What’s wrong with William & Mary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like PP is arguing that W&M is not UVA or any of the other 10 state schools with beautiful campuses. Never mind the other State schools with un beautiful campuses (of which there are many). Nothing will make W&M that school. It’s more like a SLAC. But if you don’t like that don’t go there. It’s not difficult.
Some students from Virginia are going there because it’s inexpensive for the education and contact with professors. Strange idea I know.

That's good, at least your post is a contribution to the point of this thread. Others are simply complaining about any criticism of W&M for some reason, as if they aren't in a thread that specifically tries to explain the shortfalls of W&M.

A thread with the title "What's wrong with William & Mary?" is really just a set up for trolls. Happens all the time on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Charlottesville is nice, but the Downtown area is not as described by the frequent poster here. I drive there and most UVA students would be taking the trolley rather than walking. The Corner has some nice spots and is convenient for many, but isn't like Ann Arbor or 6th Street by any stretch. If you live over past the football stadium, a couple of places there like Durty Nelly's on JPA would be more convenient. My favorite part of Charlottesville wasn't actually Charlottesville. I loved the Blue Ridge area about 20 miles to the West. The scenery is beautiful and there are many wineries there now. Not sure how many undergraduates go there due to cost and age. The thing I liked least about Charlottesville, and I'm sure this isn't unique to me, is 29 North. A lot of the shopping is there, and the biggest movie theater, but you'll be driving and not walking. It is unfortunate from an urban planning perspective.

To each his own. I'd go to W&M undergrad again if I had it to do over.

That is actually SMART urban planning. The big box stores that need giant plots of land and parking lots are all relegated to the highway on the north side of town. University Avenue/Main Street is mostly small businesses - the only chains I can think of on Main Street are Starbucks, CVS, and some banks. Everything else is a shop or restaurant owned by a local. It's awesome.

What is the with movie theater mentions in this thread? Is there some movie theater ratio akin to the Waffle House Index?

I am about to make a very important point, so please pay attention: there is a Wawa within close walking distance of campus.

LOL my ex was living in Williamsburg when this opened. It was a VERY BIG DEAL when Wawa opened. It's open 24 hours, so it becomes a de-facto afterparty spot.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the town of Williamsburg and it's amenities: the Wawa is the place to hang late at night 'cuz there isn't much else to do or walk to.

Love the school and the academics, but W'burg absolutely sucks as a college town. Great place to send your kid if you want them to study and not blow their tuition dollars on partying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Charlottesville is nice, but the Downtown area is not as described by the frequent poster here. I drive there and most UVA students would be taking the trolley rather than walking. The Corner has some nice spots and is convenient for many, but isn't like Ann Arbor or 6th Street by any stretch. If you live over past the football stadium, a couple of places there like Durty Nelly's on JPA would be more convenient. My favorite part of Charlottesville wasn't actually Charlottesville. I loved the Blue Ridge area about 20 miles to the West. The scenery is beautiful and there are many wineries there now. Not sure how many undergraduates go there due to cost and age. The thing I liked least about Charlottesville, and I'm sure this isn't unique to me, is 29 North. A lot of the shopping is there, and the biggest movie theater, but you'll be driving and not walking. It is unfortunate from an urban planning perspective.

To each his own. I'd go to W&M undergrad again if I had it to do over.

That is actually SMART urban planning. The big box stores that need giant plots of land and parking lots are all relegated to the highway on the north side of town. University Avenue/Main Street is mostly small businesses - the only chains I can think of on Main Street are Starbucks, CVS, and some banks. Everything else is a shop or restaurant owned by a local. It's awesome.

What is the with movie theater mentions in this thread? Is there some movie theater ratio akin to the Waffle House Index?

I am about to make a very important point, so please pay attention: there is a Wawa within close walking distance of campus.

Strip malls are SMART urban planning? Anyone who knows Charlottesville knows that they could never agree on a bypass due to political reasons. The people who own property on 29 North don't want traffic moving away from them. The people whose land would be taken for a bypass were NIMBYs. The county was happy to pull real estate taxes out of the city and succeeded wildly in doing so. If cities weren't independent of counties in Virginia, it might have turned out different. You can see areas where they are trying to interject new urban into 29 North like Shops at Stonefields, but it is awfully late now. They didn't have to have the big box stores Downtown. That isn't the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it odd none of my son's friends from various high schools in the area had no interest in applying to W&M. Many of them chose in state schools (UVA, VT and JMU).
W&M is such a highly regarded school and it is so surprising to me.

W&M is hard, not fun, and doesn't have hot chicks.

It's not hard to understand from the viewpoint of a 18 year old boy. And it doesn't have enough sheer national/international preftige to compensate for the above attributes.

I think this is very much true. W&M is a very good, rigorous and some would say 'hard' school. Virginians and the few people who know about it consider it to be a great, rigorous school.

It's also a 'boring' school compared to the large publics like Michigan, and even compared to the top privates like Notre Dame, Dartmouth, etc.

Problem is, it doesn't have the widespread prestige outside of Virginia and throughout the country and throughout the world that schools like U. Chicago and Johns Hopkins - two supposedly terribly boring and hard schools - have.

For example, UVA is generally considered to be an easier school to do well in than W&M. And UVA is certainly considered a party school. But UVA has far more reach across the country and has far more top firms and employers recruit from their career fair than W&M.

Top investment and private equity firms, top tech firms, etc. don't come to W&M career fairs and don't target W&M students. If they get into these firms they do so through their own networks, not through the school's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Charlottesville is nice, but the Downtown area is not as described by the frequent poster here. I drive there and most UVA students would be taking the trolley rather than walking. The Corner has some nice spots and is convenient for many, but isn't like Ann Arbor or 6th Street by any stretch. If you live over past the football stadium, a couple of places there like Durty Nelly's on JPA would be more convenient. My favorite part of Charlottesville wasn't actually Charlottesville. I loved the Blue Ridge area about 20 miles to the West. The scenery is beautiful and there are many wineries there now. Not sure how many undergraduates go there due to cost and age. The thing I liked least about Charlottesville, and I'm sure this isn't unique to me, is 29 North. A lot of the shopping is there, and the biggest movie theater, but you'll be driving and not walking. It is unfortunate from an urban planning perspective.

To each his own. I'd go to W&M undergrad again if I had it to do over.

That is actually SMART urban planning. The big box stores that need giant plots of land and parking lots are all relegated to the highway on the north side of town. University Avenue/Main Street is mostly small businesses - the only chains I can think of on Main Street are Starbucks, CVS, and some banks. Everything else is a shop or restaurant owned by a local. It's awesome.

What is the with movie theater mentions in this thread? Is there some movie theater ratio akin to the Waffle House Index?

I am about to make a very important point, so please pay attention: there is a Wawa within close walking distance of campus.

LOL my ex was living in Williamsburg when this opened. It was a VERY BIG DEAL when Wawa opened. It's open 24 hours, so it becomes a de-facto afterparty spot.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the town of Williamsburg and it's amenities: the Wawa is the place to hang late at night 'cuz there isn't much else to do or walk to.

Love the school and the academics, but W'burg absolutely sucks as a college town. Great place to send your kid if you want them to study and not blow their tuition dollars on partying.

There was a convenience store there long before Wawa. Not sure why any of this makes it on a thread other than someone just insists on their subjective view even if others don't agree.

[Anonymous]

I have also heard that many of the top investment, tech firms, etc... recruit more heavily out of UVA and VT then W&M for business majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it odd none of my son's friends from various high schools in the area had no interest in applying to W&M. Many of them chose in state schools (UVA, VT and JMU).
W&M is such a highly regarded school and it is so surprising to me.

W&M is hard, not fun, and doesn't have hot chicks.

It's not hard to understand from the viewpoint of a 18 year old boy. And it doesn't have enough sheer national/international preftige to compensate for the above attributes.

I think this is very much true. W&M is a very good, rigorous and some would say 'hard' school. Virginians and the few people who know about it consider it to be a great, rigorous school.

It's also a 'boring' school compared to the large publics like Michigan, and even compared to the top privates like Notre Dame, Dartmouth, etc.

Problem is, it doesn't have the widespread prestige outside of Virginia and throughout the country and throughout the world that schools like U. Chicago and Johns Hopkins - two supposedly terribly boring and hard schools - have.

For example, UVA is generally considered to be an easier school to do well in than W&M. And UVA is certainly considered a party school. But UVA has far more reach across the country and has far more top firms and employers recruit from their career fair than W&M.

Top investment and private equity firms, top tech firms, etc. don't come to W&M career fairs and don't target W&M students. If they get into these firms they do so through their own networks, not through the school's.

Whoever you are, you are fact-free and bias-rich.

Undergraduate graduates First/Next destination reports for 2018 (on websites - last ones available and snapshot at 6 months after graduation):

UVA 2018: 65% working; 17% still looking; 16% continuing education; 1% volunteering; 1% military; 1% not seeking.
W&M 2018: 75% working; 5% still looking; 15% continuing education; 2% working part time; 2% pursuing grad school; 2% other.

Both are fine schools but should have more STEM majors for the way national hiring trends have been going.

Average UVA GPA in 2013: 3.32. Average W&M GPA in 2014: 3.33 gradeinflation.com

[Anonymous]

I have gone to a variety of universities in my life. I have had the school placed in the middle of a residential area, where the social life was non-existent and the shopping was at 7-11 (Florida Tech).

I then went to the large state school where the school defined the town. There were multiple bars that catered to students and were alway crowded. This was at Virginia Tech. But, I quickly noticed the people that always partied were not the people that did well in class. I found myself spending much of my free time studying.

I went to grad school in Binghamton. That is a lousy college town. There is nothing walking distance from the university (literally). And the town defined rustbelt.

When we walk through Williamsburg, I noticed that it felt comfortable. What my daughter noticed was that most of the people she met were smart, hard working and funny. They did not need someone else defining fun for them. I can not comment on Williamsburg as a college town. But, I am paying 40K a year for my DD to learn. She could be going to Aims, Bloomington, East Lansing, Blacksburg, or Newark. Choosing Williamsburg was a no brainer, not because of Williamsburg but because of W. & M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have also heard that many of the top investment, tech firms, etc... recruit more heavily out of UVA and VT then W&M for business majors.

Tech firms are not looking for business majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Charlottesville is nice, but the Downtown area is not as described by the frequent poster here. I drive there and most UVA students would be taking the trolley rather than walking. The Corner has some nice spots and is convenient for many, but isn't like Ann Arbor or 6th Street by any stretch. If you live over past the football stadium, a couple of places there like Durty Nelly's on JPA would be more convenient. My favorite part of Charlottesville wasn't actually Charlottesville. I loved the Blue Ridge area about 20 miles to the West. The scenery is beautiful and there are many wineries there now. Not sure how many undergraduates go there due to cost and age. The thing I liked least about Charlottesville, and I'm sure this isn't unique to me, is 29 North. A lot of the shopping is there, and the biggest movie theater, but you'll be driving and not walking. It is unfortunate from an urban planning perspective.

To each his own. I'd go to W&M undergrad again if I had it to do over.

That is actually SMART urban planning. The big box stores that need giant plots of land and parking lots are all relegated to the highway on the north side of town. University Avenue/Main Street is mostly small businesses - the only chains I can think of on Main Street are Starbucks, CVS, and some banks. Everything else is a shop or restaurant owned by a local. It's awesome.

What is the with movie theater mentions in this thread? Is there some movie theater ratio akin to the Waffle House Index?

I am about to make a very important point, so please pay attention: there is a Wawa within close walking distance of campus.

LOL my ex was living in Williamsburg when this opened. It was a VERY BIG DEAL when Wawa opened. It's open 24 hours, so it becomes a de-facto afterparty spot.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the town of Williamsburg and it's amenities: the Wawa is the place to hang late at night 'cuz there isn't much else to do or walk to.

Love the school and the academics, but W'burg absolutely sucks as a college town. Great place to send your kid if you want them to study and not blow their tuition dollars on partying.

What it actually tells me is that you’re overinvested in telling stories about an alleged “ex.”

[Anonymous]

PP tech firms do recruit for business majors.
Although I think the post meant to say that top business firms recruit business majors at UVA while they don't recruit at all at W&M, and top tech companies recruit CS majors at UVA and VT but don't recruit at all at W&M.

A large part of it of course is that W&M is a small enough school that its not worth making the trip there for businesses to recruit vs. UVA or VT.

But that does not change the fact that the lack of top firm recruitment is a negative, especially for such a hard, rigorous and 'boring' school.
You work hard for 4 years and trade having fun for your future, then you at least want top-notch recruitment and placement for top jobs.

[Anonymous]

For example all the Ivies, Duke, Chicago, Northwestern etc. are similar undergraduate size to W&M but all the top finance, consulting and tech firms recruit from those colleges and come to campus with on-campus interviews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP tech firms do recruit for business majors.
Although I think the post meant to say that top business firms recruit business majors at UVA while they don't recruit at all at W&M, and top tech companies recruit CS majors at UVA and VT but don't recruit at all at W&M.

A large part of it of course is that W&M is a small enough school that its not worth making the trip there for businesses to recruit vs. UVA or VT.

But that does not change the fact that the lack of top firm recruitment is a negative, especially for such a hard, rigorous and 'boring' school.
You work hard for 4 years and trade having fun for your future, then you at least want top-notch recruitment and placement for top jobs.

Again, unfair with no data. W&M's Mason business school ranks 14th in the country out of all business schools for 5 year ROI.

https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/2020/02/17/poetsquants-top-value-business-schools/

W&M Mason ranks 21st nationally in the Poets and Quants undergraduate ranking. It ranked 9th in the "Employment" category of the ranking. Poets and Quants is really the site for BBAs and MBAs these days.

https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/2019/12/20/wharton-again-tops-pqs-best-undergraduate-b-schools-of-2020/4/

I'll be the first to give kudos to UVA for undergraduate business. They are #3 in Poets and Quants. At the undergraduate level, after Wharton, there isn't a clear #2 and UVA is right there with a select few schools. The thing you have to remember about both UVA and W&M business is you have to apply in your second year. They aren't direct admits, unlike a number of other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have gone to a variety of universities in my life. I have had the school placed in the middle of a residential area, where the social life was non-existent and the shopping was at 7-11 (Florida Tech).

I then went to the large state school where the school defined the town. There were multiple bars that catered to students and were alway crowded. This was at Virginia Tech. But, I quickly noticed the people that always partied were not the people that did well in class. I found myself spending much of my free time studying.

I went to grad school in Binghamton. That is a lousy college town. There is nothing walking distance from the university (literally). And the town defined rustbelt.

When we walk through Williamsburg, I noticed that it felt comfortable. What my daughter noticed was that most of the people she met were smart, hard working and funny. They did not need someone else defining fun for them. I can not comment on Williamsburg as a college town. But, I am paying 40K a year for my DD to learn. She could be going to Aims, Bloomington, East Lansing, Blacksburg, or Newark. Choosing Williamsburg was a no brainer, not because of Williamsburg but because of W. & M.

That's the best line in about the last 10 pages here.

[Anonymous]

PP thats also the line that solidifies what's been said in this thread for the past 10 pages, that Williamsburg is a terrible town and you have to make your own 'fun'.