Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you going to argue that the people who live in the $5Million Penthouses on Park Avenue aren't middle class either, they're poor because their homes aren't "freestanding".

Yeah a 4000 square foot McMansion in exurbia is so much more prestigious than a Park Avenue apartment.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Nothing ordinary about making north of $200K, which puts one in the top 5% of the country. How is that "middle"? And please don't say "250K doesn't get you very far in NW DC, Chevy Chase and Bethesda" - living in an expensive area is a choice. When I lived in NYC, I remember wealthy professionals in Manhattan saying these incomes are "barely getting by" - as if choosing to live in Manhattan isn't itself a luxury.

http://mic.com/articles/64095/what-we-get-wrong-when-we-define-the-middle-class

If a person works in Manhattan, where should they live? Iowa? Idiot

No Jersey City.

New Jersey has some of the highest property taxes in the nation, unless of course you would have them drive 1.5 hours to get to work because there's no PATH stations in their county

Okay smarty pants - but that is where my middle class friend rents an apartment and commutes from. remember we are talking middle class here!

Renting an apartment is hardly middle class. Having a mortgage on a freestanding house is middle class. And that is expensive in the NYC Metro Region.

Middle class means different things in different areas. In an area where the majority of people live in apartments, then the middle class live in apartments too.

Are you going to argue that the people who live in the $5Million Penthouses on Park Avenue aren't middle class either, they're poor because their homes aren't "freestanding".

Hyperbole helps no one, you knew what PP was saying

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Renting an apartment is hardly middle class. Having a mortgage on a freestanding house is middle class. And that is expensive in the NYC Metro Region.

And yet the vast majority of Westchester and Long Island residents live in households that make less than $200K.

The only people I know who have actually bought in NYC got into a Co-op in TriBeCa when the area was -relatively- cheaper. The rest don't bother, not necessarily because they can't, but because they don't think its worth it. Manhattan itself can be transient- a great place to live when you're single, a young couple, etc. but not necessarily when you have school aged kids. My cousin and her husband rent a two bedroom in the Village and figure by the time their one year old is ready for kindergarten they'll have either moved to Boston or find a home in the burbs. But for now they like the convenience of the city, and would probably laugh if someone said they were lower class because they rent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing ordinary about making north of $200K, which puts one in the top 5% of the country. How is that "middle"? And please don't say "250K doesn't get you very far in NW DC, Chevy Chase and Bethesda" - living in an expensive area is a choice. When I lived in NYC, I remember wealthy professionals in Manhattan saying these incomes are "barely getting by" - as if choosing to live in Manhattan isn't itself a luxury.

http://mic.com/articles/64095/what-we-get-wrong-when-we-define-the-middle-class

If a person works in Manhattan, where should they live? Iowa? Idiot

No Jersey City.

New Jersey has some of the highest property taxes in the nation, unless of course you would have them drive 1.5 hours to get to work because there's no PATH stations in their county

Okay smarty pants - but that is where my middle class friend rents an apartment and commutes from. remember we are talking middle class here!

Renting an apartment is hardly middle class. Having a mortgage on a freestanding house is middle class. And that is expensive in the NYC Metro Region.

Middle class means different things in different areas. In an area where the majority of people live in apartments, then the middle class live in apartments too.

Are you going to argue that the people who live in the $5Million Penthouses on Park Avenue aren't middle class either, they're poor because their homes aren't "freestanding".

Hyperbole helps no one, you knew what PP was saying

Actually I dont. Home ownership is not the definition of middle class, no matter how much you may wish it to be so. If this webpage is true, 69% of New York city residents rent. In what world is 69% of a city like NY lower class?

http://www.nakedapartments.com/guides/nyc/renting-in-new-york-city/high-demand-low-supply

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing ordinary about making north of $200K, which puts one in the top 5% of the country. How is that "middle"? And please don't say "250K doesn't get you very far in NW DC, Chevy Chase and Bethesda" - living in an expensive area is a choice. When I lived in NYC, I remember wealthy professionals in Manhattan saying these incomes are "barely getting by" - as if choosing to live in Manhattan isn't itself a luxury.

http://mic.com/articles/64095/what-we-get-wrong-when-we-define-the-middle-class

If a person works in Manhattan, where should they live? Iowa? Idiot

No Jersey City.

New Jersey has some of the highest property taxes in the nation, unless of course you would have them drive 1.5 hours to get to work because there's no PATH stations in their county

Okay smarty pants - but that is where my middle class friend rents an apartment and commutes from. remember we are talking middle class here!

Renting an apartment is hardly middle class. Having a mortgage on a freestanding house is middle class. And that is expensive in the NYC Metro Region.

Seriously? Everyone who rents is not middle class? That is laughable. You don't have to own to be middle class or even rich.

This. In fact, the rich are paupers on paper

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The $350K earner who feels "squeezed" by the high cost of childcare and housing really needs to get a financial adviser.

Or just decide to become a more invovled parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing ordinary about making north of $200K, which puts one in the top 5% of the country. How is that "middle"? And please don't say "250K doesn't get you very far in NW DC, Chevy Chase and Bethesda" - living in an expensive area is a choice. When I lived in NYC, I remember wealthy professionals in Manhattan saying these incomes are "barely getting by" - as if choosing to live in Manhattan isn't itself a luxury.

http://mic.com/articles/64095/what-we-get-wrong-when-we-define-the-middle-class

If a person works in Manhattan, where should they live? Iowa? Idiot

No Jersey City.

New Jersey has some of the highest property taxes in the nation, unless of course you would have them drive 1.5 hours to get to work because there's no PATH stations in their county

Okay smarty pants - but that is where my middle class friend rents an apartment and commutes from. remember we are talking middle class here!

Renting an apartment is hardly middle class. Having a mortgage on a freestanding house is middle class. And that is expensive in the NYC Metro Region.

Middle class means different things in different areas. In an area where the majority of people live in apartments, then the middle class live in apartments too.

Are you going to argue that the people who live in the $5Million Penthouses on Park Avenue aren't middle class either, they're poor because their homes aren't "freestanding".

Hyperbole helps no one, you knew what PP was saying

Actually I dont. Home ownership is not the definition of middle class, no matter how much you may wish it to be so. If this webpage is true, 69% of New York city residents rent. In what world is 69% of a city like NY lower class?

http://www.nakedapartments.com/guides/nyc/renting-in-new-york-city/high-demand-low-supply

I think I get it now. PP who so desperately wants to be called middle class just has a completely different definition of middle class than the rest of us. According to this PP - those of us in apartments or townhouses (or smaller single family homes in Silver Spring or PG) are lower class (no matter how much money we make). And the people with single family homes in Bethesda and Arlington who have huge mortgages and thus limited disposable income are "middle class". The upper class is left for the truly rich. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or just decide to become a more invovled parent.

LOL

[Anonymous]

I'm assuming the "I'm struggling middle class on 350K because of housing and daycare costs even though I can't explain where the remaining 10K goes each month goes" poster and the poster who thinks people are "idiots" for suggesting that an income in the $300K range is a very high income in New York and only people with "freestanding" houses are "middle class" are different people. But who knows?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm assuming the "I'm struggling middle class on 350K because of housing and daycare costs even though I can't explain where the remaining 10K goes each month goes" poster and the poster who thinks people are "idiots" for suggesting that an income in the $300K range is a very high income in New York and only people with "freestanding" houses are "middle class" are different people. But who knows?

I'm assuming there are some different people on this thread - but I really believe there is one PP for whom this is a mission and he/she posts a lot.

[Anonymous]

There are many posters, I think. For what it's worth, I think people who cry poor on 350K are ridiculous. Homeownership is certainly not a requisite for the middle class, though it can be an indicator. However, I think it's entirely appropriate for people making 200-300K in DC to think of themselves as upper middle class, which was the question posed by OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing ordinary about making north of $200K, which puts one in the top 5% of the country. How is that "middle"? And please don't say "250K doesn't get you very far in NW DC, Chevy Chase and Bethesda" - living in an expensive area is a choice. When I lived in NYC, I remember wealthy professionals in Manhattan saying these incomes are "barely getting by" - as if choosing to live in Manhattan isn't itself a luxury.

http://mic.com/articles/64095/what-we-get-wrong-when-we-define-the-middle-class

If a person works in Manhattan, where should they live? Iowa? Idiot

No Jersey City.

New Jersey has some of the highest property taxes in the nation, unless of course you would have them drive 1.5 hours to get to work because there's no PATH stations in their county

Okay smarty pants - but that is where my middle class friend rents an apartment and commutes from. remember we are talking middle class here!

Renting an apartment is hardly middle class. Having a mortgage on a freestanding house is middle class. And that is expensive in the NYC Metro Region.

Middle class means different things in different areas. In an area where the majority of people live in apartments, then the middle class live in apartments too.

Are you going to argue that the people who live in the $5Million Penthouses on Park Avenue aren't middle class either, they're poor because their homes aren't "freestanding".

Hyperbole helps no one, you knew what PP was saying

Actually I dont. Home ownership is not the definition of middle class, no matter how much you may wish it to be so. If this webpage is true, 69% of New York city residents rent. In what world is 69% of a city like NY lower class?

http://www.nakedapartments.com/guides/nyc/renting-in-new-york-city/high-demand-low-supply

I think I get it now. PP who so desperately wants to be called middle class just has a completely different definition of middle class than the rest of us. According to this PP - those of us in apartments or townhouses (or smaller single family homes in Silver Spring or PG) are lower class (no matter how much money we make). And the people with single family homes in Bethesda and Arlington who have huge mortgages and thus limited disposable income are "middle class". The upper class is left for the truly rich. LOL.

This is exactly the heart of the issue. Some people think of middle class as the lifestyle of a middle class family in Mayberry. Complete with the SFH and white picket fence. But in more urban areas, the middle class lives in townhomes and apartments.

If you want the "typical" middle class lifestyle compared to Desmoines, Iowa, then yeah ... 200k isn't gonna go very far. That's why transplants such as myself get sticker shock and what our incomes can afford (and I'm in a <200k HHI house). The people crying "middle class" in 250 and 300k salaries need to readjust their expectations of middle class life in a major metropolitan area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Renting an apartment is hardly middle class. Having a mortgage on a freestanding house is middle class. And that is expensive in the NYC Metro Region.

And yet the vast majority of Westchester and Long Island residents live in households that make less than $200K.

The only people I know who have actually bought in NYC got into a Co-op in TriBeCa when the area was -relatively- cheaper. The rest don't bother, not necessarily because they can't, but because they don't think its worth it. Manhattan itself can be transient- a great place to live when you're single, a young couple, etc. but not necessarily when you have school aged kids. My cousin and her husband rent a two bedroom in the Village and figure by the time their one year old is ready for kindergarten they'll have either moved to Boston or find a home in the burbs. But for now they like the convenience of the city, and would probably laugh if someone said they were lower class because they rent.

Hope they are saving aggressively for a down payment. When we lived in NY we found it challenging to save with rent that is essentially the same as a mortgage payment. I'm not quite sure our remaining friends in NY are really saving any money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Renting an apartment is hardly middle class. Having a mortgage on a freestanding house is middle class. And that is expensive in the NYC Metro Region.

And yet the vast majority of Westchester and Long Island residents live in households that make less than $200K.

The only people I know who have actually bought in NYC got into a Co-op in TriBeCa when the area was -relatively- cheaper. The rest don't bother, not necessarily because they can't, but because they don't think its worth it. Manhattan itself can be transient- a great place to live when you're single, a young couple, etc. but not necessarily when you have school aged kids. My cousin and her husband rent a two bedroom in the Village and figure by the time their one year old is ready for kindergarten they'll have either moved to Boston or find a home in the burbs. But for now they like the convenience of the city, and would probably laugh if someone said they were lower class because they rent.

Hope they are saving aggressively for a down payment. When we lived in NY we found it challenging to save with rent that is essentially the same as a mortgage payment. I'm not quite sure our remaining friends in NY are really saving any money.

Well i sure hope they all aren't calling themselves middle class! jk.

[Anonymous]

I am lower rich high class.. Just making $430k ...