Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?

[Anonymous]

People also don't seem to realize their expenses are greater than they were for a middle class family in the past. Master bedrooms were only large enough to fit a larger bed, kids shared rooms, houses had 1 or two bathrooms, furniture did not all match, children only did one expensive activity if at all, kids paid for colleges and weddings, people drove cars for 15 years, a family only had one phone. In our suburban neighborhood people are tearing down the middle class homes of the 40's to the 70's mostly because the homes are now too small for their family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People also don't seem to realize their expenses are greater than they were for a middle class family in the past. Master bedrooms were only large enough to fit a larger bed, kids shared rooms, houses had 1 or two bathrooms, furniture did not all match, children only did one expensive activity if at all, kids paid for colleges and weddings, people drove cars for 15 years, a family only had one phone. In our suburban neighborhood people are tearing down the middle class homes of the 40's to the 70's mostly because the homes are now too small for their family.

People's expenses are greater because they are choosing for them to be greater. There is nothing wrong with the houses we grew up in during the 70s. You don't "need" more space. You "want" more space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People also don't seem to realize their expenses are greater than they were for a middle class family in the past. Master bedrooms were only large enough to fit a larger bed, kids shared rooms, houses had 1 or two bathrooms, furniture did not all match, children only did one expensive activity if at all, kids paid for colleges and weddings, people drove cars for 15 years, a family only had one phone. In our suburban neighborhood people are tearing down the middle class homes of the 40's to the 70's mostly because the homes are now too small for their family.

People's expenses are greater because they are choosing for them to be greater. There is nothing wrong with the houses we grew up in during the 70s. You don't "need" more space. You "want" more space.

Yeah exactly. It is hard to have anything leftover after you choose to pay for the insane amount of activities for your kids, iPhones for the entire family, separate bedrooms for kids, etc. None of this is necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People also don't seem to realize their expenses are greater than they were for a middle class family in the past. Master bedrooms were only large enough to fit a larger bed, kids shared rooms, houses had 1 or two bathrooms, furniture did not all match, children only did one expensive activity if at all, kids paid for colleges and weddings, people drove cars for 15 years, a family only had one phone. In our suburban neighborhood people are tearing down the middle class homes of the 40's to the 70's mostly because the homes are now too small for their family.

People's expenses are greater because they are choosing for them to be greater. There is nothing wrong with the houses we grew up in during the 70s. You don't "need" more space. You "want" more space.

Yeah exactly. It is hard to have anything leftover after you choose to pay for the insane amount of activities for your kids, iPhones for the entire family, separate bedrooms for kids, etc. None of this is necessary.

7:06 again. Yes, this is my point. This is why the $200-$300k families are crying "middle class only" because in reality they can save more, but would rather spend it on other things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People also don't seem to realize their expenses are greater than they were for a middle class family in the past. Master bedrooms were only large enough to fit a larger bed, kids shared rooms, houses had 1 or two bathrooms, furniture did not all match, children only did one expensive activity if at all, kids paid for colleges and weddings, people drove cars for 15 years, a family only had one phone. In our suburban neighborhood people are tearing down the middle class homes of the 40's to the 70's mostly because the homes are now too small for their family.

People's expenses are greater because they are choosing for them to be greater. There is nothing wrong with the houses we grew up in during the 70s. You don't "need" more space. You "want" more space.

Yeah exactly. It is hard to have anything leftover after you choose to pay for the insane amount of activities for your kids, iPhones for the entire family, separate bedrooms for kids, etc. None of this is necessary.

7:06 again. Yes, this is my point. This is why the $200-$300k families are crying "middle class only" because in reality they can save more, but would rather spend it on other things.

This doesn't make any sense. I thought the point of this thread was that if you make $200-300K a year you are not middle class, no matter what you spend it on or how much you save?

[Anonymous]

Maybe I didn't word it well. Yes, if you make $200k or $300k you are not middle class. You may feel middle class because your house isn't particularly large in an urban area compared to where you grew up in either the middle of nowhere or suburbia of the past, but you are paying for extra wants that your parents didn't pay for and probably paying for a nicer neighborhood with more amenities than where you grew up.

[Anonymous]

Middle class is a state of mind. Unless people are living the lifestyle of aSaudi Oil Baron you think you are middle class.

[Anonymous]

We make 325k and live in a 1200 square foot rowhouse. Three brdrooms. We will stay here if we have kids. We feel like we have plenty of money but don't spend as much as our friends do. I take the bus to work, we have one car, take my lunch to work, clean our own house, no iPhones etc. We can invest 5k a month outside of retirement. We dress well but buy expensive clothing and shoes that will last for years. We travel on points.

We used to spend a lot more but once we got closer to 30 we realizes how it was time to stop.

[Anonymous]

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you are middle class if you have to look at what is coming in and what is going out and wonder if the income stops for a few months, can you survive?

I think that those of us that work for a living, have to find childcare (including making the financial call as to whether you can afford to be a SAHM), care for elderly parents, have a mortgage or pay rent, and have to look at the cost of vacation (or save for one) are probably middle class.

[Anonymous]

Can you survive or can you keep your same standard of living and house for a year or so before finding a new job? Most people in the $200k - $300k aren't thinking about survival.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you are middle class if you have to look at what is coming in and what is going out and wonder if the income stops for a few months, can you survive?

I think that those of us that work for a living, have to find childcare (including making the financial call as to whether you can afford to be a SAHM), care for elderly parents, have a mortgage or pay rent, and have to look at the cost of vacation (or save for one) are probably middle class.

Completely no way. You must be a dual working professional family with huge grad school debt to think like this.

[Anonymous]

If 80% of the country looks at you and laughs when you try to justify calling yourself "middle class," you probably aren't.

[Anonymous]

If 80% of the country looks at you and laughs when you try to justify calling yourself "middle class," you probably aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you are middle class if you have to look at what is coming in and what is going out and wonder if the income stops for a few months, can you survive?

I think that those of us that work for a living, have to find childcare (including making the financial call as to whether you can afford to be a SAHM), care for elderly parents, have a mortgage or pay rent, and have to look at the cost of vacation (or save for one) are probably middle class.

Why do people think that if they choose to spend more of their salary every month leaving less for disposable income, that makes them middle class?

The true middle class friends that I have, cut corners on all of these areas because that is their only choice. Two families I know, a grandmother cut back to part-time work so that she could care for her grandchild(ren) part-time. Then the parents went with part-time child-care, one at a less expensive daycare and one with a nanny share because that was all they could afford. I know families that have had to continue to live in small houses in crappy school districts because that was all they could afford. I know friends who cannot afford to care for their parents as they ail and have had to find eldercare that accepted medicaid because that was what they could afford.

If you can choose the best childcare for your child, if you can choose even the crappy house in the best school districts, if you can choose how to care for your elderly parents who need assistance, then you aren't just middle class. The middle class doesn't have these options.

So many DCUMers are so out of touch with reality. Yes, there is a big difference between $300K and $5M but there is also a huge difference between middle class $150K and $300K. I don't care if you live in a crappy shitshack, but when it costs you $800K because you live in Bethesda, then you aren't middle class. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you are middle class if you have to look at what is coming in and what is going out and wonder if the income stops for a few months, can you survive?

I think that those of us that work for a living, have to find childcare (including making the financial call as to whether you can afford to be a SAHM), care for elderly parents, have a mortgage or pay rent, and have to look at the cost of vacation (or save for one) are probably middle class.

Why do people think that if they choose to spend more of their salary every month leaving less for disposable income, that makes them middle class?

The true middle class friends that I have, cut corners on all of these areas because that is their only choice. Two families I know, a grandmother cut back to part-time work so that she could care for her grandchild(ren) part-time. Then the parents went with part-time child-care, one at a less expensive daycare and one with a nanny share because that was all they could afford. I know families that have had to continue to live in small houses in crappy school districts because that was all they could afford. I know friends who cannot afford to care for their parents as they ail and have had to find eldercare that accepted medicaid because that was what they could afford.

If you can choose the best childcare for your child, if you can choose even the crappy house in the best school districts, if you can choose how to care for your elderly parents who need assistance, then you aren't just middle class. The middle class doesn't have these options.

So many DCUMers are so out of touch with reality. Yes, there is a big difference between $300K and $5M but there is also a huge difference between middle class $150K and $300K. I don't care if you live in a crappy shitshack, but when it costs you $800K because you live in Bethesda, then you aren't middle class. Period.

Amen.