Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts:

1) Mental health is a big issue.
2) Video games/social media are contributing to the problem.
3) Banning AR15s or even all guns won’t completely eliminate the problem.
4) increasing security may help some but again having one armed cop does not mean a determined gun person won’t succeed.

Mental health professional here. By all means let’s improve access to mental health treatment and decrease stigma. However- that is in no way going to stop this. Mental health practitioners know this. The problem is the guns and there is no “improve mental health”-ing our way out of this and it’s magical thinking to suggest otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"What struck me was these kinds of mass shootings rarely happen anywhere else in the world. Why?

"They have mental health problems. They have domestic disputes in other countries. They have people who are lost, but these kinds of mass shootings never happen with the kind of frequency they happen in America. Why? Why are we willing to live with this carnage?"

From what I have read the shooter had a terrible home life with a drug addicted mother and absent father. He was relentlessly bullied for a stutter in middle school and became very angry and violent by high school. He was currently living with his grandmother whose home he had recently moved into and spore fly yesterday he shot her.

There are multiple layers here but this kid seemed to have so many warning signs. It’s awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're at the point where school shootings don't aren't even mentioned on washingtonpsot.com or nytimes.com. I guess we've just accepted them as normal

I think there's a choice not to cover them because they seem to cause copy cats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, good, they are starting in on the poor bullied boy narrative.

Listen, young men in this country are done no favors because we have few pathways for them to tame their bullshit (ahem, excuse me, their masculinity) and become productive humans worthy of being included in the community. Yes, I said it--some are simply not worthy right out of the gate and must be shaped into submission. Some cultures send adolescent males up into a mountain to kill a tiger and prove they are worth it. We let ours play video games and complain endlessly.

And spare me about the bullying over the speech impediment. People who are different get bullied because deep down even the young know that "different" people are a threat to social cohesion and the safety of the community. This is a deep, innate human feeling. We are all lucky that we have medical science to help with ailments that otherwise would have gotten you left somewhere to die.

We need to get real about this stuff. Kids like Ramos should have been sent away and whipped into shape by family and community elders by the time he was 13. And of course this kid had no father. OF COURSE.

No one will like what I am saying, but it's the truth. Spare me the BS about how he should have gone to therapy. Get real.

You and I are on the same page. Glad to know I am not alone. As we have seen more women in leadership positions, the importance of kindness and empathy have grown outsized. I am a woman who believes in kindness and empathy but they do not run the world and cannot ever and always be the answers.

Kindness and empathy only work with people who are already had their characters formed into being, at a minimum, civilized. So yes, empathic leadership, female leadership, etc. is great when it comes to companies, organizations, governments. It does not work with young, testosterone, low-average IQ males who need discipline and structure and a pathway to tame their most basic instincts. If it can't be done, they don't belong in our communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What struck me was these kinds of mass shootings rarely happen anywhere else in the world. Why?

"They have mental health problems. They have domestic disputes in other countries. They have people who are lost, but these kinds of mass shootings never happen with the kind of frequency they happen in America. Why? Why are we willing to live with this carnage?"

From what I have read the shooter had a terrible home life with a drug addicted mother and absent father. He was relentlessly bullied for a stutter in middle school and became very angry and violent by high school. He was currently living with his grandmother whose home he had recently moved into and spore fly yesterday he shot her.

There are multiple layers here but this kid seemed to have so many warning signs. It’s awful.

Your conveniently forgot that he was living the the USA. Kids with these problems and worse also exist in other countries--countries where school shootings are NOT a regular occurrence. They don't have easy access to assault rifles, body armor, and ammunition. They don't have spineless, self-serving senators whose constituents are contented with their "thoughts and prayers" every single damn time.

[Anonymous]

Those doggone people with "mental health" problems.... It has NOTHING to do with easy access to assault weapons!. Nothing at all!

#RepublicanAmmosexuals4Ever.

[Anonymous]

It's weird to me that TX can police miscarrying women but somehow doesn't know who is going to kill 14 post-birth fetuses (ie children) with an assault rifle.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/10/texas-woman-murder-charges-dropped-self-induced-abortion

[Anonymous]

His mom was a drug addict and a crappy parent. He had recently moved in with grandma who owned both her own home and her daughter’s home. She was in the process of evicting her daughter for drug use.

There was a long WaPo story about the family. Total train wreck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

You’re actually wrong about this. Two armed school resource officers “engaged” the gunman, but he pinned them down with heavier firearms and was wearing Kevlar. He was able to get into a building, despite getting shot at by armed officers.

“More security” or “armed teachers” won’t stop this from happening when gunmen have heavier weapons, armor, and the element of surprise. All a gunman needs is 60 seconds to kill an entire classroom. No security response can ever be quick enough to mitigate the element of surprise on a soft target. The only thing to do is restrict who can access guns, armor, high capacity magazines, etc.

+1. And in my county, Loudoun, they have retrofitted all of the schools so that visitors have to be buzzed in twice - you first get buzzed into a locked entryway and then get buzzed into the office. It’s something I guess, but all it will really do is slow the shooter down and maybe give teacher a few extra seconds to lock doors and pull kids in from the hallway. Someone who wants in will find a way. Or just attend a sports game or something crowded and outdoors.

Or they will just target drop off or pick up when hundreds of kids & caregivers are milling about at the periphery of the school.

You can’t “more security!” your way out of a determined gunman with a long-gun assault weapon and the element of surprise. The only thing you can do is restrict access to ever more powerful weapons of war.

Agreed. In addition to this, if gun and ammunition manufacturers could be held liable in civil lawsuits, I think that would also go a long way toward alleviating this problem without physically taking people’s guns away from them—which will never ever happen.

[Anonymous]

Grandmother is still alive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His mom was a drug addict and a crappy parent. He had recently moved in with grandma who owned both her own home and her daughter’s home. She was in the process of evicting her daughter for drug use.

There was a long WaPo story about the family. Total train wreck.

I don't subscribe so I can't read it and I hope this part of the story gets picked up by other outlets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grandmother is still alive

This is good news on two fronts, to get insight on the killer's motives and because yesterday they were reporting that she was dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His mom was a drug addict and a crappy parent. He had recently moved in with grandma who owned both her own home and her daughter’s home. She was in the process of evicting her daughter for drug use.

There was a long WaPo story about the family. Total train wreck.

And yet the GOP wants forced births, no expansion of social services, and expansion of gun rights. Please vote these crazies out.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What struck me was these kinds of mass shootings rarely happen anywhere else in the world. Why?

"They have mental health problems. They have domestic disputes in other countries. They have people who are lost, but these kinds of mass shootings never happen with the kind of frequency they happen in America. Why? Why are we willing to live with this carnage?"

From what I have read the shooter had a terrible home life with a drug addicted mother and absent father. He was relentlessly bullied for a stutter in middle school and became very angry and violent by high school. He was currently living with his grandmother whose home he had recently moved into and spore fly yesterday he shot her.

There are multiple layers here but this kid seemed to have so many warning signs. It’s awful.

And yet we did nothing to prevent him from buying multiple guns on his 18th birthday.