student admissions and TJ lawsuit

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.


Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.


You’re presuming reliable internet access and the technology to be able to run those apps or programs. That’s not a given for many of these families.


But they can afford $1,000 sneakers?

I think that poster was just pointing out some of the vitriol towards Black people.

No, and this is a horrendously racist trope that is directed at Black people. Go away, you're gross.

No, it's not. And the internet access excuse is just laughable.


Yes, it is horrendous. And you don't know what you're talking about on either issue.


And my guess is that you don't care about racist tropes about Asians.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.


Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.


You’re presuming reliable internet access and the technology to be able to run those apps or programs. That’s not a given for many of these families.


But they can afford $1,000 sneakers?

I think that poster was just pointing out some of the vitriol towards Black people.

No, and this is a horrendously racist trope that is directed at Black people. Go away, you're gross.

No, it's not. And the internet access excuse is just laughable.


Yes, it is horrendous. And you don't know what you're talking about on either issue.


And my guess is that you don't care about racist tropes about Asians.


I think that poster was just pointing out the vitriol towards Black people coming from the Asian community.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?


I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.


If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.


Plenty of people are upset about that of all races.

The Asians aren’t doing that because if they did, that would put them up against white mommy and daddy. That’s the last thing they want us to do. As an earlier poster said, they want to assimilate.


It's more than that - given the relatively high % of Asians in elite colleges, they figure that their own children will benefit from legacy preferences. The reason that white and asian people hate affirmative action is because they do not benefit. They have no problem with preferential admissions policies as long as it helps them (and also don't help groups they deem undesirable).


This is important. There is an undercurrent at TJ of parents who have no future potential TJ applicants but who are displeased with the admissions changes because part of the appeal of TJ was that their students would not have to attend a school with Black kids and would therefore "be safe".


How shameless can you be? How do you sleep at night? Do you always project this hard onto others? You're exploiting one racial group that you've already damaged in order to attack a different racial group that you don't like. Using an accusation that has no basis in rational fact.

Don't pretend like we don't all know that the TJ changes happened at the behest of a rich White Savior who sends his own kids to private schools. Or that he literally used a fudge factor in his admissions number just to make sure there'd be fewer Asians.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?


I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.


If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.


Plenty of people are upset about that of all races.

The Asians aren’t doing that because if they did, that would put them up against white mommy and daddy. That’s the last thing they want us to do. As an earlier poster said, they want to assimilate.


It's more than that - given the relatively high % of Asians in elite colleges, they figure that their own children will benefit from legacy preferences. The reason that white and asian people hate affirmative action is because they do not benefit. They have no problem with preferential admissions policies as long as it helps them (and also don't help groups they deem undesirable).


This is important. There is an undercurrent at TJ of parents who have no future potential TJ applicants but who are displeased with the admissions changes because part of the appeal of TJ was that their students would not have to attend a school with Black kids and would therefore "be safe".


How shameless can you be? How do you sleep at night? Do you always project this hard onto others? You're exploiting one racial group that you've already damaged in order to attack a different racial group that you don't like. Using an accusation that has no basis in rational fact.

Don't pretend like we don't all know that the TJ changes happened at the behest of a rich White Savior who sends his own kids to private schools. Or that he literally used a fudge factor in his admissions number just to make sure there'd be fewer Asians.

If the parents have such hostility towards Black and brown people, to the kids at TJ treat them the same way at school?
Anonymous
Unfortunately yes. You haven’t seen the other threads in AAP?
Anonymous
Where on earth did this $1,000 sneaker thing start up? I tend to think of myself as fairly plugged on on school views around TJ and other county issues - but the whole $1,000 sneaker thing is new to me!

Is this just like whining about Obama phones only on feet?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately yes. You haven’t seen the other threads in AAP?

So Asians are are trying to keep Black and brown kids out of TJ/AAP because they think they are taking spots from Asian students, Asian student’s have the same vitriol towards Black and Brown kids at school in TJ/AAP and we have people under this topic trying to convince Black and Brown people to speak out against the county’s initiative to be more inclusive. GTFOH.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Where on earth did this $1,000 sneaker thing start up? I tend to think of myself as fairly plugged on on school views around TJ and other county issues - but the whole $1,000 sneaker thing is new to me!

Is this just like whining about Obama phones only on feet?

Why are they worried about what somebody else’s shoes cost anyway?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where on earth did this $1,000 sneaker thing start up? I tend to think of myself as fairly plugged on on school views around TJ and other county issues - but the whole $1,000 sneaker thing is new to me!

Is this just like whining about Obama phones only on feet?

Why are they worried about what somebody else’s shoes cost anyway?

Because the malicious liberal racists like you claim they need a favor from a racist policy because they couldn't afford the internet access!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where on earth did this $1,000 sneaker thing start up? I tend to think of myself as fairly plugged on on school views around TJ and other county issues - but the whole $1,000 sneaker thing is new to me!

Is this just like whining about Obama phones only on feet?

Why are they worried about what somebody else’s shoes cost anyway?

Because the malicious liberal racists like you claim they need a favor from a racist policy because they couldn't afford the internet access!


These days high speed internet costs around $50 per month.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.


Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.


These points are frequently brought up that anyone can seek extra supplements if they actually valued education and were motivated to succeed.

The real difficulty we have in Fairfax is that our URM/high-poverty populations come from third-world countries like Central America, eastern Africa, and the Middle-East. They come and live here, but they aren't living in the same world as the assimilated population. We in Fairfax County are very different than, say, Wyoming, where both the rich and poor are mostly white and have similar cultural upbringing and values.

There doesn't even need to be gatekeeping because they aren't trying to get into the gate because they don't even know a gate exists. That's the unfortunate reality that FCPS wants to address.


Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.


Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.


These points are frequently brought up that anyone can seek extra supplements if they actually valued education and were motivated to succeed.

The real difficulty we have in Fairfax is that our URM/high-poverty populations come from third-world countries like Central America, eastern Africa, and the Middle-East. They come and live here, but they aren't living in the same world as the assimilated population. We in Fairfax County are very different than, say, Wyoming, where both the rich and poor are mostly white and have similar cultural upbringing and values.

There doesn't even need to be gatekeeping because they aren't trying to get into the gate because they don't even know a gate exists. That's the unfortunate reality that FCPS wants to address.


Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,


Boom, mic drop! One can't become educated if they do not put much value on education.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.


Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.


These points are frequently brought up that anyone can seek extra supplements if they actually valued education and were motivated to succeed.

The real difficulty we have in Fairfax is that our URM/high-poverty populations come from third-world countries like Central America, eastern Africa, and the Middle-East. They come and live here, but they aren't living in the same world as the assimilated population. We in Fairfax County are very different than, say, Wyoming, where both the rich and poor are mostly white and have similar cultural upbringing and values.

There doesn't even need to be gatekeeping because they aren't trying to get into the gate because they don't even know a gate exists. That's the unfortunate reality that FCPS wants to address.


Nope not buying this at all. What you see today - lots of successful Asian students who come from successful Asian families - is the result of those families having grown up with parents who came here from Asian countries and were poor. They had parents who worked at menial and low income jobs and were often the subject of ridicule and taunts because they spoke poor English and looked different. That was Fairfax county in the 70s/80s. All those parents knew was go to school, work hard, get the best grades, go to the best school, education is the way up. Over time their kids success translated into opportunities and more families saw this and told their kids this was the ticket to a better future.

We keep creating programs to help students and we keep insisting that the problem is their parents job, their background, the achievement gap, the way the tests are worded, minimum wage, not enough wages, the police, and every single other thing and the answer isn't in any of those things. Families and the communities those families live in have to value education so much and value the chance for a better future, that they put education as the biggest and most important value in their everyday life. The resources are there. The opportunities are there. But to see them and realize them one has to be willing to look for them at the sake of other things like sports, shopping, beauty, recreation, tv, video games,


The bolded is the type of Asian student that many people think of when they think of TJ. This is an inspiring story and one that certainly exists in the TJ community - but it is a very small percentage of the "Asian" TJ demographic. Additionally, these families - while there is a population center in Annandale - are relatively well-spread out amongst Northern Virginia and are not targeted by the TJ admissions changes. Indeed, they may benefit from them because of the impact on other demographics.

The far larger portion of the "Asian" TJ demographic consists of very affluent, well-educated, and relatively recent immigrants, mostly from India. These families came to the Northern Virginia area specifically for the combination of access to TJ and the Dulles tech boom about 10-15 years ago. They quickly consolidated into housing and worship communities and are concentrated heavily in Herndon, Chantilly, Ashburn, and South Riding. It is a matter of common understanding at TJ that these communities are extremely invested in TJ and academic prestige as a whole and work very hard to position themselves and their friends' children for the TJ admissions process from an early age - even during pregnancy.

It's beyond obvious to any sophisticated observer of the TJ admissions situation that these families - not the Chinese or Koreans or Vietnamese - are the ones who are targeted by the admissions policy changes. Different people can fall on different sides of the discussion of whether or not that's a positive, but that's the reality of the situation and ignoring it is silly.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?


I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.


If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.


Plenty of people are upset about that of all races.

The Asians aren’t doing that because if they did, that would put them up against white mommy and daddy. That’s the last thing they want us to do. As an earlier poster said, they want to assimilate.


It's more than that - given the relatively high % of Asians in elite colleges, they figure that their own children will benefit from legacy preferences. The reason that white and asian people hate affirmative action is because they do not benefit. They have no problem with preferential admissions policies as long as it helps them (and also don't help groups they deem undesirable).


This is important. There is an undercurrent at TJ of parents who have no future potential TJ applicants but who are displeased with the admissions changes because part of the appeal of TJ was that their students would not have to attend a school with Black kids and would therefore "be safe".


How shameless can you be? How do you sleep at night? Do you always project this hard onto others? You're exploiting one racial group that you've already damaged in order to attack a different racial group that you don't like. Using an accusation that has no basis in rational fact.

Don't pretend like we don't all know that the TJ changes happened at the behest of a rich White Savior who sends his own kids to private schools. Or that he literally used a fudge factor in his admissions number just to make sure there'd be fewer Asians.

If the parents have such hostility towards Asian people, to the kids at TJ treat them the same way at school?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?


I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.


If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.


Plenty of people are upset about that of all races.

The Asians aren’t doing that because if they did, that would put them up against white mommy and daddy. That’s the last thing they want us to do. As an earlier poster said, they want to assimilate.


It's more than that - given the relatively high % of Asians in elite colleges, they figure that their own children will benefit from legacy preferences. The reason that white and asian people hate affirmative action is because they do not benefit. They have no problem with preferential admissions policies as long as it helps them (and also don't help groups they deem undesirable).


This is important. There is an undercurrent at TJ of parents who have no future potential TJ applicants but who are displeased with the admissions changes because part of the appeal of TJ was that their students would not have to attend a school with Black kids and would therefore "be safe".


How shameless can you be? How do you sleep at night? Do you always project this hard onto others? You're exploiting one racial group that you've already damaged in order to attack a different racial group that you don't like. Using an accusation that has no basis in rational fact.

Don't pretend like we don't all know that the TJ changes happened at the behest of a rich White Savior who sends his own kids to private schools. Or that he literally used a fudge factor in his admissions number just to make sure there'd be fewer Asians.

If the parents have such hostility towards Asian people, to the kids at TJ treat them the same way at school?


Asian (and especially South Asian) students are the plurality groups at the school, and thus they set the culture and the tone of what goes on there. The students are generally very open about the behaviors and prejudices of their parents and generally speaking, students are not held responsible for their parents' embarrassing attitudes because they are quite pervasive - for example, comparing to see whose parent said the most racist thing. It's a thing TJ students joke about fairly comfortably within the walls of the school building.
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