Harsh comment on being a Sahm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

DP here and correct, I only care about myself and my family. Don’t you? My working or not working has zero impact on society. That’s true for most careers, unless you’re a world-renowned physician or researcher or something at that level. Which I certainly am not, and I’m assuming you aren’t either just by virtue of the fact that there are very few people in those fields.

How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men, etc., etc. 99% of these professions are not "world-renowned," but I'd like to think that you are glad that you live in a world where millions women have rejected your attitude that their working has zero impact on society.

To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP. Have you been in a public school lately? Behavior is bananas. Largely because of poor parenting at home.

And here we have it, the white SAHM who voted for Trump because we need to make America great again...

I have the exact same opinion of Kids these days. They need a lot more involved parents to improve behavior. I did not vote for Trump.

But do you agree with the opinion that well educated mothers should be SAH even when their kids are teenagers? That's the scary part of PP's take on this. Her solution is to keep women in the home to raise the kids, even when they don't need a full-time SAH.

It isn’t a “should” issue. But I think it’s great if they are- there is value to that. Why are you acting like there is zero value to having a SAHM to older kids?

The point is that there is very little, if any, value to *society* beyond one's own family when a well educated woman spends her time, energy, and talents to benefit only children and spouse. Corollary - there is value to well educated women spending her time, energy, and talents to benefit not just her children and spouse, but to her larger community.
Perhaps there is a sense of noblesse oblige to highly educated WOTH moms, too. They realize that society has invested a lot into her academic and professional training, and that there is a moral obligation to return the favor.
I certainly feel that way, as a woman in a field that is dominated by men. There were so many people and institutions that supported me as I moved up the ranks from college to grad school and then to my chosen profession. If I dropped out to SAH - and I actually LOVE SAH and domestic chores - I know that the young women whom I directly supervise would be disappointed.
I also think that WOTH has been good for my husband and my sons. They are extremely sensitive to the work that goes on inside the house because mom isn't there to take care of it all. Dad and kids have to pitch in.
Finally I hope that my daughter will learn from our marriage that investing in her education is undeniably worth the expense. And that she will learn to choose a spouse who will support her as a mom and as someone who has value beyond household chores.

This!!!
Studies have shown that children with working moms earn more, are more supportive of equitable households and are more successful in their future careers. Men who grew up with sahms are rated as some of the worst partners, likely due to the fact that they think all home stuff = women’s work, and they just lean out. My husband was raised by a working mom and I see the difference in how he behaves vs others in his family with sahms. I’m so grateful to my MIL for working and showing her sons that household chores are gender less.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s the perfect example of Parkinson’s Law - work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion. If you SAH and have 2 hours to make dinner, it will take you 2 hours. WOH parent has 50 minutes to make dinner, so it takes 50 minutes.

It’s like when I call my retired parents and ask them what they have going on the next day, and my mom says “we’re so busy!” even though all they have to do is take the dog to get his nails clipped. That errand will take them all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

DP here and correct, I only care about myself and my family. Don’t you? My working or not working has zero impact on society. That’s true for most careers, unless you’re a world-renowned physician or researcher or something at that level. Which I certainly am not, and I’m assuming you aren’t either just by virtue of the fact that there are very few people in those fields.

How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men, etc., etc. 99% of these professions are not "world-renowned," but I'd like to think that you are glad that you live in a world where millions women have rejected your attitude that their working has zero impact on society.

To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP. Have you been in a public school lately? Behavior is bananas. Largely because of poor parenting at home.

And here we have it, the white SAHM who voted for Trump because we need to make America great again...

Tradwives of the world actively making it worse for women everywhere. Sigh. It’s sad that people actually believe the world would be better off without women in professional positions.

I mean, women will never get ahead because of catty women like you always tearing other women down. Women who shit on SAHMs or housewives are the ultimate “pick me!” girls, but you have your heads so far up your own asses you’ll never even consider contemplating the internalized misogyny which drives your worldview.

Lean into that patriarchy, girlboss. Make the rich male overlords of the world richer and then act shocked and pretend it’s the housewives holding women down

Huh?? Like me? Did you read the post from the pp saying that the world would be better without women doctors, lawyers or business owners? What is wrong with you? THAT is patriarchy, you seem very confused as to the definition.

+1. There are some very misguided posters on this thread who don't seem to grasp the concepts of misogyny or patriarchy.

1. The poster never said or implied that the “world would be better without women doctors, lawyers, or business owners”. (Although I think the world would be significantly better with fewer lawyers of any sex, but that’s neither here nor there.) You’re both putting words into her mouth to fit your narrative. I believe that’s called a straw man.

2. Capitalism IS patriarchy. There is no divorcing the two. Perhaps if you had some free time to read, think, and reflect on big ideas you would understand that.

You must need glasses, that’s what she wrote. If it’s you trying to back track now, it’s not working out very well.

Your condescending comment about having time to read is duly noted, very apropos for this conversation. You make sahms not only look like lazy liars who fluff up tasks to fill their day, but also rude and lacking tact with speaking to women who actually work. Good luck with that.

“To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP.”

This is what she wrote. You’re pretending that statement means she thinks that the world would be better off if women didn’t hold professional positions. (I realize that the person asking her a question posed a rather sensational scenario in which all doctors, lawyers, and businessfolk are men, but at no point did this woman, or any woman in this thread, agree that such a scenario would be best. Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the natural flow of conversation?)

You are either being disingenuous or you are not very bright. Perhaps you need a remedial English class before you bother reading for pleasure or your own personal edification.

(Finally, it’s odd you assume I am a SAHM. It’s even more odd that you expect anyone to address you with tact or respect when you are participating in this random thread for the sole purpose of putting other women down.)

-How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men
-kids would be less of a mess

So this person thinks it’s worth the trade off to eliminate professional women because they aren’t raising their kids well enough. And you are defending them, and calling other women “pick mes” and “girlboss” and being condescending and rude to other posters who don’t agree with you. I think we found the misogynist and it’s not the people defending women’s right to work…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

DP here and correct, I only care about myself and my family. Don’t you? My working or not working has zero impact on society. That’s true for most careers, unless you’re a world-renowned physician or researcher or something at that level. Which I certainly am not, and I’m assuming you aren’t either just by virtue of the fact that there are very few people in those fields.

How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men, etc., etc. 99% of these professions are not "world-renowned," but I'd like to think that you are glad that you live in a world where millions women have rejected your attitude that their working has zero impact on society.

To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP. Have you been in a public school lately? Behavior is bananas. Largely because of poor parenting at home.

And here we have it, the white SAHM who voted for Trump because we need to make America great again...

Tradwives of the world actively making it worse for women everywhere. Sigh. It’s sad that people actually believe the world would be better off without women in professional positions.

I mean, women will never get ahead because of catty women like you always tearing other women down. Women who shit on SAHMs or housewives are the ultimate “pick me!” girls, but you have your heads so far up your own asses you’ll never even consider contemplating the internalized misogyny which drives your worldview.

Lean into that patriarchy, girlboss. Make the rich male overlords of the world richer and then act shocked and pretend it’s the housewives holding women down

Huh?? Like me? Did you read the post from the pp saying that the world would be better without women doctors, lawyers or business owners? What is wrong with you? THAT is patriarchy, you seem very confused as to the definition.

+1. There are some very misguided posters on this thread who don't seem to grasp the concepts of misogyny or patriarchy.

1. The poster never said or implied that the “world would be better without women doctors, lawyers, or business owners”. (Although I think the world would be significantly better with fewer lawyers of any sex, but that’s neither here nor there.) You’re both putting words into her mouth to fit your narrative. I believe that’s called a straw man.

2. Capitalism IS patriarchy. There is no divorcing the two. Perhaps if you had some free time to read, think, and reflect on big ideas you would understand that.

You must need glasses, that’s what she wrote. If it’s you trying to back track now, it’s not working out very well.

Your condescending comment about having time to read is duly noted, very apropos for this conversation. You make sahms not only look like lazy liars who fluff up tasks to fill their day, but also rude and lacking tact with speaking to women who actually work. Good luck with that.

“To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP.”

This is what she wrote. You’re pretending that statement means she thinks that the world would be better off if women didn’t hold professional positions. (I realize that the person asking her a question posed a rather sensational scenario in which all doctors, lawyers, and businessfolk are men, but at no point did this woman, or any woman in this thread, agree that such a scenario would be best. Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the natural flow of conversation?)

You are either being disingenuous or you are not very bright. Perhaps you need a remedial English class before you bother reading for pleasure or your own personal edification.

(Finally, it’s odd you assume I am a SAHM. It’s even more odd that you expect anyone to address you with tact or respect when you are participating in this random thread for the sole purpose of putting other women down.)

-How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men
-kids would be less of a mess

So this person thinks it’s worth the trade off to eliminate professional women because they aren’t raising their kids well enough. And you are defending them, and calling other women “pick mes” and “girlboss” and being condescending and rude to other posters who don’t agree with you. I think we found the misogynist and it’s not the people defending women’s right to work…

Asked and answered. You’re completely unable to follow the flow of a normal conversation.

And now you’re defending women’s “right” to work (in your feeble mind), when what you’ve been advocating for is an *obligation* to work *for pay*, because some part of you knows your high paying, prestigious job is only possible on the backs of “lesser” women you pay a pittance to do all of the tedious tasks of daily family life which you feel are beneath you. GMAFB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

DP here and correct, I only care about myself and my family. Don’t you? My working or not working has zero impact on society. That’s true for most careers, unless you’re a world-renowned physician or researcher or something at that level. Which I certainly am not, and I’m assuming you aren’t either just by virtue of the fact that there are very few people in those fields.

How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men, etc., etc. 99% of these professions are not "world-renowned," but I'd like to think that you are glad that you live in a world where millions women have rejected your attitude that their working has zero impact on society.

To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP. Have you been in a public school lately? Behavior is bananas. Largely because of poor parenting at home.

And here we have it, the white SAHM who voted for Trump because we need to make America great again...

Tradwives of the world actively making it worse for women everywhere. Sigh. It’s sad that people actually believe the world would be better off without women in professional positions.

I mean, women will never get ahead because of catty women like you always tearing other women down. Women who shit on SAHMs or housewives are the ultimate “pick me!” girls, but you have your heads so far up your own asses you’ll never even consider contemplating the internalized misogyny which drives your worldview.

Lean into that patriarchy, girlboss. Make the rich male overlords of the world richer and then act shocked and pretend it’s the housewives holding women down

Huh?? Like me? Did you read the post from the pp saying that the world would be better without women doctors, lawyers or business owners? What is wrong with you? THAT is patriarchy, you seem very confused as to the definition.

+1. There are some very misguided posters on this thread who don't seem to grasp the concepts of misogyny or patriarchy.

1. The poster never said or implied that the “world would be better without women doctors, lawyers, or business owners”. (Although I think the world would be significantly better with fewer lawyers of any sex, but that’s neither here nor there.) You’re both putting words into her mouth to fit your narrative. I believe that’s called a straw man.

2. Capitalism IS patriarchy. There is no divorcing the two. Perhaps if you had some free time to read, think, and reflect on big ideas you would understand that.

You must need glasses, that’s what she wrote. If it’s you trying to back track now, it’s not working out very well.

Your condescending comment about having time to read is duly noted, very apropos for this conversation. You make sahms not only look like lazy liars who fluff up tasks to fill their day, but also rude and lacking tact with speaking to women who actually work. Good luck with that.

“To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP.”

This is what she wrote. You’re pretending that statement means she thinks that the world would be better off if women didn’t hold professional positions. (I realize that the person asking her a question posed a rather sensational scenario in which all doctors, lawyers, and businessfolk are men, but at no point did this woman, or any woman in this thread, agree that such a scenario would be best. Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the natural flow of conversation?)

You are either being disingenuous or you are not very bright. Perhaps you need a remedial English class before you bother reading for pleasure or your own personal edification.

(Finally, it’s odd you assume I am a SAHM. It’s even more odd that you expect anyone to address you with tact or respect when you are participating in this random thread for the sole purpose of putting other women down.)

-How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men
-kids would be less of a mess

So this person thinks it’s worth the trade off to eliminate professional women because they aren’t raising their kids well enough. And you are defending them, and calling other women “pick mes” and “girlboss” and being condescending and rude to other posters who don’t agree with you. I think we found the misogynist and it’s not the people defending women’s right to work…

Asked and answered. You’re completely unable to follow the flow of a normal conversation.

And now you’re defending women’s “right” to work (in your feeble mind), when what you’ve been advocating for is an *obligation* to work *for pay*, because some part of you knows your high paying, prestigious job is only possible on the backs of “lesser” women you pay a pittance to do all of the tedious tasks of daily family life which you feel are beneath you. GMAFB.

I think it’s you who can’t follow a conversation. I’ve never said work is an obligation. Many people chose not to work, but I don’t respect ones who lie about how much time they spend organizing water bottles that they’re busier than a working mom. Not sure why you’re so hell bent on steering the conversation into weird directions here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

DP here and correct, I only care about myself and my family. Don’t you? My working or not working has zero impact on society. That’s true for most careers, unless you’re a world-renowned physician or researcher or something at that level. Which I certainly am not, and I’m assuming you aren’t either just by virtue of the fact that there are very few people in those fields.

How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men, etc., etc. 99% of these professions are not "world-renowned," but I'd like to think that you are glad that you live in a world where millions women have rejected your attitude that their working has zero impact on society.

To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP. Have you been in a public school lately? Behavior is bananas. Largely because of poor parenting at home.

And here we have it, the white SAHM who voted for Trump because we need to make America great again...

Tradwives of the world actively making it worse for women everywhere. Sigh. It’s sad that people actually believe the world would be better off without women in professional positions.

I mean, women will never get ahead because of catty women like you always tearing other women down. Women who shit on SAHMs or housewives are the ultimate “pick me!” girls, but you have your heads so far up your own asses you’ll never even consider contemplating the internalized misogyny which drives your worldview.

Lean into that patriarchy, girlboss. Make the rich male overlords of the world richer and then act shocked and pretend it’s the housewives holding women down

Huh?? Like me? Did you read the post from the pp saying that the world would be better without women doctors, lawyers or business owners? What is wrong with you? THAT is patriarchy, you seem very confused as to the definition.

+1. There are some very misguided posters on this thread who don't seem to grasp the concepts of misogyny or patriarchy.

1. The poster never said or implied that the “world would be better without women doctors, lawyers, or business owners”. (Although I think the world would be significantly better with fewer lawyers of any sex, but that’s neither here nor there.) You’re both putting words into her mouth to fit your narrative. I believe that’s called a straw man.

2. Capitalism IS patriarchy. There is no divorcing the two. Perhaps if you had some free time to read, think, and reflect on big ideas you would understand that.

You must need glasses, that’s what she wrote. If it’s you trying to back track now, it’s not working out very well.

Your condescending comment about having time to read is duly noted, very apropos for this conversation. You make sahms not only look like lazy liars who fluff up tasks to fill their day, but also rude and lacking tact with speaking to women who actually work. Good luck with that.

“To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP.”

This is what she wrote. You’re pretending that statement means she thinks that the world would be better off if women didn’t hold professional positions. (I realize that the person asking her a question posed a rather sensational scenario in which all doctors, lawyers, and businessfolk are men, but at no point did this woman, or any woman in this thread, agree that such a scenario would be best. Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the natural flow of conversation?)

You are either being disingenuous or you are not very bright. Perhaps you need a remedial English class before you bother reading for pleasure or your own personal edification.

(Finally, it’s odd you assume I am a SAHM. It’s even more odd that you expect anyone to address you with tact or respect when you are participating in this random thread for the sole purpose of putting other women down.)

I think that you are in the minority here. Everyone else understood that the PP was implicitly supporting the idea of women staying at home so that kids would be less of a mess.

She said she thinks kids would be better off with a stay at home parent. That could be mom, or it could be dad. It also doesn’t imply that women who aren’t in the thick of child raising years shouldn’t be in the workforce. She simply meant that prioritizing one’s children is probably a good thing for the kids and society.

I understand that I am in the minority, however, because I am a literate adult. It is clear from much (wasted) time reading these boards that the majority of people are utterly incapable of reading with purpose and nuance, “reading between the lines” as it were. Most of you are functionally illiterate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

Your work isn’t the huge contribution to society you think it is. I prefer my contribution to be focuses on raising great kids. But you do you; no one would miss you at work if you quit tomorrow, though.

FYI, the same kind of idiotic reasoning is why we have a measles outbreak. How individuals, you and those around you, make decisions does have an impact on the world we all inhabit.

What do you do?

I'm an editor.

That’s as informative as saying you’re a SAHM. What do you edit? How do “fill” your time?

Also, good luck when you’re replaced by AI. Not saying it’s better than you, but as this thread shows, our society only cares about maximizing “efficiency” and doesn’t give a rat’s ass about quality. Save your money.

??? I'm working, have a full-time, flexible job with benefits. I'm earning money, so your comment makes zero sense. And while AI is getting better, it's still shockingly unreliable. In my field, which is quite specialized, human editors like myself are correcting a lot of mistakes generated by poor editing programs (often developed in India).

Jesus Christ, you’re an editor but you lack basic reading comprehension? Maybe the unreliable AI would be an improvement after all.

“Save your money” means save (imperative) your money because you will most likely be out of a job within the next five years.

Maybe you just don't write well.

LOL. Do your clients actually pay you for that feedback? Or maybe your “editing” is confined to Instagram stories and LinkedIn posts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

Your work isn’t the huge contribution to society you think it is. I prefer my contribution to be focuses on raising great kids. But you do you; no one would miss you at work if you quit tomorrow, though.

FYI, the same kind of idiotic reasoning is why we have a measles outbreak. How individuals, you and those around you, make decisions does have an impact on the world we all inhabit.

What do you do?

I'm an editor.

That’s as informative as saying you’re a SAHM. What do you edit? How do “fill” your time?

Also, good luck when you’re replaced by AI. Not saying it’s better than you, but as this thread shows, our society only cares about maximizing “efficiency” and doesn’t give a rat’s ass about quality. Save your money.

??? I'm working, have a full-time, flexible job with benefits. I'm earning money, so your comment makes zero sense. And while AI is getting better, it's still shockingly unreliable. In my field, which is quite specialized, human editors like myself are correcting a lot of mistakes generated by poor editing programs (often developed in India).

Jesus Christ, you’re an editor but you lack basic reading comprehension? Maybe the unreliable AI would be an improvement after all.

“Save your money” means save (imperative) your money because you will most likely be out of a job within the next five years.

Maybe you just don't write well.

LOL. Do your clients actually pay you for that feedback? Or maybe your “editing” is confined to Instagram stories and LinkedIn posts?

Wow you are quite a piece of work. You need to touch grass, this sort of vitriol to women you don’t know is actually unhinged. Idk why you’re so defensive of staying home. If it works for your family thats fine, no need to tear down other women in the process. Are you the one making fun of girl bosses and calling other women misogynistic? Yikes on a bike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

Your work isn’t the huge contribution to society you think it is. I prefer my contribution to be focuses on raising great kids. But you do you; no one would miss you at work if you quit tomorrow, though.

FYI, the same kind of idiotic reasoning is why we have a measles outbreak. How individuals, you and those around you, make decisions does have an impact on the world we all inhabit.

What do you do?

I'm an editor.

That’s as informative as saying you’re a SAHM. What do you edit? How do “fill” your time?

Also, good luck when you’re replaced by AI. Not saying it’s better than you, but as this thread shows, our society only cares about maximizing “efficiency” and doesn’t give a rat’s ass about quality. Save your money.

??? I'm working, have a full-time, flexible job with benefits. I'm earning money, so your comment makes zero sense. And while AI is getting better, it's still shockingly unreliable. In my field, which is quite specialized, human editors like myself are correcting a lot of mistakes generated by poor editing programs (often developed in India).

Jesus Christ, you’re an editor but you lack basic reading comprehension? Maybe the unreliable AI would be an improvement after all.

“Save your money” means save (imperative) your money because you will most likely be out of a job within the next five years.

Maybe you just don't write well.

LOL. Do your clients actually pay you for that feedback? Or maybe your “editing” is confined to Instagram stories and LinkedIn posts?

Wow you are quite a piece of work. You need to touch grass, this sort of vitriol to women you don’t know is actually unhinged. Idk why you’re so defensive of staying home. If it works for your family thats fine, no need to tear down other women in the process. Are you the one making fun of girl bosses and calling other women misogynistic? Yikes on a bike.

You’re an editor - can you tell me the definition of hypocrite? Or perhaps another term for “you can dish it out but can’t take it”.

Anyway, please do continue to enlighten us as to how all WOHMs contribute ever so much to society even when some of them (ahem, you) obviously suck at their jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

Your work isn’t the huge contribution to society you think it is. I prefer my contribution to be focuses on raising great kids. But you do you; no one would miss you at work if you quit tomorrow, though.

FYI, the same kind of idiotic reasoning is why we have a measles outbreak. How individuals, you and those around you, make decisions does have an impact on the world we all inhabit.

What do you do?

I'm an editor.

That’s as informative as saying you’re a SAHM. What do you edit? How do “fill” your time?

Also, good luck when you’re replaced by AI. Not saying it’s better than you, but as this thread shows, our society only cares about maximizing “efficiency” and doesn’t give a rat’s ass about quality. Save your money.

??? I'm working, have a full-time, flexible job with benefits. I'm earning money, so your comment makes zero sense. And while AI is getting better, it's still shockingly unreliable. In my field, which is quite specialized, human editors like myself are correcting a lot of mistakes generated by poor editing programs (often developed in India).

Jesus Christ, you’re an editor but you lack basic reading comprehension? Maybe the unreliable AI would be an improvement after all.

“Save your money” means save (imperative) your money because you will most likely be out of a job within the next five years.

Maybe you just don't write well.

LOL. Do your clients actually pay you for that feedback? Or maybe your “editing” is confined to Instagram stories and LinkedIn posts?

Wow you are quite a piece of work. You need to touch grass, this sort of vitriol to women you don’t know is actually unhinged. Idk why you’re so defensive of staying home. If it works for your family thats fine, no need to tear down other women in the process. Are you the one making fun of girl bosses and calling other women misogynistic? Yikes on a bike.

You’re an editor - can you tell me the definition of hypocrite? Or perhaps another term for “you can dish it out but can’t take it”.

Anyway, please do continue to enlighten us as to how all WOHMs contribute ever so much to society even when some of them (ahem, you) obviously suck at their jobs.

NP. I say this kindly. To someone reading along, you are lashing out in bizarre ways. I don’t think it has anything to do with your work status. Go spend some time outside or reading your favorite poetry or something. Times are stressful and something deeper seems to be going on with you. Take care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s the perfect example of Parkinson’s Law - work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion. If you SAH and have 2 hours to make dinner, it will take you 2 hours. WOH parent has 50 minutes to make dinner, so it takes 50 minutes.

It’s like when I call my retired parents and ask them what they have going on the next day, and my mom says “we’re so busy!” even though all they have to do is take the dog to get his nails clipped. That errand will take them all day.

If my sibling wasn’t across the country, I’d think we had the same parents. Right down to the nail clipping. Both my parents worked full time, it is crazy how often they tell me how busy they are!

Everyone knows what’s right for themselves and for their family. I knew before I was out of undergrad I wouldn’t stay home. It isn’t for me, maybe because I was raised by two working parents and so was my H. We were latch key kids, but our dads coached, we ate dinner together most nights and had household chores.

We keep our paychecks separate and fund a household account. It works well and allows us to buy bday gifts etc without the other one knowing. More importantly, it gives us each a sense of autonomy. I like getting paid and saving some for myself but also contributing to the household.

Neither working or stay at home are “better” parents. Good parents invest quality time in their kids and make them feel safe and loved. I spent 10 minutes this morning talking to my son about a recent basketball game and how he is not solely responsible for a loss because he’s only 10 percent of the team. I made time for it because I thought my son needed to hear that. Whether you stay at home or work, those are the moments that matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

Your work isn’t the huge contribution to society you think it is. I prefer my contribution to be focuses on raising great kids. But you do you; no one would miss you at work if you quit tomorrow, though.

FYI, the same kind of idiotic reasoning is why we have a measles outbreak. How individuals, you and those around you, make decisions does have an impact on the world we all inhabit.

What do you do?

I'm an editor.

That’s as informative as saying you’re a SAHM. What do you edit? How do “fill” your time?

Also, good luck when you’re replaced by AI. Not saying it’s better than you, but as this thread shows, our society only cares about maximizing “efficiency” and doesn’t give a rat’s ass about quality. Save your money.

??? I'm working, have a full-time, flexible job with benefits. I'm earning money, so your comment makes zero sense. And while AI is getting better, it's still shockingly unreliable. In my field, which is quite specialized, human editors like myself are correcting a lot of mistakes generated by poor editing programs (often developed in India).

Jesus Christ, you’re an editor but you lack basic reading comprehension? Maybe the unreliable AI would be an improvement after all.

“Save your money” means save (imperative) your money because you will most likely be out of a job within the next five years.

Maybe you just don't write well.

LOL. Do your clients actually pay you for that feedback? Or maybe your “editing” is confined to Instagram stories and LinkedIn posts?

Wow you are quite a piece of work. You need to touch grass, this sort of vitriol to women you don’t know is actually unhinged. Idk why you’re so defensive of staying home. If it works for your family thats fine, no need to tear down other women in the process. Are you the one making fun of girl bosses and calling other women misogynistic? Yikes on a bike.

You’re an editor - can you tell me the definition of hypocrite? Or perhaps another term for “you can dish it out but can’t take it”.

Anyway, please do continue to enlighten us as to how all WOHMs contribute ever so much to society even when some of them (ahem, you) obviously suck at their jobs.

I’m not the editor, dp, how am I a hypocrite? You’re such a nasty person I doubt you’re even married, let alone have a whole family. I’m so glad I don’t know people like you irl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

Your work isn’t the huge contribution to society you think it is. I prefer my contribution to be focuses on raising great kids. But you do you; no one would miss you at work if you quit tomorrow, though.

FYI, the same kind of idiotic reasoning is why we have a measles outbreak. How individuals, you and those around you, make decisions does have an impact on the world we all inhabit.

What do you do?

I'm an editor.

That’s as informative as saying you’re a SAHM. What do you edit? How do “fill” your time?

Also, good luck when you’re replaced by AI. Not saying it’s better than you, but as this thread shows, our society only cares about maximizing “efficiency” and doesn’t give a rat’s ass about quality. Save your money.

??? I'm working, have a full-time, flexible job with benefits. I'm earning money, so your comment makes zero sense. And while AI is getting better, it's still shockingly unreliable. In my field, which is quite specialized, human editors like myself are correcting a lot of mistakes generated by poor editing programs (often developed in India).

Jesus Christ, you’re an editor but you lack basic reading comprehension? Maybe the unreliable AI would be an improvement after all.

“Save your money” means save (imperative) your money because you will most likely be out of a job within the next five years.

Maybe you just don't write well.

LOL. Do your clients actually pay you for that feedback? Or maybe your “editing” is confined to Instagram stories and LinkedIn posts?

Wow you are quite a piece of work. You need to touch grass, this sort of vitriol to women you don’t know is actually unhinged. Idk why you’re so defensive of staying home. If it works for your family thats fine, no need to tear down other women in the process. Are you the one making fun of girl bosses and calling other women misogynistic? Yikes on a bike.

You’re an editor - can you tell me the definition of hypocrite? Or perhaps another term for “you can dish it out but can’t take it”.

Anyway, please do continue to enlighten us as to how all WOHMs contribute ever so much to society even when some of them (ahem, you) obviously suck at their jobs.

I’m not the editor, dp, how am I a hypocrite? You’re such a nasty person I doubt you’re even married, let alone have a whole family. I’m so glad I don’t know people like you irl.

+1000 Yikes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

DP here and correct, I only care about myself and my family. Don’t you? My working or not working has zero impact on society. That’s true for most careers, unless you’re a world-renowned physician or researcher or something at that level. Which I certainly am not, and I’m assuming you aren’t either just by virtue of the fact that there are very few people in those fields.

How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men, etc., etc. 99% of these professions are not "world-renowned," but I'd like to think that you are glad that you live in a world where millions women have rejected your attitude that their working has zero impact on society.

To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP. Have you been in a public school lately? Behavior is bananas. Largely because of poor parenting at home.

And here we have it, the white SAHM who voted for Trump because we need to make America great again...

Tradwives of the world actively making it worse for women everywhere. Sigh. It’s sad that people actually believe the world would be better off without women in professional positions.

I mean, women will never get ahead because of catty women like you always tearing other women down. Women who shit on SAHMs or housewives are the ultimate “pick me!” girls, but you have your heads so far up your own asses you’ll never even consider contemplating the internalized misogyny which drives your worldview.

Lean into that patriarchy, girlboss. Make the rich male overlords of the world richer and then act shocked and pretend it’s the housewives holding women down

Huh?? Like me? Did you read the post from the pp saying that the world would be better without women doctors, lawyers or business owners? What is wrong with you? THAT is patriarchy, you seem very confused as to the definition.

+1. There are some very misguided posters on this thread who don't seem to grasp the concepts of misogyny or patriarchy.

1. The poster never said or implied that the “world would be better without women doctors, lawyers, or business owners”. (Although I think the world would be significantly better with fewer lawyers of any sex, but that’s neither here nor there.) You’re both putting words into her mouth to fit your narrative. I believe that’s called a straw man.

2. Capitalism IS patriarchy. There is no divorcing the two. Perhaps if you had some free time to read, think, and reflect on big ideas you would understand that.

You must need glasses, that’s what she wrote. If it’s you trying to back track now, it’s not working out very well.

Your condescending comment about having time to read is duly noted, very apropos for this conversation. You make sahms not only look like lazy liars who fluff up tasks to fill their day, but also rude and lacking tact with speaking to women who actually work. Good luck with that.

“To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP.”

This is what she wrote. You’re pretending that statement means she thinks that the world would be better off if women didn’t hold professional positions. (I realize that the person asking her a question posed a rather sensational scenario in which all doctors, lawyers, and businessfolk are men, but at no point did this woman, or any woman in this thread, agree that such a scenario would be best. Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the natural flow of conversation?)

You are either being disingenuous or you are not very bright. Perhaps you need a remedial English class before you bother reading for pleasure or your own personal edification.

(Finally, it’s odd you assume I am a SAHM. It’s even more odd that you expect anyone to address you with tact or respect when you are participating in this random thread for the sole purpose of putting other women down.)

-How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men
-kids would be less of a mess

So this person thinks it’s worth the trade off to eliminate professional women because they aren’t raising their kids well enough. And you are defending them, and calling other women “pick mes” and “girlboss” and being condescending and rude to other posters who don’t agree with you. I think we found the misogynist and it’s not the people defending women’s right to work…

Asked and answered. You’re completely unable to follow the flow of a normal conversation.

And now you’re defending women’s “right” to work (in your feeble mind), when what you’ve been advocating for is an *obligation* to work *for pay*, because some part of you knows your high paying, prestigious job is only possible on the backs of “lesser” women you pay a pittance to do all of the tedious tasks of daily family life which you feel are beneath you. GMAFB.

DP. This needs to be said more, and louder. Women who are mothers are able to have high power careers exactly because lower status women are there to use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well... what do you do all day when they are in school? They are teens - go back to work.

This is very insulting. Let me enlighten you:
My kids (one elementary and one middle school) have different school start and end times so it ends up they are both gone 6 hours on school days. Here is what I “do all day” as you so condescendingly put it:
Hour 1: clean up kitchen, do dishes, start first of many loads of laundry, tidy house (I clean my own house so every day I do a deep clean in one room/bathroom)
Hour 2: walk dog, switch out laundry, continue any unfinished cleaning
Hour 3: grocery store (one of 4 places I shop)
Hoot 4: put groceries away, start prepping dinner, switch out laundry
Hour 5: make appointments for family, respond to all kid-related emails (sports, bday invites, doc appointments)
Hour 6: prep sports bags/clothes/car snacks/ water bottles for kids afternoon activities

Then I go pick up my kids and my SECOND SHIFT of parenting begins. This lasts about 6-7 hours, driving them to activities, walking dog again at those locations, then at home making dinner, feeding everyone, cleaning up kitchen, helping with homework, overseeing bedtime routine, doing the social-emotional bonding they both want every night, until actual bedtime.

So this is how I look at it, and it’s how my husband describes my life: I basically have 2 part time jobs, totaling 14 hours of total work. The first is running the household and the second is the hands-on parenting.

Hope this helps everyone reading this thread to understand that SAHPs deserve respect. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. What other job can you think of that comes with no training, very little resources or support, no sick days, no days off, no pay, and very little appreciation?

So you cook, clean, do laundry and grocery shop. Most working people do this too. Like, I don’t get why you think this is such an accomplishment?

DP. I don't understand why this is such a debate or a competition about who's better or does more. Nobody is saying all the things a SAHP does can't get done by parents working outside the home. Someone asked what the SAHM does all day and she (and others) answered the question. Why? Because working parents don't seem to believe that SAHPs are busy at all and just sit around half the day.

Goody for you for doing it all. And good for the SAHPs who do all that they do. What many SAHPs here aren't including is all their volunteer activities around their kids' schools and activities, which can be as much as part-time to full-time-work-equivalent.

It's not "a debate" about who does more. That's obvious. Not up for debate. It isn't the SAHMommies.

Only in the US do people want a medal for bragging about how busy they are.
Leisure time is valued in most of the world

This is not about being busy. This is about how a capable, well educated woman can and ought to contribute to society beyond her nuclear family once the children are teenagers and there are no extenuating circumstances. Frankly, none of the excuses is particularly compelling. And the attempts to justify SAHMs under these circumstances are laughable. Just admit that you care more about the lifestyle than you care about contributing to society, that your higher ed degree was a bit of a waste on you, that you don't care that much about setting an example to your own kids about women holding professional status in the workforce, and that you are ultimately not that troubled by the economic risks of SAH. It's the utter intellectual dishonesty of SAHMs that amuse me.

DP here and correct, I only care about myself and my family. Don’t you? My working or not working has zero impact on society. That’s true for most careers, unless you’re a world-renowned physician or researcher or something at that level. Which I certainly am not, and I’m assuming you aren’t either just by virtue of the fact that there are very few people in those fields.

How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men, etc., etc. 99% of these professions are not "world-renowned," but I'd like to think that you are glad that you live in a world where millions women have rejected your attitude that their working has zero impact on society.

To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP. Have you been in a public school lately? Behavior is bananas. Largely because of poor parenting at home.

And here we have it, the white SAHM who voted for Trump because we need to make America great again...

Tradwives of the world actively making it worse for women everywhere. Sigh. It’s sad that people actually believe the world would be better off without women in professional positions.

I mean, women will never get ahead because of catty women like you always tearing other women down. Women who shit on SAHMs or housewives are the ultimate “pick me!” girls, but you have your heads so far up your own asses you’ll never even consider contemplating the internalized misogyny which drives your worldview.

Lean into that patriarchy, girlboss. Make the rich male overlords of the world richer and then act shocked and pretend it’s the housewives holding women down

Huh?? Like me? Did you read the post from the pp saying that the world would be better without women doctors, lawyers or business owners? What is wrong with you? THAT is patriarchy, you seem very confused as to the definition.

+1. There are some very misguided posters on this thread who don't seem to grasp the concepts of misogyny or patriarchy.

1. The poster never said or implied that the “world would be better without women doctors, lawyers, or business owners”. (Although I think the world would be significantly better with fewer lawyers of any sex, but that’s neither here nor there.) You’re both putting words into her mouth to fit your narrative. I believe that’s called a straw man.

2. Capitalism IS patriarchy. There is no divorcing the two. Perhaps if you had some free time to read, think, and reflect on big ideas you would understand that.

You must need glasses, that’s what she wrote. If it’s you trying to back track now, it’s not working out very well.

Your condescending comment about having time to read is duly noted, very apropos for this conversation. You make sahms not only look like lazy liars who fluff up tasks to fill their day, but also rude and lacking tact with speaking to women who actually work. Good luck with that.

“To be honest, I think kids would be less of mess, if more families had a SAHP.”

This is what she wrote. You’re pretending that statement means she thinks that the world would be better off if women didn’t hold professional positions. (I realize that the person asking her a question posed a rather sensational scenario in which all doctors, lawyers, and businessfolk are men, but at no point did this woman, or any woman in this thread, agree that such a scenario would be best. Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the natural flow of conversation?)

You are either being disingenuous or you are not very bright. Perhaps you need a remedial English class before you bother reading for pleasure or your own personal edification.

(Finally, it’s odd you assume I am a SAHM. It’s even more odd that you expect anyone to address you with tact or respect when you are participating in this random thread for the sole purpose of putting other women down.)

-How would you feel if we went back to the 1950s and all your doctors were men, all your professors were men, all the lawyers were men, all the bankers were men, all the business owners were men
-kids would be less of a mess

So this person thinks it’s worth the trade off to eliminate professional women because they aren’t raising their kids well enough. And you are defending them, and calling other women “pick mes” and “girlboss” and being condescending and rude to other posters who don’t agree with you. I think we found the misogynist and it’s not the people defending women’s right to work…

Asked and answered. You’re completely unable to follow the flow of a normal conversation.

And now you’re defending women’s “right” to work (in your feeble mind), when what you’ve been advocating for is an *obligation* to work *for pay*, because some part of you knows your high paying, prestigious job is only possible on the backs of “lesser” women you pay a pittance to do all of the tedious tasks of daily family life which you feel are beneath you. GMAFB.

DP. This needs to be said more, and louder. Women who are mothers are able to have high power careers exactly because lower status women are there to use.

NP. This ludicrous statement is why we won’t see a woman president anytime soon. No one would ever say this about a man. The vitriol by women towards other women who are successful outside the home, I will never understand. It’s sad and just gross.