Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do the “special ed” students at WJ include the GT/LD kids? If so, then it might be a false assumption that they are bringing down the average.

The source data document did not define "Special Education" but the context the document used was "Special Education or LEP" which tends to indicate that GT/LD was not included? Again, can't say definitively, only in context.

I think the point is that any broad brush approach is inherently flawed. It's more nuanced.

But hard data and facts are always better than opinions - especially unsubstantiated ones. I've found there are a lot of people in and around DC who attempt to reshape reality according to their own personal views and opinions.

Facts and data are the only way to separate out the hard working, earnest teachers and staff at the school level to recognize their efforts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do the “special ed” students at WJ include the GT/LD kids? If so, then it might be a false assumption that they are bringing down the average.

The source data document did not define "Special Education" but the context the document used was "Special Education or LEP" which tends to indicate that GT/LD was not included? Again, can't say definitively, only in context.

I think the point is that any broad brush approach is inherently flawed. It's more nuanced.

But hard data and facts are always better than opinions - especially unsubstantiated ones. I've found there are a lot of people in and around DC who attempt to reshape reality according to their own personal views and opinions.

Facts and data are the only way to separate out the hard working, earnest teachers and staff at the school level to recognize their efforts.

Really? There are plenty of hard working, earnest teachers and staff across MCPS, even at the schools on the lower end of DCUM ranking lists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I remember reading the post a while back that showed Blair's SAT average was 50 points higher for the largest common cohort to it and any W in order to isolate for demographic differences and gauge the school's actual value. Some people argued but the magnet responsible which was ridiculous because it's a small program in a large school that's also mostly Asian. These silly posts that are based on outdated notions from 30 years ago are mostly laughable.
I believe these were the SAT scores for the largest cohort common to each of these high-schools

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wootton 1262
Churchill 1257

The data was published by the county here.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

This makes a lot more sense than just dumping raw data.

The smartest white kids means it’s the best school? I cannot imagine anything more racist and classist than that, considering 90% of Blair kids are from rich liberal families in Takoma Park. I know a few of them myself.

It’s pretty funny to read this thread and watch TP parents tie themselves in logic knots to reassure themselves that Blair is the ever-most-specialist.

So glad we opted out of sending to Blair. For this reason. I will never forget the CAP tour, when I asked if the kids read novels and the white English teacher told me she made sure they read "excerpts written by poc." Bless her heart! I know she meant well, but I just wanted to know if they'd read novels.

[Anonymous]

Really? There are plenty of hard working, earnest teachers and staff across MCPS, even at the schools on the lower end of DCUM ranking lists.

Yes, there are. However, the analysis had to do with how effective a school program was overall - not how hard the teachers worked. There are many situations, to include the parents of the students, that affect the numbers. The point is that if you know this, you can do something about it (if you wanted to). If a child is written off as not meeting college standards, for whatever reason, then it may be time to add more data. Maybe there were students who scored poorly on the SAT's, but never intended to go to college anyway. For example, a student may be in a bad home situation, or perhaps works with relatives in a family business, or some other reason.

For example, I've seen post after post over the years how some are advocating to ship off the children to other schools to make another school's numbers look better. Does that really do the child any good? If you want to prepare a child for life, can you offer a German-style Gymnasium program (e.g. trade school) instead?

There are many roads to and levels of success. The question is - has MCPS taken this into consideration and ensured a child has the best possible chance in Life? If so, then it's something to celebrate. If not, and the money they received is used to only make decision-makers look good, that's a problem.

I've seen where MCPS will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on studies for equity's sake. Why not a study on the children who score low on the SAT (ex. below 1000)? If it's been published, I know I haven't seen it. Perhaps by better understanding the problems involved, it will be possible to find better solutions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill take my Tier 5 school over your racist W school any day. ( Churchill)

Agreed I can only imagine how the black students at these “ W” schools feel. Probably the moment they walk through those doors it feels like Jim Crow. Also noticed that these W schools are full of arrogant students, while schools like Wheaton or Einstein has a more humble student body representing them.

From what I've seen in over 20 years in the private sector, that social hierarchy, arrogance, and self-confidence – which is all fortified in high school – is how you get big promotions and raises. I don't know why people pretend being humble, coming from diverse schools, or even being "smart" for that matter is how you get ahead in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill take my Tier 5 school over your racist W school any day. ( Churchill)

Agreed I can only imagine how the black students at these “ W” schools feel. Probably the moment they walk through those doors it feels like Jim Crow. Also noticed that these W schools are full of arrogant students, while schools like Wheaton or Einstein has a more humble student body representing them.

From what I've seen in over 20 years in the private sector, that social hierarchy, arrogance, and self-confidence – which is all fortified in high school – is how you get big promotions and raises. I don't know why people pretend being humble, coming from diverse schools, or even being "smart" for that matter is how you get ahead in life.

DP, but why is getting ahead in life the most important goal? I want my kids to be productive citizens, not die with the most money ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill take my Tier 5 school over your racist W school any day. ( Churchill)

Agreed I can only imagine how the black students at these “ W” schools feel. Probably the moment they walk through those doors it feels like Jim Crow. Also noticed that these W schools are full of arrogant students, while schools like Wheaton or Einstein has a more humble student body representing them.

From what I've seen in over 20 years in the private sector, that social hierarchy, arrogance, and self-confidence – which is all fortified in high school – is how you get big promotions and raises. I don't know why people pretend being humble, coming from diverse schools, or even being "smart" for that matter is how you get ahead in life.

Depends on what you consider "ahead in life."

Personally, if I raised a kid who was arrogant and highly focused on their place in the social hierarchy, I wouldn't consider that a success, no matter how many promotions or raises they got. I'd wonder how we'd failed them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill take my Tier 5 school over your racist W school any day. ( Churchill)

Agreed I can only imagine how the black students at these “ W” schools feel. Probably the moment they walk through those doors it feels like Jim Crow. Also noticed that these W schools are full of arrogant students, while schools like Wheaton or Einstein has a more humble student body representing them.

From what I've seen in over 20 years in the private sector, that social hierarchy, arrogance, and self-confidence – which is all fortified in high school – is how you get big promotions and raises. I don't know why people pretend being humble, coming from diverse schools, or even being "smart" for that matter is how you get ahead in life.

Depends on what you consider "ahead in life."

Personally, if I raised a kid who was arrogant and highly focused on their place in the social hierarchy, I wouldn't consider that a success, no matter how many promotions or raises they got. I'd wonder how we'd failed them.

Gosh.... and wow

In the private sector becoming (and staying) successful means bringing people up with you. Solo / Selfish glory is short lived...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill take my Tier 5 school over your racist W school any day. ( Churchill)

Agreed I can only imagine how the black students at these “ W” schools feel. Probably the moment they walk through those doors it feels like Jim Crow. Also noticed that these W schools are full of arrogant students, while schools like Wheaton or Einstein has a more humble student body representing them.

From what I've seen in over 20 years in the private sector, that social hierarchy, arrogance, and self-confidence – which is all fortified in high school – is how you get big promotions and raises. I don't know why people pretend being humble, coming from diverse schools, or even being "smart" for that matter is how you get ahead in life.

I would be very disappointed if my kid turned out like this -- arrogant. Self confidence doesn't mean arrogant.

-signed parent of "smart" kid in a magnet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Really? There are plenty of hard working, earnest teachers and staff across MCPS, even at the schools on the lower end of DCUM ranking lists.

Yes, there are. However, the analysis had to do with how effective a school program was overall - not how hard the teachers worked. There are many situations, to include the parents of the students, that affect the numbers. The point is that if you know this, you can do something about it (if you wanted to). If a child is written off as not meeting college standards, for whatever reason, then it may be time to add more data. Maybe there were students who scored poorly on the SAT's, but never intended to go to college anyway. For example, a student may be in a bad home situation, or perhaps works with relatives in a family business, or some other reason.

For example, I've seen post after post over the years how some are advocating to ship off the children to other schools to make another school's numbers look better. Does that really do the child any good? If you want to prepare a child for life, can you offer a German-style Gymnasium program (e.g. trade school) instead?

There are many roads to and levels of success. The question is - has MCPS taken this into consideration and ensured a child has the best possible chance in Life? If so, then it's something to celebrate. If not, and the money they received is used to only make decision-makers look good, that's a problem.

I've seen where MCPS will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on studies for equity's sake. Why not a study on the children who score low on the SAT (ex. below 1000)? If it's been published, I know I haven't seen it. Perhaps by better understanding the problems involved, it will be possible to find better solutions?

You have some very strange views. Please seek help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill take my Tier 5 school over your racist W school any day. ( Churchill)

Agreed I can only imagine how the black students at these “ W” schools feel. Probably the moment they walk through those doors it feels like Jim Crow. Also noticed that these W schools are full of arrogant students, while schools like Wheaton or Einstein has a more humble student body representing them.

From what I've seen in over 20 years in the private sector, that social hierarchy, arrogance, and self-confidence – which is all fortified in high school – is how you get big promotions and raises. I don't know why people pretend being humble, coming from diverse schools, or even being "smart" for that matter is how you get ahead in life.

I would be very disappointed if my kid turned out like this -- arrogant. Self confidence doesn't mean arrogant.

-signed parent of "smart" kid in a magnet

Also, agree with the earlier poster about the arrogance of W students. For schools with low FARMS they seem pretty average and the drug and racial issues that seem to pervade them seem very problematic.

[Anonymous]

Ah, there it is. The old cope that anyone who can afford to live in a wealthier pyramid (or send their teen to a private) probably has a druggy kid. Pathetic and sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I remember reading the post a while back that showed Blair's SAT average was 50 points higher for the largest common cohort to it and any W in order to isolate for demographic differences and gauge the school's actual value. Some people argued but the magnet responsible which was ridiculous because it's a small program in a large school that's also mostly Asian. These silly posts that are based on outdated notions from 30 years ago are mostly laughable.
I believe these were the SAT scores for the largest cohort common to each of these high-schools

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wootton 1262
Churchill 1257

The data was published by the county here.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

This makes a lot more sense than just dumping raw data.

The smartest white kids means it’s the best school? I cannot imagine anything more racist and classist than that, considering 90% of Blair kids are from rich liberal families in Takoma Park. I know a few of them myself.

Yup. To me, the best schools are the schools where Black and Hispanic students perform the best. So the top 4 are Poolesville, Whitman, Churchill and BCC. Black and Hispanic students at Blair perform worse than Northwest, Sherwood and Watkins Mill which says a lot about Blair. That’s a lot of inequality in one school and it’s hard to understand how white kids are getting taught so well while Black and Brown kids are not.

Yeah but they have to be a significant number/percentage to mean anything. The percentage of Black and Hispanic students at Whitman and Poolesville is less than 5%. Comparing the scores of 5 ~10 to 200 kids is comparing apples to oranges. That is why the comparison should be with the group that has a significant number/percentage of students on each school.
I mean when you have 5 African diplomatic kids at Whitman, do you think they live in poverty, don't get the support they need?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I remember reading the post a while back that showed Blair's SAT average was 50 points higher for the largest common cohort to it and any W in order to isolate for demographic differences and gauge the school's actual value. Some people argued but the magnet responsible which was ridiculous because it's a small program in a large school that's also mostly Asian. These silly posts that are based on outdated notions from 30 years ago are mostly laughable.
I believe these were the SAT scores for the largest cohort common to each of these high-schools

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wootton 1262
Churchill 1257

The data was published by the county here.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

This makes a lot more sense than just dumping raw data.

The smartest white kids means it’s the best school? I cannot imagine anything more racist and classist than that, considering 90% of Blair kids are from rich liberal families in Takoma Park. I know a few of them myself.

Yup. To me, the best schools are the schools where Black and Hispanic students perform the best. So the top 4 are Poolesville, Whitman, Churchill and BCC. Black and Hispanic students at Blair perform worse than Northwest, Sherwood and Watkins Mill which says a lot about Blair. That’s a lot of inequality in one school and it’s hard to understand how white kids are getting taught so well while Black and Brown kids are not.

Yeah but they have to be a significant number/percentage to mean anything. The percentage of Black and Hispanic students at Whitman and Poolesville is less than 5%. Comparing the scores of 5 ~10 to 200 kids is comparing apples to oranges. That is why the comparison should be with the group that has a significant number/percentage of students on each school.
I mean when you have 5 African diplomatic kids at Whitman, do you think they live in poverty, don't get the support they need?

+1 Some people need to take a data analysis class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do the “special ed” students at WJ include the GT/LD kids? If so, then it might be a false assumption that they are bringing down the average.

The source data document did not define "Special Education" but the context the document used was "Special Education or LEP" which tends to indicate that GT/LD was not included? Again, can't say definitively, only in context.

I think the point is that any broad brush approach is inherently flawed. It's more nuanced.

But hard data and facts are always better than opinions - especially unsubstantiated ones. I've found there are a lot of people in and around DC who attempt to reshape reality according to their own personal views and opinions.

Facts and data are the only way to separate out the hard working, earnest teachers and staff at the school level to recognize their efforts.

I think their point is that the raw data dumps although facts aren't meaningful. That you need a more nuanced analysis to really understand the value of one school over another.