FCPS HS Boundary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that the overcrowding problem is due to the fact that it is just too easy for a motivated family to not attend a poorly ranked school, and I would look to fix that before addressing geographic boundaries.

And so your solution is to try and prevent those parents from sending their kids to a crappy school? The same crappy schools that many in this thread are trying to keep their kids from attending? 🥴

What people are saying is that it is ridiculous to rezone kids from an adjacent pyramid to Lewis to fill the slots of Lewis zoned kids who are pupil placing out of Lewis to other kids.

There are hundreds of Lewis zoned students pupil placing to other high schools. Yet FCPS wants to rezone a different group of kids to take the spots of the students who are actually living in boundary for Lewis?

Fix the reasons why hundreds of kids transfer out of Lewis first.

See how that works for a few years before even discussing rezoning kids from other schools.

You can't tell Lewis students they cannot transfer for language or AP or other reasons without telling every other student in the county they cannot transfer for language or AP. And that will upset every parent at an IB school and parents of kids at the lower rated AP schools that transfers out, Herndon sends a good number of kids to SLHS for IB. Which will lead to parents demanding that IB go away, which the school board seems to be set on keeping.

And the kids transferring out is not the reason for overcrowding at most of the schools that are over crowded that need relief. Boundaries are redrawn in school districts on a more regular basis then FCPS redraws boundaries. It is normal. I get that a percentage of the population does not like the school that they are moving to and that sucks. I doubt we are hearing from the people who are happy with the process because they are sick of being told that they are a SB employee, a SB member, or that they are not entitled to think that it is a good thing because they are not one of the kids being moved to school X.

You cannot tell 200-something West Springfield Elementary kids (or Rollung Valley, Keene Mill or Hunt Valley kids) that they are going to be rezoned to Lewis to backfill the 200-something Lewis kids who are currently transferring to other high schools.

That is called redrawing the boundaries due to shifting populations. You move kids from over crowded schools to schools that are not full. There is a ripple effect that is going to wash through the system. Some students will be moved. It happens in our area, see Arlington and Loudoun recently. Go read their boards, there were plenty of upset and complaining parents in Arlington's moves.
You think the problem is solved using a method that the School Board and probably a decent percentage of parents don't think is an appropriate solution. I doubt you would be saying what you are saying if your kid was being told they couldn't transfer. The school board is going to decide whose self-interested position is going to be approved, someone is going to lose.

That is a very weak argument for rezoning.

The argument, whether you agree with it or not, is that there are over crowded schools and under crowded schools. Boundaries need to be shifted to take advantage of the existing space across the county.

You don't like that argument because you don't want your child to be moved.

You counter that students at under enrolled schools are allowed to transfer and that those transfer rules should be halted. Kids would stay at their base school so the under capacity schools will have more students.

The problem with your argument, is that kids are not transferring to schools that are over crowded because the over crowded schools are closed to transfer. Your solution does nothing to deal with the fact that there are at least 5 HSs that are well over capacity and need relief. It might be more then five but I seem to recall a list of 5 HSs. That does not touch on all the ESs and MSs that are over capacity. Ending langauge immersion programs and AAP centers and other specialty programs will not fix the issue of over crowding. Which means that your solution, while good for your student, does not fix the larger problem. Re-drawing the boundaries does.

You are focused on a solution that meets your self-interest but that doesn't mean it is the best solution for the County as a whole.

The overcrowded schools are on the opposite end of the county from Lewis et al. The complete opposite end. How are schools on the east side of the county supposed to relieve capacity from Chantilly and McLean?

Sounds absurd doesnt it? Well, say hello to Langley where kids who border Loudoun County and kids who can walk to McLean both attend the same school.

Point is, it's not at all unreasonable to create cascading changes.

Hard to say what you want. If the limited number of Langley kids who live within walking distance to McLean HS (and they would have to cross a major road) were moved there, they'd need to compensate by moving even more neighborhoods further west to Langley. When you build, and then expand, a school that's in the northeastern corner of the county and a few miles from other high schools to the south (McLean and Marshall), it stands to follow that its attendance area will mostly lie to the west.

Or they’d have to finally start taking Tysons apartments.

They'll probably end up doing that anyway to eliminate the split feeder at Spring Hill but to my point those apartments are also to the west of Langley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The differences for WSHS feeders is really small as far as drive time and makeup. They could send any one of them, but OH would be an island and WSES boundary is directly across the street from Irving. The others are closer to WSHS than HV and HV shares a border with Lewis. Saying one school is 5 minutes closer actually doesnt help any case and really just highlights how feasible it is. It’s really a crapshoot.

They could cut everything off south of the parkway and send them to Saratoga, redo all the OH/HV elem boundaries, and send all of Sangster to LB. Then stop transfers out of Lewis and this would end up probably at a desired enrollment result? For both HS.

I think this might be key. Move the very few students at Rolling Valley who are zoned to Lewis to Saratoga ES/Key/Lewis. RVES is projected to be well under capacity, but could then take on some Cardinal Forest and Orange Hunt kids since they share borders with both of those schools. That would eliminate the split feeder at Rolling Valley, too. How full is Garfield? They could move Daventry to Garfield/Key/Lewis and WSES could also take on some Cardinal Forest kids. Both Cardinal Forest and Orange Hunt are supposed to be way over capacity and neighboring elementaries have room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that the overcrowding problem is due to the fact that it is just too easy for a motivated family to not attend a poorly ranked school, and I would look to fix that before addressing geographic boundaries.

And so your solution is to try and prevent those parents from sending their kids to a crappy school? The same crappy schools that many in this thread are trying to keep their kids from attending? 🥴

What people are saying is that it is ridiculous to rezone kids from an adjacent pyramid to Lewis to fill the slots of Lewis zoned kids who are pupil placing out of Lewis to other kids.

There are hundreds of Lewis zoned students pupil placing to other high schools. Yet FCPS wants to rezone a different group of kids to take the spots of the students who are actually living in boundary for Lewis?

Fix the reasons why hundreds of kids transfer out of Lewis first.

See how that works for a few years before even discussing rezoning kids from other schools.

You can't tell Lewis students they cannot transfer for language or AP or other reasons without telling every other student in the county they cannot transfer for language or AP. And that will upset every parent at an IB school and parents of kids at the lower rated AP schools that transfers out, Herndon sends a good number of kids to SLHS for IB. Which will lead to parents demanding that IB go away, which the school board seems to be set on keeping.

And the kids transferring out is not the reason for overcrowding at most of the schools that are over crowded that need relief. Boundaries are redrawn in school districts on a more regular basis then FCPS redraws boundaries. It is normal. I get that a percentage of the population does not like the school that they are moving to and that sucks. I doubt we are hearing from the people who are happy with the process because they are sick of being told that they are a SB employee, a SB member, or that they are not entitled to think that it is a good thing because they are not one of the kids being moved to school X.

You cannot tell 200-something West Springfield Elementary kids (or Rollung Valley, Keene Mill or Hunt Valley kids) that they are going to be rezoned to Lewis to backfill the 200-something Lewis kids who are currently transferring to other high schools.

That is called redrawing the boundaries due to shifting populations. You move kids from over crowded schools to schools that are not full. There is a ripple effect that is going to wash through the system. Some students will be moved. It happens in our area, see Arlington and Loudoun recently. Go read their boards, there were plenty of upset and complaining parents in Arlington's moves.
You think the problem is solved using a method that the School Board and probably a decent percentage of parents don't think is an appropriate solution. I doubt you would be saying what you are saying if your kid was being told they couldn't transfer. The school board is going to decide whose self-interested position is going to be approved, someone is going to lose.

That is a very weak argument for rezoning.

The argument, whether you agree with it or not, is that there are over crowded schools and under crowded schools. Boundaries need to be shifted to take advantage of the existing space across the county.

You don't like that argument because you don't want your child to be moved.

You counter that students at under enrolled schools are allowed to transfer and that those transfer rules should be halted. Kids would stay at their base school so the under capacity schools will have more students.

The problem with your argument, is that kids are not transferring to schools that are over crowded because the over crowded schools are closed to transfer. Your solution does nothing to deal with the fact that there are at least 5 HSs that are well over capacity and need relief. It might be more then five but I seem to recall a list of 5 HSs. That does not touch on all the ESs and MSs that are over capacity. Ending langauge immersion programs and AAP centers and other specialty programs will not fix the issue of over crowding. Which means that your solution, while good for your student, does not fix the larger problem. Re-drawing the boundaries does.

You are focused on a solution that meets your self-interest but that doesn't mean it is the best solution for the County as a whole.

The overcrowded schools are on the opposite end of the county from Lewis et al. The complete opposite end. How are schools on the east side of the county supposed to relieve capacity from Chantilly and McLean?

Sounds absurd doesnt it? Well, say hello to Langley where kids who border Loudoun County and kids who can walk to McLean both attend the same school.

Point is, it's not at all unreasonable to create cascading changes.

But that’s not relieving capacity, and you are talking about one of the least populated portions of the county. You know Langley is under capacity, right?

Point is, it’s very unreasonable to create cascading changes when the solution is in search of a problem and actually likely to make the system much worse than it currently is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that the overcrowding problem is due to the fact that it is just too easy for a motivated family to not attend a poorly ranked school, and I would look to fix that before addressing geographic boundaries.

And so your solution is to try and prevent those parents from sending their kids to a crappy school? The same crappy schools that many in this thread are trying to keep their kids from attending? 🥴

What people are saying is that it is ridiculous to rezone kids from an adjacent pyramid to Lewis to fill the slots of Lewis zoned kids who are pupil placing out of Lewis to other kids.

There are hundreds of Lewis zoned students pupil placing to other high schools. Yet FCPS wants to rezone a different group of kids to take the spots of the students who are actually living in boundary for Lewis?

Fix the reasons why hundreds of kids transfer out of Lewis first.

See how that works for a few years before even discussing rezoning kids from other schools.

You can't tell Lewis students they cannot transfer for language or AP or other reasons without telling every other student in the county they cannot transfer for language or AP. And that will upset every parent at an IB school and parents of kids at the lower rated AP schools that transfers out, Herndon sends a good number of kids to SLHS for IB. Which will lead to parents demanding that IB go away, which the school board seems to be set on keeping.

And the kids transferring out is not the reason for overcrowding at most of the schools that are over crowded that need relief. Boundaries are redrawn in school districts on a more regular basis then FCPS redraws boundaries. It is normal. I get that a percentage of the population does not like the school that they are moving to and that sucks. I doubt we are hearing from the people who are happy with the process because they are sick of being told that they are a SB employee, a SB member, or that they are not entitled to think that it is a good thing because they are not one of the kids being moved to school X.

You cannot tell 200-something West Springfield Elementary kids (or Rollung Valley, Keene Mill or Hunt Valley kids) that they are going to be rezoned to Lewis to backfill the 200-something Lewis kids who are currently transferring to other high schools.

That is called redrawing the boundaries due to shifting populations. You move kids from over crowded schools to schools that are not full. There is a ripple effect that is going to wash through the system. Some students will be moved. It happens in our area, see Arlington and Loudoun recently. Go read their boards, there were plenty of upset and complaining parents in Arlington's moves.
You think the problem is solved using a method that the School Board and probably a decent percentage of parents don't think is an appropriate solution. I doubt you would be saying what you are saying if your kid was being told they couldn't transfer. The school board is going to decide whose self-interested position is going to be approved, someone is going to lose.

That is a very weak argument for rezoning.

The argument, whether you agree with it or not, is that there are over crowded schools and under crowded schools. Boundaries need to be shifted to take advantage of the existing space across the county.

You don't like that argument because you don't want your child to be moved.

You counter that students at under enrolled schools are allowed to transfer and that those transfer rules should be halted. Kids would stay at their base school so the under capacity schools will have more students.

The problem with your argument, is that kids are not transferring to schools that are over crowded because the over crowded schools are closed to transfer. Your solution does nothing to deal with the fact that there are at least 5 HSs that are well over capacity and need relief. It might be more then five but I seem to recall a list of 5 HSs. That does not touch on all the ESs and MSs that are over capacity. Ending langauge immersion programs and AAP centers and other specialty programs will not fix the issue of over crowding. Which means that your solution, while good for your student, does not fix the larger problem. Re-drawing the boundaries does.

You are focused on a solution that meets your self-interest but that doesn't mean it is the best solution for the County as a whole.

The overcrowded schools are on the opposite end of the county from Lewis et al. The complete opposite end. How are schools on the east side of the county supposed to relieve capacity from Chantilly and McLean?

Sounds absurd doesnt it? Well, say hello to Langley where kids who border Loudoun County and kids who can walk to McLean both attend the same school.

Point is, it's not at all unreasonable to create cascading changes.

But that’s not relieving capacity, and you are talking about one of the least populated portions of the county. You know Langley is under capacity, right?

Point is, it’s very unreasonable to create cascading changes when the solution is in search of a problem and actually likely to make the system much worse than it currently is.

They are keen to move part of Great Falls to Herndon. The irony is that Langley will still be wealthy and when Herndon ends up with more kids and more chaotic it will be like Glasgow MS, where some parents are asking for the school to be downsized even though it’s not particularly overcrowded relative to design capacity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The differences for WSHS feeders is really small as far as drive time and makeup. They could send any one of them, but OH would be an island and WSES boundary is directly across the street from Irving. The others are closer to WSHS than HV and HV shares a border with Lewis. Saying one school is 5 minutes closer actually doesnt help any case and really just highlights how feasible it is. It’s really a crapshoot.

They could cut everything off south of the parkway and send them to Saratoga, redo all the OH/HV elem boundaries, and send all of Sangster to LB. Then stop transfers out of Lewis and this would end up probably at a desired enrollment result? For both HS.

I think this might be key. Move the very few students at Rolling Valley who are zoned to Lewis to Saratoga ES/Key/Lewis. RVES is projected to be well under capacity, but could then take on some Cardinal Forest and Orange Hunt kids since they share borders with both of those schools. That would eliminate the split feeder at Rolling Valley, too. How full is Garfield? They could move Daventry to Garfield/Key/Lewis and WSES could also take on some Cardinal Forest kids. Both Cardinal Forest and Orange Hunt are supposed to be way over capacity and neighboring elementaries have room.

We are just playing fantasy WSHS pyramid boundary adjustments.

For example, you could move the eastern WSES neighborhood that used to be in Lewis (Daventry) from WSES (89% capacity) to Garfield (77% capacity), the split feed part of RVES (92% capacity) to Saratoga (77% capacity), the south-of-the-parkway part of HVES (93% capacity) to Newintgon Forest (92% capacity), and the western split-feed part of KMES (105% capacity) to White Oaks (85% capacity). Then give some OHES (105% capacity) to HVES and some of CFES (103% capacity) to RVES. This would balance all of the existing WSHS elementary schools, reduce the WSHS population and increase utilization of Garfield, Saratoga, Lewis, Newington and SoCo HS.

But This also would ruffle the most feathers in the WSHS pyramid.

I still think they do nothing. It is the easiest political move.

The second easiest political move is to shift WSES to Lewis because the upset residents won't be in the Springfield SB member's district to campaign against her in 2027 and the Franconia SB member would probably welcome the statistical boost to one of her schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that the overcrowding problem is due to the fact that it is just too easy for a motivated family to not attend a poorly ranked school, and I would look to fix that before addressing geographic boundaries.

And so your solution is to try and prevent those parents from sending their kids to a crappy school? The same crappy schools that many in this thread are trying to keep their kids from attending? 🥴

What people are saying is that it is ridiculous to rezone kids from an adjacent pyramid to Lewis to fill the slots of Lewis zoned kids who are pupil placing out of Lewis to other kids.

There are hundreds of Lewis zoned students pupil placing to other high schools. Yet FCPS wants to rezone a different group of kids to take the spots of the students who are actually living in boundary for Lewis?

Fix the reasons why hundreds of kids transfer out of Lewis first.

See how that works for a few years before even discussing rezoning kids from other schools.

You can't tell Lewis students they cannot transfer for language or AP or other reasons without telling every other student in the county they cannot transfer for language or AP. And that will upset every parent at an IB school and parents of kids at the lower rated AP schools that transfers out, Herndon sends a good number of kids to SLHS for IB. Which will lead to parents demanding that IB go away, which the school board seems to be set on keeping.

And the kids transferring out is not the reason for overcrowding at most of the schools that are over crowded that need relief. Boundaries are redrawn in school districts on a more regular basis then FCPS redraws boundaries. It is normal. I get that a percentage of the population does not like the school that they are moving to and that sucks. I doubt we are hearing from the people who are happy with the process because they are sick of being told that they are a SB employee, a SB member, or that they are not entitled to think that it is a good thing because they are not one of the kids being moved to school X.

You cannot tell 200-something West Springfield Elementary kids (or Rollung Valley, Keene Mill or Hunt Valley kids) that they are going to be rezoned to Lewis to backfill the 200-something Lewis kids who are currently transferring to other high schools.

That is called redrawing the boundaries due to shifting populations. You move kids from over crowded schools to schools that are not full. There is a ripple effect that is going to wash through the system. Some students will be moved. It happens in our area, see Arlington and Loudoun recently. Go read their boards, there were plenty of upset and complaining parents in Arlington's moves.
You think the problem is solved using a method that the School Board and probably a decent percentage of parents don't think is an appropriate solution. I doubt you would be saying what you are saying if your kid was being told they couldn't transfer. The school board is going to decide whose self-interested position is going to be approved, someone is going to lose.

That is a very weak argument for rezoning.

The argument, whether you agree with it or not, is that there are over crowded schools and under crowded schools. Boundaries need to be shifted to take advantage of the existing space across the county.

You don't like that argument because you don't want your child to be moved.

You counter that students at under enrolled schools are allowed to transfer and that those transfer rules should be halted. Kids would stay at their base school so the under capacity schools will have more students.

The problem with your argument, is that kids are not transferring to schools that are over crowded because the over crowded schools are closed to transfer. Your solution does nothing to deal with the fact that there are at least 5 HSs that are well over capacity and need relief. It might be more then five but I seem to recall a list of 5 HSs. That does not touch on all the ESs and MSs that are over capacity. Ending langauge immersion programs and AAP centers and other specialty programs will not fix the issue of over crowding. Which means that your solution, while good for your student, does not fix the larger problem. Re-drawing the boundaries does.

You are focused on a solution that meets your self-interest but that doesn't mean it is the best solution for the County as a whole.

The overcrowded schools are on the opposite end of the county from Lewis et al. The complete opposite end. How are schools on the east side of the county supposed to relieve capacity from Chantilly and McLean?

Sounds absurd doesnt it? Well, say hello to Langley where kids who border Loudoun County and kids who can walk to McLean both attend the same school.

Point is, it's not at all unreasonable to create cascading changes.

That’s not a point at all. Langley has a huge border because the majority of the land area is quite exurban and under populated. You could say the same for Lake Braddock and South County’s boundaries. SC’s boundary extends into Mason Neck. Do a lot of people live there? No the vast majority of SC’s students live in dense residential neighborhoods in Crosspointe and Laurel Hill. But the relatively few kids in far off Great Falls and Mason Neck and Clifton have to go to school somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that the overcrowding problem is due to the fact that it is just too easy for a motivated family to not attend a poorly ranked school, and I would look to fix that before addressing geographic boundaries.

And so your solution is to try and prevent those parents from sending their kids to a crappy school? The same crappy schools that many in this thread are trying to keep their kids from attending? 🥴

What people are saying is that it is ridiculous to rezone kids from an adjacent pyramid to Lewis to fill the slots of Lewis zoned kids who are pupil placing out of Lewis to other kids.

There are hundreds of Lewis zoned students pupil placing to other high schools. Yet FCPS wants to rezone a different group of kids to take the spots of the students who are actually living in boundary for Lewis?

Fix the reasons why hundreds of kids transfer out of Lewis first.

See how that works for a few years before even discussing rezoning kids from other schools.

You can't tell Lewis students they cannot transfer for language or AP or other reasons without telling every other student in the county they cannot transfer for language or AP. And that will upset every parent at an IB school and parents of kids at the lower rated AP schools that transfers out, Herndon sends a good number of kids to SLHS for IB. Which will lead to parents demanding that IB go away, which the school board seems to be set on keeping.

And the kids transferring out is not the reason for overcrowding at most of the schools that are over crowded that need relief. Boundaries are redrawn in school districts on a more regular basis then FCPS redraws boundaries. It is normal. I get that a percentage of the population does not like the school that they are moving to and that sucks. I doubt we are hearing from the people who are happy with the process because they are sick of being told that they are a SB employee, a SB member, or that they are not entitled to think that it is a good thing because they are not one of the kids being moved to school X.

You cannot tell 200-something West Springfield Elementary kids (or Rollung Valley, Keene Mill or Hunt Valley kids) that they are going to be rezoned to Lewis to backfill the 200-something Lewis kids who are currently transferring to other high schools.

That is called redrawing the boundaries due to shifting populations. You move kids from over crowded schools to schools that are not full. There is a ripple effect that is going to wash through the system. Some students will be moved. It happens in our area, see Arlington and Loudoun recently. Go read their boards, there were plenty of upset and complaining parents in Arlington's moves.
You think the problem is solved using a method that the School Board and probably a decent percentage of parents don't think is an appropriate solution. I doubt you would be saying what you are saying if your kid was being told they couldn't transfer. The school board is going to decide whose self-interested position is going to be approved, someone is going to lose.

That is a very weak argument for rezoning.

The argument, whether you agree with it or not, is that there are over crowded schools and under crowded schools. Boundaries need to be shifted to take advantage of the existing space across the county.

You don't like that argument because you don't want your child to be moved.

You counter that students at under enrolled schools are allowed to transfer and that those transfer rules should be halted. Kids would stay at their base school so the under capacity schools will have more students.

The problem with your argument, is that kids are not transferring to schools that are over crowded because the over crowded schools are closed to transfer. Your solution does nothing to deal with the fact that there are at least 5 HSs that are well over capacity and need relief. It might be more then five but I seem to recall a list of 5 HSs. That does not touch on all the ESs and MSs that are over capacity. Ending langauge immersion programs and AAP centers and other specialty programs will not fix the issue of over crowding. Which means that your solution, while good for your student, does not fix the larger problem. Re-drawing the boundaries does.

You are focused on a solution that meets your self-interest but that doesn't mean it is the best solution for the County as a whole.

The overcrowded schools are on the opposite end of the county from Lewis et al. The complete opposite end. How are schools on the east side of the county supposed to relieve capacity from Chantilly and McLean?

Sounds absurd doesnt it? Well, say hello to Langley where kids who border Loudoun County and kids who can walk to McLean both attend the same school.

Point is, it's not at all unreasonable to create cascading changes.

That’s not a point at all. Langley has a huge border because the majority of the land area is quite exurban and under populated. You could say the same for Lake Braddock and South County’s boundaries. SC’s boundary extends into Mason Neck. Do a lot of people live there? No the vast majority of SC’s students live in dense residential neighborhoods in Crosspointe and Laurel Hill. But the relatively few kids in far off Great Falls and Mason Neck and Clifton have to go to school somewhere.

What about the far flung students with Herndon addresses who live near to Herndon but happen to be zoned for Langley?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that the overcrowding problem is due to the fact that it is just too easy for a motivated family to not attend a poorly ranked school, and I would look to fix that before addressing geographic boundaries.

And so your solution is to try and prevent those parents from sending their kids to a crappy school? The same crappy schools that many in this thread are trying to keep their kids from attending? 🥴

What people are saying is that it is ridiculous to rezone kids from an adjacent pyramid to Lewis to fill the slots of Lewis zoned kids who are pupil placing out of Lewis to other kids.

There are hundreds of Lewis zoned students pupil placing to other high schools. Yet FCPS wants to rezone a different group of kids to take the spots of the students who are actually living in boundary for Lewis?

Fix the reasons why hundreds of kids transfer out of Lewis first.

See how that works for a few years before even discussing rezoning kids from other schools.

You can't tell Lewis students they cannot transfer for language or AP or other reasons without telling every other student in the county they cannot transfer for language or AP. And that will upset every parent at an IB school and parents of kids at the lower rated AP schools that transfers out, Herndon sends a good number of kids to SLHS for IB. Which will lead to parents demanding that IB go away, which the school board seems to be set on keeping.

And the kids transferring out is not the reason for overcrowding at most of the schools that are over crowded that need relief. Boundaries are redrawn in school districts on a more regular basis then FCPS redraws boundaries. It is normal. I get that a percentage of the population does not like the school that they are moving to and that sucks. I doubt we are hearing from the people who are happy with the process because they are sick of being told that they are a SB employee, a SB member, or that they are not entitled to think that it is a good thing because they are not one of the kids being moved to school X.

You cannot tell 200-something West Springfield Elementary kids (or Rollung Valley, Keene Mill or Hunt Valley kids) that they are going to be rezoned to Lewis to backfill the 200-something Lewis kids who are currently transferring to other high schools.

That is called redrawing the boundaries due to shifting populations. You move kids from over crowded schools to schools that are not full. There is a ripple effect that is going to wash through the system. Some students will be moved. It happens in our area, see Arlington and Loudoun recently. Go read their boards, there were plenty of upset and complaining parents in Arlington's moves.
You think the problem is solved using a method that the School Board and probably a decent percentage of parents don't think is an appropriate solution. I doubt you would be saying what you are saying if your kid was being told they couldn't transfer. The school board is going to decide whose self-interested position is going to be approved, someone is going to lose.

That is a very weak argument for rezoning.

The argument, whether you agree with it or not, is that there are over crowded schools and under crowded schools. Boundaries need to be shifted to take advantage of the existing space across the county.

You don't like that argument because you don't want your child to be moved.

You counter that students at under enrolled schools are allowed to transfer and that those transfer rules should be halted. Kids would stay at their base school so the under capacity schools will have more students.

The problem with your argument, is that kids are not transferring to schools that are over crowded because the over crowded schools are closed to transfer. Your solution does nothing to deal with the fact that there are at least 5 HSs that are well over capacity and need relief. It might be more then five but I seem to recall a list of 5 HSs. That does not touch on all the ESs and MSs that are over capacity. Ending langauge immersion programs and AAP centers and other specialty programs will not fix the issue of over crowding. Which means that your solution, while good for your student, does not fix the larger problem. Re-drawing the boundaries does.

You are focused on a solution that meets your self-interest but that doesn't mean it is the best solution for the County as a whole.

The overcrowded schools are on the opposite end of the county from Lewis et al. The complete opposite end. How are schools on the east side of the county supposed to relieve capacity from Chantilly and McLean?

Sounds absurd doesnt it? Well, say hello to Langley where kids who border Loudoun County and kids who can walk to McLean both attend the same school.

Point is, it's not at all unreasonable to create cascading changes.

That’s not a point at all. Langley has a huge border because the majority of the land area is quite exurban and under populated. You could say the same for Lake Braddock and South County’s boundaries. SC’s boundary extends into Mason Neck. Do a lot of people live there? No the vast majority of SC’s students live in dense residential neighborhoods in Crosspointe and Laurel Hill. But the relatively few kids in far off Great Falls and Mason Neck and Clifton have to go to school somewhere.

What about the far flung students with Herndon addresses who live near to Herndon but happen to be zoned for Langley?

Nothing on the other side of Route 7 with a Herndon or Reston address should be zoned to Langley. Those really were the one-off deals cut by developers or pushed through by School Board members years ago as special favors.

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I think that the overcrowding problem is due to the fact that it is just too easy for a motivated family to not attend a poorly ranked school, and I would look to fix that before addressing geographic boundaries.

And so your solution is to try and prevent those parents from sending their kids to a crappy school? The same crappy schools that many in this thread are trying to keep their kids from attending? 🥴

What people are saying is that it is ridiculous to rezone kids from an adjacent pyramid to Lewis to fill the slots of Lewis zoned kids who are pupil placing out of Lewis to other kids.

There are hundreds of Lewis zoned students pupil placing to other high schools. Yet FCPS wants to rezone a different group of kids to take the spots of the students who are actually living in boundary for Lewis?

Fix the reasons why hundreds of kids transfer out of Lewis first.

See how that works for a few years before even discussing rezoning kids from other schools.

You can't tell Lewis students they cannot transfer for language or AP or other reasons without telling every other student in the county they cannot transfer for language or AP. And that will upset every parent at an IB school and parents of kids at the lower rated AP schools that transfers out, Herndon sends a good number of kids to SLHS for IB. Which will lead to parents demanding that IB go away, which the school board seems to be set on keeping.

And the kids transferring out is not the reason for overcrowding at most of the schools that are over crowded that need relief. Boundaries are redrawn in school districts on a more regular basis then FCPS redraws boundaries. It is normal. I get that a percentage of the population does not like the school that they are moving to and that sucks. I doubt we are hearing from the people who are happy with the process because they are sick of being told that they are a SB employee, a SB member, or that they are not entitled to think that it is a good thing because they are not one of the kids being moved to school X.

You cannot tell 200-something West Springfield Elementary kids (or Rollung Valley, Keene Mill or Hunt Valley kids) that they are going to be rezoned to Lewis to backfill the 200-something Lewis kids who are currently transferring to other high schools.

That is called redrawing the boundaries due to shifting populations. You move kids from over crowded schools to schools that are not full. There is a ripple effect that is going to wash through the system. Some students will be moved. It happens in our area, see Arlington and Loudoun recently. Go read their boards, there were plenty of upset and complaining parents in Arlington's moves.
You think the problem is solved using a method that the School Board and probably a decent percentage of parents don't think is an appropriate solution. I doubt you would be saying what you are saying if your kid was being told they couldn't transfer. The school board is going to decide whose self-interested position is going to be approved, someone is going to lose.

That is a very weak argument for rezoning.

The argument, whether you agree with it or not, is that there are over crowded schools and under crowded schools. Boundaries need to be shifted to take advantage of the existing space across the county.

You don't like that argument because you don't want your child to be moved.

You counter that students at under enrolled schools are allowed to transfer and that those transfer rules should be halted. Kids would stay at their base school so the under capacity schools will have more students.

The problem with your argument, is that kids are not transferring to schools that are over crowded because the over crowded schools are closed to transfer. Your solution does nothing to deal with the fact that there are at least 5 HSs that are well over capacity and need relief. It might be more then five but I seem to recall a list of 5 HSs. That does not touch on all the ESs and MSs that are over capacity. Ending langauge immersion programs and AAP centers and other specialty programs will not fix the issue of over crowding. Which means that your solution, while good for your student, does not fix the larger problem. Re-drawing the boundaries does.

You are focused on a solution that meets your self-interest but that doesn't mean it is the best solution for the County as a whole.

The overcrowded schools are on the opposite end of the county from Lewis et al. The complete opposite end. How are schools on the east side of the county supposed to relieve capacity from Chantilly and McLean?

Sounds absurd doesnt it? Well, say hello to Langley where kids who border Loudoun County and kids who can walk to McLean both attend the same school.

Point is, it's not at all unreasonable to create cascading changes.

That’s not a point at all. Langley has a huge border because the majority of the land area is quite exurban and under populated. You could say the same for Lake Braddock and South County’s boundaries. SC’s boundary extends into Mason Neck. Do a lot of people live there? No the vast majority of SC’s students live in dense residential neighborhoods in Crosspointe and Laurel Hill. But the relatively few kids in far off Great Falls and Mason Neck and Clifton have to go to school somewhere.

What about the far flung students with Herndon addresses who live near to Herndon but happen to be zoned for Langley?

They have to be zoned somewhere and if they’re marginally closer to Langley, oh well. It’s a haul no matter what. I’m sure all of Mason Neck is probably physically closer to Hayfield or even Mount Vernon but it’s so few kids it doesn’t make a big difference.

Now if Langley was bursting at the seams, kids packed in trainers, no room to move in the hallways etc. and Herndon had excess capacity, and the choice was between a $$$ expansion at Langley or moving some kids to Herndon, yes I would be in favor of moving kids. But that’s not the situation so might as well just leave it as is.

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I think that the overcrowding problem is due to the fact that it is just too easy for a motivated family to not attend a poorly ranked school, and I would look to fix that before addressing geographic boundaries.

And so your solution is to try and prevent those parents from sending their kids to a crappy school? The same crappy schools that many in this thread are trying to keep their kids from attending? 🥴

What people are saying is that it is ridiculous to rezone kids from an adjacent pyramid to Lewis to fill the slots of Lewis zoned kids who are pupil placing out of Lewis to other kids.

There are hundreds of Lewis zoned students pupil placing to other high schools. Yet FCPS wants to rezone a different group of kids to take the spots of the students who are actually living in boundary for Lewis?

Fix the reasons why hundreds of kids transfer out of Lewis first.

See how that works for a few years before even discussing rezoning kids from other schools.

You can't tell Lewis students they cannot transfer for language or AP or other reasons without telling every other student in the county they cannot transfer for language or AP. And that will upset every parent at an IB school and parents of kids at the lower rated AP schools that transfers out, Herndon sends a good number of kids to SLHS for IB. Which will lead to parents demanding that IB go away, which the school board seems to be set on keeping.

And the kids transferring out is not the reason for overcrowding at most of the schools that are over crowded that need relief. Boundaries are redrawn in school districts on a more regular basis then FCPS redraws boundaries. It is normal. I get that a percentage of the population does not like the school that they are moving to and that sucks. I doubt we are hearing from the people who are happy with the process because they are sick of being told that they are a SB employee, a SB member, or that they are not entitled to think that it is a good thing because they are not one of the kids being moved to school X.

You cannot tell 200-something West Springfield Elementary kids (or Rollung Valley, Keene Mill or Hunt Valley kids) that they are going to be rezoned to Lewis to backfill the 200-something Lewis kids who are currently transferring to other high schools.

That is called redrawing the boundaries due to shifting populations. You move kids from over crowded schools to schools that are not full. There is a ripple effect that is going to wash through the system. Some students will be moved. It happens in our area, see Arlington and Loudoun recently. Go read their boards, there were plenty of upset and complaining parents in Arlington's moves.
You think the problem is solved using a method that the School Board and probably a decent percentage of parents don't think is an appropriate solution. I doubt you would be saying what you are saying if your kid was being told they couldn't transfer. The school board is going to decide whose self-interested position is going to be approved, someone is going to lose.

That is a very weak argument for rezoning.

The argument, whether you agree with it or not, is that there are over crowded schools and under crowded schools. Boundaries need to be shifted to take advantage of the existing space across the county.

You don't like that argument because you don't want your child to be moved.

You counter that students at under enrolled schools are allowed to transfer and that those transfer rules should be halted. Kids would stay at their base school so the under capacity schools will have more students.

The problem with your argument, is that kids are not transferring to schools that are over crowded because the over crowded schools are closed to transfer. Your solution does nothing to deal with the fact that there are at least 5 HSs that are well over capacity and need relief. It might be more then five but I seem to recall a list of 5 HSs. That does not touch on all the ESs and MSs that are over capacity. Ending langauge immersion programs and AAP centers and other specialty programs will not fix the issue of over crowding. Which means that your solution, while good for your student, does not fix the larger problem. Re-drawing the boundaries does.

You are focused on a solution that meets your self-interest but that doesn't mean it is the best solution for the County as a whole.

The overcrowded schools are on the opposite end of the county from Lewis et al. The complete opposite end. How are schools on the east side of the county supposed to relieve capacity from Chantilly and McLean?

Sounds absurd doesnt it? Well, say hello to Langley where kids who border Loudoun County and kids who can walk to McLean both attend the same school.

Point is, it's not at all unreasonable to create cascading changes.

Hard to say what you want. If the limited number of Langley kids who live within walking distance to McLean HS (and they would have to cross a major road) were moved there, they'd need to compensate by moving even more neighborhoods further west to Langley. When you build, and then expand, a school that's in the northeastern corner of the county and a few miles from other high schools to the south (McLean and Marshall), it stands to follow that its attendance area will mostly lie to the west.

Or they’d have to finally start taking Tysons apartments.

There is an affordable housing building that’s being built in Tyson’s but somehow going to be slated for Marshall which is already over capacity. Makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the Hunt Valley posters are making an excellent case for why Forestville should move from Langley to Herndon.

What does one thing have to do with the other? Nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the stats for pupil placements? I can never find that in the FCPS website. I’m interested to see how many students follow their AAP pyramid and pupil place to that high school to stay with their cohorts. I still think a huge program reform would be to make sure there’s a dedicated AAP center in every high school pyramid, and to either put AAP into every middle school, or drop the program at that level. The AAP clusters bounce all over the place.

Why doesn’t Wolftrap go to Westbriar to follow cohorts to Kilmer? Why does Forestville go to Forest Edge instead of Colvin Run to tie into Cooper? Why does Wales Mill go to Hunters Woods instead of Navy to feed into Carson? And those are the easy ones…

AAP centers should be eliminated, period.

[Anonymous]

I love how DCUM thinks it’s the planning committee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the stats for pupil placements? I can never find that in the FCPS website. I’m interested to see how many students follow their AAP pyramid and pupil place to that high school to stay with their cohorts. I still think a huge program reform would be to make sure there’s a dedicated AAP center in every high school pyramid, and to either put AAP into every middle school, or drop the program at that level. The AAP clusters bounce all over the place.

Why doesn’t Wolftrap go to Westbriar to follow cohorts to Kilmer? Why does Forestville go to Forest Edge instead of Colvin Run to tie into Cooper? Why does Wales Mill go to Hunters Woods instead of Navy to feed into Carson? And those are the easy ones…

AAP centers should be eliminated, period.

AAP centers should stay, period.

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Anonymous wrote:Just wondering. . . do the numbers reflect students in AAP at Lake Braddock who then return to WSHS for high school. They do not go to Irving, but come from WSHS feeder elementary schools.

Yes, the 10-YR average of +178 students attending WSHS above the comparable cohort from Irving MS (7th and 8th graders (x2)) would include the kids coming from AAP LB back to WSHS.

There is a lot of variation in this figure from year to year. Here is the historic delta data ...

SY2010: +84
SY2011: +323
SY2012: +273
SY2013: +319
SY2014: +429
SY2015: +258
SY2016: +97
SY2017: -65
SY2018: +87
SY2019: +150
SY2020: +97
SY2021: +97 (COVID)
SY2022: +316 (return from COVID)
SY2023: +308

My point is that the CIP projects assume this WSHS-to-Irving MS delta is as follows:

SY2024: +300
SY2025: +389
SY2026: +304
SY2027: +376
SY2028: +315

That is a very high assumed sustained delta between WSHS and Irving MS. It is an assumed average delta of +337 students. No period 5-year period has that high of an average delta, not even the atypical SY2011-SY2015 period, which saw an average delta of +320 students.

This assumption is nearly the entire reason the school is projected to be above 110% capacity in the future. If it followed historical averages, WSHS will be between 98%-111% capacity in SY2028.

Is the CIP assumption right? Who knows? My point is, there is no emergency at WSHS. The parents are not clamoring about overcrowding. The principal is not saying the students cannot be serviced. The SB should let this play out over the next 5 years. If they are right, the school will approach 117% over capacity and something may need to be done. BUT the SB should definitely not do something so damaging to the community based on projections, especially only a few years out from COVID shocking enrollment numbers. Let the dust settle after the COVID enrollment shocks and see what happens.

But they just had a reno; as a taxpayer, I don’t want to give that school anything/trailer or Modular’s when another school just down the road sits with room.

It’s not just Lewis that is under enrolled, though - it’s also South County and Lake Braddock. Both of which are quite near to WSHS’s borders. LB and WSHS also share a split feeder in Sangster. Point is, if WSHS complains about overcrowding (which there is no indication is real at this point in time) there’s an easy fix in dumping their split feeder entirely to LB, thus decreasing eventual enrollment at WSHS by 100-200 I’m guessing. That would also fit with the “stated” and “on paper” goal of reducing split feeders and attendance islands. In fact, that’s such a no brainer that it would seem very suspicious if that’s not what ends up happening.

Nope. That would only work if you got rid of AAP. Name an AAP school for WSHS that’s isn’t Sangster.

If they plan to get rid of AAP in 4 years, a Sangster shift might work

You really don't know anything about tge area you are pushing to rezone.

Keene Mill Elementary is the other WSHS AAP center.

I know that….it also has an island bordering Lake Braddock boundary that people forget about. Also, is the one school Hunt Valley parents want to throw to Lewis to save themselves.

I don't think pointing out the geography of area is throwing Keene Mill to Lewis.

Geography is Geography.

I don't think that the school board should rezone WSHS, especially since they are using inflated numbers to justify rezoning.

But if they are going to rezone under the guise of saving transportation funds, then they need to consider geography, which puts the 2 closest schools to Lewis with adjacent borders to Lewis, West Springfield Elementary and Keene Mill Elementary, in the forefront of consideration.

Putting the farthest elementary school from Lewis on busses and driving them past 4 WSHS zoned elementary schools, plus 3 Lewis zoned elementary schools, past the mixing bowl and through the literal Franconia Metro Station exit traffic makes no sense.

Don’t think so. If you are already on a bus to middle and high, easier to move. Nothing changes. Keene Walks to Irving, they aren’t touching that. Also, like a PP mentioned….cant remove one of the only AAP centers. Especially if they shift Sangster to Lake Braddock.

Nice try though.

This argument is really grasping for straws.

A 10 minute bus ride down OKM to the elementary schools adjacent to Lewis.

Or a 30 minute bus ride if the traffic cooperates for Hunt Valley.

If you were arguing that Hunt Valley should go to SoCo, you might have some merit.

But HV to Lewis is absurd.

Right! If we are looking to fix under enrollment at Lewis then let's look at the populations that are 5 minutes away from Lewis but zoned for other high schools. The western boundary of Lewis that extends to the intersection of FFX County Pkwy/Franconia springfield pkway is a stretch, would love to hear from those families and how it's impacted their community and their involvement at Lewis.

Just googled hunt valley es to Lewis: 9 minutes
Hunt valley es to WSHS: 7 minutes

How does the alleged travel time at 8 pm mean anything? Nice try, tho, Saratoga Mom.

I did that the other day and it was shorter to Lewis.


That said do you think traffic wouldn’t exist for the other schools you want to send there? Do you think all the kids coming from Keene milk or WSES wouldn’t hit traffic in the mixing bowl mess or turning left onto commerce or attempting to get on frontier? Traffic would be there for all the buses.

Traffic is different (lighter) during the summer than during the school year.