Wall Street Journal on rampant growth in percentage of college students with “disabilities”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Arg I am sorry I just get so frustrated with these types of posts.

These are curved, competitive tests.
Literally every human on earth has some sort of cognitive limitation -- some area in which they are not quite as advanced as they could be.
Virtually all human beings on earth would benefit from extra time on timed tests to demonstrate their ability.
That is precisely why they are timed.

It is like stating that your kid is a great runner he just has trouble with hurdles, so all the hurdles should be removed. Then when his hurdles are all removed but all the other kids are still jumping over hurdles, he will appear to be a faster runner than them. He is not. They are just still jumping over hurdles that have been removed for your snowflake.

We may as well just make the tests untimed for everyone. Then at least we can compare apples to apples.

Ultimately this is of limited benefit except as a means for wealthy people to game the system, which they will ALWAYS do but even moreso when quantitive, objective criteria are purposefully watered down and distorted.

At the end of the day life is an IQ test so good luck getting extra time at your job.

This this this this this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

That's not what this conversation is about, actually. It's precisely the fact that these schools are SO selective that makes it incredibly hard to believe that suddenly 1/4 of the students have disabling conditions necessitating academic accommodations. That makes a mockery out of actual disabilities.

As a side note, I do think it's untenable to offer accommodations like extra time and calculators to some kids, and not to other kids.

Kids can be 2e (aka twice exceptional) — i.e. gifted and dealing with an LD. Wouldn’t surprise me if (a) 2e kids often have interesting and thoughtful stories to tell (b) 2e kids may themselves prefer (and/or have parents who strongly prefer) learning environments that are smaller scale and where teachers routinely engage with and get to know most of their students (c) parents and 2e kids, especially those who are attending college far from home, want a school that has experience, resources, and a good reputation for dealing with LDs. Also, Pomona has a class size of about 420 kids. And it’s an expensive school with predominantly affluent students. So, yeah, it doesn’t blow my mind that 22% of the students who enroll there have a documented LD. It might well be the most LD-friendly elite college in the US.

No. 20% of Pomona admits have not suddenly become 2e.

Correct, most have no doubt been 2e all along. But suddenly (or perhaps gradually) Pomona looked like a simultaneously elite and supportive environment.

No, you're not "2e all along" if you manage to get through elementary, middle, and high school without an IEP. That's not how "2e" works. 2e does not mean "smart but quirky" or "smart but makes careless errors." It means - you have a disability that requires special education to access the curriculum. Perhaps you want to drastically downgrade the definition of disability - but at least be upfront about that. Nobody is 2e and gaining admission to Pomona without a history of significant supports already.

Oh bullshit. There are lots of 2e kids who fly under the radar because they are relatively high-performing and/or they may have an LD that impacts one aspect of their academic performance while they excel in some other discipline.

That's my dyslexic sibling. Only graduated from HS because of some very understanding teachers, and graduated with a horrible GPA. But he's brilliant at math and got great offers to several elite universities because of it.

Back then, it was only the truly lucky who managed it. My sibling wasn't officially diagnosed until his child was, and he realized there was more to it than just him being a terrible reader. Fortunately he has a genuine mathematical talent that compensated and was recognized. There are many people with dyslexia who don't have a genius level skill in another area, and if their dyslexia weren't diagnosed and treated and they weren't given accommodations, they would look like the village idiot on paper. Fortunately we're at a place where we recognize disabilities, better and better each year. We offer support and accommodations. Obviously that really frustrates some people, no matter how often they're told that getting accommodations doesn't make having a learning disability like dyslexia worth it.

That's great, but that does not describe 20-30% of kids enrolled at elite DC privates.

But could very well describe some of the students at Pomona, and there could very well be some of these kids in elite primary & secondary privates. You obviously can't grasp the idea that there are people with disabilities like dyslexia that they can manage, given supports. Because apparently you think it's entirely fair that they deal with dyslexia, but not fair that they get extra time on an exam because of the dyslexia.

[Anonymous]

Really? At the end of the day, most jobs don’t require a high IQ and (unlike in HS) people aren't expected to do everything. They end up in jobs that play to their strengths or at least don’t penalize their weaknesses. And while many required tasks have deadlines but aren't timed, so you put in the time it takes you to complete the assignment proficiently. Triage/workload management matter more than speed. No one knows/cares how much time you spent if it’s done when it’s supposed to be. And lots of deadlines slip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Arg I am sorry I just get so frustrated with these types of posts.

These are curved, competitive tests.
Literally every human on earth has some sort of cognitive limitation -- some area in which they are not quite as advanced as they could be.
Virtually all human beings on earth would benefit from extra time on timed tests to demonstrate their ability.
That is precisely why they are timed.

It is like stating that your kid is a great runner he just has trouble with hurdles, so all the hurdles should be removed. Then when his hurdles are all removed but all the other kids are still jumping over hurdles, he will appear to be a faster runner than them. He is not. They are just still jumping over hurdles that have been removed for your snowflake.

We may as well just make the tests untimed for everyone. Then at least we can compare apples to apples.

Ultimately this is of limited benefit except as a means for wealthy people to game the system, which they will ALWAYS do but even moreso when quantitive, objective criteria are purposefully watered down and distorted.

At the end of the day life is an IQ test so good luck getting extra time at your job.

This this this this this.

I'm sorry that you don't believe your kids can compete against kids with disabilities if those kids get accommodations for their disabilities. If your child is such a poor reader that the kid with dyslexia can run laps around him because of extra time, perhaps you should get your child evaluated?

It's really easy to think you're superior when you're ignoring all the disadvantages other people have to deal with. It's harder to think you're superior when we try to level the playing field. It's tough, but I have ever confidence that given time you'll be able to cope with your disappointment at not being as amazing as you thought you were when you were playing with a stacked deck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Arg I am sorry I just get so frustrated with these types of posts.

These are curved, competitive tests.
Literally every human on earth has some sort of cognitive limitation -- some area in which they are not quite as advanced as they could be.
Virtually all human beings on earth would benefit from extra time on timed tests to demonstrate their ability.
That is precisely why they are timed.

It is like stating that your kid is a great runner he just has trouble with hurdles, so all the hurdles should be removed. Then when his hurdles are all removed but all the other kids are still jumping over hurdles, he will appear to be a faster runner than them. He is not. They are just still jumping over hurdles that have been removed for your snowflake.

We may as well just make the tests untimed for everyone. Then at least we can compare apples to apples.

Ultimately this is of limited benefit except as a means for wealthy people to game the system, which they will ALWAYS do but even moreso when quantitive, objective criteria are purposefully watered down and distorted.

At the end of the day life is an IQ test so good luck getting extra time at your job.

This this this this this.

I'm sorry that you don't believe your kids can compete against kids with disabilities if those kids get accommodations for their disabilities. If your child is such a poor reader that the kid with dyslexia can run laps around him because of extra time, perhaps you should get your child evaluated?

It's really easy to think you're superior when you're ignoring all the disadvantages other people have to deal with. It's harder to think you're superior when we try to level the playing field. It's tough, but I have ever confidence that given time you'll be able to cope with your disappointment at not being as amazing as you thought you were when you were playing with a stacked deck.

This is illogical thinking masked by an ad hominem. Of course having a cognitive impairment is a disadvantage. Of course removing the added difficulty of a timed condition makes a test easier.

Literally everyone on earth has some sort of cognitive impairment. Ergo, everyone on earth needs to have the same untimed conditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

That's not what this conversation is about, actually. It's precisely the fact that these schools are SO selective that makes it incredibly hard to believe that suddenly 1/4 of the students have disabling conditions necessitating academic accommodations. That makes a mockery out of actual disabilities.

As a side note, I do think it's untenable to offer accommodations like extra time and calculators to some kids, and not to other kids.

Kids can be 2e (aka twice exceptional) — i.e. gifted and dealing with an LD. Wouldn’t surprise me if (a) 2e kids often have interesting and thoughtful stories to tell (b) 2e kids may themselves prefer (and/or have parents who strongly prefer) learning environments that are smaller scale and where teachers routinely engage with and get to know most of their students (c) parents and 2e kids, especially those who are attending college far from home, want a school that has experience, resources, and a good reputation for dealing with LDs. Also, Pomona has a class size of about 420 kids. And it’s an expensive school with predominantly affluent students. So, yeah, it doesn’t blow my mind that 22% of the students who enroll there have a documented LD. It might well be the most LD-friendly elite college in the US.

No. 20% of Pomona admits have not suddenly become 2e.

Correct, most have no doubt been 2e all along. But suddenly (or perhaps gradually) Pomona looked like a simultaneously elite and supportive environment.

No, you're not "2e all along" if you manage to get through elementary, middle, and high school without an IEP. That's not how "2e" works. 2e does not mean "smart but quirky" or "smart but makes careless errors." It means - you have a disability that requires special education to access the curriculum. Perhaps you want to drastically downgrade the definition of disability - but at least be upfront about that. Nobody is 2e and gaining admission to Pomona without a history of significant supports already.

Oh bullshit. There are lots of 2e kids who fly under the radar because they are relatively high-performing and/or they may have an LD that impacts one aspect of their academic performance while they excel in some other discipline.

THOSE KIDS ARE NOT DISABLED. Period. If your "disability" does not stop you from being "high performing" without accommodations, you are not disabled. These kids are not disabled, and then suddenly they are when they enroll in Pomona, or their fancy private high school? No.

OMG. 2e is a thing. Just stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

That's not what this conversation is about, actually. It's precisely the fact that these schools are SO selective that makes it incredibly hard to believe that suddenly 1/4 of the students have disabling conditions necessitating academic accommodations. That makes a mockery out of actual disabilities.

As a side note, I do think it's untenable to offer accommodations like extra time and calculators to some kids, and not to other kids.

Kids can be 2e (aka twice exceptional) — i.e. gifted and dealing with an LD. Wouldn’t surprise me if (a) 2e kids often have interesting and thoughtful stories to tell (b) 2e kids may themselves prefer (and/or have parents who strongly prefer) learning environments that are smaller scale and where teachers routinely engage with and get to know most of their students (c) parents and 2e kids, especially those who are attending college far from home, want a school that has experience, resources, and a good reputation for dealing with LDs. Also, Pomona has a class size of about 420 kids. And it’s an expensive school with predominantly affluent students. So, yeah, it doesn’t blow my mind that 22% of the students who enroll there have a documented LD. It might well be the most LD-friendly elite college in the US.

No. 20% of Pomona admits have not suddenly become 2e.

Correct, most have no doubt been 2e all along. But suddenly (or perhaps gradually) Pomona looked like a simultaneously elite and supportive environment.

No, you're not "2e all along" if you manage to get through elementary, middle, and high school without an IEP. That's not how "2e" works. 2e does not mean "smart but quirky" or "smart but makes careless errors." It means - you have a disability that requires special education to access the curriculum. Perhaps you want to drastically downgrade the definition of disability - but at least be upfront about that. Nobody is 2e and gaining admission to Pomona without a history of significant supports already.

Oh bullshit. There are lots of 2e kids who fly under the radar because they are relatively high-performing and/or they may have an LD that impacts one aspect of their academic performance while they excel in some other discipline.

THOSE KIDS ARE NOT DISABLED. Period. If your "disability" does not stop you from being "high performing" without accommodations, you are not disabled. These kids are not disabled, and then suddenly they are when they enroll in Pomona, or their fancy private high school? No.

OMG. 2e is a thing. Just stop.

I know 2e is "a thing." It's absolutely not "a thing" that 20-30% of elite prep school and college students have. 2e is my friend's HFA son who draws hyper-realistic illustrations at 5. It's not a smart, wealthy kid who makes careless errors.

[Anonymous]

Poster earlier today pointed out that Pomona’s numbers included kids with mental health issues like depression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Arg I am sorry I just get so frustrated with these types of posts.

These are curved, competitive tests.
Literally every human on earth has some sort of cognitive limitation -- some area in which they are not quite as advanced as they could be.
Virtually all human beings on earth would benefit from extra time on timed tests to demonstrate their ability.
That is precisely why they are timed.

It is like stating that your kid is a great runner he just has trouble with hurdles, so all the hurdles should be removed. Then when his hurdles are all removed but all the other kids are still jumping over hurdles, he will appear to be a faster runner than them. He is not. They are just still jumping over hurdles that have been removed for your snowflake.

We may as well just make the tests untimed for everyone. Then at least we can compare apples to apples.

Ultimately this is of limited benefit except as a means for wealthy people to game the system, which they will ALWAYS do but even moreso when quantitive, objective criteria are purposefully watered down and distorted.

At the end of the day life is an IQ test so good luck getting extra time at your job.

This this this this this.

I'm sorry that you don't believe your kids can compete against kids with disabilities if those kids get accommodations for their disabilities. If your child is such a poor reader that the kid with dyslexia can run laps around him because of extra time, perhaps you should get your child evaluated?

It's really easy to think you're superior when you're ignoring all the disadvantages other people have to deal with. It's harder to think you're superior when we try to level the playing field. It's tough, but I have ever confidence that given time you'll be able to cope with your disappointment at not being as amazing as you thought you were when you were playing with a stacked deck.

This this this this this!!! It is fascinating reading all of the posters here who feel their kids are being outdone by kids with special needs. Just astonishing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Oh, I'm sure you are "quite pleased."

Do you have a problem with the fact that a family successfully helped a struggling kid? Or do you consider this situation “gaming the system.? Because it seems that people get up in arms when these kids actually become successful. I mean, isn’t that the whole idea of giving accommodations?

NP

I have a problem with the fact that a family helped a struggling kid because they were wealthy and had the means to do so. Not every kid is afforded that help. It tips the scales to the side of socioeconomic class. As most things tend to do. I just don't think it's right.

Other things that are not right, because they tip the scale to the high SES, especially since extracurriculars are important to schools like Pomona:

Buying into a good school district

Sending your kids to private school

Paying for SAT tutoring

Paying for any academic tutoring

Paying to have your child join any extracurricular activity. The FLL fee was $200 this year. Debate? Probably $400, including tournament fees and coaching. Marching band. Don’t even get me started.

Renting or buying instruments and paying for private music lessons

Paying for travel sports and private athletic lessons

Having a SAHM who makes breakfast, and runs kids to extracurriculars, to volunteers in the school, to give her kids the best chance

Sending your kid overseas on educational travel or service missions.

Etc, etc. etc.

Plus, of course, taking you kid to the doctor when they are sick, and getting them good medical care (because ADHD is a medical disagnosis).

A family struggling with two working parents certainly cannot afford to do these things. And even if the could, they can’t drive them to and from, because they are likely working 3 jobs between 2 parents.

I agree with you that life gives more opportunities to people with money. Which is why I volunteer in my kids activities and always donate to the Band Boosters fund for kids who cannot afford fares, and SHARE to help underprivileged girls afford scouting and attend camp and attend camp, and the FLL fund to buy equipment to Title I school teams. I donate extensively to programs that support underprivileged kids through the CFC. I strong “encourage” obe kid to participate in a program that readers with 2nd and 3rd graders in a Title 1 school and another to work with TJ STEM by helping free teach TJ test prep classes and mentoring a high talent FARMS kid through the admissions process.

And of course, I vote for politicians who want to expand healthcare to everyone, and better fund our schools, and certainly not cut SNAP and WIC and Section 8. I think less affluent kids should get as many opportunities as mine do. And IDEA should be strengthened to make it easier for parents to access free educational testing at school, to train teachers to recognize it, and require schools to offer it if they suspect an LD— not just provide it if parents ask.

But don’t you dare tell me I have an obligation not to diagnose and treat my kids ADHD— to watch my child struggle in school, be miserable, have terrible grades, and be at significant risk for not graduating from HS, forget college, develop substance abuse issues from self medication, and be at a very high risk for anxiety and depression, because not every can afford to properly teach ADHD. It is a crime that they can’t. But I will not sacrifice my kid to prove some point.

When you move to Mount Vernon or Lee, and only provide the supports— time and money— that a FARMS family can provide— including Healthcare, because ADHD is a DSM diagnosis, and covered by insurance as mental health impairment, then you can tell people not to help their kid treat a medical condition, because “unfair to the poors”.

Until then F*ck off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Oh, I'm sure you are "quite pleased."

Do you have a problem with the fact that a family successfully helped a struggling kid? Or do you consider this situation “gaming the system.? Because it seems that people get up in arms when these kids actually become successful. I mean, isn’t that the whole idea of giving accommodations?

NP

I have a problem with the fact that a family helped a struggling kid because they were wealthy and had the means to do so. Not every kid is afforded that help. It tips the scales to the side of socioeconomic class. As most things tend to do. I just don't think it's right.

Other things that are not right, because they tip the scale to the high SES, especially since extracurriculars are important to schools like Pomona:

Buying into a good school district

Sending your kids to private school

Paying for SAT tutoring

Paying for any academic tutoring

Paying to have your child join any extracurricular activity. The FLL fee was $200 this year. Debate? Probably $400, including tournament fees and coaching. Marching band. Don’t even get me started.

Renting or buying instruments and paying for private music lessons

Paying for travel sports and private athletic lessons

Having a SAHM who makes breakfast, and runs kids to extracurriculars, to volunteers in the school, to give her kids the best chance

Sending your kid overseas on educational travel or service missions.

Etc, etc. etc.

Plus, of course, taking you kid to the doctor when they are sick, and getting them good medical care (because ADHD is a medical disagnosis).

A family struggling with two working parents certainly cannot afford to do these things. And even if the could, they can’t drive them to and from, because they are likely working 3 jobs between 2 parents.

I agree with you that life gives more opportunities to people with money. Which is why I volunteer in my kids activities and always donate to the Band Boosters fund for kids who cannot afford fares, and SHARE to help underprivileged girls afford scouting and attend camp and attend camp, and the FLL fund to buy equipment to Title I school teams. I donate extensively to programs that support underprivileged kids through the CFC. I strong “encourage” obe kid to participate in a program that readers with 2nd and 3rd graders in a Title 1 school and another to work with TJ STEM by helping free teach TJ test prep classes and mentoring a high talent FARMS kid through the admissions process.

And of course, I vote for politicians who want to expand healthcare to everyone, and better fund our schools, and certainly not cut SNAP and WIC and Section 8. I think less affluent kids should get as many opportunities as mine do. And IDEA should be strengthened to make it easier for parents to access free educational testing at school, to train teachers to recognize it, and require schools to offer it if they suspect an LD— not just provide it if parents ask.

But don’t you dare tell me I have an obligation not to diagnose and treat my kids ADHD— to watch my child struggle in school, be miserable, have terrible grades, and be at significant risk for not graduating from HS, forget college, develop substance abuse issues from self medication, and be at a very high risk for anxiety and depression, because not every can afford to properly teach ADHD. It is a crime that they can’t. But I will not sacrifice my kid to prove some point.

When you move to Mount Vernon or Lee, and only provide the supports— time and money— that a FARMS family can provide— including Healthcare, because ADHD is a DSM diagnosis, and covered by insurance as mental health impairment, then you can tell people not to help their kid treat a medical condition, because “unfair to the poors”.

Until then F*ck off.

I love you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Arg I am sorry I just get so frustrated with these types of posts.

These are curved, competitive tests.
Literally every human on earth has some sort of cognitive limitation -- some area in which they are not quite as advanced as they could be.
Virtually all human beings on earth would benefit from extra time on timed tests to demonstrate their ability.
That is precisely why they are timed.

It is like stating that your kid is a great runner he just has trouble with hurdles, so all the hurdles should be removed. Then when his hurdles are all removed but all the other kids are still jumping over hurdles, he will appear to be a faster runner than them. He is not. They are just still jumping over hurdles that have been removed for your snowflake.

We may as well just make the tests untimed for everyone. Then at least we can compare apples to apples.

Ultimately this is of limited benefit except as a means for wealthy people to game the system, which they will ALWAYS do but even moreso when quantitive, objective criteria are purposefully watered down and distorted.

At the end of the day life is an IQ test so good luck getting extra time at your job.

This this this this this.

I'm sorry that you don't believe your kids can compete against kids with disabilities if those kids get accommodations for their disabilities. If your child is such a poor reader that the kid with dyslexia can run laps around him because of extra time, perhaps you should get your child evaluated?

It's really easy to think you're superior when you're ignoring all the disadvantages other people have to deal with. It's harder to think you're superior when we try to level the playing field. It's tough, but I have ever confidence that given time you'll be able to cope with your disappointment at not being as amazing as you thought you were when you were playing with a stacked deck.

This is illogical thinking masked by an ad hominem. Of course having a cognitive impairment is a disadvantage. Of course removing the added difficulty of a timed condition makes a test easier.

Literally everyone on earth has some sort of cognitive impairment. Ergo, everyone on earth needs to have the same untimed conditions.

If your child can demonstrate a need for accommodations, your child can request them. Being average is not a disability. Being average is not an argument for accommodations.

Getting accommodations at school isn't trivial, and getting accommodations for the college board exams also isn't trivial. In my experience, you need to demonstrate need.

It is possible that there are a few people scamming the system. Just like there are a few people scamming welfare. Generally, the vast numbers helped by the aid argue for its retention in the face of the very few scammers. I suppose you could be one of those people who thinks any system that has the possibility of abuse needs to be rejected. News flash, every system has the possibility of being abused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poster earlier today pointed out that Pomona’s numbers included kids with mental health issues like depression.

I mean, the article makes that pretty clear.

As many as one in four students at some elite U.S. colleges are now classified as disabled, largely because of mental-health issues such as depression or anxiety, entitling them to a widening array of special accommodations like longer time to take exams.

Not that big of an issue IMO, 25% is just about what I'd expect for the percent of college students with mental health issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Oh, I'm sure you are "quite pleased."

Do you have a problem with the fact that a family successfully helped a struggling kid? Or do you consider this situation “gaming the system.? Because it seems that people get up in arms when these kids actually become successful. I mean, isn’t that the whole idea of giving accommodations?

NP

I have a problem with the fact that a family helped a struggling kid because they were wealthy and had the means to do so. Not every kid is afforded that help. It tips the scales to the side of socioeconomic class. As most things tend to do. I just don't think it's right.

Other things that are not right, because they tip the scale to the high SES, especially since extracurriculars are important to schools like Pomona:

Buying into a good school district

Sending your kids to private school

Paying for SAT tutoring

Paying for any academic tutoring

Paying to have your child join any extracurricular activity. The FLL fee was $200 this year. Debate? Probably $400, including tournament fees and coaching. Marching band. Don’t even get me started.

Renting or buying instruments and paying for private music lessons

Paying for travel sports and private athletic lessons

Having a SAHM who makes breakfast, and runs kids to extracurriculars, to volunteers in the school, to give her kids the best chance

Sending your kid overseas on educational travel or service missions.

Etc, etc. etc.

Plus, of course, taking you kid to the doctor when they are sick, and getting them good medical care (because ADHD is a medical disagnosis).

A family struggling with two working parents certainly cannot afford to do these things. And even if the could, they can’t drive them to and from, because they are likely working 3 jobs between 2 parents.

I agree with you that life gives more opportunities to people with money. Which is why I volunteer in my kids activities and always donate to the Band Boosters fund for kids who cannot afford fares, and SHARE to help underprivileged girls afford scouting and attend camp and attend camp, and the FLL fund to buy equipment to Title I school teams. I donate extensively to programs that support underprivileged kids through the CFC. I strong “encourage” obe kid to participate in a program that readers with 2nd and 3rd graders in a Title 1 school and another to work with TJ STEM by helping free teach TJ test prep classes and mentoring a high talent FARMS kid through the admissions process.

And of course, I vote for politicians who want to expand healthcare to everyone, and better fund our schools, and certainly not cut SNAP and WIC and Section 8. I think less affluent kids should get as many opportunities as mine do. And IDEA should be strengthened to make it easier for parents to access free educational testing at school, to train teachers to recognize it, and require schools to offer it if they suspect an LD— not just provide it if parents ask.

But don’t you dare tell me I have an obligation not to diagnose and treat my kids ADHD— to watch my child struggle in school, be miserable, have terrible grades, and be at significant risk for not graduating from HS, forget college, develop substance abuse issues from self medication, and be at a very high risk for anxiety and depression, because not every can afford to properly teach ADHD. It is a crime that they can’t. But I will not sacrifice my kid to prove some point.

When you move to Mount Vernon or Lee, and only provide the supports— time and money— that a FARMS family can provide— including Healthcare, because ADHD is a DSM diagnosis, and covered by insurance as mental health impairment, then you can tell people not to help their kid treat a medical condition, because “unfair to the poors”.

Until then F*ck off.

Testy, aren’t we?

My kid would benefit from accommodations but we don’t take them. In our family it is far more valuable to teach our kids to make the best of what they have and find a way to make it work - not to not expect the world to offer them accommodations when they aren’t as good at something as someone else.

To each his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@657. It’s on the college forum, because parents are facing a tough college entrance environment. And it’s scary. So they are latching onto— but my kid could get into a top ten school if their spot wasn’t taken by an ADHD kid who cheated on the SAT. Which is crazy. These schools have 6% admit rates. If your kid does not have a significant hook or is is very lucky in their profile, they are not getting in. Neither is the ADHD kid. And no amount of extra time is going to give your kid the 1560 on the SAT they would need to even have their essay read. It is not a test you can do perfectly, even with u limited time. You have to be very fluent in the material. If you don’t know the vocal work or get the math problem, more time does not help.

It is also scholarships and merit awards. Kids who know the materials but do not get extended time or a calculator are the ones who are disadvantaged by those who gamed the system. I am not referring to kids w true disabilities but the wealthy parents who have connections and can get and pay for a diagnosis. Those of you who don’t believe this obviously is not in the prep school environment where there are a lot of wealthy parents and accomodations.

It's true that private schools have a much larger percentage of kids on accommodations. And I think there's some truth to the wealthy=accommodations. But one factor contributing to the prevalence of accommodations at private HS may be the fact that private schools are better and more responsive to kids with learning disabilities so parents specifically choose private over publice for their kids with learning disabilities. My dc is in a public HS and has accommodations. Private HS would be possible but really hard for us financially. But everyday, I wish we had moved him to private. Public HS is sink or swim. My son has accommodations but there are some classes he just refuses to use it in because the teacher is so hostile to it. Yes by law, they need to give him extended time. And I guess they would if dc pushed for it, but he's a kid and when you have a teacher who so clearly doesn't want to deal with it, he's not going to push for it. I see my friends with kids in private and see the responsiveness, willingness & feedback they get from teachers. You just don't get that at a public HS. I'm not blaming the public school teachers. They may be as every bit good but they just have too many students. If I could do it all over again, I would have sent this one dc to private HS. My other kids were totally fine in public.

Why would you think that? DC area privates are not exactly jumping out of their seats to admit kids with diagnoses and the need for additional support. Just read these forums when people ask for ideas for private schools their kids with HFA or ADHD. What the private schools have is very rich and connected kids whose parents can wrangle "accommodations" when it suits them.

Depends on the kids and the school. IIRC, about 30% of the kids in HS at GDS had some kind of accommodation. And there are learning specialists on staff for all grade levels. Don’t know how many families declared known LDs prior to admission.

Listen to my works. 30% of GDS HS students would NOT qualify for an IEP under IDEA. They have "accommodation" that mommy and daddy purchased for them.

So? Just because a kid doesn’t qualify for an IEP doesn’t mean he is not entitled to accommodations. IEP is extremely difficult to get and maintain. My DS had a 504 (which is not an IEP) for many years in public school before moving to private. The college board saw that he had a history of using accommodations and he was granted extended time. We are wealthy, but hardly gaming the system. We were just fortunate enough to have teachers who quickly identified problems at a very young age. He is the one with adhd, lowish processing speed but high working memory. Consequently, he does really well in school and on tests. Just needs the time to demonstrate that ability. That extra time makes a significant impact in his scores. We are quite pleased with how it all worked out for him.

Oh, I'm sure you are "quite pleased."

Do you have a problem with the fact that a family successfully helped a struggling kid? Or do you consider this situation “gaming the system.? Because it seems that people get up in arms when these kids actually become successful. I mean, isn’t that the whole idea of giving accommodations?

NP

I have a problem with the fact that a family helped a struggling kid because they were wealthy and had the means to do so. Not every kid is afforded that help. It tips the scales to the side of socioeconomic class. As most things tend to do. I just don't think it's right.

Other things that are not right, because they tip the scale to the high SES, especially since extracurriculars are important to schools like Pomona:

Buying into a good school district

Sending your kids to private school

Paying for SAT tutoring

Paying for any academic tutoring

Paying to have your child join any extracurricular activity. The FLL fee was $200 this year. Debate? Probably $400, including tournament fees and coaching. Marching band. Don’t even get me started.

Renting or buying instruments and paying for private music lessons

Paying for travel sports and private athletic lessons

Having a SAHM who makes breakfast, and runs kids to extracurriculars, to volunteers in the school, to give her kids the best chance

Sending your kid overseas on educational travel or service missions.

Etc, etc. etc.

Plus, of course, taking you kid to the doctor when they are sick, and getting them good medical care (because ADHD is a medical disagnosis).

A family struggling with two working parents certainly cannot afford to do these things. And even if the could, they can’t drive them to and from, because they are likely working 3 jobs between 2 parents.

I agree with you that life gives more opportunities to people with money. Which is why I volunteer in my kids activities and always donate to the Band Boosters fund for kids who cannot afford fares, and SHARE to help underprivileged girls afford scouting and attend camp and attend camp, and the FLL fund to buy equipment to Title I school teams. I donate extensively to programs that support underprivileged kids through the CFC. I strong “encourage” obe kid to participate in a program that readers with 2nd and 3rd graders in a Title 1 school and another to work with TJ STEM by helping free teach TJ test prep classes and mentoring a high talent FARMS kid through the admissions process.

And of course, I vote for politicians who want to expand healthcare to everyone, and better fund our schools, and certainly not cut SNAP and WIC and Section 8. I think less affluent kids should get as many opportunities as mine do. And IDEA should be strengthened to make it easier for parents to access free educational testing at school, to train teachers to recognize it, and require schools to offer it if they suspect an LD— not just provide it if parents ask.

But don’t you dare tell me I have an obligation not to diagnose and treat my kids ADHD— to watch my child struggle in school, be miserable, have terrible grades, and be at significant risk for not graduating from HS, forget college, develop substance abuse issues from self medication, and be at a very high risk for anxiety and depression, because not every can afford to properly teach ADHD. It is a crime that they can’t. But I will not sacrifice my kid to prove some point.

When you move to Mount Vernon or Lee, and only provide the supports— time and money— that a FARMS family can provide— including Healthcare, because ADHD is a DSM diagnosis, and covered by insurance as mental health impairment, then you can tell people not to help their kid treat a medical condition, because “unfair to the poors”.

Until then F*ck off.

Testy, aren’t we?

My kid would benefit from accommodations but we don’t take them. In our family it is far more valuable to teach our kids to make the best of what they have and find a way to make it work - not to not expect the world to offer them accommodations when they aren’t as good at something as someone else.

To each his own.

So ignorant.