is about 10-15 minutes so they might as well go to Lewis and let Lorton Students stay in Lorton.

Lorton station elementary students are closest to South County while some Springfield students go to south county. Not right. They should be at Lewis and they’ve got plenty of capacity

The only Springfield kids at SC are in Newington Forest, in which case they’d be bussed the whole way down the parkway to Key and Lewis, past the attendance areas for both Hunt Valley and Rolling Valley, which both go to West Springfield. That would be a gigantic border gerrymander. And at that point people would rightly wonder why it wasn’t at least part of Hunt Valley at Lewis and we’re suddenly back on that nonsense again. South County is fine as is and doesn’t need to lose any students. It’s just if they want it to gain a few hundred from Lorton Station that’s where the problem comes in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone understand what they did with Rolling Valley? I looks like they moved the small split feeder group that is currently zone to RV/Key/Lewis to Saratoga/Key/Lewis BUT it looks like they did not include the townhomes north of the fairfax county parkway in that. That would mean that small group of townhomes students would be the only kids at Rolling Valley going to Key/Lewis. That seems odd to me - to make a split feeder even smaller. But they didn't report any changes for Irving/WSHS, so if they were moving those kids to RV/Irving/WS, I think that would be indicated.

That’s a good point. Closing the Rolling Valley split feeder is not mentioned in the bullet points either. I’m just baffled at these examples where they were 1 or 2 SPAs away from resolving an imbalanced feeder pattern only to make it even more imbalanced. They did the same thing with Kilmer MS, which previously fed 12-15% to Madison and now will feed <5%.

For the Kilmer / Thoreau issue they need to modify so that Wolftrap splits at the middle school level - those assigned to Madison go to Thoreau and those assigned to Marshall go to Kilmer. They would then move the <5 percent group you reference at Kilmer to Thoreau and those students would feed into Madison.

I don’t understand why they didn’t do this. But it seems someone very influential wanted to fix wolftrap so that all go to Madison. This should have been fixed the way you described at the middle school level and it would hve prevented that Marshall high school island near Colvin run.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if they are making space at Fairfax to avoid ticking off Fairfax City. I'm wondering if the plan is to send the ATT redevlopment homes to Johnson/Fairfax. Johnson you would send down Rosehaven to Arrowhead, left at the Oakmont REc light and down Jermantown to KJ. THat small neighborhood already goes to Providence/KJ/Fairfax it was proposed to move but I think they backed off it. It's also barely further to Fairfax than Oakton and closer to Fairfax than the neighborhoods being moved out were. Big issue is the ES no room at Providence, but talk to Karl Frisch about that since he got the Blake Lane School killed that a bond was voted on for back in 2010.

I think they are punting lots to the next cycle to see how some major redevelopments play out, and also if enrollment continues to decline and is it concentrated in particular areas. Also putting AAP on all middle schools is an issue, not sure why AAP even goes to middle school when there are honors and Advanced math options and languages. Whether to keep Elementary AAP centers versus just all local AAP is another big monkey wrench but if they got rid of ES AAP centers maybe then could fix middle school start times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don’t understand why they didn’t do this. But it seems someone very influential wanted to fix wolftrap so that all go to Madison. This should have been fixed the way you described at the middle school level and it would hve prevented that Marshall high school island near Colvin run.

That is wrong - both of these scenarios are neighborhoods unwilling to change, and you are suggesting changing Wolftrap because of their unwillingness. Town of Vienna demanded their split remain at Westbriar. The island near Colvin Run declined joining Wolftrap in hopes of getting into Colvin Run and therefore Langley. Why make changes at Wolftrap as a solution when those two groups were staunchly against change?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the Kilmer / Thoreau issue they need to modify so that Wolftrap splits at the middle school level - those assigned to Madison go to Thoreau and those assigned to Marshall go to Kilmer. They would then move the <5 percent group you reference at Kilmer to Thoreau and those students would feed into Madison.

Why? They did what you said and also eliminated the split at middle school. All of Wolftrap now goes to Thoreau then Madison, which addresses your point about Thoreau to Madison consistency. Why do you say they need to split Wolftrap? That community is clearly very against the middle school split, as opposed to the Town of Vienna people at Westbriar who like their split.

DP. Most of the Marshall people in Falls Church at Shrevewood and Lemon Road did not want to move to McLean, apart from that group of Pimmit Hills parents at Lemon Road, but most of the Marshall families at Wolftrap want to move to Madison. They live in Vienna and identify with Madison being the “Vienna high school.”

It’s not positive for Marshall in terms of the demographic impact, but they wanted to bring down the Kilmer enrollment and they did listen to the feedback.

A lot of changes could have been avoided if they’d prioritized additions to Kilmer MS and McLean HS over expansions of random elementary schools (and Herndon HS) but that’s never happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they are making space at Fairfax to avoid ticking off Fairfax City. I'm wondering if the plan is to send the ATT redevlopment homes to Johnson/Fairfax. Johnson you would send down Rosehaven to Arrowhead, left at the Oakmont REc light and down Jermantown to KJ. THat small neighborhood already goes to Providence/KJ/Fairfax it was proposed to move but I think they backed off it. It's also barely further to Fairfax than Oakton and closer to Fairfax than the neighborhoods being moved out were. Big issue is the ES no room at Providence, but talk to Karl Frisch about that since he got the Blake Lane School killed that a bond was voted on for back in 2010.

I think they are punting lots to the next cycle to see how some major redevelopments play out, and also if enrollment continues to decline and is it concentrated in particular areas. Also putting AAP on all middle schools is an issue, not sure why AAP even goes to middle school when there are honors and Advanced math options and languages. Whether to keep Elementary AAP centers versus just all local AAP is another big monkey wrench but if they got rid of ES AAP centers maybe then could fix middle school start times.

Definitely think this is part of it, I think they were caught off guard by the federal and contractor workforce cuts at the beginning of this administration leading to job losses. They’re also in denial about the natural demographic changes. Peak birth rate was in 2007 and those kids are largely in college now, some are seniors in HS. Interestingly the enrollment has remained steady even with the lower birth rates, Covid siphoning off some students to private, and increased homeschooling, mostly because the number of kids in pre-K (whether income based or special needs) has increased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t explain why they decided to not make a decision. Halley still has an attendance island. Are they too afraid to make a decision?

They got a lot of push back. I think for some areas they’re waiting and hoping the temperature drops? I don’t see that happening but whatever.

Note they backpedaled on changes to the Bren Mar Park split feeder by sending it to Key/Lewis from Holmes/Edison and giving it back it’s 59 sixth graders at Edison.

This is because Beech Tree and Belvedere would have split fed into Poe and Holmes from Glasgow, with Beech Tree having a High School split feeder.

But do note Poe is going to become an AAP center for itself and Holmes, which might result in Glasgow Easing out without needing to lose in boundary students.

When Glasgow was replaced in 2009 or so, wasn’t it built to hold 1500 students?

Only asking because I don’t know that school very well or how many AAP students it holds that would transfer over to Poe.

I also think that Annandale Terrace, Braddock, or Columbia should hold AAP to form greater continuity at that level so that Canterbury Woods’ 5th grade AAP students don’t suddenly have to transfer over to Poe (if they have the capacity to do so).

Glasgow has a large capacity. They are effectively acknowledging that having 1700-1800 kids at a middle school is too many, regardless of the school’s capacity.

The fix is to move kids from
Glasgow to both Poe and Holmes. It makes sense to also reassign the kids moving out of Glasgow to Poe to Falls Church and those moving to Holmes to Annandale.

It will get Glasgow down to a more manageable size, but it’s going to push up the poverty rates at both Glasgow and Justice. It also means that the recent expansion of Justice to 2500 seats was at least partially unnecessary.

Is that one of the 6th-8th middle schools?

The easiest fix is to make it 7th/8th like the rest of the county and keep the 6th graders at their local elementary schools.

It would be sensible, and it would save miney on bussing.

And then what do you do about the overcrowded elementary schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t explain why they decided to not make a decision. Halley still has an attendance island. Are they too afraid to make a decision?

They got a lot of push back. I think for some areas they’re waiting and hoping the temperature drops? I don’t see that happening but whatever.

Note they backpedaled on changes to the Bren Mar Park split feeder by sending it to Key/Lewis from Holmes/Edison and giving it back it’s 59 sixth graders at Edison.

This is because Beech Tree and Belvedere would have split fed into Poe and Holmes from Glasgow, with Beech Tree having a High School split feeder.

But do note Poe is going to become an AAP center for itself and Holmes, which might result in Glasgow Easing out without needing to lose in boundary students.

When Glasgow was replaced in 2009 or so, wasn’t it built to hold 1500 students?

Only asking because I don’t know that school very well or how many AAP students it holds that would transfer over to Poe.

I also think that Annandale Terrace, Braddock, or Columbia should hold AAP to form greater continuity at that level so that Canterbury Woods’ 5th grade AAP students don’t suddenly have to transfer over to Poe (if they have the capacity to do so).

But Beech Tree is still slated to be a double split feeder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don’t understand why they didn’t do this. But it seems someone very influential wanted to fix wolftrap so that all go to Madison. This should have been fixed the way you described at the middle school level and it would hve prevented that Marshall high school island near Colvin run.

That is wrong - both of these scenarios are neighborhoods unwilling to change, and you are suggesting changing Wolftrap because of their unwillingness. Town of Vienna demanded their split remain at Westbriar. The island near Colvin Run declined joining Wolftrap in hopes of getting into Colvin Run and therefore Langley. Why make changes at Wolftrap as a solution when those two groups were staunchly against change?

So they took a Westbriar attendance island and turned it into a Westbriar/Kilmer/Marshall island? Was this punishment for having the temerity to suggest their kids should attend the elementary school their kids have been bussed past ever since Colvin Run opened? We know who blocked this move, and it’s a reminder that Langley and Madison families get protected while Marshall families get the shaft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t explain why they decided to not make a decision. Halley still has an attendance island. Are they too afraid to make a decision?

They got a lot of push back. I think for some areas they’re waiting and hoping the temperature drops? I don’t see that happening but whatever.

Note they backpedaled on changes to the Bren Mar Park split feeder by sending it to Key/Lewis from Holmes/Edison and giving it back it’s 59 sixth graders at Edison.

This is because Beech Tree and Belvedere would have split fed into Poe and Holmes from Glasgow, with Beech Tree having a High School split feeder.

But do note Poe is going to become an AAP center for itself and Holmes, which might result in Glasgow Easing out without needing to lose in boundary students.

When Glasgow was replaced in 2009 or so, wasn’t it built to hold 1500 students?

Only asking because I don’t know that school very well or how many AAP students it holds that would transfer over to Poe.

I also think that Annandale Terrace, Braddock, or Columbia should hold AAP to form greater continuity at that level so that Canterbury Woods’ 5th grade AAP students don’t suddenly have to transfer over to Poe (if they have the capacity to do so).

Glasgow has a large capacity. They are effectively acknowledging that having 1700-1800 kids at a middle school is too many, regardless of the school’s capacity.

The fix is to move kids from
Glasgow to both Poe and Holmes. It makes sense to also reassign the kids moving out of Glasgow to Poe to Falls Church and those moving to Holmes to Annandale.

It will get Glasgow down to a more manageable size, but it’s going to push up the poverty rates at both Glasgow and Justice. It also means that the recent expansion of Justice to 2500 seats was at least partially unnecessary.

Is that one of the 6th-8th middle schools?

The easiest fix is to make it 7th/8th like the rest of the county and keep the 6th graders at their local elementary schools.

It would be sensible, and it would save miney on bussing.

And then what do you do about the overcrowded elementary schools?

+1. If they turn the three 6-8 middle schools into 7-8 schools there is an immediate need for another ES in the Mason District.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t explain why they decided to not make a decision. Halley still has an attendance island. Are they too afraid to make a decision?

They got a lot of push back. I think for some areas they’re waiting and hoping the temperature drops? I don’t see that happening but whatever.

Note they backpedaled on changes to the Bren Mar Park split feeder by sending it to Key/Lewis from Holmes/Edison and giving it back it’s 59 sixth graders at Edison.

This is because Beech Tree and Belvedere would have split fed into Poe and Holmes from Glasgow, with Beech Tree having a High School split feeder.

But do note Poe is going to become an AAP center for itself and Holmes, which might result in Glasgow Easing out without needing to lose in boundary students.

When Glasgow was replaced in 2009 or so, wasn’t it built to hold 1500 students?

Only asking because I don’t know that school very well or how many AAP students it holds that would transfer over to Poe.

I also think that Annandale Terrace, Braddock, or Columbia should hold AAP to form greater continuity at that level so that Canterbury Woods’ 5th grade AAP students don’t suddenly have to transfer over to Poe (if they have the capacity to do so).

But Beech Tree is still slated to be a double split feeder.

Addressed this earlier. More split feeders is the sacrifice they are prepared to make to accommodate Ricardy Anderson’s years-long quest to reduce the enrollment at Glasgow. That has wide community support, although there may be some backlash when they realize how it’s going to further concentrate poverty at Glasgow and Justice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don’t understand why they didn’t do this. But it seems someone very influential wanted to fix wolftrap so that all go to Madison. This should have been fixed the way you described at the middle school level and it would hve prevented that Marshall high school island near Colvin run.

That is wrong - both of these scenarios are neighborhoods unwilling to change, and you are suggesting changing Wolftrap because of their unwillingness. Town of Vienna demanded their split remain at Westbriar. The island near Colvin Run declined joining Wolftrap in hopes of getting into Colvin Run and therefore Langley. Why make changes at Wolftrap as a solution when those two groups were staunchly against change?

This is not true. Wolftrap declined taking the Westbriar island because it meant shifting some Wolftrap students to Westbriar to make room. It also kept Wolftrap at Marshall and they wanted to move. The compromise was to recommend the island to Colvin Run/Langley, recommend Wolftrap to Madison, and Westbriar to Marshall. But there wasn’t room at Langley and the ToV Westbriar families didn’t want to move, so now we have this mess.

The ToV Westbriar families should have been moved to Thoreau if they wanted to stay at Madison. The Wolftap/Madison families should also have moved to Thoreau to clean up the Kilmer feeding pattern and for capacity reasons. After that they could explore Wolftrap aligning fully with Madison (Thoreau would surely reach or exceed 105% at that point, but clearly no one cares anymore.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're all forgetting that Western Fairfax county was largely ignored here because there will be major changes announced in June. I don't think those changes will be just high school boundaries either.

True, but I don’t think they’ll introduce anything that wasn’t already proposed in scenario 4. And I can’t imagine what they would sneak in. The current proposal fixes Coates and gets Ashvale Dr out of Crossfield, so there were some adjustments. Reid also said they weren’t touching middle school boundaries for Western.

I'm curious about this one b/c the mysterious scenario E puts Lees Corner at Western High. Ashvale currently goes to Crossfield - Franklin - Chantilly. I wonder if making this move now is indication that Scenario E was a false flag.

I don't know if it were a false flag, but if it was, it was an extremely dumb one.

It's just interesting that the only person who knew about that map was the individual who posted it in RIO. She clearly got it from someone in Gatehouse. I think there's at least a couple RIO moms who work for FCPS, so maybe through one of them?

What’s RIO?

Remain in Oakton.

Essentially Crossfield parents who don’t want rezoned to Western.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don’t understand why they didn’t do this. But it seems someone very influential wanted to fix wolftrap so that all go to Madison. This should have been fixed the way you described at the middle school level and it would hve prevented that Marshall high school island near Colvin run.

That is wrong - both of these scenarios are neighborhoods unwilling to change, and you are suggesting changing Wolftrap because of their unwillingness. Town of Vienna demanded their split remain at Westbriar. The island near Colvin Run declined joining Wolftrap in hopes of getting into Colvin Run and therefore Langley. Why make changes at Wolftrap as a solution when those two groups were staunchly against change?

This is not true. Wolftrap declined taking the Westbriar island because it meant shifting some Wolftrap students to Westbriar to make room. It also kept Wolftrap at Marshall and they wanted to move. The compromise was to recommend the island to Colvin Run/Langley, recommend Wolftrap to Madison, and Westbriar to Marshall. But there wasn’t room at Langley and the ToV Westbriar families didn’t want to move, so now we have this mess.

The ToV Westbriar families should have been moved to Thoreau if they wanted to stay at Madison. The Wolftap/Madison families should also have moved to Thoreau to clean up the Kilmer feeding pattern and for capacity reasons. After that they could explore Wolftrap aligning fully with Madison (Thoreau would surely reach or exceed 105% at that point, but clearly no one cares anymore.)

I’m sorry, what does ToV mean?