I’m a liberal democrat horrified by the current Dr Seuss drama and normalization of censorship

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please include links, people.

This story has multiple headlines on Fox News. That’s why troll op is glomming on to it.

The Dr. Seuss foundation says it will stop publishing several books due to racist stereotypes. It’s pretty stupid and I think the backlash will be pretty significant. That said, this is not due to the government action but because of people with power listening to an increasingly shrill and insane minority. They don’t seem to have any moral compass of their own so they just follow the Twitterati.

I’m OP, not a troll. Before posting here I mentioned this article to my husband (a conservative) and how it bothered me, and he said “well this is exactly what you voted for! You voted to affirm behavior like this”. Which made me very angry, and I turned here for a discussion. As a democrat, I am afraid of the influence this extremely loud minority has. I do not support pulling books from shelves, or re-writing history, or large tech companies silencing opposing or even offensive participants. It just seems like society is going to a weird place, and the corporations are perhaps in a place to censor on behalf of the government, which can claim it has no influence?

But both you and your husband are wrong. Should the Suess Family Enterprises or whatever be FORCED to reproduce its books? If they are making the choice themselves, then it is a private entity making its own decisions.

[Anonymous]

I'm kind of interested in where the OP draws lines. Does OP believe that private companies should be forced to do things that are not in their overall financial interests? Lots of books are no longer published.

[Anonymous]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/03/02/biden-removes-mention-of-dr-seuss-from-read-across-america-day/amp/

Here’s the Dem link: Media covering Biden’s effort to remove Dr Seuss titles from read across America day.

Here’s the thing:

If we’re judging books published decades ago through today’s lens, then should we judge interviews, tweets, sexual harassment, etc. that occurred decades ago through the same lens? Seems like we should, right?

But should we cancel or simply acknowledge, atone and move on?

I think the Seuss books were flagged by outside commentators and they were forced to make the call. I also think it was an easy decision since those books weren’t profitable. I suspect they might have simply offered edits had it been green eggs and ham or the grinch (or another profitable book).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is appalling to me that they are pulling some of Dr. Seuss’s classic children’s books off the shelves because they are potentially offensive. At what point does this cancel culture not become Fahrenheit 451?

I just re-read one of the titles being discontinued, “...Saw it on Mulberry St”, Dr. Seuss’s first children’s book and a wonderful story about imagination. The only potentially offensive line in the whole book is “a Chinese man that eats with sticks”. Is acknowledging that Chinese eat with chopsticks now so offensive that we are banning a book that mentions it? Can any Asians out there please enlighten me and tell me if you’re happy with the choice to remove this classic book from the shelves?

I’m really afraid of what’s going on, and that this kind of move is supported and applauded by the left.

Yeah, support for the ban is all over the Lucy Calkins Writer's and Reader's workshop Facebook pages, which has a lock on a ton of public schools in America. I don't dare post objection--don't wanna get canceled. I am buying up a personal mint copy of the Seuss books that will not be reprinted, as well as the objectionable Babars and Curious George's. I'd like to provide a safe home for them before the burnings begin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please include links, people.

This story has multiple headlines on Fox News. That’s why troll op is glomming on to it.

The Dr. Seuss foundation says it will stop publishing several books due to racist stereotypes. It’s pretty stupid and I think the backlash will be pretty significant. That said, this is not due to the government action but because of people with power listening to an increasingly shrill and insane minority. They don’t seem to have any moral compass of their own so they just follow the Twitterati.

I’m OP, not a troll. Before posting here I mentioned this article to my husband (a conservative) and how it bothered me, and he said “well this is exactly what you voted for! You voted to affirm behavior like this”. Which made me very angry, and I turned here for a discussion. As a democrat, I am afraid of the influence this extremely loud minority has. I do not support pulling books from shelves, or re-writing history, or large tech companies silencing opposing or even offensive participants. It just seems like society is going to a weird place, and the corporations are perhaps in a place to censor on behalf of the government, which can claim it has no influence?

If Trump were President, what would he do to stop this? Sure, he would tweet about it and turn conservative cancel culture against the publisher. But what could he really do to stop it?

Not the OP, but agree let's take this out of the political realm. The important question here IMO is how much do we value free expression and free speech as a society. Even without any government action, major corporations and organizations can act to effectively severely restrict expression and remove a number of historic works from circulation.

Aren't Dr Seuss books in their way significant pieces of art. Do we want any significant works like this effectively removed from the public record. For all our lives things like "Birth of a Nation", "Mein Kampf" etc have been available for people to view or read. We abhor all the sentiments in them but as a society we believed in the value of free expression. Do we want major organizations to decide for us whether these types of works should be available. What if "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" comes up soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please include links, people.

This story has multiple headlines on Fox News. That’s why troll op is glomming on to it.

The Dr. Seuss foundation says it will stop publishing several books due to racist stereotypes. It’s pretty stupid and I think the backlash will be pretty significant. That said, this is not due to the government action but because of people with power listening to an increasingly shrill and insane minority. They don’t seem to have any moral compass of their own so they just follow the Twitterati.

I’m OP, not a troll. Before posting here I mentioned this article to my husband (a conservative) and how it bothered me, and he said “well this is exactly what you voted for! You voted to affirm behavior like this”. Which made me very angry, and I turned here for a discussion. As a democrat, I am afraid of the influence this extremely loud minority has. I do not support pulling books from shelves, or re-writing history, or large tech companies silencing opposing or even offensive participants. It just seems like society is going to a weird place, and the corporations are perhaps in a place to censor on behalf of the government, which can claim it has no influence?

If Trump were President, what would he do to stop this? Sure, he would tweet about it and turn conservative cancel culture against the publisher. But what could he really do to stop it?

OP’s husband, like most conservatives, muddies the water between government action and corporate and social action to keep weak minded people like OP confused and “scared.”

+1 They don't seem to understand what "Free Speech" means in this country.

Yes. YES. And look at waters they are muddying. A publisher deciding not to publish a book is FREE SPEECH. The right is trying to tell people that free speech is censorship. It is 1984 style doublethink.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please include links, people.

This story has multiple headlines on Fox News. That’s why troll op is glomming on to it.

The Dr. Seuss foundation says it will stop publishing several books due to racist stereotypes. It’s pretty stupid and I think the backlash will be pretty significant. That said, this is not due to the government action but because of people with power listening to an increasingly shrill and insane minority. They don’t seem to have any moral compass of their own so they just follow the Twitterati.

The backlash against who, the Dr. Seuss Foundation? Are you saying that the supposed party of individual rights believes that individuals should be compelled to publish their works against their will?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please include links, people.

This story has multiple headlines on Fox News. That’s why troll op is glomming on to it.

The Dr. Seuss foundation says it will stop publishing several books due to racist stereotypes. It’s pretty stupid and I think the backlash will be pretty significant. That said, this is not due to the government action but because of people with power listening to an increasingly shrill and insane minority. They don’t seem to have any moral compass of their own so they just follow the Twitterati.

Funny that Fox was up in arms about the Lorax a few years ago because it was offending loggers. They have reversed their outrage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is appalling to me that they are pulling some of Dr. Seuss’s classic children’s books off the shelves because they are potentially offensive. At what point does this cancel culture not become Fahrenheit 451?

I just re-read one of the titles being discontinued, “...Saw it on Mulberry St”, Dr. Seuss’s first children’s book and a wonderful story about imagination. The only potentially offensive line in the whole book is “a Chinese man that eats with sticks”. Is acknowledging that Chinese eat with chopsticks now so offensive that we are banning a book that mentions it? Can any Asians out there please enlighten me and tell me if you’re happy with the choice to remove this classic book from the shelves?

I’m really afraid of what’s going on, and that this kind of move is supported and applauded by the left.

Yeah, support for the ban is all over the Lucy Calkins Writer's and Reader's workshop Facebook pages, which has a lock on a ton of public schools in America. I don't dare post objection--don't wanna get canceled. I am buying up a personal mint copy of the Seuss books that will not be reprinted, as well as the objectionable Babars and Curious George's. I'd like to provide a safe home for them before the burnings begin.

If you are unwilling to stand up for what you believe in, that is a “you” problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please include links, people.

This story has multiple headlines on Fox News. That’s why troll op is glomming on to it.

The Dr. Seuss foundation says it will stop publishing several books due to racist stereotypes. It’s pretty stupid and I think the backlash will be pretty significant. That said, this is not due to the government action but because of people with power listening to an increasingly shrill and insane minority. They don’t seem to have any moral compass of their own so they just follow the Twitterati.

I’m OP, not a troll. Before posting here I mentioned this article to my husband (a conservative) and how it bothered me, and he said “well this is exactly what you voted for! You voted to affirm behavior like this”. Which made me very angry, and I turned here for a discussion. As a democrat, I am afraid of the influence this extremely loud minority has. I do not support pulling books from shelves, or re-writing history, or large tech companies silencing opposing or even offensive participants. It just seems like society is going to a weird place, and the corporations are perhaps in a place to censor on behalf of the government, which can claim it has no influence?

If Trump were President, what would he do to stop this? Sure, he would tweet about it and turn conservative cancel culture against the publisher. But what could he really do to stop it?

Not the OP, but agree let's take this out of the political realm. The important question here IMO is how much do we value free expression and free speech as a society. Even without any government action, major corporations and organizations can act to effectively severely restrict expression and remove a number of historic works from circulation.

Aren't Dr Seuss books in their way significant pieces of art. Do we want any significant works like this effectively removed from the public record. For all our lives things like "Birth of a Nation", "Mein Kampf" etc have been available for people to view or read. We abhor all the sentiments in them but as a society we believed in the value of free expression. Do we want major organizations to decide for us whether these types of works should be available. What if "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" comes up soon.

If you want to buy the rights and publish it yourself, go for it. The corporations aren't deciding if these books should be published or not. The corporations are deciding if THEY THEMSELVES should publish these books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please include links, people.

This story has multiple headlines on Fox News. That’s why troll op is glomming on to it.

The Dr. Seuss foundation says it will stop publishing several books due to racist stereotypes. It’s pretty stupid and I think the backlash will be pretty significant. That said, this is not due to the government action but because of people with power listening to an increasingly shrill and insane minority. They don’t seem to have any moral compass of their own so they just follow the Twitterati.

The backlash against who, the Dr. Seuss Foundation? Are you saying that the supposed party of individual rights believes that individuals should be compelled to publish their works against their will?

This.

[Anonymous]

I suspect we'll get a Speedy Gonzales case or two, where actual members of the "offended" ethnicity will tell folks that no, they're not really all that offended.

I think the Twitterati are running ahead of the masses on this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please include links, people.

This story has multiple headlines on Fox News. That’s why troll op is glomming on to it.

The Dr. Seuss foundation says it will stop publishing several books due to racist stereotypes. It’s pretty stupid and I think the backlash will be pretty significant. That said, this is not due to the government action but because of people with power listening to an increasingly shrill and insane minority. They don’t seem to have any moral compass of their own so they just follow the Twitterati.

I’m OP, not a troll. Before posting here I mentioned this article to my husband (a conservative) and how it bothered me, and he said “well this is exactly what you voted for! You voted to affirm behavior like this”. Which made me very angry, and I turned here for a discussion. As a democrat, I am afraid of the influence this extremely loud minority has. I do not support pulling books from shelves, or re-writing history, or large tech companies silencing opposing or even offensive participants. It just seems like society is going to a weird place, and the corporations are perhaps in a place to censor on behalf of the government, which can claim it has no influence?

If Trump were President, what would he do to stop this? Sure, he would tweet about it and turn conservative cancel culture against the publisher. But what could he really do to stop it?

Not the OP, but agree let's take this out of the political realm. The important question here IMO is how much do we value free expression and free speech as a society. Even without any government action, major corporations and organizations can act to effectively severely restrict expression and remove a number of historic works from circulation.

Aren't Dr Seuss books in their way significant pieces of art. Do we want any significant works like this effectively removed from the public record. For all our lives things like "Birth of a Nation", "Mein Kampf" etc have been available for people to view or read. We abhor all the sentiments in them but as a society we believed in the value of free expression. Do we want major organizations to decide for us whether these types of works should be available. What if "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" comes up soon.

If you are concerned about removing "historic works from circulation" why don't you explain what should be done? Should every book ever written be published forever? If not, who decides which are worth publishing and which aren't?

[Anonymous]

OP, there are an awful lot of out of print or difficult to find books from the past. Many of these were once popular but fashions change so they are out of print. If they were cancelling all Dr. Suess books because of his racist attitudes, then I'd worry. But cancelling one low volume work tbat most people never heard of is not a big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, there are an awful lot of out of print or difficult to find books from the past. Many of these were once popular but fashions change so they are out of print. If they were cancelling all Dr. Suess books because of his racist attitudes, then I'd worry. But cancelling one low volume work tbat most people never heard of is not a big deal.

Exactly. This is common sense.