US News 2020 rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Undergraduate Tiers
1A) Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Yale, Princeton
1B) Columbia, Penn, Duke, Chicago, Caltech

2A) Northwestern, Brown, Dartmouth, Williams, Amherst
2B) Rice, Cornell, Pomona, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Cal, Notre Dame, Emory, Swarthmore, UCLA, Wellesley

3A) Michigan, NYU, USC, UVA, Tufts, Middlebury, Barnard
3B)UNC, Boston College, W&M, Wake, W&L, Davidson

Tier 2A is very debatable is there are a lot of great schools that could go there.

Update because some schools are missing.

1A) Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Yale, Princeton
1B) Columbia, Penn, Duke, Chicago, Caltech

2A) Northwestern, Brown, Dartmouth, Williams, Amherst, *John's Hopkins
2B) Rice, Cornell, Pomona, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Cal, Notre Dame, Emory, Swarthmore, UCLA, Wellesley, WashU St.Louis, Carnegie Mellon

3A) Michigan, NYU, USC, UVA, Tufts, Middlebury, Barnard, GaTech, Bowdoin
3B)UNC, Boston College, W&M, Wake, W&L, Davidson, Haverford, Vassar

*= Very debatable.
JHU could easily be 2B but I think it's a cut above

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many, if not all, of the best public universities have fallen considerably in the USN rankings over the years. In '83 and '85 when they first came out they ranked the following public schools this way:

Berkeley 5/7
Michigan 7/8
Illinois 8
Wisconsin 13
Texas (Austin) 25
William and Mary 22
North Carolina 9/11
UCLA 21
UVA 15

UCLA is the only one still about where it was and is the highest ranked public on the 2020 list. So what's changed?

USN ranking used to put more weight on the graduate programs in which Berkeley etc shine. The graduate programs in Berkeley, Michigan etc are still top notch, but the undergraduate programs market is much bigger than the graduate one, so USN ranking has shifted the focus towards the undergraduate programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many, if not all, of the best public universities have fallen considerably in the USN rankings over the years. In '83 and '85 when they first came out they ranked the following public schools this way:

Berkeley 5/7
Michigan 7/8
Illinois 8
Wisconsin 13
Texas (Austin) 25
William and Mary 22
North Carolina 9/11
UCLA 21
UVA 15

UCLA is the only one still about where it was and is the highest ranked public on the 2020 list. So what's changed?

USN ranking used to put more weight on the graduate programs in which Berkeley etc shine. The graduate programs in Berkeley, Michigan etc are still top notch, but the undergraduate programs market is much bigger than the graduate one, so USN ranking has shifted the focus towards the undergraduate programs.

Public perception has changed and private schools started to gain a lot of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Undergraduate Tiers
1A) Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Yale, Princeton
1B) Columbia, Penn, Duke, Chicago, Caltech

2A) Northwestern, Brown, Dartmouth, Williams, Amherst
2B) Rice, Cornell, Pomona, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Cal, Notre Dame, Emory, Swarthmore, UCLA, Wellesley

3A) Michigan, NYU, USC, UVA, Tufts, Middlebury, Barnard
3B)UNC, Boston College, W&M, Wake, W&L, Davidson

Tier 2A is very debatable is there are a lot of great schools that could go there.

Good stuff.

Thank you, I was trying my best to be fair bu.t accurate of what people think. I also work for a top pharmaceutical company FYI.

I think this breakdown generally matches most people's perception about college prestige. Hopkins and WashU can go in 2B) as well.

It doesn't match mine. First there is Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Yale, Princeton, Caltech. If you are at one of these schools, particularly Harvard, Stanford, MIT, people will think you were admitted to your top choice bar none. Next is the "just missed" this category, which would be schools like Columbia, Duke, Chicago, but you could probably fold 2A into it. People will know you likely were not admitted to Harvard, etc. Below that, it really starts to matter less as people will recognize good schools, but don't really process tiers clearly. They just start to think of a broad category of very good schools. People should focus more on fit and finances.

CalTech would not belong up there. It’s a specialized school not on the same level as MIT. At MIT one can major in non-stem majors such as Econ knowing it’s one of the best in the country. At CalTech, you cant do that. CalTech was once a run of the mill regional vocational college. Its no more than a STEM vo-tech. It’s less desirable than 2A, possibly belonging to 2B.

Little known fact: Feynman taught welding.

Little known fact from Wiki,

“Caltech started as a vocational school founded in Pasadena in 1891 by local businessman and politician Amos G. Throop. The school was known successively as Throop University, Throop Polytechnic Institute (and Manual Training School)[13] and Throop College of Technology before acquiring its current name in 1920.[10][14] The vocational school was disbanded and the preparatory program was split off to form the independent Polytechnic School in 1907.“

It is a West Coast school. UCLA just turned 100 years old and isn't even on its original campus. It is now the top rated national public university according to USNWR. Stanford was only founded in 1885. Caltech hasn't been anything like a vocational school for a hundred years and by the 1930s Albert Einstein was lecturing there and considered staying on a permanent basis.

Caltech, with 2,300 students, has had more affiliated Nobel Prize winners than Oxford University, Princeton, and Yale. It is just behind Stanford on the list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many, if not all, of the best public universities have fallen considerably in the USN rankings over the years. In '83 and '85 when they first came out they ranked the following public schools this way:

Berkeley 5/7
Michigan 7/8
Illinois 8
Wisconsin 13
Texas (Austin) 25
William and Mary 22
North Carolina 9/11
UCLA 21
UVA 15

UCLA is the only one still about where it was and is the highest ranked public on the 2020 list. So what's changed?

USN ranking used to put more weight on the graduate programs in which Berkeley etc shine. The graduate programs in Berkeley, Michigan etc are still top notch, but the undergraduate programs market is much bigger than the graduate one, so USN ranking has shifted the focus towards the undergraduate programs.

Public perception has changed and private schools started to gain a lot of money.

USNWR rankings now significantly weigh resources, which favors wealthy private schools and schools with medical schools (even though many of those resources may have nothing to do with the undergraduate program). It is likely one of the reasons Berkeley has fallen behind UCLA in public rankings is it does not have a medical school. The resources numbers in the IPEDS database, which is what USNWR uses, shows UCLA with far more resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many, if not all, of the best public universities have fallen considerably in the USN rankings over the years. In '83 and '85 when they first came out they ranked the following public schools this way:

Berkeley 5/7
Michigan 7/8
Illinois 8
Wisconsin 13
Texas (Austin) 25
William and Mary 22
North Carolina 9/11
UCLA 21
UVA 15

UCLA is the only one still about where it was and is the highest ranked public on the 2020 list. So what's changed?

USN ranking used to put more weight on the graduate programs in which Berkeley etc shine. The graduate programs in Berkeley, Michigan etc are still top notch, but the undergraduate programs market is much bigger than the graduate one, so USN ranking has shifted the focus towards the undergraduate programs.

Public perception has changed and private schools started to gain a lot of money.

USNWR measures inputs (money), not outputs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Son, I am waiting on the UVA boosters showing up to say the Harvard on the 'ville...the Harvard of Virginia, etc. And the GDS posters showing up to say Tier 1 is composed of all GDS grads.

Dude, CalTech is nothing more than a hi-tech votech compared to MIT. I’ve had more than one CalTech grad tutoring my kid i connected through various HS tutoring websites.

You might need tutoring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

USN ranking used to put more weight on the graduate programs in which Berkeley etc shine. The graduate programs in Berkeley, Michigan etc are still top notch, but the undergraduate programs market is much bigger than the graduate one, so USN ranking has shifted the focus towards the undergraduate programs.

Public perception has changed and private schools started to gain a lot of money.

USNWR rankings now significantly weigh resources, which favors wealthy private schools and schools with medical schools (even though many of those resources may have nothing to do with the undergraduate program). It is likely one of the reasons Berkeley has fallen behind UCLA in public rankings is it does not have a medical school. The resources numbers in the IPEDS database, which is what USNWR uses, shows UCLA with far more resources.

That's a good thing. During times like these schools with wealth and financial stability should be rewarded. We see Georgetown in financial trouble, which is sad for such a great school.

Pertaining to the tiers, I find it interesting that 2B is very large compared to the other groupings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Son, I am waiting on the UVA boosters showing up to say the Harvard on the 'ville...the Harvard of Virginia, etc. And the GDS posters showing up to say Tier 1 is composed of all GDS grads.

Dude, CalTech is nothing more than a hi-tech votech compared to MIT. I’ve had more than one CalTech grad tutoring my kid i connected through various HS tutoring websites.

You might need tutoring.

CalTech people aren’t all that smart or well rounded.
It’s the stupid people with no smarts like you who think they are.

[Anonymous]

1A) Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Yale, Princeton
1B) Columbia, Penn, Duke, Chicago, Caltech

2A) Northwestern, Brown, Dartmouth, Williams, Amherst, *John's Hopkins
2B) Rice, Cornell, Pomona, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Cal, Notre Dame, Emory, Swarthmore, UCLA, Wellesley, WashU St.Louis, Carnegie Mellon

3A) Michigan, NYU, USC, UVA, Tufts, Middlebury, Barnard, GaTech, Bowdoin
3B)UNC, Boston College, W&M, Wake, W&L, Davidson, Haverford, Vassar


Good list. Should Pomona be 2A though? I am not the Pomona parent but it is usually mentioned with Amherst and Williams and Niche has it no. 1 SLAC.

[Anonymous]

Wow. You folks are really going to put US News out of business with your personal groupings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. You folks are really going to put US News out of business with your personal groupings.

It is how most people think. Sorry if your kid's school isn't on the list but James Madison is a wonderful school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. You folks are really going to put US News out of business with your personal groupings.

It is how most people think. Sorry if your kid's school isn't on the list but James Madison is a wonderful school.

I have degrees from a 1A and a 1B and my kid is headed to a 3A this fall. Planning to beat DC tonight unless one of you moves the school to 2B by 8 PM.

And, no, this is not how "most people think," even in rarefied professional circles. It's entirely your personal vanity project.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. You folks are really going to put US News out of business with your personal groupings.

It is how most people think. Sorry if your kid's school isn't on the list but James Madison is a wonderful school.

I have degrees from a 1A and a 1B and my kid is headed to a 3A this fall. Planning to beat DC tonight unless one of you moves the school to 2B by 8 PM.

And, no, this is not how "most people think," even in rarefied professional circles. It's entirely your personal vanity project.

So Legacy Status didn't help at all? I agree with the groupings and I would consider 2B and up to be elite. 3A elite depending on the major or if the student had a hook or not in admissions. I want to continue into 4, wondering if VT or Tulane would be there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. You folks are really going to put US News out of business with your personal groupings.

It is how most people think. Sorry if your kid's school isn't on the list but James Madison is a wonderful school.

I have degrees from a 1A and a 1B and my kid is headed to a 3A this fall. Planning to beat DC tonight unless one of you moves the school to 2B by 8 PM.

And, no, this is not how "most people think," even in rarefied professional circles. It's entirely your personal vanity project.

So Legacy Status didn't help at all? I agree with the groupings and I would consider 2B and up to be elite. 3A elite depending on the major or if the student had a hook or not in admissions. I want to continue into 4, wondering if VT or Tulane would be there.

Tulane is like a safety for these schools and the next tier. VT only for engineering. Might be higher than Tier 4 for engineering. Might hit bottom of tier 2.