Program Analysis Lets Shut It Down

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

Well, I believe every MCPS HS offer AP Calc AB at least. Those ones choosing biomedical science program won't be taking AP Calc, and they will get a disadvantage in college application by comparing with other local HS students, aren't they? I'm asking a sincere question. From college admission perspective, what types of students would choose these programs if they can get AP bio/AP chem/AP Calc BC at their home schools (I assume every HS offer these, but Einstein family might have a different opinion).

Why not? Anyone can take AP Calc if they've met the prerequisites.

People choose a program to get the other things that come with the program. Yes some advance classes, but usually courses geared towards a particular interest and a co-hort of similarly interested students. Additionally, there is usually extra things like exploratory learning opportunities and extra-curriculars that go with a program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

Skipping pre-Calc and Calc entirely meaning that those students who get into the criteria-based biomedical science program who are supposed to get more rigorous education and getting more competitive in college admission actually choose a slower math pathway than their home schools in many cases. Unless the bioscience electives could be really appealing, there's no incentive to choose these programs at all. And by the way, if analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry are among the bioscience elective options, sorry they will be eliminated as they require calculus knowledge.

Some of ya'll have really bumped your heads. As someone who was a science major I can tell you that no HS kids needs to be taking analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry. Why are you trying to bring all the collegiate courses down to the HS level?

pp here. I have a phd in biomedical science, and have a kid from MCPS in pre-med track right now. I'm talking about differentiation. What makes the biomedical science program more appealing than local HS offers if they don't even offer AP preCalc/Calc? The required major-specific courses only include IB HL chemistry and IB HL biology (only junior and senior years). No one knows what the biomedical selectives are, but MCPS hinted that they could be using what are offered currently at SMCS. But when you check those biology/chemistry courses in SMCS curriculum, you got know calculus. So the biomedical electives are probably CTE-oriented.

Kids can get a much better selection and rigorous education in e.g., region #4 in any of their home schools, or RMIB, or Wootton STEM. So who do you anticipate to choose the biomedical science program?

Who said anything about not offering Pre-Cal or Calc. In fact offer all schools offering Calculus is listed on the core courses. They used a base example in the slides of what is required. That doesn't mean a student can't go beyond. If a kid is on a higher math track, they will take the math that corresponds with where they are and where they want to go. That said, taking AP Stats is not a bad thing. Stats is used all over Biomedical Science and Medicine as I'm sure you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

Skipping pre-Calc and Calc entirely meaning that those students who get into the criteria-based biomedical science program who are supposed to get more rigorous education and getting more competitive in college admission actually choose a slower math pathway than their home schools in many cases. Unless the bioscience electives could be really appealing, there's no incentive to choose these programs at all. And by the way, if analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry are among the bioscience elective options, sorry they will be eliminated as they require calculus knowledge.

Some of ya'll have really bumped your heads. As someone who was a science major I can tell you that no HS kids needs to be taking analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry. Why are you trying to bring all the collegiate courses down to the HS level?

pp here. I have a phd in biomedical science, and have a kid from MCPS in pre-med track right now. I'm talking about differentiation. What makes the biomedical science program more appealing than local HS offers if they don't even offer AP preCalc/Calc? The required major-specific courses only include IB HL chemistry and IB HL biology (only junior and senior years). No one knows what the biomedical selectives are, but MCPS hinted that they could be using what are offered currently at SMCS. But when you check those biology/chemistry courses in SMCS curriculum, you got know calculus. So the biomedical electives are probably CTE-oriented.

Kids can get a much better selection and rigorous education in e.g., region #4 in any of their home schools, or RMIB, or Wootton STEM. So who do you anticipate to choose the biomedical science program?

Who said anything about not offering Pre-Cal or Calc. In fact offer all schools offering Calculus is listed on the core courses. They used a base example in the slides of what is required. That doesn't mean a student can't go beyond. If a kid is on a higher math track, they will take the math that corresponds with where they are and where they want to go. That said, taking AP Stats is not a bad thing. Stats is used all over Biomedical Science and Medicine as I'm sure you know.

If students want to go beyond at some schools they have that ability, but at other schools they don’t. Why limit students? Not everyone wants to be a doctor. You are assuming students want it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

Well, I believe every MCPS HS offer AP Calc AB at least. Those ones choosing biomedical science program won't be taking AP Calc, and they will get a disadvantage in college application by comparing with other local HS students, aren't they? I'm asking a sincere question. From college admission perspective, what types of students would choose these programs if they can get AP bio/AP chem/AP Calc BC at their home schools (I assume every HS offer these, but Einstein family might have a different opinion).

There is no ap bio or chemistry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

Am I correct in thinking that McPS parents on the board seem largely out of their minds in wanting college courses at high schools, right?

It’s not being out of their mind. Even algebra is a college course. So, by your logic do we stop having algebra in high school? Some schools offer classes and others don’t. Why are you ok with some kids having access and not all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

Skipping pre-Calc and Calc entirely meaning that those students who get into the criteria-based biomedical science program who are supposed to get more rigorous education and getting more competitive in college admission actually choose a slower math pathway than their home schools in many cases. Unless the bioscience electives could be really appealing, there's no incentive to choose these programs at all. And by the way, if analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry are among the bioscience elective options, sorry they will be eliminated as they require calculus knowledge.

Some of ya'll have really bumped your heads. As someone who was a science major I can tell you that no HS kids needs to be taking analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry. Why are you trying to bring all the collegiate courses down to the HS level?

pp here. I have a phd in biomedical science, and have a kid from MCPS in pre-med track right now. I'm talking about differentiation. What makes the biomedical science program more appealing than local HS offers if they don't even offer AP preCalc/Calc? The required major-specific courses only include IB HL chemistry and IB HL biology (only junior and senior years). No one knows what the biomedical selectives are, but MCPS hinted that they could be using what are offered currently at SMCS. But when you check those biology/chemistry courses in SMCS curriculum, you got know calculus. So the biomedical electives are probably CTE-oriented.

Kids can get a much better selection and rigorous education in e.g., region #4 in any of their home schools, or RMIB, or Wootton STEM. So who do you anticipate to choose the biomedical science program?

Who said anything about not offering Pre-Cal or Calc. In fact offer all schools offering Calculus is listed on the core courses. They used a base example in the slides of what is required. That doesn't mean a student can't go beyond. If a kid is on a higher math track, they will take the math that corresponds with where they are and where they want to go. That said, taking AP Stats is not a bad thing. Stats is used all over Biomedical Science and Medicine as I'm sure you know.

If students want to go beyond at some schools they have that ability, but at other schools they don’t. Why limit students? Not everyone wants to be a doctor. You are assuming students want it.

I’m not assuming students want to be a doctor unless they say so. I am assuming that any student who applies to a Biomedical science program wants to do something is Biomedical science or some type of science. Otherwise, why apply to the program.

And this is not about limiting students it’s about determining what court and what level of courses will be offered at schools and as part of programs. Just because students want to go further and further doesn’t mean the district needs to import in every collegiate level course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

Skipping pre-Calc and Calc entirely meaning that those students who get into the criteria-based biomedical science program who are supposed to get more rigorous education and getting more competitive in college admission actually choose a slower math pathway than their home schools in many cases. Unless the bioscience electives could be really appealing, there's no incentive to choose these programs at all. And by the way, if analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry are among the bioscience elective options, sorry they will be eliminated as they require calculus knowledge.

Some of ya'll have really bumped your heads. As someone who was a science major I can tell you that no HS kids needs to be taking analytical chemistry, bio chemistry or physical chemistry. Why are you trying to bring all the collegiate courses down to the HS level?

pp here. I have a phd in biomedical science, and have a kid from MCPS in pre-med track right now. I'm talking about differentiation. What makes the biomedical science program more appealing than local HS offers if they don't even offer AP preCalc/Calc? The required major-specific courses only include IB HL chemistry and IB HL biology (only junior and senior years). No one knows what the biomedical selectives are, but MCPS hinted that they could be using what are offered currently at SMCS. But when you check those biology/chemistry courses in SMCS curriculum, you got know calculus. So the biomedical electives are probably CTE-oriented.

Kids can get a much better selection and rigorous education in e.g., region #4 in any of their home schools, or RMIB, or Wootton STEM. So who do you anticipate to choose the biomedical science program?

Who said anything about not offering Pre-Cal or Calc. In fact offer all schools offering Calculus is listed on the core courses. They used a base example in the slides of what is required. That doesn't mean a student can't go beyond. If a kid is on a higher math track, they will take the math that corresponds with where they are and where they want to go. That said, taking AP Stats is not a bad thing. Stats is used all over Biomedical Science and Medicine as I'm sure you know.

If students want to go beyond at some schools they have that ability, but at other schools they don’t. Why limit students? Not everyone wants to be a doctor. You are assuming students want it.

I’m not assuming students want to be a doctor unless they say so. I am assuming that any student who applies to a Biomedical science program wants to do something is Biomedical science or some type of science. Otherwise, why apply to the program.

And this is not about limiting students it’s about determining what court and what level of courses will be offered at schools and as part of programs. Just because students want to go further and further doesn’t mean the district needs to import in every collegiate level course.

If the goal is to keep students at their home schools, drop these programs as they are unnecessary and expand the offerings at schools that don’t have a lot. Students at lesser schools cannot compete with students who have more opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My question to everybody who is against the regional 6 program... don't you think this will increase the amount of space across the county? Currently, in SMAC, there are about 200 spaces in the county. But now there will be about 600. I know for the Blair program, they have around 1000 applicants from across the county, I wonder how many of those were DCC?

People who are hoarding pie never want the pie to get bigger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the new presentation slides more closely, and found out that integrated math 1 (IM1; covering Algebra 1 and a little bit of geometry) is assumed for all programs, except for IB and STEM. For IB, they are allowed to move up, and for STEM, they start with IM2 (covering some geometry and Algebra 2). Right now SMCS begins with Algebra 2 for the slowest path and function for the fastest path. For RMIB, I believe they have a similar slow and fast path beginning levels.

So in the new regional model, the fastest math pathway would be: IM2 -> PreCalc -> Calc AB -> Calc BC/AP Stat. This is one year slower than the fastest math pathway provided right now at MCPS:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/k-q/poolesvillehs/uploadedfiles/departments/math/mathpathways.pdf

For biomedical science program (Page 43), the math pathway skips the entire preCalc and Calc, but only offers AP Stat for junior and senior years. This makes me doubt if anyone in the design team really has any biomedical background. Calculus is a required course in any R1 colleges for the biomedical/bioengineering major.

Wondering how folks here think about the water down of across-board math pathway.

All these curriculum pathways are copied and pasted from MSDE documents. No one at MCPS even thought to compare them with programs like Blair and Wheaton.

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Biomedical_Science-A.pdf

https://marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/CTE/standards/HHS_Certified_Clinical_Medical_Assistant-A.pdf

Ah... Thanks! The two links make a lot more sense to me now. So MCPS sugarcoated the biomedical science track (criteria-based) to make it look like a track for pre-med/doctor career, but indeed, this is CTE-oriented and the goal is to train nurse/nurse practitioner!

Such a waste of the proximity to NIH and those large pharmaceutical companies.

It would more be a CNA/Nurse, not nurse practictioner or a PA. What were you expecting it to be?

pre-med/doctor career is a college track not a high school track. Pre-Med is a set of college courses that need to be completed in order to apply and enter medical school. HS is about giving students a first exploration at career options and preparing them for what is needed for college or career. Getting them setup to be able to obtain an early clinical related certification such as a CNA or PT would actually be helpful. It something to put on the resume, it a viable way to make income while in college, and provides them greater exposure to put medical/science fields and personnel.

And while Calculus may be a required class, students are not required to take it prior to college. Additionally, the slides is just showing an option for the math pathway, they are not saying that is the ONLY math pathway. The greater majority of students have not been starting HS at Pre-Cal. They are either starting at Alg2 or Geo. Given the new integrated Algebra forthcoming, parents are still waiting to hear all of what will be covered and what will/should happen post IM2 for kids who would normally be moving into Pre-Cal.

The colleges we have talked to want a minimum of Calc BC but recommend higher. And, its a good foundation to take it in HS and repeat it in college.

What colleges have you been talking to, and are you talking to them about engineering?

Same question. All of the colleges we've talked to say the same thing, Calc is nice and depending on both major and initial placement test will determine if it has to be taken again. Most kids are not going to MTI or even schools in the T-25. That doesn't mean they won't be going to a good college nor does it mean they won't be going to medical school later. Not to mention there's a great many that will change majors anyway.

Even the lower rated schools are looking at taking higher level classes. Attend some of the open houses. Of course kids can take it in college and do very well, but you have to get into college first. If a child from Whitman who has a huge range of upper level classes competes with a child from Kennedy who is equally smart but only has limited classes due to the lack of offerings, who do you think that college will choose?

College compare kids against their own HS because they know that the course offerings are different between schools. Do you think that all schools across the country offer the same programs that MCPS does? Yet plenty of those students will also go to some the same colleges as students from MCPS. And taking upper level classes is not restricted to only Calc BC nor do colleges expect to see collegiate level courses like Analytical Chemistry or Physical Chemistry on the transcripts of most HS kids.

This is true, but it is also true that certain courses are looked for in limited enrollment programs. So a family with a kid That wants a rigorous engineering program might be spending money on summer college courses to fill that gap before senior year of HS. We did before my daughter decided that she didn’t want to be an engineer and changed to a different stem field. Ultimately, it was her choice because she fell in love with something else, but it would have been so horrible if the switch had been because of lack of opportunity in high school.

We already have a very tight rein over where kids can attend school due to a lack of affordable housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My question to everybody who is against the regional 6 program... don't you think this will increase the amount of space across the county? Currently, in SMAC, there are about 200 spaces in the county. But now there will be about 600. I know for the Blair program, they have around 1000 applicants from across the county, I wonder how many of those were DCC?

People who are hoarding pie never want the pie to get bigger.

To whoever is fixating on so-called hoarding - one point you're missing is that you're assuming the same quality of pie is being expanded. So in this analogy, the current countywide magnets are the premium pie from the gourmet specialty pie shop. But the 6 region model is not the same. MCPS says they want to offer a special pie in all 6 regions, but will not offer the same premium specialty pie that already exists. Meanwhile, MCPS is marketing the new product using the same premium pie name (aka false advertising). But regions will actually get a generic grocery store pie with the name of the fancy pie attached to it, with higher prices. Some customers can distinguish the difference and others won't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My question to everybody who is against the regional 6 program... don't you think this will increase the amount of space across the county? Currently, in SMAC, there are about 200 spaces in the county. But now there will be about 600. I know for the Blair program, they have around 1000 applicants from across the county, I wonder how many of those were DCC?

People who are hoarding pie never want the pie to get bigger.

It's not hoarding pie to share a pie amongst the people that don't have their own personal pies.

[Anonymous]

And now they are proposing taking that shared pie away and replacing it with smaller pies to be shared with people that have their own personal pies.

[Anonymous]

But each school has its own pie (per budgets). And schools all don’t have the same needs or demands. It is truly odd to demand that everything be the same when not all schools have the same needs.

[Anonymous]

Now they take away the original pie, soak it in water, and slice the “swelling” pie into a million pieces, and hand it to everyone and claim victory of equity. You get your swelling rotten pie and cheer with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But each school has its own pie (per budgets). And schools all don’t have the same needs or demands. It is truly odd to demand that everything be the same when not all schools have the same needs.

There is a difference between:
- Offering the exact same number of sections for each course at every school. Nobody is suggesting this.
And
- Offering the opportunity for every MCPS student to access the same courses at their home schools - this is what people want. There are kids of every level at every school, but the cohorts at each level are different sizes. You can't say the 50 kids at Whitman "need" a class but 20 similar kids at Kennedy do not need that class.