I’m a liberal democrat horrified by the current Dr Seuss drama and normalization of censorship

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The real problem is that you think the real problem is whatever you think the real problem is”

You guys are insufferable.

There’s no problem with a publisher deciding it doesn’t want to sell a certain book anymore. Literally happens every day. If you’re concerned that our culture doesn’t value racist stereotypes anymore, then I can’t help you. The world has changed. Consumers don’t want to buy certain things anymore, publishers don’t publish it. That’s how free markets and free speech work.

The apparently want to buy these books, so consumer tastes haven't really changed, the publisher decided to change it for them. Why do you even care that people are talking about these books? Were you alive for New Coke? When Coca Cola told people their tastes had changed and people said, "Hell no it didn't!" It was national news for months until it changed back.

And this too is how free speech works. Pretty damn disingenuous to see it's free speech to withdraw a book but not free speech to complain about it.

I don’t think there’s a critical market segment that will change the publisher’s mind on this, but if there is, that’s fine. Publishers exercise this kind of discretion every single day. Only certain kinds of people seem to get upset about decisions based on the desire not to propagate racist stereotypes—racists. You might be one.

The only people who think this way are racist totalitarians. There appears to be a critical need for appeasement of the racist totalitarian demographic.

You are right. Because the “solution” is to mandate publishers publish everything anyone wants. That’s not freedom.

Your argument is a disingenuous attempt to deny your complicity in supporting publishing elites denying our rights to read books. And you know it.

Uh no, I’m not the one being disingenuous. Choosing not to publish material you find harmful or distasteful is a freedom that I care very deeply about.

What you really want is people not to see what YOU don't want them to see. You are not defending publisher's rights. Why would you even care about this stupid children's book or this two bit publisher?

I want all publishers to be free from any government interference. Let markets decide. And I care because it’s of professional and academic interest to me. Why do you care that a publisher is deciding to pull offensive material? Do you think you’re losing something of value?

Sorry no. You can't win this argument. Frustrating right? You are using a subjective standard and so am I. Because everyone thinks I don't know how publishing works, including, apparently you. Or thinks I am right winger. Or has some other motive. They believe everything except my actual motives even when I tell them.

If you that bit frustrating, consider how other people feel when you use bad faith arguments assuming things like I want to force publishers to publish. Nobody anywhere said that. I sure didn't.

What do you want then? Because it’s not clear. You are mad that the publisher is doing this because why? And what is the alternative?

[Anonymous]

“Whaaaa. Someone thinks something is racist that I don’t. I want to pantomime Chinese people without guilt! Now I can’t do that because people are starting to understand that it’s hurtful!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The real problem is that you think the real problem is whatever you think the real problem is”

You guys are insufferable.

There’s no problem with a publisher deciding it doesn’t want to sell a certain book anymore. Literally happens every day. If you’re concerned that our culture doesn’t value racist stereotypes anymore, then I can’t help you. The world has changed. Consumers don’t want to buy certain things anymore, publishers don’t publish it. That’s how free markets and free speech work.

The apparently want to buy these books, so consumer tastes haven't really changed, the publisher decided to change it for them. Why do you even care that people are talking about these books? Were you alive for New Coke? When Coca Cola told people their tastes had changed and people said, "Hell no it didn't!" It was national news for months until it changed back.

And this too is how free speech works. Pretty damn disingenuous to see it's free speech to withdraw a book but not free speech to complain about it.

I don’t think there’s a critical market segment that will change the publisher’s mind on this, but if there is, that’s fine. Publishers exercise this kind of discretion every single day. Only certain kinds of people seem to get upset about decisions based on the desire not to propagate racist stereotypes—racists. You might be one.

The only people who think this way are racist totalitarians. There appears to be a critical need for appeasement of the racist totalitarian demographic.

You are right. Because the “solution” is to mandate publishers publish everything anyone wants. That’s not freedom.

Your argument is a disingenuous attempt to deny your complicity in supporting publishing elites denying our rights to read books. And you know it.

Uh no, I’m not the one being disingenuous. Choosing not to publish material you find harmful or distasteful is a freedom that I care very deeply about.

What you really want is people not to see what YOU don't want them to see. You are not defending publisher's rights. Why would you even care about this stupid children's book or this two bit publisher?

I want all publishers to be free from any government interference. Let markets decide. And I care because it’s of professional and academic interest to me. Why do you care that a publisher is deciding to pull offensive material? Do you think you’re losing something of value?

Sorry no. You can't win this argument. Frustrating right? You are using a subjective standard and so am I. Because everyone thinks I don't know how publishing works, including, apparently you. Or thinks I am right winger. Or has some other motive. They believe everything except my actual motives even when I tell them.

If you that bit frustrating, consider how other people feel when you use bad faith arguments assuming things like I want to force publishers to publish. Nobody anywhere said that. I sure didn't.

What do you want then? Because it’s not clear. You are mad that the publisher is doing this because why? And what is the alternative?

a) I want the right to complain about something without my motives being questioned each and every time I make any type of complaint.
b) I want some consensus or rational standard for what is racist and what is not because we sure as hell don't have it now.

The alternative is we talk this through, somehow. But that doesn't happen anymore, anywhere. And if people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, so shove it, don't be so surprised next time someone shoves back.

[Anonymous]

“ a)I want the right to complain about something without my motives being questioned each and every time I make any type of complaint.
b) I want some consensus or rational standard for what is racist and what is not because we sure as hell don't have it now.

The alternative is we talk this through, somehow. But that doesn't happen anymore, anywhere. And if people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, so shove it, don't be so surprised next time someone shoves back.“

You sure don’t like free speech. Maybe start with understanding what that means. Expect pushback, expect people to question your motives. Expect people to ask you why you don’t think something is racist if you loudly protest that it isn’t. Seriously. Listen to yourself. You want consensus? Geez. Not gonna happen. So many mental gymnastics because you can’t admit that maybe you were blind.

[Anonymous]

Waaaah why is BIDEN cancelling beloved Dr. Seuss and Aunt Jemima? What's next, Mr Potato Head?

Socialism!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny, none of the whiners in here are defending the actual material.

I am. And I did. IMO it's not racist. Period.

Does that look racist to you?

[Anonymous]

Why is this even in the political forum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“ a)I want the right to complain about something without my motives being questioned each and every time I make any type of complaint.
b) I want some consensus or rational standard for what is racist and what is not because we sure as hell don't have it now.

The alternative is we talk this through, somehow. But that doesn't happen anymore, anywhere. And if people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, so shove it, don't be so surprised next time someone shoves back.“

You sure don’t like free speech. Maybe start with understanding what that means. Expect pushback, expect people to question your motives. Expect people to ask you why you don’t think something is racist if you loudly protest that it isn’t. Seriously. Listen to yourself. You want consensus? Geez. Not gonna happen. So many mental gymnastics because you can’t admit that maybe you were blind.

Seriously, you are full of it. NOBODY was interested in a serious discussion on this thread. And nowhere else too. OF COURSE I expect pushback. And the way shove, you'll get a harder pushback next time. I told you what I want, and still think I didn't mean it. That's your blindness, which you can't admit yourself either. As long as you do that, people will do it to you, worse and worse each time. Where does end? None of you seem to have thought about that. Time for you to self reflect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is this even in the political forum?

OP is feeble-minded and her husband convinced her this is all because of Democrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is this even in the political forum?

Because the culture war wedge issues Republicans contrive have political implications, sadly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny, none of the whiners in here are defending the actual material.

I am. And I did. IMO it's not racist. Period.

Does that look racist to you?

Yes. I think they should recolor it. That's my opinion and I don't have another.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny, none of the whiners in here are defending the actual material.

I am. And I did. IMO it's not racist. Period.

Does that look racist to you?

Yes. I think they should recolor it. That's my opinion and I don't have another.

These are not popular books. The publisher made the practical decision, rather than alter the art.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny, none of the whiners in here are defending the actual material.

I am. And I did. IMO it's not racist. Period.

Does that look racist to you?

Yes. I think they should recolor it. That's my opinion and I don't have another.

Recolor it? To what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ a)I want the right to complain about something without my motives being questioned each and every time I make any type of complaint.
b) I want some consensus or rational standard for what is racist and what is not because we sure as hell don't have it now.

The alternative is we talk this through, somehow. But that doesn't happen anymore, anywhere. And if people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, so shove it, don't be so surprised next time someone shoves back.“

You sure don’t like free speech. Maybe start with understanding what that means. Expect pushback, expect people to question your motives. Expect people to ask you why you don’t think something is racist if you loudly protest that it isn’t. Seriously. Listen to yourself. You want consensus? Geez. Not gonna happen. So many mental gymnastics because you can’t admit that maybe you were blind.

Seriously, you are full of it. NOBODY was interested in a serious discussion on this thread. And nowhere else too. OF COURSE I expect pushback. And the way shove, you'll get a harder pushback next time. I told you what I want, and still think I didn't mean it. That's your blindness, which you can't admit yourself either. As long as you do that, people will do it to you, worse and worse each time. Where does end? None of you seem to have thought about that. Time for you to self reflect.

You don’t seem to understand what I wrote. You said you want to complain without anyone questioning your motives. That’s not how free speech works. You want a consensus on what racism means, also not how freedom of thought works. The books have really questionable and racist content in them, if you’ve even looked. If you have and don’t see it, expect a lot of people to disagree.