Admissions to change at Thomas Jefferson High, and others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More like the un-woke Asians will accept TJ reforms rather than risk boundary changes they don’t like, such as getting moved out of Chantilly or Langley. The strongest correlation in FCPS school demographics, by the way, is the negative correlation between Asian and Black enrollment.

You think black students don’t want to attend schools with Asian students?

Looking at TJ, that probably is correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what about the absolutely brilliant kids who don’t prep, take the admissions exam cold and show initiative and passion when it comes to STEM? Don’t make sweeping generalizations, please.

Those kids do wonderfully at TJ and are usually highly successful in the college admissions process. And they almost always have some other activity that they do, whether it's sports or music or arts or whatever, that they are additionally passionate about. And a lot of them are Asian, too.

Doesn't mean the admissions process shouldn't change significantly to find more of these kids. The school would be a better place with more of them. The resources that parents spend on optimizing the process places a ton of pressure on the kids that they carry around the building.

Lottery system with certain minimum test scores may result in more Asian students at TJ unless the minimum is ridiculous low.

How racist do you have to be to suggest that the minimum would have to be "ridiculous (sic) low" for those students to gain entry to the lottery? For all we know, there could be a solid number of high-potential Black and Hispanic students whose exam scores are lying just under the threshold for the cutoff, and who would have glowing Student Info Sheet responses and teacher recs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I mean, telling kids to do their homework instead of play video games is also an action which is overwhelming taken by parents and impacts the process, but I don't see anyone complaining about that. Or maybe they are and I'm just out of touch?

Big difference between that and spending thousands of dollars for prep classes, demanding they track into STEM activities, gatekeeping those activities through volunteerism....I could go on and on. And again, I don't have a huge problem with parents doing those things (save maybe the gatekeeping piece) - I have a problem with an admissions process that rewards that behavior.

What makes me uneasy about this line of logic is that if we extrapolate one level up, we can then say "we want to keep people who were in TJ out of top colleges, because they clearly had parents who demanded that they go all-in on the application process instead of being content with a base school in a highly-ranked school system; spent huge amounts of money on the technology access so that their kids could get ahead; used the school's imposing name to create exclusionary cliques, etc." As another poster pointed out, it's a sweeping generalization, and unfair to people who are genuinely dedicated students with supportive families.

The school system has decades of history of trying to undermine families who care about education in the name of making schools easy, and maybe I'm wrong, but this just sounds like the latest incarnation of the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More like the un-woke Asians will accept TJ reforms rather than risk boundary changes they don’t like, such as getting moved out of Chantilly or Langley. The strongest correlation in FCPS school demographics, by the way, is the negative correlation between Asian and Black enrollment.

You think black students don’t want to attend schools with Asian students?

Black students don’t usually make those decisions. We do know, of course, that a much larger percentage of Black applicants to TJ are turned away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I mean, telling kids to do their homework instead of play video games is also an action which is overwhelming taken by parents and impacts the process, but I don't see anyone complaining about that. Or maybe they are and I'm just out of touch?

Big difference between that and spending thousands of dollars for prep classes, demanding they track into STEM activities, gatekeeping those activities through volunteerism....I could go on and on. And again, I don't have a huge problem with parents doing those things (save maybe the gatekeeping piece) - I have a problem with an admissions process that rewards that behavior.

What makes me uneasy about this line of logic is that if we extrapolate one level up, we can then say "we want to keep people who were in TJ out of top colleges, because they clearly had parents who demanded that they go all-in on the application process instead of being content with a base school in a highly-ranked school system; spent huge amounts of money on the technology access so that their kids could get ahead; used the school's imposing name to create exclusionary cliques, etc." As another poster pointed out, it's a sweeping generalization, and unfair to people who are genuinely dedicated students with supportive families.

The school system has decades of history of trying to undermine families who care about education in the name of making schools easy, and maybe I'm wrong, but this just sounds like the latest incarnation of the same.

You can dispense with the “maybe” in the last paragraph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what about the absolutely brilliant kids who don’t prep, take the admissions exam cold and show initiative and passion when it comes to STEM? Don’t make sweeping generalizations, please.

Those kids do wonderfully at TJ and are usually highly successful in the college admissions process. And they almost always have some other activity that they do, whether it's sports or music or arts or whatever, that they are additionally passionate about. And a lot of them are Asian, too.

Doesn't mean the admissions process shouldn't change significantly to find more of these kids. The school would be a better place with more of them. The resources that parents spend on optimizing the process places a ton of pressure on the kids that they carry around the building.

Lottery system with certain minimum test scores may result in more Asian students at TJ unless the minimum is ridiculous low.

How racist do you have to be to suggest that the minimum would have to be "ridiculous (sic) low" for those students to gain entry to the lottery? For all we know, there could be a solid number of high-potential Black and Hispanic students whose exam scores are lying just under the threshold for the cutoff, and who would have glowing Student Info Sheet responses and teacher recs.

The problem is most of them will not apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I mean, telling kids to do their homework instead of play video games is also an action which is overwhelming taken by parents and impacts the process, but I don't see anyone complaining about that. Or maybe they are and I'm just out of touch?

Big difference between that and spending thousands of dollars for prep classes, demanding they track into STEM activities, gatekeeping those activities through volunteerism....I could go on and on. And again, I don't have a huge problem with parents doing those things (save maybe the gatekeeping piece) - I have a problem with an admissions process that rewards that behavior.

What makes me uneasy about this line of logic is that if we extrapolate one level up, we can then say "we want to keep people who were in TJ out of top colleges, because they clearly had parents who demanded that they go all-in on the application process instead of being content with a base school in a highly-ranked school system; spent huge amounts of money on the technology access so that their kids could get ahead; used the school's imposing name to create exclusionary cliques, etc." As another poster pointed out, it's a sweeping generalization, and unfair to people who are genuinely dedicated students with supportive families.

The school system has decades of history of trying to undermine families who care about education in the name of making schools easy, and maybe I'm wrong, but this just sounds like the latest incarnation of the same.

I think that's a very reasonable and cogent argument in the other direction - thank you for that.

Right now, if you're a brilliant STEM-capable kid with many passions and interests and the first time you hear about TJ is at the 8th grade information session - or even the same session in 7th grade - you're going to be at an enormous disadvantage in the process. It's going to be really hard for you to work as quickly on the Quant-Q - where time is a major factor - as the kid who has been in prep classes. It's going to be really hard for you to give answers that the Admissions Committee likes on the SIS, because you haven't artificially squeezed yourself into Science Olympiad or Odyssey of the Mind for the last few years.

And I just don't think that's right. I think the process can be adjusted so that participation in those activities can be a plus, but so can participation in other activities. It can be adjusted so that it's not a huge advantage to have spent years spending money prepping for exams.

Again, THANK YOU for the reasoned argument. I think we probably agree on a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I mean, telling kids to do their homework instead of play video games is also an action which is overwhelming taken by parents and impacts the process, but I don't see anyone complaining about that. Or maybe they are and I'm just out of touch?

Big difference between that and spending thousands of dollars for prep classes, demanding they track into STEM activities, gatekeeping those activities through volunteerism....I could go on and on. And again, I don't have a huge problem with parents doing those things (save maybe the gatekeeping piece) - I have a problem with an admissions process that rewards that behavior.

What makes me uneasy about this line of logic is that if we extrapolate one level up, we can then say "we want to keep people who were in TJ out of top colleges, because they clearly had parents who demanded that they go all-in on the application process instead of being content with a base school in a highly-ranked school system; spent huge amounts of money on the technology access so that their kids could get ahead; used the school's imposing name to create exclusionary cliques, etc." As another poster pointed out, it's a sweeping generalization, and unfair to people who are genuinely dedicated students with supportive families.

The school system has decades of history of trying to undermine families who care about education in the name of making schools easy, and maybe I'm wrong, but this just sounds like the latest incarnation of the same.

You can dispense with the “maybe” in the last paragraph.

Um....ok?

[Anonymous]

Regarding TJ's low FARMS number, that is not representative of the actual low income population. Asians are very proud people who don't tend to accept handouts. I'm pretty sure many Asians in NoVa are low income, but they rely on each other and hard work to survive rather than government assistance. This is where the drive comes from to channel all of their energy to their kids to get out of poverty through education. Most Asians would rather die than accept a handout. Second and third generation Asian Americans don't place as high a value on TJ because they have other options.

[Anonymous]

There is little the defenders of the current defenders of TJ admissions have said that weren’t said by white supremacists in opposition to school integration in the 1960s. The casual racism on display here is just appalling. I’m ashamed FCPS is still tolerating this in 2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding TJ's low FARMS number, that is not representative of the actual low income population. Asians are very proud people who don't tend to accept handouts. I'm pretty sure many Asians in NoVa are low income, but they rely on each other and hard work to survive rather than government assistance. This is where the drive comes from to channel all of their energy to their kids to get out of poverty through education. Most Asians would rather die than accept a handout. Second and third generation Asian Americans don't place as high a value on TJ because they have other options.

Yes. You are correct. Asians feel any government handout to be a shameful failure.

Asian American

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is little the defenders of the current defenders of TJ admissions have said that weren’t said by white supremacists in opposition to school integration in the 1960s. The casual racism on display here is just appalling. I’m ashamed FCPS is still tolerating this in 2020.

Not comparable. Would you say the same thing about Langley HS? No, you wouldn't because the vast majority is white there. This is pure and simple racism against Asians (who are not responsible for the admissions process, btw).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is little the defenders of the current defenders of TJ admissions have said that weren’t said by white supremacists in opposition to school integration in the 1960s. The casual racism on display here is just appalling. I’m ashamed FCPS is still tolerating this in 2020.

You should also be appalled at the blatant racism against Asian Americans on display in these postings as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding TJ's low FARMS number, that is not representative of the actual low income population. Asians are very proud people who don't tend to accept handouts. I'm pretty sure many Asians in NoVa are low income, but they rely on each other and hard work to survive rather than government assistance. This is where the drive comes from to channel all of their energy to their kids to get out of poverty through education. Most Asians would rather die than accept a handout. Second and third generation Asian Americans don't place as high a value on TJ because they have other options.

That generalization is at odds with oft-stated assertions about the diversity within the Asian community. It seems you’re happy to stereotype when you think it portrays one group favorably.

In any case, there are quite a few schools in FCPS with a lot of Asian kids receiving FARMS. They just aren’t sending many kids to TJ. The top high school pyramids sending kids to TJ are Oakton, McLean, Chantilly and Langley, three of which are indisputably among the wealthiest in the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is little the defenders of the current defenders of TJ admissions have said that weren’t said by white supremacists in opposition to school integration in the 1960s. The casual racism on display here is just appalling. I’m ashamed FCPS is still tolerating this in 2020.

You should also be appalled at the blatant racism against Asian Americans on display in these postings as well.

If you ignore the blatant racism in both directions, what you're left with is a lot of folks talking very calmly about why and how the TJ admissions process and school can and must be improved - and not much else.