Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

If you support gun reform, why are you buying into the rhetoric of people who try to distract from gun reform? I am actually starting to believe you are anti-gun reform putting up a good show. Because it sure seems like you want us talking about anything but gun reform.

Gun reform is the answer. Need to hear it again? Also how many school shootings are we going to argue about without working in parallel to protect our kids? Like I said, vote out the congressmen and women opposing safeguards for our citizens. But if I'm a parent of a school-age child, and I am, I am also wanting to hear what is being done *right now* to keep my kiddo safe in their fifth grade class. I'm not promoting right wing talking points, ffs. I'm pointing out that there's been 27 school shootings in this year alone. Gun reform and immediate school safeguards are not, and should not be, mutually exclusive.

Here you go:
https://momsdemandaction.org/

If you want to see change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

He had POLICE CHASING HIM and was still able to murder a 20 people. Why isn't the news reporting this? It was mentioned on Anderson Cooper. I don't understand why every news outlet isn't reporting that armed police weren't able to stop him after he crashed his car.

And, Abbott wants to arm teachers because they can wield weapons better than the police can.

That police couldn't stop him is the best fighting chance to insist that gun control is imperative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

You’re actually wrong about this. Two armed school resource officers “engaged” the gunman, but he pinned them down with heavier firearms and was wearing Kevlar. He was able to get into a building, despite getting shot at by armed officers.

“More security” or “armed teachers” won’t stop this from happening when gunmen have heavier weapons, armor, and the element of surprise. All a gunman needs is 60 seconds to kill an entire classroom. No security response can ever be quick enough to mitigate the element of surprise on a soft target. The only thing to do is restrict who can access guns, armor, high capacity magazines, etc.

+1. And in my county, Loudoun, they have retrofitted all of the schools so that visitors have to be buzzed in twice - you first get buzzed into a locked entryway and then get buzzed into the office. It’s something I guess, but all it will really do is slow the shooter down and maybe give teacher a few extra seconds to lock doors and pull kids in from the hallway. Someone who wants in will find a way. Or just attend a sports game or something crowded and outdoors.

[Anonymous]

A few thoughts:

1) Mental health is a big issue.
2) Video games/social media are contributing to the problem.
3) Banning AR15s or even all guns won’t completely eliminate the problem.
4) increasing security may help some but again having one armed cop does not mean a determined gun person won’t succeed.

[Anonymous]

Time to go after the guns. Time to vote OUT the politicans who refuse to do anything about our national health crisis of gun violence.

There is simply no reason why weapons of war, (AR15, etc) should be legal. They were specifically designed for killing people.

No other developed country has this problem.

We have 400 MILLION guns in America. THAT is why the killing goes on and on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

You’re actually wrong about this. Two armed school resource officers “engaged” the gunman, but he pinned them down with heavier firearms and was wearing Kevlar. He was able to get into a building, despite getting shot at by armed officers.

“More security” or “armed teachers” won’t stop this from happening when gunmen have heavier weapons, armor, and the element of surprise. All a gunman needs is 60 seconds to kill an entire classroom. No security response can ever be quick enough to mitigate the element of surprise on a soft target. The only thing to do is restrict who can access guns, armor, high capacity magazines, etc.

+1. And in my county, Loudoun, they have retrofitted all of the schools so that visitors have to be buzzed in twice - you first get buzzed into a locked entryway and then get buzzed into the office. It’s something I guess, but all it will really do is slow the shooter down and maybe give teacher a few extra seconds to lock doors and pull kids in from the hallway. Someone who wants in will find a way. Or just attend a sports game or something crowded and outdoors.

Or they will just target drop off or pick up when hundreds of kids & caregivers are milling about at the periphery of the school.

You can’t “more security!” your way out of a determined gunman with a long-gun assault weapon and the element of surprise. The only thing you can do is restrict access to ever more powerful weapons of war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts:

1) Mental health is a big issue.
2) Video games/social media are contributing to the problem.
3) Banning AR15s or even all guns won’t completely eliminate the problem.
4) increasing security may help some but again having one armed cop does not mean a determined gun person won’t succeed.

Just a question: what value to society do you believe guns like AR15s offer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

He had POLICE CHASING HIM and was still able to murder a 20 people. Why isn't the news reporting this? It was mentioned on Anderson Cooper. I don't understand why every news outlet isn't reporting that armed police weren't able to stop him after he crashed his car.

And, Abbott wants to arm teachers because they can wield weapons better than the police can.

That police couldn't stop him is the best fighting chance to insist that gun control is imperative.

There is a lot about this story that isn’t being reported.

Why was the shooter being chased by police?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts:

1) Mental health is a big issue.
2) Video games/social media are contributing to the problem.
3) Banning AR15s or even all guns won’t completely eliminate the problem.
4) increasing security may help some but again having one armed cop does not mean a determined gun person won’t succeed.

Just a question: what value to society do you believe guns like AR15s offer?

I believe law enforcement should definitely have ARs and high quality bulletproof vests.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

You’re actually wrong about this. Two armed school resource officers “engaged” the gunman, but he pinned them down with heavier firearms and was wearing Kevlar. He was able to get into a building, despite getting shot at by armed officers.

“More security” or “armed teachers” won’t stop this from happening when gunmen have heavier weapons, armor, and the element of surprise. All a gunman needs is 60 seconds to kill an entire classroom. No security response can ever be quick enough to mitigate the element of surprise on a soft target. The only thing to do is restrict who can access guns, armor, high capacity magazines, etc.

+1. And in my county, Loudoun, they have retrofitted all of the schools so that visitors have to be buzzed in twice - you first get buzzed into a locked entryway and then get buzzed into the office. It’s something I guess, but all it will really do is slow the shooter down and maybe give teacher a few extra seconds to lock doors and pull kids in from the hallway. Someone who wants in will find a way. Or just attend a sports game or something crowded and outdoors.

You are lucky to have that. When I asked in Alexandria City if this was possible they said oh don't worry the staff see everyone coming in the door so they can stop someone

In these situations, seconds can make a difference so even slowing someone down for 10, 20, 30 seconds, helps.

[Anonymous]

"What struck me was these kinds of mass shootings rarely happen anywhere else in the world. Why?

"They have mental health problems. They have domestic disputes in other countries. They have people who are lost, but these kinds of mass shootings never happen with the kind of frequency they happen in America. Why? Why are we willing to live with this carnage?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

You’re actually wrong about this. Two armed school resource officers “engaged” the gunman, but he pinned them down with heavier firearms and was wearing Kevlar. He was able to get into a building, despite getting shot at by armed officers.

“More security” or “armed teachers” won’t stop this from happening when gunmen have heavier weapons, armor, and the element of surprise. All a gunman needs is 60 seconds to kill an entire classroom. No security response can ever be quick enough to mitigate the element of surprise on a soft target. The only thing to do is restrict who can access guns, armor, high capacity magazines, etc.

+1. And in my county, Loudoun, they have retrofitted all of the schools so that visitors have to be buzzed in twice - you first get buzzed into a locked entryway and then get buzzed into the office. It’s something I guess, but all it will really do is slow the shooter down and maybe give teacher a few extra seconds to lock doors and pull kids in from the hallway. Someone who wants in will find a way. Or just attend a sports game or something crowded and outdoors.

You are lucky to have that. When I asked in Alexandria City if this was possible they said oh don't worry the staff see everyone coming in the door so they can stop someone

In these situations, seconds can make a difference so even slowing someone down for 10, 20, 30 seconds, helps.

Yep, as long as they only kill 6-7 people and not 20+, everything will be okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

He had POLICE CHASING HIM and was still able to murder a 20 people. Why isn't the news reporting this? It was mentioned on Anderson Cooper. I don't understand why every news outlet isn't reporting that armed police weren't able to stop him after he crashed his car.

And, Abbott wants to arm teachers because they can wield weapons better than the police can.

That police couldn't stop him is the best fighting chance to insist that gun control is imperative.

This 10000000+

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

He had POLICE CHASING HIM and was still able to murder a 20 people. Why isn't the news reporting this? It was mentioned on Anderson Cooper. I don't understand why every news outlet isn't reporting that armed police weren't able to stop him after he crashed his car.

And, Abbott wants to arm teachers because they can wield weapons better than the police can.

That police couldn't stop him is the best fighting chance to insist that gun control is imperative.

There is a lot about this story that isn’t being reported.

Why was the shooter being chased by police?

He shot at his grandma before getting in his car and he ran it into a ditch. The police were already there, but he was wearing armor and weren't able to stop him. Looking for details and ZIP.