Frustration with 2e/gifted child

[Anonymous]

New poster here.

Don't read the sociopath book.

You and your husband need immediate expert advice on how to handle her and probably therapy as well. I recommend finding a therapist that can do the parent part of DBT for Children with you. We have a similar DD and shifting our behavior even 10-20% made a big difference ultimately with her behavior. Our DD is much better now and I think that is due to 1. our learning how to manage her, 2. time and maturity, 3. therapy and DBT training that DD ultimately got.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you looked at the autobiography called Sociopath by Patric Gagne?

Maybe it has something to offer you.


https://www.shannonwaiteauthor.com/blog/sociopath-a-book-review

"To put it very simply, sociopaths have a hard time experiencing emotions like the general public does because they have a limited emotional range, thus rarely feeling “learned” emotions (like love and guilt). Based on Gagne’s experience (and research), sociopaths will partake in antisocial behavior to try and feel something other than apathy.

Gagne’s introduction ends with, “I am a criminal without a record. A master of disguise. I have never been caught. I have rarely been sorry. I am friendly. I am responsible. I am invisible. I blend right in. I am a twenty-first century sociopath. And I’ve written this book because I know I’m not alone” (xvii)."

This really interesting as she said something really similar to her sibling yesterday. That basically humans don’t innately have emotions like love or guilt - that they are forced/taught onto humans. And she has said at other times that she has never truly felt sorry about anything, so when she says it, it is a lie.

Im terrified of reading this book because I don’t want to discover my daughter is a sociopath. Have I had that thought and wondered? Yes, many times. But I never settled on it as a truth. I believe she’s under the daily stress of being in flight or fight mode which makes her incapable of feeling anything other than anger.

The other thing is that she says she experiences no fear. I don’t completely understand this. Id describe her as pretty fearless. And she is completely obsessed with horror. But she does have fears or anxiety about doctors- which she denies- she says she is just angry and visualizing hurting them. She just operates very differently.

[Anonymous]

DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster here.

Don't read the sociopath book.

You and your husband need immediate expert advice on how to handle her and probably therapy as well. I recommend finding a therapist that can do the parent part of DBT for Children with you. We have a similar DD and shifting our behavior even 10-20% made a big difference ultimately with her behavior. Our DD is much better now and I think that is due to 1. our learning how to manage her, 2. time and maturity, 3. therapy and DBT training that DD ultimately got.

I know nothing about DBT. Looking into it, it appears to be recommended for individuals who self harm or are suicidal, but I don’t think our daughter struggles with either of these. At least not yet. She externalizes everything. She takes no accountability. It’s all anger and blame directed at everyone around her. There is no inward anger. Do you still think it’s a solution for her?

We do plan on shifting to family therapy instead of individual therapy for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

The school evaluation is not sufficient. You need a private autism screening like the ADOS-2. Trust me when I say from personal experience that undiagnosed ASD is rampant among doctors and their children. Stay in touch with his med school/residency friends and you’ll see…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

The school evaluation is not sufficient. You need a private autism screening like the ADOS-2. Trust me when I say from personal experience that undiagnosed ASD is rampant among doctors and their children. Stay in touch with his med school/residency friends and you’ll see…

All his friends from med school are divorced. They are definitely all ND and are different. But not sure autism fits. They are all very successful in their work life. I will think about the ADOS-2 but I think we need to wait at least another year. We’ve had so many healthcare expenses that’s not covered by insurance as well as other unforeseen costs. And I am pretty sure our daughter will not cooperate with yet another evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

The school evaluation is not sufficient. You need a private autism screening like the ADOS-2. Trust me when I say from personal experience that undiagnosed ASD is rampant among doctors and their children. Stay in touch with his med school/residency friends and you’ll see…

All his friends from med school are divorced. They are definitely all ND and are different. But not sure autism fits. They are all very successful in their work life. I will think about the ADOS-2 but I think we need to wait at least another year. We’ve had so many healthcare expenses that’s not covered by insurance as well as other unforeseen costs. And I am pretty sure our daughter will not cooperate with yet another evaluation.

Looking into it, I just saw that the test takes an hour or less so maybe it is something our daughter might cooperate for. Expensive, but maybe worthwhile if it turns out she actually has autism. Otherwise it would be a waste.

Also DH’s siblings all have certain struggles but they are all so different. All divorced. All very gifted and extremely successful in their work life. The one has remarried. I think people are just so different and hard to categorize. It does seem like very gifted individuals struggle more in other areas of their life. I am gifted as well but less so than DH, and I’ve definitely had my share of struggles.

[Anonymous]

Lady, she’s autistic. She’s not a sociopath, she sounds like a textbook autistic 14 yo (living horror is so common) and is behaving like autistic teens behave when they are under supported and incredibly anxious and feeling out of control. Others have successfully walked this path before. You have gotten some pretty good advice on this thread - a strong IEP, DBT therapy, a neuropsych evaluation for her, a psychiatrist for meds. Also therapy for you. You seem resistant to some of the good suggestions offered - I realize you are tired overwhelmed but take some baby steps. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

*loving horror*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

The school evaluation is not sufficient. You need a private autism screening like the ADOS-2. Trust me when I say from personal experience that undiagnosed ASD is rampant among doctors and their children. Stay in touch with his med school/residency friends and you’ll see…

All his friends from med school are divorced. They are definitely all ND and are different. But not sure autism fits. They are all very successful in their work life. I will think about the ADOS-2 but I think we need to wait at least another year. We’ve had so many healthcare expenses that’s not covered by insurance as well as other unforeseen costs. And I am pretty sure our daughter will not cooperate with yet another evaluation.

Looking into it, I just saw that the test takes an hour or less so maybe it is something our daughter might cooperate for. Expensive, but maybe worthwhile if it turns out she actually has autism. Otherwise it would be a waste.

Also DH’s siblings all have certain struggles but they are all so different. All divorced. All very gifted and extremely successful in their work life. The one has remarried. I think people are just so different and hard to categorize. It does seem like very gifted individuals struggle more in other areas of their life. I am gifted as well but less so than DH, and I’ve definitely had my share of struggles.

It would not be a waste to rule out autism. You need to know what is going on if you want to fix it - she clearly needs medication, if nothing else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And maybe stop catering to her so much. Take a break. If she is picky about food, only go out of your way if she is polite. Step away from being her punching bag.

+1
Why are you indulging her picky eating and taking all of this verbal abuse? Don't engage. Ignore. Leave the room.

Personally, I would clean her room, launder her clothes, and cook regular meals that the rest of the family is eating. If she complains, offer to drive her to the grocery store so she can buy ingredients for a meal that she wants to cook. If she starts yelling, then leave the room.

If she starts talking about wanting you dead, then say "that is a hurtful thing to say" and leave the room. If she starts yelling at or engaging with her siblings in an inappropriate way, then take them and leave the house to drive to the park or somewhere else.

You don't have to put up with her abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

The school evaluation is not sufficient. You need a private autism screening like the ADOS-2. Trust me when I say from personal experience that undiagnosed ASD is rampant among doctors and their children. Stay in touch with his med school/residency friends and you’ll see…

All his friends from med school are divorced. They are definitely all ND and are different. But not sure autism fits. They are all very successful in their work life. I will think about the ADOS-2 but I think we need to wait at least another year. We’ve had so many healthcare expenses that’s not covered by insurance as well as other unforeseen costs. And I am pretty sure our daughter will not cooperate with yet another evaluation.

You will fill questionare in Ados 2 in parent side input. And even if she lied but you answer the questionare as your described in here, that alone could pretty much guarantee she is autistic, and verly likely also adhd.
I just did evaluation few months back, my kid is not as severe, and fell into the criteria, and since then the IEP accommodation was change to have more support at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lady, she’s autistic. She’s not a sociopath, she sounds like a textbook autistic 14 yo (living horror is so common) and is behaving like autistic teens behave when they are under supported and incredibly anxious and feeling out of control. Others have successfully walked this path before. You have gotten some pretty good advice on this thread - a strong IEP, DBT therapy, a neuropsych evaluation for her, a psychiatrist for meds. Also therapy for you. You seem resistant to some of the good suggestions offered - I realize you are tired overwhelmed but take some baby steps. Good luck.

We have already approved the IEP. What would YOU say makes up a strong IEP for an autistic 14yo? I'm trying to find a path forward that makes sense with where we are at now. I can talk to DH about the possibility of a neuropsych evaluation, but frankly I don't feel I need to rush that step. We had already consulted with someone for one several months ago. But we decided that we would follow the path for doing the free school evaluation first and see where that led.

She has been seeing a therapist for 3 months. I have done about 3 years of therapy which I ended about a year ago - it helped a lot with the parenting struggles, the relationship struggles, learning healthier communication skills, coping strategies, and my building my self esteem.

All that to say, I'm not in denial or refusing to take any steps. I don't want to make decisions that are counter-productive. And I have an entire school team who literally spent several weeks evaluating her through many tests and classroom observations, and teacher interviews, telling me that our daughter does not meet the criteria for autism or adhd. They acknowledged she shares many similar traits. But there were certain markers that were missing in her which are needed to actually meet the criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And maybe stop catering to her so much. Take a break. If she is picky about food, only go out of your way if she is polite. Step away from being her punching bag.

+1
Why are you indulging her picky eating and taking all of this verbal abuse? Don't engage. Ignore. Leave the room.

Personally, I would clean her room, launder her clothes, and cook regular meals that the rest of the family is eating. If she complains, offer to drive her to the grocery store so she can buy ingredients for a meal that she wants to cook. If she starts yelling, then leave the room.

If she starts talking about wanting you dead, then say "that is a hurtful thing to say" and leave the room. If she starts yelling at or engaging with her siblings in an inappropriate way, then take them and leave the house to drive to the park or somewhere else.

You don't have to put up with her abuse.

This is actually a big thing I took away from the advice on this thread, and I have been doing it, and it has been much, much better.

I detached myself. Very little conflict, because I just refuse to engage with her when she tries to start a fight with me. I did start cleaning her room regularly, preparing all her meals, and cleaning up after her, and that's pretty much eliminated all the nagging. I told her I would be doing these things for her since she wasn't doing them, and it's been clear she has not been able to do them on her own. I don't nag her anymore about going to bed at a decent hour, or whether or not she eats the foods we prepare her.

She did freak out on me for cleaning her room, and putting her things away, because she doesn't want me touching her stuff, but I was non-emotional about it and told her I'd continue to do it as long as she wasn't doing it. I stopped trying to engage with her - because it only ever led to insults.

She still tries to spontaneously start fights with me, but I just tell her that I don't want to argue with her. I stopped doing anything special for her. She still asks me to do things for her, like run errands for her to pick up a special food for her. I just ignore them or tell her I'm not able to. I stopped greeting her in the morning, because she has always responded with something like "Go away" or "Go die".

It's made me realize I have complete control over my own reactions and my feelings. I think I was worried she'd be angrier that I was detaching, but she is actually less angry and seems a lot calmer.