Wall Street Journal on rampant growth in percentage of college students with “disabilities”

[Anonymous]

If psychologists tested the entire population of students who score at or above the 80th percentile rank on the SAT, the majority of the students would come out with at least one processing area that was lower than the others since most people have a profile of strengths and weaknesses. An articulate psychologist can then write that up justifying extra time.

If your Verbal IQ, Fluid Reasoning, and Visual Spatial ability are above the 80th percentile rank, you have
a higher chance of having lower processing speed (and it is 2 different 2 minute tests - so 4 minutes in total) due to regression toward the mean and the fact that processing speed does not correlate as strongly into overall intelligence. So someone could sneeze, be cautious, double check their work and their processing speed goes down- but that is good for extra time on the SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Oh, I'm sure you are "quite pleased."

Do you have a problem with the fact that a family successfully helped a struggling kid? Or do you consider this situation “gaming the system.? Because it seems that people get up in arms when these kids actually become successful. I mean, isn’t that the whole idea of giving accommodations?

NP

I have a problem with the fact that a family helped a struggling kid because they were wealthy and had the means to do so. Not every kid is afforded that help. It tips the scales to the side of socioeconomic class. As most things tend to do. I just don't think it's right.

Other things that are not right, because they tip the scale to the high SES, especially since extracurriculars are important to schools like Pomona:

Buying into a good school district

Sending your kids to private school

Paying for SAT tutoring

Paying for any academic tutoring

Paying to have your child join any extracurricular activity. The FLL fee was $200 this year. Debate? Probably $400, including tournament fees and coaching. Marching band. Don’t even get me started.

Renting or buying instruments and paying for private music lessons

Paying for travel sports and private athletic lessons

Having a SAHM who makes breakfast, and runs kids to extracurriculars, to volunteers in the school, to give her kids the best chance

Sending your kid overseas on educational travel or service missions.

Etc, etc. etc.

Plus, of course, taking you kid to the doctor when they are sick, and getting them good medical care (because ADHD is a medical disagnosis).

A family struggling with two working parents certainly cannot afford to do these things. And even if the could, they can’t drive them to and from, because they are likely working 3 jobs between 2 parents.

I agree with you that life gives more opportunities to people with money. Which is why I volunteer in my kids activities and always donate to the Band Boosters fund for kids who cannot afford fares, and SHARE to help underprivileged girls afford scouting and attend camp and attend camp, and the FLL fund to buy equipment to Title I school teams. I donate extensively to programs that support underprivileged kids through the CFC. I strong “encourage” obe kid to participate in a program that readers with 2nd and 3rd graders in a Title 1 school and another to work with TJ STEM by helping free teach TJ test prep classes and mentoring a high talent FARMS kid through the admissions process.

And of course, I vote for politicians who want to expand healthcare to everyone, and better fund our schools, and certainly not cut SNAP and WIC and Section 8. I think less affluent kids should get as many opportunities as mine do. And IDEA should be strengthened to make it easier for parents to access free educational testing at school, to train teachers to recognize it, and require schools to offer it if they suspect an LD— not just provide it if parents ask.

But don’t you dare tell me I have an obligation not to diagnose and treat my kids ADHD— to watch my child struggle in school, be miserable, have terrible grades, and be at significant risk for not graduating from HS, forget college, develop substance abuse issues from self medication, and be at a very high risk for anxiety and depression, because not every can afford to properly teach ADHD. It is a crime that they can’t. But I will not sacrifice my kid to prove some point.

When you move to Mount Vernon or Lee, and only provide the supports— time and money— that a FARMS family can provide— including Healthcare, because ADHD is a DSM diagnosis, and covered by insurance as mental health impairment, then you can tell people not to help their kid treat a medical condition, because “unfair to the poors”.

Until then F*ck off.

Testy, aren’t we?

My kid would benefit from accommodations but we don’t take them. In our family it is far more valuable to teach our kids to make the best of what they have and find a way to make it work - not to not expect the world to offer them accommodations when they aren’t as good at something as someone else.

To each his own.

You might feel differently if they had more serious issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If psychologists tested the entire population of students who score at or above the 80th percentile rank on the SAT, the majority of the students would come out with at least one processing area that was lower than the others since most people have a profile of strengths and weaknesses. An articulate psychologist can then write that up justifying extra time.

If your Verbal IQ, Fluid Reasoning, and Visual Spatial ability are above the 80th percentile rank, you have
a higher chance of having lower processing speed (and it is 2 different 2 minute tests - so 4 minutes in total) due to regression toward the mean and the fact that processing speed does not correlate as strongly into overall intelligence. So someone could sneeze, be cautious, double check their work and their processing speed goes down- but that is good for extra time on the SAT.

Stop it! Logic and reason are no match for the ferocious tiger mom's who will spare no expense (literally) to make sure your kid has less time to demonstrate his abilities on standardized tests than their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Oh, I'm sure you are "quite pleased."

Do you have a problem with the fact that a family successfully helped a struggling kid? Or do you consider this situation “gaming the system.? Because it seems that people get up in arms when these kids actually become successful. I mean, isn’t that the whole idea of giving accommodations?

NP

I have a problem with the fact that a family helped a struggling kid because they were wealthy and had the means to do so. Not every kid is afforded that help. It tips the scales to the side of socioeconomic class. As most things tend to do. I just don't think it's right.

Other things that are not right, because they tip the scale to the high SES, especially since extracurriculars are important to schools like Pomona:

Buying into a good school district

Sending your kids to private school

Paying for SAT tutoring

Paying for any academic tutoring

Paying to have your child join any extracurricular activity. The FLL fee was $200 this year. Debate? Probably $400, including tournament fees and coaching. Marching band. Don’t even get me started.

Renting or buying instruments and paying for private music lessons

Paying for travel sports and private athletic lessons

Having a SAHM who makes breakfast, and runs kids to extracurriculars, to volunteers in the school, to give her kids the best chance

Sending your kid overseas on educational travel or service missions.

Etc, etc. etc.

Plus, of course, taking you kid to the doctor when they are sick, and getting them good medical care (because ADHD is a medical disagnosis).

A family struggling with two working parents certainly cannot afford to do these things. And even if the could, they can’t drive them to and from, because they are likely working 3 jobs between 2 parents.

I agree with you that life gives more opportunities to people with money. Which is why I volunteer in my kids activities and always donate to the Band Boosters fund for kids who cannot afford fares, and SHARE to help underprivileged girls afford scouting and attend camp and attend camp, and the FLL fund to buy equipment to Title I school teams. I donate extensively to programs that support underprivileged kids through the CFC. I strong “encourage” obe kid to participate in a program that readers with 2nd and 3rd graders in a Title 1 school and another to work with TJ STEM by helping free teach TJ test prep classes and mentoring a high talent FARMS kid through the admissions process.

And of course, I vote for politicians who want to expand healthcare to everyone, and better fund our schools, and certainly not cut SNAP and WIC and Section 8. I think less affluent kids should get as many opportunities as mine do. And IDEA should be strengthened to make it easier for parents to access free educational testing at school, to train teachers to recognize it, and require schools to offer it if they suspect an LD— not just provide it if parents ask.

But don’t you dare tell me I have an obligation not to diagnose and treat my kids ADHD— to watch my child struggle in school, be miserable, have terrible grades, and be at significant risk for not graduating from HS, forget college, develop substance abuse issues from self medication, and be at a very high risk for anxiety and depression, because not every can afford to properly teach ADHD. It is a crime that they can’t. But I will not sacrifice my kid to prove some point.

When you move to Mount Vernon or Lee, and only provide the supports— time and money— that a FARMS family can provide— including Healthcare, because ADHD is a DSM diagnosis, and covered by insurance as mental health impairment, then you can tell people not to help their kid treat a medical condition, because “unfair to the poors”.

Until then F*ck off.

Testy, aren’t we?

My kid would benefit from accommodations but we don’t take them. In our family it is far more valuable to teach our kids to make the best of what they have and find a way to make it work - not to not expect the world to offer them accommodations when they aren’t as good at something as someone else.

To each his own.

You might feel differently if they had more serious issues.

I’ll give you that. But How many kids with accommodations have serious issues? That is the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If psychologists tested the entire population of students who score at or above the 80th percentile rank on the SAT, the majority of the students would come out with at least one processing area that was lower than the others since most people have a profile of strengths and weaknesses. An articulate psychologist can then write that up justifying extra time.

If your Verbal IQ, Fluid Reasoning, and Visual Spatial ability are above the 80th percentile rank, you have
a higher chance of having lower processing speed (and it is 2 different 2 minute tests - so 4 minutes in total) due to regression toward the mean and the fact that processing speed does not correlate as strongly into overall intelligence. So someone could sneeze, be cautious, double check their work and their processing speed goes down- but that is good for extra time on the SAT.

I think I mentioned this earlier on this thread, but slow processing on its own does not get considered for accommodations on the SAT or ACT. There must be some other condition present such as ADHD or dyslexia. Just because a kid tests and exhibits below average processing does not mean he will be granted extended time. Slow processing speed is one possible symptom of a condition, but slow processing on its own is not a diagnosis that will get your kid extra time on a test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If psychologists tested the entire population of students who score at or above the 80th percentile rank on the SAT, the majority of the students would come out with at least one processing area that was lower than the others since most people have a profile of strengths and weaknesses. An articulate psychologist can then write that up justifying extra time.

If your Verbal IQ, Fluid Reasoning, and Visual Spatial ability are above the 80th percentile rank, you have
a higher chance of having lower processing speed (and it is 2 different 2 minute tests - so 4 minutes in total) due to regression toward the mean and the fact that processing speed does not correlate as strongly into overall intelligence. So someone could sneeze, be cautious, double check their work and their processing speed goes down- but that is good for extra time on the SAT.

I think I mentioned this earlier on this thread, but slow processing on its own does not get considered for accommodations on the SAT or ACT. There must be some other condition present such as ADHD or dyslexia. Just because a kid tests and exhibits below average processing does not mean he will be granted extended time. Slow processing speed is one possible symptom of a condition, but slow processing on its own is not a diagnosis that will get your kid extra time on a test.

That is why people pay the 3 to 5,000 dollars for a complete evaluation where they administer 40 to 50 subtests of various cognitive assessments. Most kids are going to score low in an area. Then have a parent rate their child as inattentive- seriously the criteria for ADHD is so vague - it is 6 characteristics such as:
1) often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli (what kid with a smart phone isn't easily distracted by constant texts - I am as an adult)
2 often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly ( I tell my kids 100 times to pick up their shoes, clothes, brush their teeth, turn off the tv, etc.)
3) Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort -e.g., schoolwork or homework ( my kids dislike homework and are reluctant to independently come home and begin homework.

You can diagnosis shop if you have the money. This is why
The College Board received (and approved 85 percent of) around 80,000 accommodation requests in 2010-11 and 160,000 requests in 2015-16!
So in five years the number doubled!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Oh, I'm sure you are "quite pleased."

Do you have a problem with the fact that a family successfully helped a struggling kid? Or do you consider this situation “gaming the system.? Because it seems that people get up in arms when these kids actually become successful. I mean, isn’t that the whole idea of giving accommodations?

NP

I have a problem with the fact that a family helped a struggling kid because they were wealthy and had the means to do so. Not every kid is afforded that help. It tips the scales to the side of socioeconomic class. As most things tend to do. I just don't think it's right.

Other things that are not right, because they tip the scale to the high SES, especially since extracurriculars are important to schools like Pomona:

Buying into a good school district

Sending your kids to private school

Paying for SAT tutoring

Paying for any academic tutoring

Paying to have your child join any extracurricular activity. The FLL fee was $200 this year. Debate? Probably $400, including tournament fees and coaching. Marching band. Don’t even get me started.

Renting or buying instruments and paying for private music lessons

Paying for travel sports and private athletic lessons

Having a SAHM who makes breakfast, and runs kids to extracurriculars, to volunteers in the school, to give her kids the best chance

Sending your kid overseas on educational travel or service missions.

Etc, etc. etc.

Plus, of course, taking you kid to the doctor when they are sick, and getting them good medical care (because ADHD is a medical disagnosis).

A family struggling with two working parents certainly cannot afford to do these things. And even if the could, they can’t drive them to and from, because they are likely working 3 jobs between 2 parents.

I agree with you that life gives more opportunities to people with money. Which is why I volunteer in my kids activities and always donate to the Band Boosters fund for kids who cannot afford fares, and SHARE to help underprivileged girls afford scouting and attend camp and attend camp, and the FLL fund to buy equipment to Title I school teams. I donate extensively to programs that support underprivileged kids through the CFC. I strong “encourage” obe kid to participate in a program that readers with 2nd and 3rd graders in a Title 1 school and another to work with TJ STEM by helping free teach TJ test prep classes and mentoring a high talent FARMS kid through the admissions process.

And of course, I vote for politicians who want to expand healthcare to everyone, and better fund our schools, and certainly not cut SNAP and WIC and Section 8. I think less affluent kids should get as many opportunities as mine do. And IDEA should be strengthened to make it easier for parents to access free educational testing at school, to train teachers to recognize it, and require schools to offer it if they suspect an LD— not just provide it if parents ask.

But don’t you dare tell me I have an obligation not to diagnose and treat my kids ADHD— to watch my child struggle in school, be miserable, have terrible grades, and be at significant risk for not graduating from HS, forget college, develop substance abuse issues from self medication, and be at a very high risk for anxiety and depression, because not every can afford to properly teach ADHD. It is a crime that they can’t. But I will not sacrifice my kid to prove some point.

When you move to Mount Vernon or Lee, and only provide the supports— time and money— that a FARMS family can provide— including Healthcare, because ADHD is a DSM diagnosis, and covered by insurance as mental health impairment, then you can tell people not to help their kid treat a medical condition, because “unfair to the poors”.

Until then F*ck off.

Testy, aren’t we?

My kid would benefit from accommodations but we don’t take them. In our family it is far more valuable to teach our kids to make the best of what they have and find a way to make it work - not to not expect the world to offer them accommodations when they aren’t as good at something as someone else.

To each his own.

You might feel differently if they had more serious issues.

I’ll give you that. But How many kids with accommodations have serious issues? That is the question.

Mine does and this whole thread is quite disconcerting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If psychologists tested the entire population of students who score at or above the 80th percentile rank on the SAT, the majority of the students would come out with at least one processing area that was lower than the others since most people have a profile of strengths and weaknesses. An articulate psychologist can then write that up justifying extra time.

If your Verbal IQ, Fluid Reasoning, and Visual Spatial ability are above the 80th percentile rank, you have
a higher chance of having lower processing speed (and it is 2 different 2 minute tests - so 4 minutes in total) due to regression toward the mean and the fact that processing speed does not correlate as strongly into overall intelligence. So someone could sneeze, be cautious, double check their work and their processing speed goes down- but that is good for extra time on the SAT.

I think I mentioned this earlier on this thread, but slow processing on its own does not get considered for accommodations on the SAT or ACT. There must be some other condition present such as ADHD or dyslexia. Just because a kid tests and exhibits below average processing does not mean he will be granted extended time. Slow processing speed is one possible symptom of a condition, but slow processing on its own is not a diagnosis that will get your kid extra time on a test.

That is why people pay the 3 to 5,000 dollars for a complete evaluation where they administer 40 to 50 subtests of various cognitive assessments. Most kids are going to score low in an area. Then have a parent rate their child as inattentive- seriously the criteria for ADHD is so vague - it is 6 characteristics such as:
1) often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli (what kid with a smart phone isn't easily distracted by constant texts - I am as an adult)
2 often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly ( I tell my kids 100 times to pick up their shoes, clothes, brush their teeth, turn off the tv, etc.)
3) Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort -e.g., schoolwork or homework ( my kids dislike homework and are reluctant to independently come home and begin homework.

You can diagnosis shop if you have the money. This is why
The College Board received (and approved 85 percent of) around 80,000 accommodation requests in 2010-11 and 160,000 requests in 2015-16!
So in five years the number doubled!

That is out of ~1.36 million test takers.

[Anonymous]

My kid would benefit from accommodations but we don’t take them. In our family it is far more valuable to teach our kids to make the best of what they have and find a way to make it work - not to not expect the world to offer them accommodations when they aren’t as good at something as someone else. [\quote]

I grew up like this too. But, long-term, there are real downsides. If something small and/or seemingly arbitrary gets in the way of you doing your best work, it makes sense to explain and ask for what you need. Be willing to take “no” for an answer and have a Plan B, but, oftentimes, the constraint will move. “Ask for help when you need it” is good advice — especially for kids going off to college. The flip side is be willing to provide help when you can. Not all of life is a competition — lots of it’s a collaboration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If psychologists tested the entire population of students who score at or above the 80th percentile rank on the SAT, the majority of the students would come out with at least one processing area that was lower than the others since most people have a profile of strengths and weaknesses. An articulate psychologist can then write that up justifying extra time.

If your Verbal IQ, Fluid Reasoning, and Visual Spatial ability are above the 80th percentile rank, you have
a higher chance of having lower processing speed (and it is 2 different 2 minute tests - so 4 minutes in total) due to regression toward the mean and the fact that processing speed does not correlate as strongly into overall intelligence. So someone could sneeze, be cautious, double check their work and their processing speed goes down- but that is good for extra time on the SAT.

I think I mentioned this earlier on this thread, but slow processing on its own does not get considered for accommodations on the SAT or ACT. There must be some other condition present such as ADHD or dyslexia. Just because a kid tests and exhibits below average processing does not mean he will be granted extended time. Slow processing speed is one possible symptom of a condition, but slow processing on its own is not a diagnosis that will get your kid extra time on a test.

That is why people pay the 3 to 5,000 dollars for a complete evaluation where they administer 40 to 50 subtests of various cognitive assessments. Most kids are going to score low in an area. Then have a parent rate their child as inattentive- seriously the criteria for ADHD is so vague - it is 6 characteristics such as:
1) often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli (what kid with a smart phone isn't easily distracted by constant texts - I am as an adult)
2 often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly ( I tell my kids 100 times to pick up their shoes, clothes, brush their teeth, turn off the tv, etc.)
3) Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort -e.g., schoolwork or homework ( my kids dislike homework and are reluctant to independently come home and begin homework.

You can diagnosis shop if you have the money. This is why
The College Board received (and approved 85 percent of) around 80,000 accommodation requests in 2010-11 and 160,000 requests in 2015-16!
So in five years the number doubled!

Parent assessment alone is not used to diagnose ADHD. A lot of weight is put on teachers' assessments and the doctor's observations during testing. And as a parent, if you are that desperate to get your kid a leg up that you would fake an ADHD diagnosis, that is extremely low. There are horrible people out there, but just because some game the system doesn't mean the benefits should be taken away from those who truly need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If psychologists tested the entire population of students who score at or above the 80th percentile rank on the SAT, the majority of the students would come out with at least one processing area that was lower than the others since most people have a profile of strengths and weaknesses. An articulate psychologist can then write that up justifying extra time.

If your Verbal IQ, Fluid Reasoning, and Visual Spatial ability are above the 80th percentile rank, you have
a higher chance of having lower processing speed (and it is 2 different 2 minute tests - so 4 minutes in total) due to regression toward the mean and the fact that processing speed does not correlate as strongly into overall intelligence. So someone could sneeze, be cautious, double check their work and their processing speed goes down- but that is good for extra time on the SAT.

I think I mentioned this earlier on this thread, but slow processing on its own does not get considered for accommodations on the SAT or ACT. There must be some other condition present such as ADHD or dyslexia. Just because a kid tests and exhibits below average processing does not mean he will be granted extended time. Slow processing speed is one possible symptom of a condition, but slow processing on its own is not a diagnosis that will get your kid extra time on a test.

That is why people pay the 3 to 5,000 dollars for a complete evaluation where they administer 40 to 50 subtests of various cognitive assessments. Most kids are going to score low in an area. Then have a parent rate their child as inattentive- seriously the criteria for ADHD is so vague - it is 6 characteristics such as:
1) often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli (what kid with a smart phone isn't easily distracted by constant texts - I am as an adult)
2 often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly ( I tell my kids 100 times to pick up their shoes, clothes, brush their teeth, turn off the tv, etc.)
3) Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort -e.g., schoolwork or homework ( my kids dislike homework and are reluctant to independently come home and begin homework.

You can diagnosis shop if you have the money. This is why
The College Board received (and approved 85 percent of) around 80,000 accommodation requests in 2010-11 and 160,000 requests in 2015-16!
So in five years the number doubled!

Parent assessment alone is not used to diagnose ADHD. A lot of weight is put on teachers' assessments and the doctor's observations during testing. And as a parent, if you are that desperate to get your kid a leg up that you would fake an ADHD diagnosis, that is extremely low. There are horrible people out there, but just because some game the system doesn't mean the benefits should be taken away from those who truly need it.

You really need a TOVA or an IVA in addition to observed behaviors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Arg I am sorry I just get so frustrated with these types of posts.

These are curved, competitive tests.
Literally every human on earth has some sort of cognitive limitation -- some area in which they are not quite as advanced as they could be.
Virtually all human beings on earth would benefit from extra time on timed tests to demonstrate their ability.
That is precisely why they are timed.

It is like stating that your kid is a great runner he just has trouble with hurdles, so all the hurdles should be removed. Then when his hurdles are all removed but all the other kids are still jumping over hurdles, he will appear to be a faster runner than them. He is not. They are just still jumping over hurdles that have been removed for your snowflake.

We may as well just make the tests untimed for everyone. Then at least we can compare apples to apples.

Ultimately this is of limited benefit except as a means for wealthy people to game the system, which they will ALWAYS do but even moreso when quantitive, objective criteria are purposefully watered down and distorted.

At the end of the day life is an IQ test so good luck getting extra time at your job.

This this this this this.

I'm sorry that you don't believe your kids can compete against kids with disabilities if those kids get accommodations for their disabilities. If your child is such a poor reader that the kid with dyslexia can run laps around him because of extra time, perhaps you should get your child evaluated?

It's really easy to think you're superior when you're ignoring all the disadvantages other people have to deal with. It's harder to think you're superior when we try to level the playing field. It's tough, but I have ever confidence that given time you'll be able to cope with your disappointment at not being as amazing as you thought you were when you were playing with a stacked deck.

This this this this this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If psychologists tested the entire population of students who score at or above the 80th percentile rank on the SAT, the majority of the students would come out with at least one processing area that was lower than the others since most people have a profile of strengths and weaknesses. An articulate psychologist can then write that up justifying extra time.

If your Verbal IQ, Fluid Reasoning, and Visual Spatial ability are above the 80th percentile rank, you have
a higher chance of having lower processing speed (and it is 2 different 2 minute tests - so 4 minutes in total) due to regression toward the mean and the fact that processing speed does not correlate as strongly into overall intelligence. So someone could sneeze, be cautious, double check their work and their processing speed goes down- but that is good for extra time on the SAT.

I think I mentioned this earlier on this thread, but slow processing on its own does not get considered for accommodations on the SAT or ACT. There must be some other condition present such as ADHD or dyslexia. Just because a kid tests and exhibits below average processing does not mean he will be granted extended time. Slow processing speed is one possible symptom of a condition, but slow processing on its own is not a diagnosis that will get your kid extra time on a test.

That is why people pay the 3 to 5,000 dollars for a complete evaluation where they administer 40 to 50 subtests of various cognitive assessments. Most kids are going to score low in an area. Then have a parent rate their child as inattentive- seriously the criteria for ADHD is so vague - it is 6 characteristics such as:
1) often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli (what kid with a smart phone isn't easily distracted by constant texts - I am as an adult)
2 often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly ( I tell my kids 100 times to pick up their shoes, clothes, brush their teeth, turn off the tv, etc.)
3) Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort -e.g., schoolwork or homework ( my kids dislike homework and are reluctant to independently come home and begin homework.

You can diagnosis shop if you have the money. This is why
The College Board received (and approved 85 percent of) around 80,000 accommodation requests in 2010-11 and 160,000 requests in 2015-16!
So in five years the number doubled!

Parent assessment alone is not used to diagnose ADHD. A lot of weight is put on teachers' assessments and the doctor's observations during testing. And as a parent, if you are that desperate to get your kid a leg up that you would fake an ADHD diagnosis, that is extremely low. There are horrible people out there, but just because some game the system doesn't mean the benefits should be taken away from those who truly need it.

And yet NO poor kids are getting this benefit. These are all rich, privileged, mostly white kids getting these benefits for their kids. Remember that when you knock ‘affirmative action’ programs in college with this same passionate vitriol. Your kids are receiving all sorts of benefits and entitlements that you aren’t acknowledging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If psychologists tested the entire population of students who score at or above the 80th percentile rank on the SAT, the majority of the students would come out with at least one processing area that was lower than the others since most people have a profile of strengths and weaknesses. An articulate psychologist can then write that up justifying extra time.

If your Verbal IQ, Fluid Reasoning, and Visual Spatial ability are above the 80th percentile rank, you have
a higher chance of having lower processing speed (and it is 2 different 2 minute tests - so 4 minutes in total) due to regression toward the mean and the fact that processing speed does not correlate as strongly into overall intelligence. So someone could sneeze, be cautious, double check their work and their processing speed goes down- but that is good for extra time on the SAT.

Having more than 2 standard deviations between strengths and weaknesses on the WISC is unusual. Having more than 3 standard deviations is very rare. This is what people are talking about when they say "lower processing speed".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If psychologists tested the entire population of students who score at or above the 80th percentile rank on the SAT, the majority of the students would come out with at least one processing area that was lower than the others since most people have a profile of strengths and weaknesses. An articulate psychologist can then write that up justifying extra time.

If your Verbal IQ, Fluid Reasoning, and Visual Spatial ability are above the 80th percentile rank, you have
a higher chance of having lower processing speed (and it is 2 different 2 minute tests - so 4 minutes in total) due to regression toward the mean and the fact that processing speed does not correlate as strongly into overall intelligence. So someone could sneeze, be cautious, double check their work and their processing speed goes down- but that is good for extra time on the SAT.

I think I mentioned this earlier on this thread, but slow processing on its own does not get considered for accommodations on the SAT or ACT. There must be some other condition present such as ADHD or dyslexia. Just because a kid tests and exhibits below average processing does not mean he will be granted extended time. Slow processing speed is one possible symptom of a condition, but slow processing on its own is not a diagnosis that will get your kid extra time on a test.

That is why people pay the 3 to 5,000 dollars for a complete evaluation where they administer 40 to 50 subtests of various cognitive assessments. Most kids are going to score low in an area. Then have a parent rate their child as inattentive- seriously the criteria for ADHD is so vague - it is 6 characteristics such as:
1) often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli (what kid with a smart phone isn't easily distracted by constant texts - I am as an adult)
2 often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly ( I tell my kids 100 times to pick up their shoes, clothes, brush their teeth, turn off the tv, etc.)
3) Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort -e.g., schoolwork or homework ( my kids dislike homework and are reluctant to independently come home and begin homework.

You can diagnosis shop if you have the money. This is why
The College Board received (and approved 85 percent of) around 80,000 accommodation requests in 2010-11 and 160,000 requests in 2015-16!
So in five years the number doubled!

Parent assessment alone is not used to diagnose ADHD. A lot of weight is put on teachers' assessments and the doctor's observations during testing. And as a parent, if you are that desperate to get your kid a leg up that you would fake an ADHD diagnosis, that is extremely low. There are horrible people out there, but just because some game the system doesn't mean the benefits should be taken away from those who truly need it.

And yet NO poor kids are getting this benefit. These are all rich, privileged, mostly white kids getting these benefits for their kids. Remember that when you knock ‘affirmative action’ programs in college with this same passionate vitriol. Your kids are receiving all sorts of benefits and entitlements that you aren’t acknowledging.

What are you talking about? Of course poor kids can be diagnosed with ADHD, ASD, Learning Disabilities, etc. and receive IEPs or 504s.

If you can't afford $3k-$5k out of pocket, you just go to CNMC or KKI and receive a similar comprehensive evaluation from a trained neuropsychologist. The only real reason to go with a private practice over CNMC or KKI is for convenience and to save time.