Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, good, they are starting in on the poor bullied boy narrative.

Listen, young men in this country are done no favors because we have few pathways for them to tame their bullshit (ahem, excuse me, their masculinity) and become productive humans worthy of being included in the community. Yes, I said it--some are simply not worthy right out of the gate and must be shaped into submission. Some cultures send adolescent males up into a mountain to kill a tiger and prove they are worth it. We let ours play video games and complain endlessly.

And spare me about the bullying over the speech impediment. People who are different get bullied because deep down even the young know that "different" people are a threat to social cohesion and the safety of the community. This is a deep, innate human feeling. We are all lucky that we have medical science to help with ailments that otherwise would have gotten you left somewhere to die.

We need to get real about this stuff. Kids like Ramos should have been sent away and whipped into shape by family and community elders by the time he was 13. And of course this kid had no father. OF COURSE.

No one will like what I am saying, but it's the truth. Spare me the BS about how he should have gone to therapy. Get real.

You and I are on the same page. Glad to know I am not alone. As we have seen more women in leadership positions, the importance of kindness and empathy have grown outsized. I am a woman who believes in kindness and empathy but they do not run the world and cannot ever and always be the answers.

[Anonymous]

Can we have gated armed security at schools? Can we create TSA for schools? Everyday millions of American go through scrutiny and take off their shoes because one guy TRIED to light his shoe bomb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we have gated armed security at schools? Can we create TSA for schools? Everyday millions of American go through scrutiny and take off their shoes because one guy TRIED to light his shoe bomb.

Why are you opposed to gun reform?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

If you support gun reform, why are you buying into the rhetoric of people who try to distract from gun reform? I am actually starting to believe you are anti-gun reform putting up a good show. Because it sure seems like you want us talking about anything but gun reform.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

If you support gun reform, why are you buying into the rhetoric of people who try to distract from gun reform? I am actually starting to believe you are anti-gun reform putting up a good show. Because it sure seems like you want us talking about anything but gun reform.

They literally say gun control is the answer directly above your response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

If you support gun reform, why are you buying into the rhetoric of people who try to distract from gun reform? I am actually starting to believe you are anti-gun reform putting up a good show. Because it sure seems like you want us talking about anything but gun reform.

Gun reform is the answer. Need to hear it again? Also how many school shootings are we going to argue about without working in parallel to protect our kids? Like I said, vote out the congressmen and women opposing safeguards for our citizens. But if I'm a parent of a school-age child, and I am, I am also wanting to hear what is being done *right now* to keep my kiddo safe in their fifth grade class. I'm not promoting right wing talking points, ffs. I'm pointing out that there's been 27 school shootings in this year alone. Gun reform and immediate school safeguards are not, and should not be, mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So predictable. This thread has turned into a shouting match with two sides talking past each other, offering no real solutions.

Stop with the “both sides” bullshit. One side isn’t interested in solutions. They’ve had decades to do something. Anything. The truth is they’re with dead kids snd sleep fine at night after cashing a check from the NRA.

You will never ever get even Democrats to agree on gun confiscation while the Cartels are allowed to run free near/at an open border. Use your head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we have gated armed security at schools? Can we create TSA for schools? Everyday millions of American go through scrutiny and take off their shoes because one guy TRIED to light his shoe bomb.

We’re taking police out of schools. School to prison pipeline > school to morgue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

You’re actually wrong about this. Two armed school resource officers “engaged” the gunman, but he pinned them down with heavier firearms and was wearing Kevlar. He was able to get into a building, despite getting shot at by armed officers.

“More security” or “armed teachers” won’t stop this from happening when gunmen have heavier weapons, armor, and the element of surprise. All a gunman needs is 60 seconds to kill an entire classroom. No security response can ever be quick enough to mitigate the element of surprise on a soft target. The only thing to do is restrict who can access guns, armor, high capacity magazines, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

If you support gun reform, why are you buying into the rhetoric of people who try to distract from gun reform? I am actually starting to believe you are anti-gun reform putting up a good show. Because it sure seems like you want us talking about anything but gun reform.

Gun reform is the answer. Need to hear it again? Also how many school shootings are we going to argue about without working in parallel to protect our kids? Like I said, vote out the congressmen and women opposing safeguards for our citizens. But if I'm a parent of a school-age child, and I am, I am also wanting to hear what is being done *right now* to keep my kiddo safe in their fifth grade class. I'm not promoting right wing talking points, ffs. I'm pointing out that there's been 27 school shootings in this year alone. Gun reform and immediate school safeguards are not, and should not be, mutually exclusive.

The other poster was right that you are very naive.

[Anonymous]

Guns are the issue.

But anyone calling for “more school security” hasn’t been paying attention. Schools did that. At least in areas that aren’t run by the GOP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

If you support gun reform, why are you buying into the rhetoric of people who try to distract from gun reform? I am actually starting to believe you are anti-gun reform putting up a good show. Because it sure seems like you want us talking about anything but gun reform.

Gun reform is the answer. Need to hear it again? Also how many school shootings are we going to argue about without working in parallel to protect our kids? Like I said, vote out the congressmen and women opposing safeguards for our citizens. But if I'm a parent of a school-age child, and I am, I am also wanting to hear what is being done *right now* to keep my kiddo safe in their fifth grade class. I'm not promoting right wing talking points, ffs. I'm pointing out that there's been 27 school shootings in this year alone. Gun reform and immediate school safeguards are not, and should not be, mutually exclusive.

Please. Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland, but *now* you’re engaged? What was done as the result of those? Nothing. What will come of this? Nothing.

See you on the next school shooting thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guns are the issue.

But anyone calling for “more school security” hasn’t been paying attention. Schools did that. At least in areas that aren’t run by the GOP.

Half the school districts in TX allow teachers to carry firearms in classrooms. It won’t stop a school shooting. Texas has plenty of armed officers on campus - this school had two. They were overpowered by a gunman in Kevlar and could not prevent the murder of 18 innocent small kids.

“More security” doesn’t work when a gunman has the element of surprise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but I can't comb through 30 pages.

Obviously gun control is the answer here. But in lieu of actual sensible reform, why can we not secure these school buildings? I work in a hospital. It's badge in, badge out. No exceptions. There's three big-@ss security guards at every door (and only two entrances). No sketchy teen with a backpack full of anything is getting past these guys.

I'm trying to figure out how an 18 yo blows into an elementary school in body armor with a backpack. Why wouldn't we start with a simple security fix??

I worry for your patients if you are this naïve. You think a gun can’t get past three “big @ss” security guards? My dear, that is the entire point of a gun- to give the weakest, flabbiest man the power to kill anyone or anything.

Ignoring your rude comment towards my patients, security guards are *but one* measure of establishing safeguards around a vulnerable population. Others include ID requirements, badge access, check in/out, etc etc. The county courthouse should not be safer than the elementary school. My point is that building security is low-hanging fruit and should be addressed while we work towards safer gun laws.

Doubling down on the stupid, I see.

I'm the hospital worker suggesting increased building security. I've been called "stupid" twice in 4 posts, PP is "worried for my patients". This kind of combative, insulting behavior is why we can't have discussions at this time in our country.

Yes I know you can "shoot your way into a building", as someone else put it. That's not what happened in this scenario, nor is it usually the case. This kid walked into the building. No I don't think "big guys" can stop bullets. Many layers of protection are needed if security is the goal.

There is nothing that will stop these events other than sensible gun control. Nothing. Most Americans (including me) support that. We have 50 sitting senators not listening to the majority of Americans. So what are we doing about that? Obviously we need to vote them out and lobby for what's right. Also, tomorrow another one of these shootings will happen. Asking aloud what we're doing to prevent another school shooting tomorrow isn't "stupid". Anyone hurling insults, wringing their hands, or "sending thoughts and prayers" without also making practical suggestions is part of the problem. Gun control is the answer. I will do everything I can as a voting citizen to get us there. The question is how we are keeping our kids safe today.

You have no clue what happened at the Texas school because they have not released the details. Your hospital’s security measure will not stop a shooter but you keep bring it up. Why? Do you have any expertise in security? Do you know the capabilities of an assault rifle? Do you know the specifications and cost to construct a high caliber bullet proof entry way to your hospital or school? Do you know how to draw up a defense plan to provide overlapping fields of fire with final protective fire? What type of weapons and how many “security” personnel should man the check point? Most likely you would need at least 12 full time personal depending on the size of the school. Those people will need time off and training so you will have to double that number. Now you need support services and administration…so add some another 2-3 people. What type of training should these people have? Who is going to pay for your security? What about the shooter who drives up with a truck? Now you need crew served weapons. Maybe you think the schools needs clear fields of fire 600 meters out from the school? You can never have enough security.