Program Analysis Lets Shut It Down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

Skipping pre-Calc and Calc entirely meaning that those students who get into the criteria-based biomedical science program who are supposed to get more rigorous education and getting more competitive in college admission actually choose a slower math pathway than their home schools in many cases. Unless the bioscience electives could be really appealing, there's no incentive to choose these programs at all. And by the way, if analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry are among the bioscience elective options, sorry they will be eliminated as they require calculus knowledge.

Some of ya'll have really bumped your heads. As someone who was a science major I can tell you that no HS kids needs to be taking analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry. Why are you trying to bring all the collegiate courses down to the HS level?

These are high school courses at some MCPS schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

Skipping pre-Calc and Calc entirely meaning that those students who get into the criteria-based biomedical science program who are supposed to get more rigorous education and getting more competitive in college admission actually choose a slower math pathway than their home schools in many cases. Unless the bioscience electives could be really appealing, there's no incentive to choose these programs at all. And by the way, if analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry are among the bioscience elective options, sorry they will be eliminated as they require calculus knowledge.

Some of ya'll have really bumped your heads. As someone who was a science major I can tell you that no HS kids needs to be taking analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry. Why are you trying to bring all the collegiate courses down to the HS level?

These are high school courses at some MCPS schools.

Which ones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

Am I correct in thinking that McPS parents on the board seem largely out of their minds in wanting college courses at high schools, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

Skipping pre-Calc and Calc entirely meaning that those students who get into the criteria-based biomedical science program who are supposed to get more rigorous education and getting more competitive in college admission actually choose a slower math pathway than their home schools in many cases. Unless the bioscience electives could be really appealing, there's no incentive to choose these programs at all. And by the way, if analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry are among the bioscience elective options, sorry they will be eliminated as they require calculus knowledge.

Some of ya'll have really bumped your heads. As someone who was a science major I can tell you that no HS kids needs to be taking analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry. Why are you trying to bring all the collegiate courses down to the HS level?

pp here. I have a phd in biomedical science, and have a kid from MCPS in pre-med track right now. I'm talking about differentiation. What makes the biomedical science program more appealing than local HS offers if they don't even offer AP preCalc/Calc? The required major-specific courses only include IB HL chemistry and IB HL biology (only junior and senior years). No one knows what the biomedical selectives are, but MCPS hinted that they could be using what are offered currently at SMCS. But when you check those biology/chemistry courses in SMCS curriculum, you got know calculus. So the biomedical electives are probably CTE-oriented.

Kids can get a much better selection and rigorous education in e.g., region #4 in any of their home schools, or RMIB, or Wootton STEM. So who do you anticipate to choose the biomedical science program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

Am I correct in thinking that McPS parents on the board seem largely out of their minds in wanting college courses at high schools, right?

Yup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

Well, I believe every MCPS HS offer AP Calc AB at least. Those ones choosing biomedical science program won't be taking AP Calc, and they will get a disadvantage in college application by comparing with other local HS students, aren't they? I'm asking a sincere question. From college admission perspective, what types of students would choose these programs if they can get AP bio/AP chem/AP Calc BC at their home schools (I assume every HS offer these, but Einstein family might have a different opinion).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

Well, I believe every MCPS HS offer AP Calc AB at least. Those ones choosing biomedical science program won't be taking AP Calc, and they will get a disadvantage in college application by comparing with other local HS students, aren't they? I'm asking a sincere question. From college admission perspective, what types of students would choose these programs if they can get AP bio/AP chem/AP Calc BC at their home schools (I assume every HS offer these, but Einstein family might have a different opinion).

Why not? Anyone can take AP Calc if they've met the prerequisites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

Skipping pre-Calc and Calc entirely meaning that those students who get into the criteria-based biomedical science program who are supposed to get more rigorous education and getting more competitive in college admission actually choose a slower math pathway than their home schools in many cases. Unless the bioscience electives could be really appealing, there's no incentive to choose these programs at all. And by the way, if analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry are among the bioscience elective options, sorry they will be eliminated as they require calculus knowledge.

Some of ya'll have really bumped your heads. As someone who was a science major I can tell you that no HS kids needs to be taking analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry. Why are you trying to bring all the collegiate courses down to the HS level?

These are high school courses at some MCPS schools.

These are course offerings at one HS. If I was designing a new program like BioMedical Science/Engineering for HS, analytical chemistry or physical chemistry would not be the first courses I would be trying to wrap into the offering. Somethings I would be trying to be sure they undertake:

General Bio/Chem
Basic Engineering
Physics
Ethics
Statistics/BioStats
A&P 1&2
AP Bio/Chem
Data Analytics
Sociology
Psychology
Research
BLS/ALS
Medical Terminology

Why? Because the students who have taken these classes have a good depth and breadth of understanding of what is required of someone going into an Advance Science/Medicine track. They understand basic science and people better. This is a solid foundation upon which to build in college. Further, they have some skills that can actually be utilized in an internship or job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

Well, I believe every MCPS HS offer AP Calc AB at least. Those ones choosing biomedical science program won't be taking AP Calc, and they will get a disadvantage in college application by comparing with other local HS students, aren't they? I'm asking a sincere question. From college admission perspective, what types of students would choose these programs if they can get AP bio/AP chem/AP Calc BC at their home schools (I assume every HS offer these, but Einstein family might have a different opinion).

Why not? Anyone can take AP Calc if they've met the prerequisites.

People choose a program to get the other things that come with the program. Yes some advance classes, but usually courses geared towards a particular interest and a co-hort of similarly interested students. Additionally, there is usually extra things like exploratory learning opportunities and extra-curriculars that go with a program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

Skipping pre-Calc and Calc entirely meaning that those students who get into the criteria-based biomedical science program who are supposed to get more rigorous education and getting more competitive in college admission actually choose a slower math pathway than their home schools in many cases. Unless the bioscience electives could be really appealing, there's no incentive to choose these programs at all. And by the way, if analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry are among the bioscience elective options, sorry they will be eliminated as they require calculus knowledge.

Some of ya'll have really bumped your heads. As someone who was a science major I can tell you that no HS kids needs to be taking analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry. Why are you trying to bring all the collegiate courses down to the HS level?

pp here. I have a phd in biomedical science, and have a kid from MCPS in pre-med track right now. I'm talking about differentiation. What makes the biomedical science program more appealing than local HS offers if they don't even offer AP preCalc/Calc? The required major-specific courses only include IB HL chemistry and IB HL biology (only junior and senior years). No one knows what the biomedical selectives are, but MCPS hinted that they could be using what are offered currently at SMCS. But when you check those biology/chemistry courses in SMCS curriculum, you got know calculus. So the biomedical electives are probably CTE-oriented.

Kids can get a much better selection and rigorous education in e.g., region #4 in any of their home schools, or RMIB, or Wootton STEM. So who do you anticipate to choose the biomedical science program?

Who said anything about not offering Pre-Cal or Calc. In fact offer all schools offering Calculus is listed on the core courses. They used a base example in the slides of what is required. That doesn't mean a student can't go beyond. If a kid is on a higher math track, they will take the math that corresponds with where they are and where they want to go. That said, taking AP Stats is not a bad thing. Stats is used all over Biomedical Science and Medicine as I'm sure you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

Skipping pre-Calc and Calc entirely meaning that those students who get into the criteria-based biomedical science program who are supposed to get more rigorous education and getting more competitive in college admission actually choose a slower math pathway than their home schools in many cases. Unless the bioscience electives could be really appealing, there's no incentive to choose these programs at all. And by the way, if analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry are among the bioscience elective options, sorry they will be eliminated as they require calculus knowledge.

Some of ya'll have really bumped your heads. As someone who was a science major I can tell you that no HS kids needs to be taking analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry. Why are you trying to bring all the collegiate courses down to the HS level?

pp here. I have a phd in biomedical science, and have a kid from MCPS in pre-med track right now. I'm talking about differentiation. What makes the biomedical science program more appealing than local HS offers if they don't even offer AP preCalc/Calc? The required major-specific courses only include IB HL chemistry and IB HL biology (only junior and senior years). No one knows what the biomedical selectives are, but MCPS hinted that they could be using what are offered currently at SMCS. But when you check those biology/chemistry courses in SMCS curriculum, you got know calculus. So the biomedical electives are probably CTE-oriented.

Kids can get a much better selection and rigorous education in e.g., region #4 in any of their home schools, or RMIB, or Wootton STEM. So who do you anticipate to choose the biomedical science program?

Who said anything about not offering Pre-Cal or Calc. In fact offer all schools offering Calculus is listed on the core courses. They used a base example in the slides of what is required. That doesn't mean a student can't go beyond. If a kid is on a higher math track, they will take the math that corresponds with where they are and where they want to go. That said, taking AP Stats is not a bad thing. Stats is used all over Biomedical Science and Medicine as I'm sure you know.

If students want to go beyond at some schools they have that ability, but at other schools they don’t. Why limit students? Not everyone wants to be a doctor. You are assuming students want it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

Well, I believe every MCPS HS offer AP Calc AB at least. Those ones choosing biomedical science program won't be taking AP Calc, and they will get a disadvantage in college application by comparing with other local HS students, aren't they? I'm asking a sincere question. From college admission perspective, what types of students would choose these programs if they can get AP bio/AP chem/AP Calc BC at their home schools (I assume every HS offer these, but Einstein family might have a different opinion).

There is no ap bio or chemistry.

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Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

Am I correct in thinking that McPS parents on the board seem largely out of their minds in wanting college courses at high schools, right?

It’s not being out of their mind. Even algebra is a college course. So, by your logic do we stop having algebra in high school? Some schools offer classes and others don’t. Why are you ok with some kids having access and not all?