Big 3 Nightmare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

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Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

So in other words, you want to pull down the ladder behind you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

A meritocracy doesn’t include $50,000/year private schools. At all.

[Anonymous]

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You just had unrealistic expectations from the beginning. The locus of Ivy-bound kids in this area has always been TJ and the MCPS magnets/RMIB. If your kid wasn’t going to get in there, they weren’t going to get into an Ivy. When you pay for private school you do not actually pay for the strivers and the “smartest” - those kids have always been in public. What you pay for is getting into a namebrand SLAC of some sort, especially if your child is less impressive. In some ways your kid working hard at the private was a waste. They could have coasted with the same result - that is actually what you paid for!

This is complete bs. The smartest kids have definitely never “always been in public,” any more than they have always been in private. Most kids don’t want or try to get into TJ or RM, it has nothing to do with not being able to get in. Your scenario is a fantasy, since 30-40% of Ivy classes come from private. And what private school families pay for is a rigorous curriculum with smaller classes that teach students how (not what) to think and write, not college admissions.

Who said that 30-40% are the smartest? They certainly may be connected. But even with those stats it’s evident that the majority of Ivy kids don’t come from private. I’ll say it again - the *whole point* of private is to protect your children’s privilege to be average and still get into a great college. The brillian strivers going to MIT are in RMIB. Your “big 3” kid is not that smart and hardworking - and that is the whole point: they do not have to be. It’s the literal definition of privilege.

I believe 50% of Ivy students come from private school while 50% come from public. Given that 90% of students in the US go to public school, this means that, other things being equal, private school students are heavily favoured for Ivy admissions. Parents are upset because the outcome is much more unpredictable than it used to be and all colleges and universities have become much more competitive.

No, whatever the stat is, it means that most public school kids don't even apply to college and instead go into trades or other professions. Only something like 42% of Americans have a college degree. https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analysis/2021/07/01/how-many-americans-have-college-degrees/

And another huge chunk of public school kids don't even apply to ivies, or the ivy accepts them with small FA so they choose a SLAC or state school that offers more aid instead. Ivies don't offer merit aid. We know several middle-class kids who turned down ivies, but DC went because we were full pay.

Geez, people.

no, it also means that those who could afford elite private High Schools are also largely the group that can afford to be full pay at an Ivy. The public school kids that don't even apply to ivies often don't because they know they can't afford it so they stick to schools that give merit and state schools

[Anonymous]

My kid is a 10th grader at GDS. I don’t particularly obsess over top 10 schools but an admit to a top 50 would be nice.
Do parents who have just gone through the college application experience recommend we hire an outside college consultant?
My kid will not have a legacy or URM advantage

[Anonymous]

We are in another major city with a private with grade deflation and our DC had an unweighted GPA of 3.55, he messed up 9th grade (1560 SAT, National Merit). However, our school allows kids to take APs even if they don't teach it in class. For instance you can take the school chem class but they don't specifically follow ap curriculum but say you are prepared to take the test. Fortunately, my dc decided to take about 8 of the rigorous APs. He got into two top 20s (including a top CA public) two in the 20th to 30th range and two in the 30th to 40th range. I think taking AP exams may have helped. Did not get into his ED school. For my daughter, also in private, I am going to make her take the AP exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You just had unrealistic expectations from the beginning. The locus of Ivy-bound kids in this area has always been TJ and the MCPS magnets/RMIB. If your kid wasn’t going to get in there, they weren’t going to get into an Ivy. When you pay for private school you do not actually pay for the strivers and the “smartest” - those kids have always been in public. What you pay for is getting into a namebrand SLAC of some sort, especially if your child is less impressive. In some ways your kid working hard at the private was a waste. They could have coasted with the same result - that is actually what you paid for!

This is complete bs. The smartest kids have definitely never “always been in public,” any more than they have always been in private. Most kids don’t want or try to get into TJ or RM, it has nothing to do with not being able to get in. Your scenario is a fantasy, since 30-40% of Ivy classes come from private. And what private school families pay for is a rigorous curriculum with smaller classes that teach students how (not what) to think and write, not college admissions.

Who said that 30-40% are the smartest? They certainly may be connected. But even with those stats it’s evident that the majority of Ivy kids don’t come from private. I’ll say it again - the *whole point* of private is to protect your children’s privilege to be average and still get into a great college. The brillian strivers going to MIT are in RMIB. Your “big 3” kid is not that smart and hardworking - and that is the whole point: they do not have to be. It’s the literal definition of privilege.

I believe 50% of Ivy students come from private school while 50% come from public. Given that 90% of students in the US go to public school, this means that, other things being equal, private school students are heavily favoured for Ivy admissions. Parents are upset because the outcome is much more unpredictable than it used to be and all colleges and universities have become much more competitive.

MIT is less than 1/4 private.

MIT is a different kettle of fish. They take huge batches of kids from STEM magnet high schools. A STEM magnet is probably your best shot at getting into MIT if that happens to be your dream. They rarely take kids from schools like Sidwell, GDS, Holton, Walls, Jackson Reed.
They also don’t recruit for athletics or consider legacy. Best way to get into Harvard for example is legacy and/or athletics

True about no legacy at MIT. Untrue about athletic recruiting - athletic recruits are definitely "hooked" at MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think any parent considering a Big 3 (especially at the K level) needs to ask themselves...will I be OK or furious when my little Jimmy ends up at the University of Maryland.

If they are OK, then go ahead and spend the $$$s....if furious, they need to take a step back and realize that UMD (or the equivalent) is their more likely outcome...especially if you are not legacy at a top school and don't think your kid will be some great athlete.

Obviously, if you are rich and the tuition is just a rounding error..then who cares either way.

Most people are spending the money for a better education, not to get their kids into a better college.

That is actually complete BS...but you agreed with the post. Some are spending for the better education...even many...but not most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

You just had unrealistic expectations from the beginning. The locus of Ivy-bound kids in this area has always been TJ and the MCPS magnets/RMIB. If your kid wasn’t going to get in there, they weren’t going to get into an Ivy. When you pay for private school you do not actually pay for the strivers and the “smartest” - those kids have always been in public. What you pay for is getting into a namebrand SLAC of some sort, especially if your child is less impressive. In some ways your kid working hard at the private was a waste. They could have coasted with the same result - that is actually what you paid for!

This is complete bs. The smartest kids have definitely never “always been in public,” any more than they have always been in private. Most kids don’t want or try to get into TJ or RM, it has nothing to do with not being able to get in. Your scenario is a fantasy, since 30-40% of Ivy classes come from private. And what private school families pay for is a rigorous curriculum with smaller classes that teach students how (not what) to think and write, not college admissions.

Who said that 30-40% are the smartest? They certainly may be connected. But even with those stats it’s evident that the majority of Ivy kids don’t come from private. I’ll say it again - the *whole point* of private is to protect your children’s privilege to be average and still get into a great college. The brillian strivers going to MIT are in RMIB. Your “big 3” kid is not that smart and hardworking - and that is the whole point: they do not have to be. It’s the literal definition of privilege.

I believe 50% of Ivy students come from private school while 50% come from public. Given that 90% of students in the US go to public school, this means that, other things being equal, private school students are heavily favoured for Ivy admissions. Parents are upset because the outcome is much more unpredictable than it used to be and all colleges and universities have become much more competitive.

MIT is less than 1/4 private.

MIT is a different kettle of fish. They take huge batches of kids from STEM magnet high schools. A STEM magnet is probably your best shot at getting into MIT if that happens to be your dream. They rarely take kids from schools like Sidwell, GDS, Holton, Walls, Jackson Reed.
They also don’t recruit for athletics or consider legacy. Best way to get into Harvard for example is legacy and/or athletics

True about no legacy at MIT. Untrue about athletic recruiting - athletic recruits are definitely "hooked" at MIT.

It is not the same as at other schools. It may give you a small edge over another student but you already have to have incredible stats. MIT sports teams are pretty crappy for that reason. For example, 2 basketball players from this area are headed to Harvard for the fall. One from Gonzaga, one from St. John’s.
MIT would never aggressively recruit like that.

[Anonymous]

Kid at one of the top schools (not Big three, next three).

Yes, of course, we all know that private schools do not guarantee good colleges. And yes, we all knew that our kids' GPA would suffer and that being in the private school environment was why were in it for the long run.

But what I did NOT expect:

That with TO, your kid will have an issue even at Univ. of Maryland, and other second/third tier/flagship state schools. These schools don't give a rats A@@ about the private schools in DC and how good they are. And they go by GPA, period.

So the "benefit" is much more stress, more homework, for no gain.

I dismissed the whining private school parents who complained about this several years ago. But now I see it. And it sucks.

Will my child live? Of course. But for the private school critics, my kid worked hard for 4 years. Really hard. And here we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in another major city with a private with grade deflation and our DC had an unweighted GPA of 3.55, he messed up 9th grade (1560 SAT, National Merit). However, our school allows kids to take APs even if they don't teach it in class. For instance you can take the school chem class but they don't specifically follow ap curriculum but say you are prepared to take the test. Fortunately, my dc decided to take about 8 of the rigorous APs. He got into two top 20s (including a top CA public) two in the 20th to 30th range and two in the 30th to 40th range. I think taking AP exams may have helped. Did not get into his ED school. For my daughter, also in private, I am going to make her take the AP exams.

How do you convey that he didn't take AP class, but the exam? Does the exam grade get reflected anywhere?

Our private school doesn't do this. Seems sketchy? Why wouldn't any kid do it, if all you need to do is pass?

Maybe I am misunderstanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You just had unrealistic expectations from the beginning. The locus of Ivy-bound kids in this area has always been TJ and the MCPS magnets/RMIB. If your kid wasn’t going to get in there, they weren’t going to get into an Ivy. When you pay for private school you do not actually pay for the strivers and the “smartest” - those kids have always been in public. What you pay for is getting into a namebrand SLAC of some sort, especially if your child is less impressive. In some ways your kid working hard at the private was a waste. They could have coasted with the same result - that is actually what you paid for!

This is complete bs. The smartest kids have definitely never “always been in public,” any more than they have always been in private. Most kids don’t want or try to get into TJ or RM, it has nothing to do with not being able to get in. Your scenario is a fantasy, since 30-40% of Ivy classes come from private. And what private school families pay for is a rigorous curriculum with smaller classes that teach students how (not what) to think and write, not college admissions.

Who said that 30-40% are the smartest? They certainly may be connected. But even with those stats it’s evident that the majority of Ivy kids don’t come from private. I’ll say it again - the *whole point* of private is to protect your children’s privilege to be average and still get into a great college. The brillian strivers going to MIT are in RMIB. Your “big 3” kid is not that smart and hardworking - and that is the whole point: they do not have to be. It’s the literal definition of privilege.

I believe 50% of Ivy students come from private school while 50% come from public. Given that 90% of students in the US go to public school, this means that, other things being equal, private school students are heavily favoured for Ivy admissions. Parents are upset because the outcome is much more unpredictable than it used to be and all colleges and universities have become much more competitive.

No, whatever the stat is, it means that most public school kids don't even apply to college and instead go into trades or other professions. Only something like 42% of Americans have a college degree. https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analysis/2021/07/01/how-many-americans-have-college-degrees/

And another huge chunk of public school kids don't even apply to ivies, or the ivy accepts them with small FA so they choose a SLAC or state school that offers more aid instead. Ivies don't offer merit aid. We know several middle-class kids who turned down ivies, but DC went because we were full pay.

Geez, people.

no, it also means that those who could afford elite private High Schools are also largely the group that can afford to be full pay at an Ivy. The public school kids that don't even apply to ivies often don't because they know they can't afford it so they stick to schools that give merit and state schools

Another way to look at this is that the Ivys have more kids from the top 1% of wealthy families than the entire bottom 50%. Why is that if the Ivys are supposedly generous with financial aid. Almost all of the kids from the top 1% most likely go to private schools. There is a clear bias towards private schools in Ivy admissions. It has dropped a little bit though which is a huge shock to the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in another major city with a private with grade deflation and our DC had an unweighted GPA of 3.55, he messed up 9th grade (1560 SAT, National Merit). However, our school allows kids to take APs even if they don't teach it in class. For instance you can take the school chem class but they don't specifically follow ap curriculum but say you are prepared to take the test. Fortunately, my dc decided to take about 8 of the rigorous APs. He got into two top 20s (including a top CA public) two in the 20th to 30th range and two in the 30th to 40th range. I think taking AP exams may have helped. Did not get into his ED school. For my daughter, also in private, I am going to make her take the AP exams.

How do you convey that he didn't take AP class, but the exam? Does the exam grade get reflected anywhere?

Our private school doesn't do this. Seems sketchy? Why wouldn't any kid do it, if all you need to do is pass?

Maybe I am misunderstanding.

On the UC application there is a space to include your AP scores. My daughter took AP equivalent class but was not able to take the AP tests last year and was accepted into 2 top UC schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in another major city with a private with grade deflation and our DC had an unweighted GPA of 3.55, he messed up 9th grade (1560 SAT, National Merit). However, our school allows kids to take APs even if they don't teach it in class. For instance you can take the school chem class but they don't specifically follow ap curriculum but say you are prepared to take the test. Fortunately, my dc decided to take about 8 of the rigorous APs. He got into two top 20s (including a top CA public) two in the 20th to 30th range and two in the 30th to 40th range. I think taking AP exams may have helped. Did not get into his ED school. For my daughter, also in private, I am going to make her take the AP exams.

How do you convey that he didn't take AP class, but the exam? Does the exam grade get reflected anywhere?

Our private school doesn't do this. Seems sketchy? Why wouldn't any kid do it, if all you need to do is pass?

Maybe I am misunderstanding.

Dc just submitted AP scores and school transcript which shows he took accelerated classes related to AP. It seemed to have worked fine.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This thread seems to be primarily about GDS. Is Sidwell similar or STA/NCS?

Also, how does GDS address the needs of families who are seeking need based and merit aid? Do they allow those families to apply more broadly? DC is on considerable FA at another school and I would not be ok if DC had to limit options for matching with a school with adequate funding because of arbitrary school rules.

The NCS process is much more transparent and you have access to more data. That does not mean everyone at NCS is thrilled with their outcomes or with the process, but having been through it at both schools, we found the NCS approach less stressful. There are very few scenarios where having less information is better than having more information.

You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS.
Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin.
Not throwing shade at these schools. They are excellent but lots of kids who had a more chill HS experience also end up at the same place. How is the stress and crazy amount of work at top high schools like GDS and NCS worth it?

Bates parent here from a highly regarded DMV public school. Your mindset is 1990s. The median GPA for my kid's HS for Bates was 4.6w. Wisconsin is a similarly tough admit nowadays. None of the kids who go to these schools from the DC area had a "chill HS experience." Sorry that your kid has to slum with mine, we're very glad that we chose not to put our kids in overpriced mediocre privates only to end up in the exact same place as hardworking public school kids. Hope your kid didn't inherit your sense of entitlement.

Is your highly regarded public school in MoCo? because if it is, everyone is aware now of the unlimited retakes, the C + B = A as the final grade, and equity-driven GPA outcomes. I'm not saying your kid isn't deserving. I am saying that any moderately intelligent kid attending at MoCo HS will emerge with a 4.2w or better just by breathing.

This is not the case at GDS, NCS, STA and especially Sidwell, where two English teachers will not give As. To anyone.

I don’t understand why you are being rude. C +B = B in MCPS. It does not equal an A. I agree that there is grade inflation in MCPS but the kids work hard. If you have a problem with the English teachers at Sidwell, you should try to address it at your school rather than trying to feel better by insulting MCPS. Some of the MCPS teachers are also pretty stingy with As.

Unless you've had a kid at GDS, NCS, etc, you can't say they're comparable. They're not. My kid is on a sports team with all MCPS kids who take the hardest classes, very high GPAs, etc, and they don't work even half as hard as their counterparts in top privates. Not saying they're not smart, but their high school experience is absolutely chill in comparison.

My kid went to Jackson Reed and is now at an Ivy. She took 6 APs junior year and almost had a breakdown because there was so much work. She was up until 2am every night. She also had multiple intensive activities that required a lot of time. I’m not saying that JR is as good as GDS but there are some dynamite kids there and I’m sure MCPS is the same. JR still does rankings and my daughter was not even top 5. Every school, public and private, has some amazing kids. And they are all competing for the same schools

Yes, my kids came out of DCPS and many of their friends are at JR and some are very impressive. However, being up well past midnight is par for the course for the baseline (not AP) course in even 9th and 10th grade at some of these Big3 schools. Then 6 APs would be impossible. My kids' schools give 1.5 hours a night per AP course. That ends would be 9 hours of homework nightly if a kid took 6 APs.

I think what the frustration is, is that the Big private school kids are doing the equivalent of your daughter's JR course load every year for 4 years, getting a mixture of As and Bs (because many teachers simply don't give As) and then have no chance in hell of the Ivies or (as of 2023) any school in the top 40.

If I had to do this again, I may not have moved them and we would have stuck with JR. Their high school years have trained them to be phenomenal students but their options for college have really narrowed by our choice to move them from DCPS to private.

This isn't true, at least for 9th and 10th--I know kids at Sidwell and NCS. To the extent it's true for the rare kid out there, after factoring in ECs, it's child abuse. And you paid $50k a year for it.

Your point about APs isn't clear. APs are a form of credentialing, where the public school kids are proving they learned the material inside and out. Kids at a Big 3 don't need that credentialing, which is why we all know that college admissions counselors don't expect as many AP classes from private school kids as from public school kids. Equally, you need to stop complaining that public school kids who took 12 APs didn't learn anything.

My kids in MCPS had teachers that wouldn't give A's either. For example, in AP Calc II. And the colleges' regional reps understand this and have already factored it in. So no using continuing to complain about it.

Also, to the RMIB booster: few kids at RMIB are gunning for MIT, instead they want ivies, and anyway RMIB with the international baccalaureate isn't a fertile ground for MIT to recruit in.

Bottom line: colleges are no longer simply accepting kids with "solid grades" and "solid ECs" and top test scores because you could afford to prep them up the wazoo. Your kid needs top grades (unweighted GPA, and factoring in what the admissions reps know about your school's grading policies) and to knock the ECs out of the ballpark with state and preferably national recognition (like my kid did, coming from public).
- A dozen APs aren't a boost except as credentialing, as pointed out above (and the weighting for APs doesn't change anything because most top colleges take your kid's transcript apart and run it through their own weighting schemes).
- Legacy is no longer a hook at most colleges unless your legacy kid with "solid ECs" comes with a huge donation.
- Being able to pay for intensive test prep from junior year (we know one private school family who did this from HS freshman year) is no longer a boost in a test-optional environment.

How hypocritical if the goal is equity. Do you have any idea how expensive ECs are to participate in? How most kids have zero access to scientific research or whatever? Test scores are the most equitable thing out there. Poor kids are working at Burger King after school as their EC.

No, test scores reflect expensive and tailored tutoring (we've been there), and poor kids are stuck with the generic once-a-week-for-one-month tutoring their HS offers. But you know this....

Colleges love kids that worked after school instead of flying their horse around the country. If you put work in your application, combined with great grades and recs, it's like admissions gold. But you know this....

Lots of public schools have practically free athletic options, even crew at several MCPS schools. DC's ivy had lots of football and baseball recruits. Not everything has to be about fencing (we've also been there). But you know this....

Oh yeah colleges are falling all over themselves for the kids with good grades who went to rough schools and worked at BK after school.

This is a fantasy to make yourself feel better.

This is how the world works these days. You added the part about "rough schools" and those kids do face extra hurdles. But yes, U Penn will take a Montgomery Blair kid who worked 4-6 hrs/day to support their family and save for college over your pampered kid with "solid ECs" in a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

I do not resent your kids. I do resent your belief that they are the smartest and hardest working. They are not. I’m sure they are very bright and smart, but you are literally purchasing advantages for them. Ie privilege.

Every one of your posts is filled with so many false assumptions and ingrained biases that reflect a serious lack of analytical ability. Sending kids to private school does not equal purchasing advantages for them (in fact, if that were someone's goal, this entire thread debunks that it works). People are purchasing what they consider a better education for their kid when they pay their tuition. Under your theory, how do you account for the 30% of students on financial aid at local private schools? Be honest. You are bitter that some people send their kids to private schools, and some of those students are smart and have great work ethics even though they also come from families with money. BTW, I went to public school and have kids that went to MCPS.