student admissions and TJ lawsuit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course they can change admissions but the way they did it — secretively at first, statements against Asian American students my multiple decision makers, with no proper process, notice or public hearing— is not okay.

Who made statements against Asian American students, and what did they say?

They just want to play victim.

These are people who fundamentally believe....

....that an admissions process that admits 54% Asians and 20% Black and Latino students....

....is MORE racist than a process that admits 73% Asians and 3% Black and Latino students.

They believe themselves to be better, pure and simple. They genuinely believe that as a class of people, they work harder, care more about education, and just fundamentally are smarter to such a degree that they should have more Asian students in ONE ADMITTED CLASS than TJ has had Black students in its ENTIRE 35-year history.

That is called Asian supremacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course they can change admissions but the way they did it — secretively at first, statements against Asian American students my multiple decision makers, with no proper process, notice or public hearing— is not okay.

Who made statements against Asian American students, and what did they say?

They just want to play victim.

These are people who fundamentally believe....

....that an admissions process that admits 54% Asians and 20% Black and Latino students....

....is MORE racist than a process that admits 73% Asians and 3% Black and Latino students.

They believe themselves to be better, pure and simple. They genuinely believe that as a class of people, they work harder, care more about education, and just fundamentally are smarter to such a degree that they should have more Asian students in ONE ADMITTED CLASS than TJ has had Black students in its ENTIRE 35-year history.

That is called Asian supremacy.

No, it’s called hard work and perseverance in the face of racial discrimination that the majority declines to acknowledge since Asians are supposed to shut up and bend over no matter what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course they can change admissions but the way they did it — secretively at first, statements against Asian American students my multiple decision makers, with no proper process, notice or public hearing— is not okay.

Who made statements against Asian American students, and what did they say?

They just want to play victim.

These are people who fundamentally believe....

....that an admissions process that admits 54% Asians and 20% Black and Latino students....

....is MORE racist than a process that admits 73% Asians and 3% Black and Latino students.

They believe themselves to be better, pure and simple. They genuinely believe that as a class of people, they work harder, care more about education, and just fundamentally are smarter to such a degree that they should have more Asian students in ONE ADMITTED CLASS than TJ has had Black students in its ENTIRE 35-year history.

That is called Asian supremacy.

No, it’s called hard work and perseverance in the face of racial discrimination that the majority declines to acknowledge since Asians are supposed to shut up and bend over no matter what.

Believing you have a monopoly on "hard work and perseverance in the face of racial discrimination that the majority declines to acknowledge" is also emblematic of Asian supremacy. It's a tortured narrative that is also used by aggrieved white people when they feel like they're being replaced in spaces that they feel entitled to.

Textbook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For example, the presentation on the Depression was incredibly naive. As an economist, I think they could easily do better.

Go on….

Yay! Big government miraculously pulls us out of a Depression that only lasted eight years! FDR saves the nation! Hoover didn't care since he didn't enlarge the government enough. (He did expand the government: look it up.) FDR further expands the government and eventually going into war saves the economy.
Never mind that no economic downturn had ever lasted that long in the past. I'm sure that there was no alternative view on what was happening and how to fix it. After all, the teacher didn't mention it. We certainly wouldn't want to look at the issues discussed in the 1936 election.

This year was 300 years of APUSH taught in less 75% of the normal time. My kid took it this year, and it moved so fast to get the material in. They have never dug in depth on each election because it’s not on the exam, and they certainly didn’t have time to add extra this year. What you want is better taught in AP Econ or a 200 or 300 level college class focusing on the Depression. My kid learned a lot in APUSH, but the class (like AP World) is a mile wide and an inch deep— a survey class. Your kid got a survey. Don’t like it? Take it up with the College Board. It’s their curriculum and you knew that when your kid took the class.

I have no idea what this has to do with the TJ lawsuit though.

— not a teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For example, the presentation on the Depression was incredibly naive. As an economist, I think they could easily do better.

Go on….

Yay! Big government miraculously pulls us out of a Depression that only lasted eight years! FDR saves the nation! Hoover didn't care since he didn't enlarge the government enough. (He did expand the government: look it up.) FDR further expands the government and eventually going into war saves the economy.
Never mind that no economic downturn had ever lasted that long in the past. I'm sure that there was no alternative view on what was happening and how to fix it. After all, the teacher didn't mention it. We certainly wouldn't want to look at the issues discussed in the 1936 election.

This year was 300 years of APUSH taught in less 75% of the normal time. My kid took it this year, and it moved so fast to get the material in. They have never dug in depth on each election because it’s not on the exam, and they certainly didn’t have time to add extra this year. What you want is better taught in AP Econ or a 200 or 300 level college class focusing on the Depression. My kid learned a lot in APUSH, but the class (like AP World) is a mile wide and an inch deep— a survey class. Your kid got a survey. Don’t like it? Take it up with the College Board. It’s their curriculum and you knew that when your kid took the class.

I have no idea what this has to do with the TJ lawsuit though.

— not a teacher.

I think they're trying to own the libs. One of the principles of conservative engagement on anonymous fora is that once you own the libs on one point, you win all of the arguments forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has been "robbed." It is a taxpayer-funded public school. Admission policies can change. As a Fairfax taxpayer, I'm glad to see admissions will be more evenly spread across the county. I'd rather it become an academy where more kids could take lab-oriented classes.

Admissions can’t be changed in a discriminatory manner - which the Supreme Court has already ruled when it comes to quotas. I am in favor of letting the case play out and living with the outcome. I don’t care how it plays out, I just want it resolved once and for all.

There are no racial quota. Our entire Congess is based on geographic quotas.

Look, even if the case is ruled against FCPS, all they are going to do is go back to the drawing board and find a different way to achieve the same or similar outcome. They have a compelling interest in making the school accessible to all of the middle schools that it serves.

As for the geographic quotas, it’s no fault of FCPS that families have self-segregated to the extent that they have. It’s not FCPS’ fault that while East and Southeast Asians are spread roughly evenly through the area, there is an extreme concentration of South Asians in Herndon and Chantilly.

What’s not going to happen is you’re not going to get an exam back. Exams cost money and the application fee is gone for good - and there is far too much evidence that confirms that having an exam confers a huge advantage in families who are willing to invest the time and resources on expensive and grueling prep, and that’s bad for the TJ environment and Northern Virginia at large no matter how you slice it.

Exams also can be gamed. The first exam is fair but the in the following years exams are no longer fair because prep companies encourage kids who took the exam to remember questions and report back to help the next year test takers from that prep center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has been "robbed." It is a taxpayer-funded public school. Admission policies can change. As a Fairfax taxpayer, I'm glad to see admissions will be more evenly spread across the county. I'd rather it become an academy where more kids could take lab-oriented classes.

Admissions can’t be changed in a discriminatory manner - which the Supreme Court has already ruled when it comes to quotas. I am in favor of letting the case play out and living with the outcome. I don’t care how it plays out, I just want it resolved once and for all.

There are no racial quota. Our entire Congess is based on geographic quotas.

Look, even if the case is ruled against FCPS, all they are going to do is go back to the drawing board and find a different way to achieve the same or similar outcome. They have a compelling interest in making the school accessible to all of the middle schools that it serves.

As for the geographic quotas, it’s no fault of FCPS that families have self-segregated to the extent that they have. It’s not FCPS’ fault that while East and Southeast Asians are spread roughly evenly through the area, there is an extreme concentration of South Asians in Herndon and Chantilly.

What’s not going to happen is you’re not going to get an exam back. Exams cost money and the application fee is gone for good - and there is far too much evidence that confirms that having an exam confers a huge advantage in families who are willing to invest the time and resources on expensive and grueling prep, and that’s bad for the TJ environment and Northern Virginia at large no matter how you slice it.

Exams also can be gamed. The first exam is fair but the in the following years exams are no longer fair because prep companies encourage kids who took the exam to remember questions and report back to help the next year test takers from that prep center.

Bingo. And it's not realistic to completely change the format of the exam every year in order to try to outpace the prep companies - they're far too good at what they do. The only answer is an opaque process that doesn't involve an exam, and selecting a balanced class that actually serves the goals of the institution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For example, the presentation on the Depression was incredibly naive. As an economist, I think they could easily do better.

Go on….

Yay! Big government miraculously pulls us out of a Depression that only lasted eight years! FDR saves the nation! Hoover didn't care since he didn't enlarge the government enough. (He did expand the government: look it up.) FDR further expands the government and eventually going into war saves the economy.
Never mind that no economic downturn had ever lasted that long in the past. I'm sure that there was no alternative view on what was happening and how to fix it. After all, the teacher didn't mention it. We certainly wouldn't want to look at the issues discussed in the 1936 election.

A couple things here. 1) Feel free to teach your DC this extra info. Parents do it ALL the time. Oh you learned about (blank)? Did you know (blank)? 2) Teachers are given a curriculum with standards. Did you review it on VDOE? Maybe limited info was taught so that they could spend time in other areas. VDOE often asks for parent feedback, feel free to give yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has been "robbed." It is a taxpayer-funded public school. Admission policies can change. As a Fairfax taxpayer, I'm glad to see admissions will be more evenly spread across the county. I'd rather it become an academy where more kids could take lab-oriented classes.

Admissions can’t be changed in a discriminatory manner - which the Supreme Court has already ruled when it comes to quotas. I am in favor of letting the case play out and living with the outcome. I don’t care how it plays out, I just want it resolved once and for all.

There are no racial quota. Our entire Congess is based on geographic quotas.

Look, even if the case is ruled against FCPS, all they are going to do is go back to the drawing board and find a different way to achieve the same or similar outcome. They have a compelling interest in making the school accessible to all of the middle schools that it serves.

As for the geographic quotas, it’s no fault of FCPS that families have self-segregated to the extent that they have. It’s not FCPS’ fault that while East and Southeast Asians are spread roughly evenly through the area, there is an extreme concentration of South Asians in Herndon and Chantilly.

What’s not going to happen is you’re not going to get an exam back. Exams cost money and the application fee is gone for good - and there is far too much evidence that confirms that having an exam confers a huge advantage in families who are willing to invest the time and resources on expensive and grueling prep, and that’s bad for the TJ environment and Northern Virginia at large no matter how you slice it.

Exams also can be gamed. The first exam is fair but the in the following years exams are no longer fair because prep companies encourage kids who took the exam to remember questions and report back to help the next year test takers from that prep center.

Bingo. And it's not realistic to completely change the format of the exam every year in order to try to outpace the prep companies - they're far too good at what they do. The only answer is an opaque process that doesn't involve an exam, and selecting a balanced class that actually serves the goals of the institution.

Bring your cause to higher education, public education, AP test companies, etc. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has been "robbed." It is a taxpayer-funded public school. Admission policies can change. As a Fairfax taxpayer, I'm glad to see admissions will be more evenly spread across the county. I'd rather it become an academy where more kids could take lab-oriented classes.

Admissions can’t be changed in a discriminatory manner - which the Supreme Court has already ruled when it comes to quotas. I am in favor of letting the case play out and living with the outcome. I don’t care how it plays out, I just want it resolved once and for all.

There are no racial quota. Our entire Congess is based on geographic quotas.

Look, even if the case is ruled against FCPS, all they are going to do is go back to the drawing board and find a different way to achieve the same or similar outcome. They have a compelling interest in making the school accessible to all of the middle schools that it serves.

As for the geographic quotas, it’s no fault of FCPS that families have self-segregated to the extent that they have. It’s not FCPS’ fault that while East and Southeast Asians are spread roughly evenly through the area, there is an extreme concentration of South Asians in Herndon and Chantilly.

What’s not going to happen is you’re not going to get an exam back. Exams cost money and the application fee is gone for good - and there is far too much evidence that confirms that having an exam confers a huge advantage in families who are willing to invest the time and resources on expensive and grueling prep, and that’s bad for the TJ environment and Northern Virginia at large no matter how you slice it.

Exams also can be gamed. The first exam is fair but the in the following years exams are no longer fair because prep companies encourage kids who took the exam to remember questions and report back to help the next year test takers from that prep center.

Bingo. And it's not realistic to completely change the format of the exam every year in order to try to outpace the prep companies - they're far too good at what they do. The only answer is an opaque process that doesn't involve an exam, and selecting a balanced class that actually serves the goals of the institution.

Bring your cause to higher education, public education, AP test companies, etc. Good luck!

Elite universities are already moving towards test-optional or non-submission models for this exact reason. Importance of AP exams goes down every year. TJ has been staggeringly behind the curve in accepting this new reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For example, the presentation on the Depression was incredibly naive. As an economist, I think they could easily do better.

Go on….

Yay! Big government miraculously pulls us out of a Depression that only lasted eight years! FDR saves the nation! Hoover didn't care since he didn't enlarge the government enough. (He did expand the government: look it up.) FDR further expands the government and eventually going into war saves the economy.
Never mind that no economic downturn had ever lasted that long in the past. I'm sure that there was no alternative view on what was happening and how to fix it. After all, the teacher didn't mention it. We certainly wouldn't want to look at the issues discussed in the 1936 election.

A couple things here. 1) Feel free to teach your DC this extra info. Parents do it ALL the time. Oh you learned about (blank)? Did you know (blank)? 2) Teachers are given a curriculum with standards. Did you review it on VDOE? Maybe limited info was taught so that they could spend time in other areas. VDOE often asks for parent feedback, feel free to give yours.

For many TJ students APUSH or the combined Government/English classes (forget the acronym) are perfunctory courses to 1) pad their GPA and 2) meet graduation requirements (in that order). Even though they are encouraged to look beyond the curriculum for deeper understanding and knowledge about a particular topic, their primary concern is acing the AP Calc or Differential Math exam and not digging for deeper insight into the 1932 election and the success of Roosevelt's every man approach.

[Anonymous]

You claimed that I was full of crap when I said students were indoctrinated and only presented one side of an issue. I gave you an example. You asked me to elaborate and I did. You then basically admitted that only one side was taught because APUSH is designed to be a shallow survey. Thank you for your admission of defeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You claimed that I was full of crap when I said students were indoctrinated and only presented one side of an issue. I gave you an example. You asked me to elaborate and I did. You then basically admitted that only one side was taught because APUSH is designed to be a shallow survey. Thank you for your admission of defeat.

World's biggest eyeroll.

When you claim that students are being indoctrinated, your statement is pointless unless you are arguing that somehow the teachers are engaging in some sort of nefarious brainwashing plan.

So, fine. You won a point that was pointless. Congratulations. Enjoy your inane victory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course they can change admissions but the way they did it — secretively at first, statements against Asian American students my multiple decision makers, with no proper process, notice or public hearing— is not okay.

Who made statements against Asian American students, and what did they say?

They just want to play victim.

These are people who fundamentally believe....

....that an admissions process that admits 54% Asians and 20% Black and Latino students....

....is MORE racist than a process that admits 73% Asians and 3% Black and Latino students.

They believe themselves to be better, pure and simple. They genuinely believe that as a class of people, they work harder, care more about education, and just fundamentally are smarter to such a degree that they should have more Asian students in ONE ADMITTED CLASS than TJ has had Black students in its ENTIRE 35-year history.

That is called Asian supremacy.

The new system was designed for a more even spread, and it accomplished that goal. Nobody's disputing that it looks less racist on paper.

Still, that doesn't mean it's not racist. Imagine that you have a jar of cookies, and you set up a competition where everyone gets a certain fraction of the cookies based on how they perform. One particular kid is an outsider, so the other kids don't like them very much. They're confident in themselves, though, so after putting forth a remarkable effort, they manage to earn themselves a majority of the cookies. The other kids realize that the unpopular kid is winning the most, so they all say, "hey, let's just share the cookies evenly!" Technically fair, but at the same time totally not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course they can change admissions but the way they did it — secretively at first, statements against Asian American students my multiple decision makers, with no proper process, notice or public hearing— is not okay.

Who made statements against Asian American students, and what did they say?

They just want to play victim.

These are people who fundamentally believe....

....that an admissions process that admits 54% Asians and 20% Black and Latino students....

....is MORE racist than a process that admits 73% Asians and 3% Black and Latino students.

They believe themselves to be better, pure and simple. They genuinely believe that as a class of people, they work harder, care more about education, and just fundamentally are smarter to such a degree that they should have more Asian students in ONE ADMITTED CLASS than TJ has had Black students in its ENTIRE 35-year history.

That is called Asian supremacy.

The new system was designed for a more even spread, and it accomplished that goal. Nobody's disputing that it looks less racist on paper.

Still, that doesn't mean it's not racist. Imagine that you have a jar of cookies, and you set up a competition where everyone gets a certain fraction of the cookies based on how they perform. One particular kid is an outsider, so the other kids don't like them very much. They're confident in themselves, though, so after putting forth a remarkable effort, they manage to earn themselves a majority of the cookies. The other kids realize that the unpopular kid is winning the most, so they all say, "hey, let's just share the cookies evenly!" Technically fair, but at the same time totally not.

Your analogy only makes sense if you subscribe to the belief that Asians work harder and are therefore more deserving. Which is the literal definition of Asian supremacy in this case.

Unless you know the starting points of everyone else in the sample, you cannot use their current position to measure their level of effort.