student admissions and TJ lawsuit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's more than that - given the relatively high % of Asians in elite colleges, they figure that their own children will benefit from legacy preferences. The reason that white and asian people hate affirmative action is because they do not benefit. They have no problem with preferential admissions policies as long as it helps them (and also don't help groups they deem undesirable).

This is important. There is an undercurrent at TJ of parents who have no future potential TJ applicants but who are displeased with the admissions changes because part of the appeal of TJ was that their students would not have to attend a school with Black kids and would therefore "be safe".

How shameless can you be? How do you sleep at night? Do you always project this hard onto others? You're exploiting one racial group that you've already damaged in order to attack a different racial group that you don't like. Using an accusation that has no basis in rational fact.

Don't pretend like we don't all know that the TJ changes happened at the behest of a rich White Savior who sends his own kids to private schools. Or that he literally used a fudge factor in his admissions number just to make sure there'd be fewer Asians.

If the parents have such hostility towards Black and brown people, to the kids at TJ treat them the same way at school?

Ok, Ms. Rachael Dolezal, sorry for raising a rational objection to your earlier shameless post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Wasn't that already accomplished by the 1.5% per school quota? Did they also need to completely gut the application in a way that makes it impossible to distinguish between academic outliers and merely above average kids?

They did not need to gut it, but by doing so, they decreased the ability to distinguish between high ceiling applicants. I can only assume that they did so to ensure future TJ classes are less competitive as a whole, which means that kids who get in but who were not particular STEM standouts will have a less chance to fail once they are there. Reading between the lines, they are strategically covering their butt in case the diversity they engineered backfires later (with respect to more kids not being able to keep up, or going back to base school). Basically in their eyes TJ is too competitive and should be toned down a bit, and the simplest way to do that (other than a lottery) is to just remove stringent admission requirements.

you raise very good points, but SB is not that smart and they don't care at all what will happen to TJ down the road. There is no accountability. Their true motivation is personal -immediate political points, as was clearly evident in the TJ papers released as part of the lawsuit

The "TJ papers" just revealed the indolence and casual racism of FCPS School Board members.

They are all Democrats. They knew that the members representing the districts that were sending few kids to TJ were salivating at the opportunity to deliver some old-fashioned pork-barrel politics by making sure more kids from Lee, Mason, and Mount Vernon Districts are going to TJ. And that at least two of the at-large members (Keys Gamarra and Omeish) just want more URMs there.

So the rest basically went along for the ride, at times bemused by the antics of Brabrand and their fellow Board members, and at times willing to engage in easy anti-Asian and anti-White rhetoric because that's considered OK.

They paid little attention to the details and gave little thought to how the changes will be operationalized over the coming years. Some didn't really understand how the middle school set-asides were intended to work, or that they would effectively penalize kids attending AAP centers who, had they known FCPS's plans, might have opted to stay at their base middle schools.

Ultimately, they just want to have pictures in June 2025 of a TJ graduation ceremony with more Black and Hispanic faces they can plaster all over FCPS's web site before they run for their next office. It doesn't have much if anything to do with STEM education or selecting the most qualified students.

Bs! Keys doesn’t care about URM’s. She’s just a Black face they put on white supremacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is important. There is an undercurrent at TJ of parents who have no future potential TJ applicants but who are displeased with the admissions changes because part of the appeal of TJ was that their students would not have to attend a school with Black kids and would therefore "be safe".

How shameless can you be? How do you sleep at night? Do you always project this hard onto others? You're exploiting one racial group that you've already damaged in order to attack a different racial group that you don't like. Using an accusation that has no basis in rational fact.

Don't pretend like we don't all know that the TJ changes happened at the behest of a rich White Savior who sends his own kids to private schools. Or that he literally used a fudge factor in his admissions number just to make sure there'd be fewer Asians.

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

I don't see anything inaccurate about it. Anything can be politically rationalized after the fact. Even then, the belief that it's to give "all students" a "fair chance" is still heavily disputed. It definitely doesn't give truly elite minds a fair chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,

So you’re saying that children born to families that do not have the advantage of being able to put education above all else are just out of luck? Just too bad for you kids born to uneducated or lower income parents (who didn’t have any advantages when they grew up either)?

You’re willing to say that only children who win the lottery of being born to parents who prioritize education should have the opportunity to go to a school like TJ? Do you even hear how the the paragraph quoted above sounds?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,

So you’re saying that children born to families that do not have the advantage of being able to put education above all else are just out of luck? Just too bad for you kids born to uneducated or lower income parents (who didn’t have any advantages when they grew up either)?

You’re willing to say that only children who win the lottery of being born to parents who prioritize education should have the opportunity to go to a school like TJ? Do you even hear how the the paragraph quoted above sounds?

Everyone should have the opportunity to be a billionaire. How does that sound? Progressive enough?...oh wait. billionaires shouldn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,

So you’re saying that children born to families that do not have the advantage of being able to put education above all else are just out of luck? Just too bad for you kids born to uneducated or lower income parents (who didn’t have any advantages when they grew up either)?

You’re willing to say that only children who win the lottery of being born to parents who prioritize education should have the opportunity to go to a school like TJ? Do you even hear how the the paragraph quoted above sounds?

Everyone should have the opportunity to be a billionaire. How does that sound? Progressive enough?...oh wait. billionaires shouldn't exist.

The above quote is talking about taking public educational opportunities away from children who did not have the advantage of being born to parents who prioritize education above all else. Children cannot choose their parents. Specialized public schools are paid for by all taxpayers and should not be *more* available to kids who happened to be born to parents who provide them with lots of educational extras.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,

So you’re saying that children born to families that do not have the advantage of being able to put education above all else are just out of luck? Just too bad for you kids born to uneducated or lower income parents (who didn’t have any advantages when they grew up either)?

You’re willing to say that only children who win the lottery of being born to parents who prioritize education should have the opportunity to go to a school like TJ? Do you even hear how the the paragraph quoted above sounds?

That’s not what they are saying. They are saying that if you’re not white and you get into TJ, you should be Asian. That’s what they are saying.

[Anonymous]

Why is woke dcurbanmom keeps deleting my post?

[Anonymous]

The bolded is the type of Asian student that many people think of when they think of TJ. This is an inspiring story and one that certainly exists in the TJ community - but it is a very small percentage of the "Asian" TJ demographic. Additionally, these families - while there is a population center in Annandale - are relatively well-spread out amongst Northern Virginia and are not targeted by the TJ admissions changes. Indeed, they may benefit from them because of the impact on other demographics.

The far larger portion of the "Asian" TJ demographic consists of very affluent, well-educated, and relatively recent immigrants, mostly from India. These families came to the Northern Virginia area specifically for the combination of access to TJ and the Dulles tech boom about 10-15 years ago. They quickly consolidated into housing and worship communities and are concentrated heavily in Herndon, Chantilly, Ashburn, and South Riding. It is a matter of common understanding at TJ that these communities are extremely invested in TJ and academic prestige as a whole and work very hard to position themselves and their friends' children for the TJ admissions process from an early age - even during pregnancy.

It's beyond obvious to any sophisticated observer of the TJ admissions situation that these families - not the Chinese or Koreans or Vietnamese - are the ones who are targeted by the admissions policy changes. Different people can fall on different sides of the discussion of whether or not that's a positive, but that's the reality of the situation and ignoring it is silly.


+1000
Most people are nice but in any group of people, there is always a percentage of crazy. It is horrible how parents in this area will treat each other just to get their kid ahead. It’s just as bad a “Dance Moms”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,

So you’re saying that children born to families that do not have the advantage of being able to put education above all else are just out of luck? Just too bad for you kids born to uneducated or lower income parents (who didn’t have any advantages when they grew up either)?

You’re willing to say that only children who win the lottery of being born to parents who prioritize education should have the opportunity to go to a school like TJ? Do you even hear how the the paragraph quoted above sounds?

Many Asian students that attend TJ or apply to TJ are lower/middle class who prioritize education above consumer products, vacations, expensive cars, eating out etc. etc. to buy things related to education such as computers, extra classes, EC activities etc. HHI of about 45,000 - 85,000 does not equal privileged.

Also, 50,000 income may not qualify for FARMs but do not equate non-farms status with wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The bolded is the type of Asian student that many people think of when they think of TJ. This is an inspiring story and one that certainly exists in the TJ community - but it is a very small percentage of the "Asian" TJ demographic. Additionally, these families - while there is a population center in Annandale - are relatively well-spread out amongst Northern Virginia and are not targeted by the TJ admissions changes. Indeed, they may benefit from them because of the impact on other demographics.

The far larger portion of the "Asian" TJ demographic consists of very affluent, well-educated, and relatively recent immigrants, mostly from India. These families came to the Northern Virginia area specifically for the combination of access to TJ and the Dulles tech boom about 10-15 years ago. They quickly consolidated into housing and worship communities and are concentrated heavily in Herndon, Chantilly, Ashburn, and South Riding. It is a matter of common understanding at TJ that these communities are extremely invested in TJ and academic prestige as a whole and work very hard to position themselves and their friends' children for the TJ admissions process from an early age - even during pregnancy.

I am in the camp of the reform having gone too far since DD just did the process and it was ridiculous how the “test” does nothing to show math aptitude ag all now.
That said, I 100% agree that reforms were needed to address the issue of people strategizing for years on how to get their kid into TJ and doing all the test prep along with it. It’s ridiculous and disadvantages plenty of really smart kids whose parents chose not to structure their entire lives around TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So you’re saying that children born to families that do not have the advantage of being able to put education above all else are just out of luck? Just too bad for you kids born to uneducated or lower income parents (who didn’t have any advantages when they grew up either)?

You’re willing to say that only children who win the lottery of being born to parents who prioritize education should have the opportunity to go to a school like TJ? Do you even hear how the the paragraph quoted above sounds?

I'm willing to say that by middle school, if the parents don't value education but the kid wants to go to TJ, the kid needs to show some initiative. Every single middle school has some STEM extracurriculars. Any kid can sign up for math contests. For the kids who are unaware of the opportunities, surely they could talk to a math teacher or counselor at the school for advice. I don't buy the notion that a kid who has done absolutely nothing in middle school, aside from getting good grades, belongs at TJ. I also think the handful of brilliant, disadvantaged kids in the county were more likely to be detected in the old system than the new system.

I am willing to say that TJ is for the kids who are enough beyond the regular AP/IB offerings at their base school that they need more. If you're going to attend TJ and largely take the same classes that were available at your base school, there's no point in being at TJ. The only thing kids in that situation would have accomplished is that they would completely sabotage their college admissions by being in the bottom half at TJ rather than the top 5% of their base school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I am in the camp of the reform having gone too far since DD just did the process and it was ridiculous how the “test” does nothing to show math aptitude ag all now.
That said, I 100% agree that reforms were needed to address the issue of people strategizing for years on how to get their kid into TJ and doing all the test prep along with it. It’s ridiculous and disadvantages plenty of really smart kids whose parents chose not to structure their entire lives around TJ.

I wish FCPS had accepted the offer from Vern Williams to write a math test for TJ admissions.

I'm not sure that the test prep industry impacts that many FCPS kids. A goodly chunk of the kids attending Curie or other similar programs are Loudoun residents and are taking the LCPS designated seats. It was somewhat obvious when Curie listed the kids who were admitted to TJ, because a large number of them were also admitted to AOS or AET.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,

So you’re saying that children born to families that do not have the advantage of being able to put education above all else are just out of luck? Just too bad for you kids born to uneducated or lower income parents (who didn’t have any advantages when they grew up either)?

You’re willing to say that only children who win the lottery of being born to parents who prioritize education should have the opportunity to go to a school like TJ? Do you even hear how the the paragraph quoted above sounds?

Everyone should have the opportunity to be a billionaire. How does that sound? Progressive enough?...oh wait. billionaires shouldn't exist.

The above quote is talking about taking public educational opportunities away from children who did not have the advantage of being born to parents who prioritize education above all else. Children cannot choose their parents. Specialized public schools are paid for by all taxpayers and should not be *more* available to kids who happened to be born to parents who provide them with lots of educational extras.

I disagree. You are making the lottery argument. I believe in a competitive process for scarce resources. If we can't have that, just shut it down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am in the camp of the reform having gone too far since DD just did the process and it was ridiculous how the “test” does nothing to show math aptitude ag all now.
That said, I 100% agree that reforms were needed to address the issue of people strategizing for years on how to get their kid into TJ and doing all the test prep along with it. It’s ridiculous and disadvantages plenty of really smart kids whose parents chose not to structure their entire lives around TJ.

I wish FCPS had accepted the offer from Vern Williams to write a math test for TJ admissions.

I'm not sure that the test prep industry impacts that many FCPS kids. A goodly chunk of the kids attending Curie or other similar programs are Loudoun residents and are taking the LCPS designated seats. It was somewhat obvious when Curie listed the kids who were admitted to TJ, because a large number of them were also admitted to AOS or AET.

I think the Vern Williams experiment would have led to the inconvenient truth - Asians would dominate admissions again in the 80-85% range. We do not like to have to admit that outcome, but we all know it's true.