student admissions and TJ lawsuit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?

I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.

If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.

Plenty of people are upset about that of all races.

The Asians aren’t doing that because if they did, that would put them up against white mommy and daddy. That’s the last thing they want us to do. As an earlier poster said, they want to assimilate.

It's more than that - given the relatively high % of Asians in elite colleges, they figure that their own children will benefit from legacy preferences. The reason that white and asian people hate affirmative action is because they do not benefit. They have no problem with preferential admissions policies as long as it helps them (and also don't help groups they deem undesirable).

This is important. There is an undercurrent at TJ of parents who have no future potential TJ applicants but who are displeased with the admissions changes because part of the appeal of TJ was that their students would not have to attend a school with Black kids and would therefore "be safe".

How shameless can you be? How do you sleep at night? Do you always project this hard onto others? You're exploiting one racial group that you've already damaged in order to attack a different racial group that you don't like. Using an accusation that has no basis in rational fact.

Don't pretend like we don't all know that the TJ changes happened at the behest of a rich White Savior who sends his own kids to private schools. Or that he literally used a fudge factor in his admissions number just to make sure there'd be fewer Asians.

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?

I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.

If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.

Plenty of people are upset about that of all races.

The Asians aren’t doing that because if they did, that would put them up against white mommy and daddy. That’s the last thing they want us to do. As an earlier poster said, they want to assimilate.

It's more than that - given the relatively high % of Asians in elite colleges, they figure that their own children will benefit from legacy preferences. The reason that white and asian people hate affirmative action is because they do not benefit. They have no problem with preferential admissions policies as long as it helps them (and also don't help groups they deem undesirable).

This is important. There is an undercurrent at TJ of parents who have no future potential TJ applicants but who are displeased with the admissions changes because part of the appeal of TJ was that their students would not have to attend a school with Black kids and would therefore "be safe".

How shameless can you be? How do you sleep at night? Do you always project this hard onto others? You're exploiting one racial group that you've already damaged in order to attack a different racial group that you don't like. Using an accusation that has no basis in rational fact.

Don't pretend like we don't all know that the TJ changes happened at the behest of a rich White Savior who sends his own kids to private schools. Or that he literally used a fudge factor in his admissions number just to make sure there'd be fewer Asians.

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Please, we all know that's a liberal lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Wasn't that already accomplished by the 1.5% per school quota? Did they also need to completely gut the application in a way that makes it impossible to distinguish between academic outliers and merely above average kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Wasn't that already accomplished by the 1.5% per school quota? Did they also need to completely gut the application in a way that makes it impossible to distinguish between academic outliers and merely above average kids?

There are quite a few kids who meet the criteria, especially from AAP center schools. There is a significant weight given to essays and science prompt, which essentially compares the writing skill rather than STEM knowledge. Grading of these is purely subjecting depending who ends of grading and they like a particular style of writing or not. At the end, the new admissions is essentially a 'lottery' among kids with relatively high GPA, which is especially true for AAP feeder schools such as carson, longfellow rocky run etc where only about 1 in 6 or 7 students get selected and most everyone of these kids have GPAs. It is not designed to test particular interest or knowledge in STEM expect for the assumption that those who apply for TJ automatically implies STEM focus in kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Wasn't that already accomplished by the 1.5% per school quota? Did they also need to completely gut the application in a way that makes it impossible to distinguish between academic outliers and merely above average kids?

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.

Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.

These points are frequently brought up that anyone can seek extra supplements if they actually valued education and were motivated to succeed.

The real difficulty we have in Fairfax is that our URM/high-poverty populations come from third-world countries like Central America, eastern Africa, and the Middle-East. They come and live here, but they aren't living in the same world as the assimilated population. We in Fairfax County are very different than, say, Wyoming, where both the rich and poor are mostly white and have similar cultural upbringing and values.

There doesn't even need to be gatekeeping because they aren't trying to get into the gate because they don't even know a gate exists. That's the unfortunate reality that FCPS wants to address.

Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,

Asians haven’t received the same type have racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Wasn't that already accomplished by the 1.5% per school quota? Did they also need to completely gut the application in a way that makes it impossible to distinguish between academic outliers and merely above average kids?

They did not need to gut it, but by doing so, they decreased the ability to distinguish between high ceiling applicants. I can only assume that they did so to ensure future TJ classes are less competitive as a whole, which means that kids who get in but who were not particular STEM standouts will have a less chance to fail once they are there. Reading between the lines, they are strategically covering their butt in case the diversity they engineered backfires later (with respect to more kids not being able to keep up, or going back to base school). Basically in their eyes TJ is too competitive and should be toned down a bit, and the simplest way to do that (other than a lottery) is to just remove stringent admission requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?

I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.

If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.

Plenty of people are upset about that of all races.

The Asians aren’t doing that because if they did, that would put them up against white mommy and daddy. That’s the last thing they want us to do. As an earlier poster said, they want to assimilate.

It's more than that - given the relatively high % of Asians in elite colleges, they figure that their own children will benefit from legacy preferences. The reason that white and asian people hate affirmative action is because they do not benefit. They have no problem with preferential admissions policies as long as it helps them (and also don't help groups they deem undesirable).

This is important. There is an undercurrent at TJ of parents who have no future potential TJ applicants but who are displeased with the admissions changes because part of the appeal of TJ was that their students would not have to attend a school with Black kids and would therefore "be safe".

How shameless can you be? How do you sleep at night? Do you always project this hard onto others? You're exploiting one racial group that you've already damaged in order to attack a different racial group that you don't like. Using an accusation that has no basis in rational fact.

Don't pretend like we don't all know that the TJ changes happened at the behest of a rich White Savior who sends his own kids to private schools. Or that he literally used a fudge factor in his admissions number just to make sure there'd be fewer Asians.

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Please, we all know that's a liberal lie.

Hold your own nuts.

[Anonymous]

Who is the rich white savior who sends kids to private school? Fairly certain SB's kids are FCPS grads

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Wasn't that already accomplished by the 1.5% per school quota? Did they also need to completely gut the application in a way that makes it impossible to distinguish between academic outliers and merely above average kids?

They did not need to gut it, but by doing so, they decreased the ability to distinguish between high ceiling applicants. I can only assume that they did so to ensure future TJ classes are less competitive as a whole, which means that kids who get in but who were not particular STEM standouts will have a less chance to fail once they are there. Reading between the lines, they are strategically covering their butt in case the diversity they engineered backfires later (with respect to more kids not being able to keep up, or going back to base school). Basically in their eyes TJ is too competitive and should be toned down a bit, and the simplest way to do that (other than a lottery) is to just remove stringent admission requirements.

you raise very good points, but SB is not that smart and they don't care at all what will happen to TJ down the road. There is no accountability. Their true motivation is personal -immediate political points, as was clearly evident in the TJ papers released as part of the lawsuit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Wasn't that already accomplished by the 1.5% per school quota? Did they also need to completely gut the application in a way that makes it impossible to distinguish between academic outliers and merely above average kids?

+100

So true. And no need for "experience factors."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Wasn't that already accomplished by the 1.5% per school quota? Did they also need to completely gut the application in a way that makes it impossible to distinguish between academic outliers and merely above average kids?

They did not need to gut it, but by doing so, they decreased the ability to distinguish between high ceiling applicants. I can only assume that they did so to ensure future TJ classes are less competitive as a whole, which means that kids who get in but who were not particular STEM standouts will have a less chance to fail once they are there. Reading between the lines, they are strategically covering their butt in case the diversity they engineered backfires later (with respect to more kids not being able to keep up, or going back to base school). Basically in their eyes TJ is too competitive and should be toned down a bit, and the simplest way to do that (other than a lottery) is to just remove stringent admission requirements.

you raise very good points, but SB is not that smart and they don't care at all what will happen to TJ down the road. There is no accountability. Their true motivation is personal -immediate political points, as was clearly evident in the TJ papers released as part of the lawsuit

The "TJ papers" just revealed the indolence and casual racism of FCPS School Board members.

They are all Democrats. They knew that the members representing the districts that were sending few kids to TJ were salivating at the opportunity to deliver some old-fashioned pork-barrel politics by making sure more kids from Lee, Mason, and Mount Vernon Districts are going to TJ. And that at least two of the at-large members (Keys Gamarra and Omeish) just want more URMs there.

So the rest basically went along for the ride, at times bemused by the antics of Brabrand and their fellow Board members, and at times willing to engage in easy anti-Asian and anti-White rhetoric because that's considered OK.

They paid little attention to the details and gave little thought to how the changes will be operationalized over the coming years. Some didn't really understand how the middle school set-asides were intended to work, or that they would effectively penalize kids attending AAP centers who, had they known FCPS's plans, might have opted to stay at their base middle schools.

Ultimately, they just want to have pictures in June 2025 of a TJ graduation ceremony with more Black and Hispanic faces they can plaster all over FCPS's web site before they run for their next office. It doesn't have much if anything to do with STEM education or selecting the most qualified students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That isn't accurate. The changes were done to give all students a fair chance not just those whose parents spend $10k on prep classes.

Wasn't that already accomplished by the 1.5% per school quota? Did they also need to completely gut the application in a way that makes it impossible to distinguish between academic outliers and merely above average kids?

They did not need to gut it, but by doing so, they decreased the ability to distinguish between high ceiling applicants. I can only assume that they did so to ensure future TJ classes are less competitive as a whole, which means that kids who get in but who were not particular STEM standouts will have a less chance to fail once they are there. Reading between the lines, they are strategically covering their butt in case the diversity they engineered backfires later (with respect to more kids not being able to keep up, or going back to base school). Basically in their eyes TJ is too competitive and should be toned down a bit, and the simplest way to do that (other than a lottery) is to just remove stringent admission requirements.

you raise very good points, but SB is not that smart and they don't care at all what will happen to TJ down the road. There is no accountability. Their true motivation is personal -immediate political points, as was clearly evident in the TJ papers released as part of the lawsuit

The "TJ papers" just revealed the indolence and casual racism of FCPS School Board members.

They are all Democrats. They knew that the members representing the districts that were sending few kids to TJ were salivating at the opportunity to deliver some old-fashioned pork-barrel politics by making sure more kids from Lee, Mason, and Mount Vernon Districts are going to TJ. And that at least two of the at-large members (Keys Gamarra and Omeish) just want more URMs there.

So the rest basically went along for the ride, at times bemused by the antics of Brabrand and their fellow Board members, and at times willing to engage in easy anti-Asian and anti-White rhetoric because that's considered OK.

They paid little attention to the details and gave little thought to how the changes will be operationalized over the coming years. Some didn't really understand how the middle school set-asides were intended to work, or that they would effectively penalize kids attending AAP centers who, had they known FCPS's plans, might have opted to stay at their base middle schools.

Ultimately, they just want to have pictures in June 2025 of a TJ graduation ceremony with more Black and Hispanic faces they can plaster all over FCPS's web site before they run for their next office. It doesn't have much if anything to do with STEM education or selecting the most qualified students.

And this right here is the saddest part. I wish we could hear from the teachers as to what is needed at TJ, and I hope they will be eventually be empowered to speak their mind without worrying about their jobs. They are likely the only group that discuss things unfiltered and without politics.

[Anonymous]

Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,

So you’re saying that children born to families that do not have the advantage of being able to put education above all else are just out of luck? Just too bad for you kids born to uneducated or lower income parents (who didn’t have any advantages when they grew up either)?

You’re willing to say that only children who win the lottery of being born to parents who prioritize education should have the opportunity to go to a school like TJ? Do you even hear how the the paragraph quoted above sounds?

[Anonymous]

What a bunch of nonsense. People who are argue that you should be admitted to TJ because you "meet the criteria" need to stop being so naive.

Just "meeting the criteria" is the MINIMUM. It does not mean that you deserve to be there.

Reminds me of the people who argued that women should be Navy Seals because they met the "minimum" of 50 pushups when in fact the average Navy Seal could do something like 200 pushups.

Meeting the bear minimum does not make you worthy.

This new class at TJ is a disaster. Many are struggling in basic math. Everyone at TJ - including all the teachers - know it.