J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trans women are called trans for a reason. They were not born women. The very words used to describe this group acknowledges that. You can argue until the cows come home, no demand for inclusion will change that fact.

That said, there are a lot of posts about JK and this issue of menstruation. At the end of the day, she's correct - it is certainly a fact that only women can menstruate. This is undisputed. And don't tell me me about PCOS and menopause because those are just biological women who can't menstruate.

Is saying only women menstruate exclusionary? Yes. So what?

+1. Go fight your own trans battles and leave real women out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does it harm trans women to call them trans women?

Because they’re deluded men and need to usurp and undermine women in any way possible, and feel entitled to do so.

This hateful crap is exactly what fuels my anger.

I don’t see any of the JKR-minded people denouncing this.

I posted a few pages back specifically saying I did not support language like this. And I’ll reaffirm that I think this poster does sound hateful and bigoted

And I was doing something besides DCUM for 30 minutes. I agree with PP that this is hate language.

[Anonymous]

So PP really thinks about omen who work as waxers, who are overwhelmingly poor and immigrant women, should be sued for refusing to touch p*nis? Wow...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does giving Trans women rights diminish biological women's rights?

We're all in the same group as "female." I don't care if trans women want to join. The more the merrier.

THIS

I guess you were never an athlete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have, at length, described how the consequences of how menstruation is treated holds women back in the US and very seriously, around the world. I am not going to repeat myself to have you ignore it again.

I have acknowledged that trans men also menstruate, for different amounts of time through their journeys. I feel like trans men understand why its so important that women are able to advocate for women's rights which is why they are not the loudest voices in this fight.

A very small percentage of trans men may face issues related to menstruation. Trans men in women's prisons for example. But in many ways, transitioning frees trans mens from these issues. Once they transition past that point, they never have to deal with having a period again. They never have to deal with someone saying they can't be trusted because they're PMSing. They get all the benefits of being viewed as a man.

I think trans men need advocacy specifically tailored to their needs. How does hormone treatment alter their menstrual cycle? How can a trans man have a baby, if he wants to, while continuing or supporting his transition? These are specific things. Men also get breast cancer but breast cancer research focuses on women who experience the vast majority of issues related to breast cancer.

So you don’t want to include trans men on menstruation issues because there aren’t many of them?

PP has explained this several times in detail. Women are a presently and historically marginalized group, with menses being one of the core things used to marginalize us. Erasing "women" to be inclusive of trans-men is putting inclusive language of a very small number of people ahead of the need to continually advocate for women's access to education and opportunity. It also reinforces the tradition of preferential treatment towards men, in this case trans-men, by prioritizing their emotional needs ahead of the needs of women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does giving Trans women rights diminish biological women's rights?

We're all in the same group as "female." I don't care if trans women want to join. The more the merrier.

THIS

I guess you were never an athlete.

I played a D1 sport. I have no problem being inclusive.

Such a small %, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all really have to know that, to the younger generations, this is a non-issue. None of us have a problem including trans women as women, while at the same time advocating for women's rights.

You're on the wrong side of history.

Another swipe at older women. Young people often think they have all the answers when, in fact, they are working with a limited set of experiences and information.

The best world is where the optimism of the younger is brought together with the life experience and wisdom of the older.

As an older woman who has lived through plenty of misogyny I’ve learned how important it is to be inclusive.

We need more like you to help your generation understand inclusivity and intersectionality. We are relying on you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So PP really thinks about omen who work as waxers, who are overwhelmingly poor and immigrant women, should be sued for refusing to touch p*nis? Wow...

Waxing for “people without penises”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does it harm trans women to call them trans women?

Because they’re deluded men and need to usurp and undermine women in any way possible, and feel entitled to do so.

This hateful crap is exactly what fuels my anger.

I don’t see any of the JKR-minded people denouncing this.

I posted a few pages back specifically saying I did not support language like this. And I’ll reaffirm that I think this poster does sound hateful and bigoted

Thank you.

Can the question be answered? What is the harm caused to trans women by calling them trans women?

None as long as you acknowledge that being trans is part of their identity but they are also women. They’re women. If you can agree to that basic fact, then saying they are trans is fine because you aren’t using it to diminish or deny their womanhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trans women are called trans for a reason. They were not born women. The very words used to describe this group acknowledges that. You can argue until the cows come home, no demand for inclusion will change that fact.

That said, there are a lot of posts about JK and this issue of menstruation. At the end of the day, she's correct - it is certainly a fact that only women can menstruate. This is undisputed. And don't tell me me about PCOS and menopause because those are just biological women who can't menstruate.

Is saying only women menstruate exclusionary? Yes. So what?

+1. Go fight your own trans battles and leave real women out of it.

This is precisely the language that is marginalizing towards trans-women.

I'm with JKR on there needing to be a more nuanced conversation that recognizes women as a group and differences both physical and in social background between cis-women and trans-women, but there is no need to engage in marginalizing and dismissive language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all really have to know that, to the younger generations, this is a non-issue. None of us have a problem including trans women as women, while at the same time advocating for women's rights.

You're on the wrong side of history.

This does seem to be a generational issue, to an extent. But you don't care about trans men, younger generation, either. A lot of concern about being acknowledged but not a lot of concern to acknowledge.

Says who?? I care a lot about the young man who is trans that I know. But this is a thread about JKR’s comments about trans women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does it harm trans women to call them trans women?

Because they’re deluded men and need to usurp and undermine women in any way possible, and feel entitled to do so.

This hateful crap is exactly what fuels my anger.

I don’t see any of the JKR-minded people denouncing this.

I posted a few pages back specifically saying I did not support language like this. And I’ll reaffirm that I think this poster does sound hateful and bigoted

Thank you.

Can the question be answered? What is the harm caused to trans women by calling them trans women?

None as long as you acknowledge that being trans is part of their identity but they are also women. They’re women. If you can agree to that basic fact, then saying they are trans is fine because you aren’t using it to diminish or deny their womanhood.

If womanhood doesn't reside in the body, then what is womanhood? Is it just wearing a dress?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all really have to know that, to the younger generations, this is a non-issue. None of us have a problem including trans women as women, while at the same time advocating for women's rights.

You're on the wrong side of history.

This does seem to be a generational issue, to an extent. But you don't care about trans men, younger generation, either. A lot of concern about being acknowledged but not a lot of concern to acknowledge.

Says who?? I care a lot about the young man who is trans that I know. But this is a thread about JKR’s comments about trans women.

Says activists. Or maybe you just aren't paying attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does it harm trans women to call them trans women?

Because they’re deluded men and need to usurp and undermine women in any way possible, and feel entitled to do so.

This hateful crap is exactly what fuels my anger.

I don’t see any of the JKR-minded people denouncing this.

I posted a few pages back specifically saying I did not support language like this. And I’ll reaffirm that I think this poster does sound hateful and bigoted

Thank you.

Can the question be answered? What is the harm caused to trans women by calling them trans women?

None as long as you acknowledge that being trans is part of their identity but they are also women. They’re women. If you can agree to that basic fact, then saying they are trans is fine because you aren’t using it to diminish or deny their womanhood.

NP. I don’t want to agree with that. I don’t agree. I will call anyone whatever name or pronoun they want, I don’t care what bathroom they use or what they wear. I support publicly funded reassignment surgery for those with dysphoria. I will always decry violence against trans people and support trans advocacy. But privately, I do not acknowledge their womanhood. The only thing that makes me a woman is my biological femaleness and the way I have been treated and socialized because of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does it harm trans women to call them trans women?

Because they’re deluded men and need to usurp and undermine women in any way possible, and feel entitled to do so.

This hateful crap is exactly what fuels my anger.

I don’t see any of the JKR-minded people denouncing this.

I posted a few pages back specifically saying I did not support language like this. And I’ll reaffirm that I think this poster does sound hateful and bigoted

Thank you.

Can the question be answered? What is the harm caused to trans women by calling them trans women?

None as long as you acknowledge that being trans is part of their identity but they are also women. They’re women. If you can agree to that basic fact, then saying they are trans is fine because you aren’t using it to diminish or deny their womanhood.

NP. I don’t want to agree with that. I don’t agree. I will call anyone whatever name or pronoun they want, I don’t care what bathroom they use or what they wear. I support publicly funded reassignment surgery for those with dysphoria. I will always decry violence against trans people and support trans advocacy. But privately, I do not acknowledge their womanhood. The only thing that makes me a woman is my biological femaleness and the way I have been treated and socialized because of it.

This is a major point in my disagreement with activists. There is a vociferous point of view that there is no difference between growing up as a boy or as a girl that can lead towards a unifying experience of manhood or womanhood and this just doesn't fit with my lived experience.