Enough is enough with the redshirting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure you can do it but why do you want a way older kid in the grade? It’s just annoying

A ten year old doesn’t make sense. Redshirting gets you to 9 years old not 10 unless they are ten for like, a week in June or something.

My DD is in 4th, but last year, there were a handful of spring redshirts that turned 10 in March/April/May. I'm not sure I've ever heard of kids being 10 before Christmas though.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public schools aren’t retaining anyone because that costs $$$. I’ve only heard of retention being offered when a kid missed a lot of a grade due to something like a serious medical issue, or at the end of the Covid school years - 2019-20 or 2020-21 - if a kid didn’t progress during the closures. My neighbor had a young for grade 1st grader in 20-21 and FCPS did offer to let her repeat 1st in person.

But let this thread be a heads up to everyone: redshirting is common, perhaps even expected, in private schools, especially for the younger for grade kids. So plan accordingly.

+1, and I would say it’s increasingly common in public school among parents who read the data on developmentally appropriate settings for 4-5. So, assume if you send a four year old they’ll be youngest by a year+, and an early five year old by a year. None of this is secret, or unavailable information to you.

Since most public schools do an age cut off around September 1st, the number of kids attending K at age 4 is very small (and even people who complain about excessive redshirting don't complain about redshirting a kid who would be 4 during the "normal" cut off). In NY (which is the only place with a midyear cut off that results in a lot of 4 year olds being eligible for K) it's common for people to redshirt those kids and no one complains about it.

The only redshirting people complain about is when people start redshirting kids who would be well over 5 when starting K but they hold them back anyway. Yes, in some privates that's common place, but the school generally encourages it and everyone has a chance to do it -- they like having an older class of K students and often they will strongly encourage redshirting summer or late spring birthdays. Some schools even offer a transitional year for young K students before taking the regular K class, so you still wind up with a fairly age-homogenous class.

But in public that's not the case, and when some parents start deciding their April or May birthday kid needs another year, it can leave other parents stuck with the consequences of those actions without warning. No one is going to get mad that a parent redshirted so their kid could start K at 5, but when you see kids starting K at 6 and a half, it becomes an issue.

Please yell at me now and tell me I'm a "crazy anti-redshirter" for agreeing this specific issue is a problem.

As someone with a young for grade kid, I think it is absolutely insane to consider this a problem whatsoever, and really makes you sound like someone who has no experience with any real problems in life.

My kid with an August birthday who I sent on time (she started K at 5 but was among the youngest in her grade) was viciously bullied by a redshirted child in 1st grade. My kid was 6 years old for the entirety of 1st grade. The bullying child turned 8 in September and was signficantly bigger and taller. Redshirting played a major role in the bullying because while this one child was the leader, there were many older kids in the classroom due to redshirting and when the bully would attack/provoke my kid, she'd cry, and then all the older kids would round on her and call her a baby and tease her for being small and young (she is average height for her age).

I had no idea how prevalent redshirting was when I enrolled my kid in K. She was academically and socially ready for a K classroom full of 5 and 6 year old children. In fact she continues to be at the top of her grade academically and she is well liked by teachers for being a good listener who follows directions and is helpful and kind in the classroom (something that apparently the extra years of preschool or staying home did not help instill in these redshirted kids who are merely bigger and older, not more mature).

I absolutely resent that my child's classroom environment has been dominated by older children who I think should have spent their 5/6 year in K learning out to function in elementary school, but instead spent it elsewhere and arrived at elementary school with their own ideas about how school should work. I resent how common bullying and relational aggression are at the school because of these older-but-less-mature kids.

Call me a crazy anti-redshirted if you want. I think redshirting sucks. Kids should start school at the same age so that they learn the same skills and are generally at the same developmental level. Kids with developmental delays can/should be held back to accommodate their delays, but it shouldn't be at the parents' discretion.

We will be moving school districts before these older kids hit puberty in 3rd grade and we have to deal with that.

As a parent who doesn't care about redshirting one way or another (and has both middle-of-age-for grade and young-for-grade kids, none old-for-grade): the bullying isn't because your kid is small. Bullies will find literally anything to gang up on kids about. One of my kids was bulled for not watching Spongebob Squarepants in a late elementary grade. Does that make sense as a thing to mock a kid over? No. But my kid was a prickly and kind of hard-to-get-to-know kid, so of course they were a target. The actual thing to make fun of was incidental to the act of piling on.

And it's possible (probable?) this older kid is lashing out because:
- they do have delays and you have no idea and the delays are social
- they feel embarassed about your kid doing as well when they are so much older.

PP here. Of course bullying can happen for a whole variety of reasons.

But at my kid's specific school, in specific classrooms where there are a large percent of redshirted kids including one that was significantly older, the bullying was closely related to having a cohort of older, bigger, unsocialized kids. My DD was not the only child targeted, but all the children who were bullied were "on time" kids who were on the younger end of normal for the grade. All the bullies were the oldest kids in class.

Also, it's not just about the age difference. It's also that these redshirted kids were not socialized into elementary school when they were young enough for it help. They arrived at K too old and less malleable. In my child's 1st grade class, those older kids RAN the classroom. This year my kid is in 2nd and due to the bullying issues last year, my kid and others who were targeted are in a classroom without any of the much older kids. The classroom is significantly better, with less conflict and fewer behavioral issues.

I don't have any issue with moderate redshirting for kids with summer birthdays. I don't think you should be allowed to redshirt a kid with a birthday during the school year unless there is a clear reason why delaying kindergarten will help. And I actually think a lot of developmental delays might be made worse by redshirting unless you can show the kids are going to get services to improve the situation. Perhaps some of these delays would be best addressed by having the kid in a classroom with other kids and receiving services through the school.

I honestly do not understand why you continue to keep your child in a school where your DC experiences significant bullying and you believe the classroom activities and level are so wildly inappropriate. It seems weird to me.

You seem very ignorant of the reality that most parents experience. Most parents can’t just switch schools out of the blue.

Right. Which leads parents to make careful decisions about when their kids start school. For example— not sending a kid who may struggle to kindergarten too early.

Or, send our kid and get them the help they need so they don’t struggle.

What "help" do you recommend?

IEP’s. Soooo many kids have them. Professional help often paid for by the school district. I’ve see kids get services for adhd, dyslexia, occupational therapy… I think many people like you overestimate your ability and underestimate the ability of professionals with undergrad and grad degrees in education and therapy.

Redshirting doesn’t prevent anyone from accessing these services and IEP. If you trust the professionals, then trust the ones that recommended to us that we hold our kids back, which is exactly what we did!

Most are saying hold back as it makes you happy. Most aren’t putting their kids in services. They also aren’t thinking of the future when these kids are in hs and they are 19-20 and taking classes with 13-14 year olds.

Why aren’t the parents of 13-14 year olds concerned and doing something different? The parents of other kids are being good parents. You can’t expect other people to pave the road for you.

Parent of young for grade high school kid here. 👋

I literally could not care less about whether my kid is in classes with older teens. And my friends with redshirted kids (who are thriving) don’t care either, the other way.

The only people who care about this are badly socialized adults who can’t teach social skills to their kids. That’s it.

I care as it’s not developmentally appropriate and huge differences between a 13-14 year and a 16-20 year old. Some older kids are great and some are really mean and bullies.

You should try homeschooling since you don't seem to think a traditional high school is appropriate.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public schools aren’t retaining anyone because that costs $$$. I’ve only heard of retention being offered when a kid missed a lot of a grade due to something like a serious medical issue, or at the end of the Covid school years - 2019-20 or 2020-21 - if a kid didn’t progress during the closures. My neighbor had a young for grade 1st grader in 20-21 and FCPS did offer to let her repeat 1st in person.

But let this thread be a heads up to everyone: redshirting is common, perhaps even expected, in private schools, especially for the younger for grade kids. So plan accordingly.

+1, and I would say it’s increasingly common in public school among parents who read the data on developmentally appropriate settings for 4-5. So, assume if you send a four year old they’ll be youngest by a year+, and an early five year old by a year. None of this is secret, or unavailable information to you.

Since most public schools do an age cut off around September 1st, the number of kids attending K at age 4 is very small (and even people who complain about excessive redshirting don't complain about redshirting a kid who would be 4 during the "normal" cut off). In NY (which is the only place with a midyear cut off that results in a lot of 4 year olds being eligible for K) it's common for people to redshirt those kids and no one complains about it.

The only redshirting people complain about is when people start redshirting kids who would be well over 5 when starting K but they hold them back anyway. Yes, in some privates that's common place, but the school generally encourages it and everyone has a chance to do it -- they like having an older class of K students and often they will strongly encourage redshirting summer or late spring birthdays. Some schools even offer a transitional year for young K students before taking the regular K class, so you still wind up with a fairly age-homogenous class.

But in public that's not the case, and when some parents start deciding their April or May birthday kid needs another year, it can leave other parents stuck with the consequences of those actions without warning. No one is going to get mad that a parent redshirted so their kid could start K at 5, but when you see kids starting K at 6 and a half, it becomes an issue.

Please yell at me now and tell me I'm a "crazy anti-redshirter" for agreeing this specific issue is a problem.

As someone with a young for grade kid, I think it is absolutely insane to consider this a problem whatsoever, and really makes you sound like someone who has no experience with any real problems in life.

My kid with an August birthday who I sent on time (she started K at 5 but was among the youngest in her grade) was viciously bullied by a redshirted child in 1st grade. My kid was 6 years old for the entirety of 1st grade. The bullying child turned 8 in September and was signficantly bigger and taller. Redshirting played a major role in the bullying because while this one child was the leader, there were many older kids in the classroom due to redshirting and when the bully would attack/provoke my kid, she'd cry, and then all the older kids would round on her and call her a baby and tease her for being small and young (she is average height for her age).

I had no idea how prevalent redshirting was when I enrolled my kid in K. She was academically and socially ready for a K classroom full of 5 and 6 year old children. In fact she continues to be at the top of her grade academically and she is well liked by teachers for being a good listener who follows directions and is helpful and kind in the classroom (something that apparently the extra years of preschool or staying home did not help instill in these redshirted kids who are merely bigger and older, not more mature).

I absolutely resent that my child's classroom environment has been dominated by older children who I think should have spent their 5/6 year in K learning out to function in elementary school, but instead spent it elsewhere and arrived at elementary school with their own ideas about how school should work. I resent how common bullying and relational aggression are at the school because of these older-but-less-mature kids.

Call me a crazy anti-redshirted if you want. I think redshirting sucks. Kids should start school at the same age so that they learn the same skills and are generally at the same developmental level. Kids with developmental delays can/should be held back to accommodate their delays, but it shouldn't be at the parents' discretion.

We will be moving school districts before these older kids hit puberty in 3rd grade and we have to deal with that.

As a parent who doesn't care about redshirting one way or another (and has both middle-of-age-for grade and young-for-grade kids, none old-for-grade): the bullying isn't because your kid is small. Bullies will find literally anything to gang up on kids about. One of my kids was bulled for not watching Spongebob Squarepants in a late elementary grade. Does that make sense as a thing to mock a kid over? No. But my kid was a prickly and kind of hard-to-get-to-know kid, so of course they were a target. The actual thing to make fun of was incidental to the act of piling on.

And it's possible (probable?) this older kid is lashing out because:
- they do have delays and you have no idea and the delays are social
- they feel embarassed about your kid doing as well when they are so much older.

PP here. Of course bullying can happen for a whole variety of reasons.

But at my kid's specific school, in specific classrooms where there are a large percent of redshirted kids including one that was significantly older, the bullying was closely related to having a cohort of older, bigger, unsocialized kids. My DD was not the only child targeted, but all the children who were bullied were "on time" kids who were on the younger end of normal for the grade. All the bullies were the oldest kids in class.

Also, it's not just about the age difference. It's also that these redshirted kids were not socialized into elementary school when they were young enough for it help. They arrived at K too old and less malleable. In my child's 1st grade class, those older kids RAN the classroom. This year my kid is in 2nd and due to the bullying issues last year, my kid and others who were targeted are in a classroom without any of the much older kids. The classroom is significantly better, with less conflict and fewer behavioral issues.

I don't have any issue with moderate redshirting for kids with summer birthdays. I don't think you should be allowed to redshirt a kid with a birthday during the school year unless there is a clear reason why delaying kindergarten will help. And I actually think a lot of developmental delays might be made worse by redshirting unless you can show the kids are going to get services to improve the situation. Perhaps some of these delays would be best addressed by having the kid in a classroom with other kids and receiving services through the school.

I honestly do not understand why you continue to keep your child in a school where your DC experiences significant bullying and you believe the classroom activities and level are so wildly inappropriate. It seems weird to me.

You seem very ignorant of the reality that most parents experience. Most parents can’t just switch schools out of the blue.

Right. Which leads parents to make careful decisions about when their kids start school. For example— not sending a kid who may struggle to kindergarten too early.

Or, send our kid and get them the help they need so they don’t struggle.

What "help" do you recommend?

IEP’s. Soooo many kids have them. Professional help often paid for by the school district. I’ve see kids get services for adhd, dyslexia, occupational therapy… I think many people like you overestimate your ability and underestimate the ability of professionals with undergrad and grad degrees in education and therapy.

IEPs are for children with disabilities. You have to qualify for them. You can't just "get an IEP."

- Professional with an undergrad and grad degree in education and psychology.

Then what is the issue you feel that you can’t send a 5 to Kinder? I’m telling you, you’re making it something it’s not. It’s not that hard. Trust me.

Some kids just need a bit more time. That’s the help. It’s so weird you can’t understand that. Professionals and parents agree. Busy bodies with faux concerns about other people’s children don’t get an opinion.

No, they don’t. They need to be in school with age appropriate peers

Could you please share the data you’re sourcing this from? That age-identical classrooms are critical to children’s success? Moreso than the developmental appropriateness of the environment? Because candidly I think you’re making this up as you go along.

My four year old and her seven year old cousin are best friends. It’s amazing to see how she brings out leadership and compassion in her older cousin and how her cousin brings out courage and creativity in her.

Heh. I think she would lose her marbles at my kids' Montessori school. My 4 year old is in class with OMG six year olds!

You can’t compare mixed-age Montessori to regular classrooms that happen to have kids who are 18-24 months older. A true Montessori model has very specific roles for kids in each of their cohorts and they rotate through those roles as they age. It’s quite deliberate and the curriculum is specifically structured for multiple ages to learn from one another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

This practice really gets exploited to give kids unfair advantage. From my own experience as the youngest one in my grade, it made me anxious and insecure.

I did great on surface but it was challenging to navigate academic, athletic and social maizes as a little girl who was sent early and then skipped a grade so most my peers were 1-3 years older than me.

That’s the issue, it gets exploited. A mom can sent her child to forest school curriculum they downloaded from etsy when they are 5 and 6 and the just start then in 2nd grade to be with same age peers. A bright child whose parents taught them anything at home would easily catch up. The entire kinder and first grade curriculum can be taught pretty easily. Most want the perceived advantage of being the “oldest and most mature” and just won’t admit it.

Did you even read her post? She’s whining about kids being older when she went early and she skipped a grade. In retrospect it doesn’t seem like she was bright enough to warrant either action.

She also struggles with corn.

I know a lot of women and no one talks like you. I can’t imagine you have any friendships in your life. If you want to feel superior by sending your super old kid to school and insulting others on a message board because you’re bored and lonely carry on.

What? Again, did you read her post? Explain how it makes sense to complain about redshirting making it so hard to be the youngest in the class when you STARTED EARLY and SKIPPED a grade?

But you are spot on that you and I would NEVER be friends, so gold star for that!

You don’t have friends. Normal socially adapted women don’t say the things you say and troll and message board.

LOL. And I’m guessing the reason you don’t have friends is because you’re pathetic and lame.

I do have friends.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public schools aren’t retaining anyone because that costs $$$. I’ve only heard of retention being offered when a kid missed a lot of a grade due to something like a serious medical issue, or at the end of the Covid school years - 2019-20 or 2020-21 - if a kid didn’t progress during the closures. My neighbor had a young for grade 1st grader in 20-21 and FCPS did offer to let her repeat 1st in person.

But let this thread be a heads up to everyone: redshirting is common, perhaps even expected, in private schools, especially for the younger for grade kids. So plan accordingly.

+1, and I would say it’s increasingly common in public school among parents who read the data on developmentally appropriate settings for 4-5. So, assume if you send a four year old they’ll be youngest by a year+, and an early five year old by a year. None of this is secret, or unavailable information to you.

Since most public schools do an age cut off around September 1st, the number of kids attending K at age 4 is very small (and even people who complain about excessive redshirting don't complain about redshirting a kid who would be 4 during the "normal" cut off). In NY (which is the only place with a midyear cut off that results in a lot of 4 year olds being eligible for K) it's common for people to redshirt those kids and no one complains about it.

The only redshirting people complain about is when people start redshirting kids who would be well over 5 when starting K but they hold them back anyway. Yes, in some privates that's common place, but the school generally encourages it and everyone has a chance to do it -- they like having an older class of K students and often they will strongly encourage redshirting summer or late spring birthdays. Some schools even offer a transitional year for young K students before taking the regular K class, so you still wind up with a fairly age-homogenous class.

But in public that's not the case, and when some parents start deciding their April or May birthday kid needs another year, it can leave other parents stuck with the consequences of those actions without warning. No one is going to get mad that a parent redshirted so their kid could start K at 5, but when you see kids starting K at 6 and a half, it becomes an issue.

Please yell at me now and tell me I'm a "crazy anti-redshirter" for agreeing this specific issue is a problem.

As someone with a young for grade kid, I think it is absolutely insane to consider this a problem whatsoever, and really makes you sound like someone who has no experience with any real problems in life.

My kid with an August birthday who I sent on time (she started K at 5 but was among the youngest in her grade) was viciously bullied by a redshirted child in 1st grade. My kid was 6 years old for the entirety of 1st grade. The bullying child turned 8 in September and was signficantly bigger and taller. Redshirting played a major role in the bullying because while this one child was the leader, there were many older kids in the classroom due to redshirting and when the bully would attack/provoke my kid, she'd cry, and then all the older kids would round on her and call her a baby and tease her for being small and young (she is average height for her age).

I had no idea how prevalent redshirting was when I enrolled my kid in K. She was academically and socially ready for a K classroom full of 5 and 6 year old children. In fact she continues to be at the top of her grade academically and she is well liked by teachers for being a good listener who follows directions and is helpful and kind in the classroom (something that apparently the extra years of preschool or staying home did not help instill in these redshirted kids who are merely bigger and older, not more mature).

I absolutely resent that my child's classroom environment has been dominated by older children who I think should have spent their 5/6 year in K learning out to function in elementary school, but instead spent it elsewhere and arrived at elementary school with their own ideas about how school should work. I resent how common bullying and relational aggression are at the school because of these older-but-less-mature kids.

Call me a crazy anti-redshirted if you want. I think redshirting sucks. Kids should start school at the same age so that they learn the same skills and are generally at the same developmental level. Kids with developmental delays can/should be held back to accommodate their delays, but it shouldn't be at the parents' discretion.

We will be moving school districts before these older kids hit puberty in 3rd grade and we have to deal with that.

As a parent who doesn't care about redshirting one way or another (and has both middle-of-age-for grade and young-for-grade kids, none old-for-grade): the bullying isn't because your kid is small. Bullies will find literally anything to gang up on kids about. One of my kids was bulled for not watching Spongebob Squarepants in a late elementary grade. Does that make sense as a thing to mock a kid over? No. But my kid was a prickly and kind of hard-to-get-to-know kid, so of course they were a target. The actual thing to make fun of was incidental to the act of piling on.

And it's possible (probable?) this older kid is lashing out because:
- they do have delays and you have no idea and the delays are social
- they feel embarassed about your kid doing as well when they are so much older.

PP here. Of course bullying can happen for a whole variety of reasons.

But at my kid's specific school, in specific classrooms where there are a large percent of redshirted kids including one that was significantly older, the bullying was closely related to having a cohort of older, bigger, unsocialized kids. My DD was not the only child targeted, but all the children who were bullied were "on time" kids who were on the younger end of normal for the grade. All the bullies were the oldest kids in class.

Also, it's not just about the age difference. It's also that these redshirted kids were not socialized into elementary school when they were young enough for it help. They arrived at K too old and less malleable. In my child's 1st grade class, those older kids RAN the classroom. This year my kid is in 2nd and due to the bullying issues last year, my kid and others who were targeted are in a classroom without any of the much older kids. The classroom is significantly better, with less conflict and fewer behavioral issues.

I don't have any issue with moderate redshirting for kids with summer birthdays. I don't think you should be allowed to redshirt a kid with a birthday during the school year unless there is a clear reason why delaying kindergarten will help. And I actually think a lot of developmental delays might be made worse by redshirting unless you can show the kids are going to get services to improve the situation. Perhaps some of these delays would be best addressed by having the kid in a classroom with other kids and receiving services through the school.

I honestly do not understand why you continue to keep your child in a school where your DC experiences significant bullying and you believe the classroom activities and level are so wildly inappropriate. It seems weird to me.

You seem very ignorant of the reality that most parents experience. Most parents can’t just switch schools out of the blue.

Right. Which leads parents to make careful decisions about when their kids start school. For example— not sending a kid who may struggle to kindergarten too early.

Or, send our kid and get them the help they need so they don’t struggle.

What "help" do you recommend?

IEP’s. Soooo many kids have them. Professional help often paid for by the school district. I’ve see kids get services for adhd, dyslexia, occupational therapy… I think many people like you overestimate your ability and underestimate the ability of professionals with undergrad and grad degrees in education and therapy.

IEPs are for children with disabilities. You have to qualify for them. You can't just "get an IEP."

- Professional with an undergrad and grad degree in education and psychology.

Then what is the issue you feel that you can’t send a 5 to Kinder? I’m telling you, you’re making it something it’s not. It’s not that hard. Trust me.

Some kids just need a bit more time. That’s the help. It’s so weird you can’t understand that. Professionals and parents agree. Busy bodies with faux concerns about other people’s children don’t get an opinion.

No, they don’t. They need to be in school with age appropriate peers

Could you please share the data you’re sourcing this from? That age-identical classrooms are critical to children’s success? Moreso than the developmental appropriateness of the environment? Because candidly I think you’re making this up as you go along.

My four year old and her seven year old cousin are best friends. It’s amazing to see how she brings out leadership and compassion in her older cousin and how her cousin brings out courage and creativity in her.

The discussion is about peers and a child held back isn't necessarily going to be a leader just because they are older. It harms everyone and when you get to HS, do you want your 14 year old in classes with 19-20 year olds as that is whats happening.

You’re right, a child who is redshirted isn’t necessarily going to be a leader and— parents who are redshirting aren’t always doing it for that reason anyway. So don’t worry about the redshirted kids.

You seem to be suggesting a freshman in high school could be taking classes with a senior— while the 20 y/o would be shockingly rare, it’s not more worrying to have a 19 than an 18 y/o senior. What is your panic about here?

It’s it rare at all. Electives, gym, health ed and math are always mixed. My 13-14 year old freshman had three classes with seniors freshman year. An elective that was auditioned in, pe and math.

Ok so please explain your anxiety around a 14 year old being in a class with a 19 year old that doesn’t exist for an 18 year old?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public schools aren’t retaining anyone because that costs $$$. I’ve only heard of retention being offered when a kid missed a lot of a grade due to something like a serious medical issue, or at the end of the Covid school years - 2019-20 or 2020-21 - if a kid didn’t progress during the closures. My neighbor had a young for grade 1st grader in 20-21 and FCPS did offer to let her repeat 1st in person.

But let this thread be a heads up to everyone: redshirting is common, perhaps even expected, in private schools, especially for the younger for grade kids. So plan accordingly.

+1, and I would say it’s increasingly common in public school among parents who read the data on developmentally appropriate settings for 4-5. So, assume if you send a four year old they’ll be youngest by a year+, and an early five year old by a year. None of this is secret, or unavailable information to you.

Since most public schools do an age cut off around September 1st, the number of kids attending K at age 4 is very small (and even people who complain about excessive redshirting don't complain about redshirting a kid who would be 4 during the "normal" cut off). In NY (which is the only place with a midyear cut off that results in a lot of 4 year olds being eligible for K) it's common for people to redshirt those kids and no one complains about it.

The only redshirting people complain about is when people start redshirting kids who would be well over 5 when starting K but they hold them back anyway. Yes, in some privates that's common place, but the school generally encourages it and everyone has a chance to do it -- they like having an older class of K students and often they will strongly encourage redshirting summer or late spring birthdays. Some schools even offer a transitional year for young K students before taking the regular K class, so you still wind up with a fairly age-homogenous class.

But in public that's not the case, and when some parents start deciding their April or May birthday kid needs another year, it can leave other parents stuck with the consequences of those actions without warning. No one is going to get mad that a parent redshirted so their kid could start K at 5, but when you see kids starting K at 6 and a half, it becomes an issue.

Please yell at me now and tell me I'm a "crazy anti-redshirter" for agreeing this specific issue is a problem.

As someone with a young for grade kid, I think it is absolutely insane to consider this a problem whatsoever, and really makes you sound like someone who has no experience with any real problems in life.

My kid with an August birthday who I sent on time (she started K at 5 but was among the youngest in her grade) was viciously bullied by a redshirted child in 1st grade. My kid was 6 years old for the entirety of 1st grade. The bullying child turned 8 in September and was signficantly bigger and taller. Redshirting played a major role in the bullying because while this one child was the leader, there were many older kids in the classroom due to redshirting and when the bully would attack/provoke my kid, she'd cry, and then all the older kids would round on her and call her a baby and tease her for being small and young (she is average height for her age).

I had no idea how prevalent redshirting was when I enrolled my kid in K. She was academically and socially ready for a K classroom full of 5 and 6 year old children. In fact she continues to be at the top of her grade academically and she is well liked by teachers for being a good listener who follows directions and is helpful and kind in the classroom (something that apparently the extra years of preschool or staying home did not help instill in these redshirted kids who are merely bigger and older, not more mature).

I absolutely resent that my child's classroom environment has been dominated by older children who I think should have spent their 5/6 year in K learning out to function in elementary school, but instead spent it elsewhere and arrived at elementary school with their own ideas about how school should work. I resent how common bullying and relational aggression are at the school because of these older-but-less-mature kids.

Call me a crazy anti-redshirted if you want. I think redshirting sucks. Kids should start school at the same age so that they learn the same skills and are generally at the same developmental level. Kids with developmental delays can/should be held back to accommodate their delays, but it shouldn't be at the parents' discretion.

We will be moving school districts before these older kids hit puberty in 3rd grade and we have to deal with that.

As a parent who doesn't care about redshirting one way or another (and has both middle-of-age-for grade and young-for-grade kids, none old-for-grade): the bullying isn't because your kid is small. Bullies will find literally anything to gang up on kids about. One of my kids was bulled for not watching Spongebob Squarepants in a late elementary grade. Does that make sense as a thing to mock a kid over? No. But my kid was a prickly and kind of hard-to-get-to-know kid, so of course they were a target. The actual thing to make fun of was incidental to the act of piling on.

And it's possible (probable?) this older kid is lashing out because:
- they do have delays and you have no idea and the delays are social
- they feel embarassed about your kid doing as well when they are so much older.

PP here. Of course bullying can happen for a whole variety of reasons.

But at my kid's specific school, in specific classrooms where there are a large percent of redshirted kids including one that was significantly older, the bullying was closely related to having a cohort of older, bigger, unsocialized kids. My DD was not the only child targeted, but all the children who were bullied were "on time" kids who were on the younger end of normal for the grade. All the bullies were the oldest kids in class.

Also, it's not just about the age difference. It's also that these redshirted kids were not socialized into elementary school when they were young enough for it help. They arrived at K too old and less malleable. In my child's 1st grade class, those older kids RAN the classroom. This year my kid is in 2nd and due to the bullying issues last year, my kid and others who were targeted are in a classroom without any of the much older kids. The classroom is significantly better, with less conflict and fewer behavioral issues.

I don't have any issue with moderate redshirting for kids with summer birthdays. I don't think you should be allowed to redshirt a kid with a birthday during the school year unless there is a clear reason why delaying kindergarten will help. And I actually think a lot of developmental delays might be made worse by redshirting unless you can show the kids are going to get services to improve the situation. Perhaps some of these delays would be best addressed by having the kid in a classroom with other kids and receiving services through the school.

I honestly do not understand why you continue to keep your child in a school where your DC experiences significant bullying and you believe the classroom activities and level are so wildly inappropriate. It seems weird to me.

You seem very ignorant of the reality that most parents experience. Most parents can’t just switch schools out of the blue.

Right. Which leads parents to make careful decisions about when their kids start school. For example— not sending a kid who may struggle to kindergarten too early.

Or, send our kid and get them the help they need so they don’t struggle.

What "help" do you recommend?

IEP’s. Soooo many kids have them. Professional help often paid for by the school district. I’ve see kids get services for adhd, dyslexia, occupational therapy… I think many people like you overestimate your ability and underestimate the ability of professionals with undergrad and grad degrees in education and therapy.

Redshirting doesn’t prevent anyone from accessing these services and IEP. If you trust the professionals, then trust the ones that recommended to us that we hold our kids back, which is exactly what we did!

Most are saying hold back as it makes you happy. Most aren’t putting their kids in services. They also aren’t thinking of the future when these kids are in hs and they are 19-20 and taking classes with 13-14 year olds.

There’s no evidence that “most aren’t putting their kids in services.” You made that up. You have no idea which kids are being held back for issues that could be alleviated with services nor do you know what services their parents are getting.

If a child is being held back for social, emotional or academic reasons the parents shoudl be forced to have them in services to get them caught up. Any issue should be addressed and not ignored and hoping that waiting a year will fix it. These kids who are held back are not age appropiate as they are being compared to much younger kids, so they are much more immature than someone on grade level and they will not have the opportunity to truely catch up as the oldest.

Forced? Forced by whom? The schools who benefit by having more mature kids causing fewer problems in the youngest grades? The same schools stretched thin who can't even provide all the services they are already obligated to provide and aren't? Just so your little boy doesn't get picked last for the basketball team because he's shorter and less coordinated? Good luck!

What an odd description. Shorter and less coordinated? you mean younger? Are you embarrassed when you watch your much older kid play against kids who are 2 years younger?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

This practice really gets exploited to give kids unfair advantage. From my own experience as the youngest one in my grade, it made me anxious and insecure.

I did great on surface but it was challenging to navigate academic, athletic and social maizes as a little girl who was sent early and then skipped a grade so most my peers were 1-3 years older than me.

That’s the issue, it gets exploited. A mom can sent her child to forest school curriculum they downloaded from etsy when they are 5 and 6 and the just start then in 2nd grade to be with same age peers. A bright child whose parents taught them anything at home would easily catch up. The entire kinder and first grade curriculum can be taught pretty easily. Most want the perceived advantage of being the “oldest and most mature” and just won’t admit it.

This.

If I'd had the resources to homeschool or private school my kid in K, I would have taken it. She is young for her grade and sensitive, and K was a tough transition because her public school did not emphasize outdoor time, play, physical movement, etc. It was a LOT of sitting and listening. It wasn't age appropriate and we all kind of hated it.

But I don't wish I'd redshirted her because even though that environment wasn't great, she's on or above grade level academically and I think it's ideal to have her in a classroom with same age peers. Yes she's on the young side but so are some of the other kids. If she were redshirted she'd be the oldest in class.

So yeah if I could have sent her to an outdoor-focused K program, maybe even K and 1st (though actually our 1st grade teacher was phenomenal and really emphasized outdoor time and by then DD was really ready for the academic focus), I might have done it just because I hate how publics handle kinder. But that doesn't mean it would be a good idea for her to go all the way through school with a younger cohort. That's not the right group for her to be in -- she should be with other kids her age.

I just wish all the kids got a gentler K experience and we would have happily skipped it if we could afford to, but then we would have transferred her into her age-appropriate class in public.

Of course it’s age appropriate. It’s school, not preschool. You and her preschool did not prepare her.

Sitting all day and almost no outdoor or physical activity time is not age appropriate for 5/6 year olds.

If you think kindergarten should be more like the rest of elementary school and that it should be geared toward 6/7 year olds, then advocate for that to be the recommended age cut off.

What doesn't make sense is to passively allow some parents to redshirt and then accommodate them by gearing kindergarten to older children. If you think kids should be at least 6 and turning 7 in K, then make that the age cut off.

This really isn't that complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

This practice really gets exploited to give kids unfair advantage. From my own experience as the youngest one in my grade, it made me anxious and insecure.

I did great on surface but it was challenging to navigate academic, athletic and social maizes as a little girl who was sent early and then skipped a grade so most my peers were 1-3 years older than me.

That’s the issue, it gets exploited. A mom can sent her child to forest school curriculum they downloaded from etsy when they are 5 and 6 and the just start then in 2nd grade to be with same age peers. A bright child whose parents taught them anything at home would easily catch up. The entire kinder and first grade curriculum can be taught pretty easily. Most want the perceived advantage of being the “oldest and most mature” and just won’t admit it.

This.

If I'd had the resources to homeschool or private school my kid in K, I would have taken it. She is young for her grade and sensitive, and K was a tough transition because her public school did not emphasize outdoor time, play, physical movement, etc. It was a LOT of sitting and listening. It wasn't age appropriate and we all kind of hated it.

But I don't wish I'd redshirted her because even though that environment wasn't great, she's on or above grade level academically and I think it's ideal to have her in a classroom with same age peers. Yes she's on the young side but so are some of the other kids. If she were redshirted she'd be the oldest in class.

So yeah if I could have sent her to an outdoor-focused K program, maybe even K and 1st (though actually our 1st grade teacher was phenomenal and really emphasized outdoor time and by then DD was really ready for the academic focus), I might have done it just because I hate how publics handle kinder. But that doesn't mean it would be a good idea for her to go all the way through school with a younger cohort. That's not the right group for her to be in -- she should be with other kids her age.

I just wish all the kids got a gentler K experience and we would have happily skipped it if we could afford to, but then we would have transferred her into her age-appropriate class in public.

Of course it’s age appropriate. It’s school, not preschool. You and her preschool did not prepare her.

Sitting all day and almost no outdoor or physical activity time is not age appropriate for 5/6 year olds.

If you think kindergarten should be more like the rest of elementary school and that it should be geared toward 6/7 year olds, then advocate for that to be the recommended age cut off.

What doesn't make sense is to passively allow some parents to redshirt and then accommodate them by gearing kindergarten to older children. If you think kids should be at least 6 and turning 7 in K, then make that the age cut off.

This really isn't that complicated.

Schools would appear more rational if “on time” didn’t include four year olds. It makes the whole system look foolish and irrational which of course means parents don’t trust the system and have to make their own choices. 5 by the first day of August for schools that start in August makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

This practice really gets exploited to give kids unfair advantage. From my own experience as the youngest one in my grade, it made me anxious and insecure.

I did great on surface but it was challenging to navigate academic, athletic and social maizes as a little girl who was sent early and then skipped a grade so most my peers were 1-3 years older than me.

That’s the issue, it gets exploited. A mom can sent her child to forest school curriculum they downloaded from etsy when they are 5 and 6 and the just start then in 2nd grade to be with same age peers. A bright child whose parents taught them anything at home would easily catch up. The entire kinder and first grade curriculum can be taught pretty easily. Most want the perceived advantage of being the “oldest and most mature” and just won’t admit it.

This.

If I'd had the resources to homeschool or private school my kid in K, I would have taken it. She is young for her grade and sensitive, and K was a tough transition because her public school did not emphasize outdoor time, play, physical movement, etc. It was a LOT of sitting and listening. It wasn't age appropriate and we all kind of hated it.

But I don't wish I'd redshirted her because even though that environment wasn't great, she's on or above grade level academically and I think it's ideal to have her in a classroom with same age peers. Yes she's on the young side but so are some of the other kids. If she were redshirted she'd be the oldest in class.

So yeah if I could have sent her to an outdoor-focused K program, maybe even K and 1st (though actually our 1st grade teacher was phenomenal and really emphasized outdoor time and by then DD was really ready for the academic focus), I might have done it just because I hate how publics handle kinder. But that doesn't mean it would be a good idea for her to go all the way through school with a younger cohort. That's not the right group for her to be in -- she should be with other kids her age.

I just wish all the kids got a gentler K experience and we would have happily skipped it if we could afford to, but then we would have transferred her into her age-appropriate class in public.

Of course it’s age appropriate. It’s school, not preschool. You and her preschool did not prepare her.

Sitting all day and almost no outdoor or physical activity time is not age appropriate for 5/6 year olds.

If you think kindergarten should be more like the rest of elementary school and that it should be geared toward 6/7 year olds, then advocate for that to be the recommended age cut off.

What doesn't make sense is to passively allow some parents to redshirt and then accommodate them by gearing kindergarten to older children. If you think kids should be at least 6 and turning 7 in K, then make that the age cut off.

This really isn't that complicated.

The kinder kids don’t sit at a desk all day. You should probably do some research on the day in the life of a K student. They are moving around all day, different stations, breaks, specials, multiple recesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public schools aren’t retaining anyone because that costs $$$. I’ve only heard of retention being offered when a kid missed a lot of a grade due to something like a serious medical issue, or at the end of the Covid school years - 2019-20 or 2020-21 - if a kid didn’t progress during the closures. My neighbor had a young for grade 1st grader in 20-21 and FCPS did offer to let her repeat 1st in person.

But let this thread be a heads up to everyone: redshirting is common, perhaps even expected, in private schools, especially for the younger for grade kids. So plan accordingly.

+1, and I would say it’s increasingly common in public school among parents who read the data on developmentally appropriate settings for 4-5. So, assume if you send a four year old they’ll be youngest by a year+, and an early five year old by a year. None of this is secret, or unavailable information to you.

Since most public schools do an age cut off around September 1st, the number of kids attending K at age 4 is very small (and even people who complain about excessive redshirting don't complain about redshirting a kid who would be 4 during the "normal" cut off). In NY (which is the only place with a midyear cut off that results in a lot of 4 year olds being eligible for K) it's common for people to redshirt those kids and no one complains about it.

The only redshirting people complain about is when people start redshirting kids who would be well over 5 when starting K but they hold them back anyway. Yes, in some privates that's common place, but the school generally encourages it and everyone has a chance to do it -- they like having an older class of K students and often they will strongly encourage redshirting summer or late spring birthdays. Some schools even offer a transitional year for young K students before taking the regular K class, so you still wind up with a fairly age-homogenous class.

But in public that's not the case, and when some parents start deciding their April or May birthday kid needs another year, it can leave other parents stuck with the consequences of those actions without warning. No one is going to get mad that a parent redshirted so their kid could start K at 5, but when you see kids starting K at 6 and a half, it becomes an issue.

Please yell at me now and tell me I'm a "crazy anti-redshirter" for agreeing this specific issue is a problem.

As someone with a young for grade kid, I think it is absolutely insane to consider this a problem whatsoever, and really makes you sound like someone who has no experience with any real problems in life.

My kid with an August birthday who I sent on time (she started K at 5 but was among the youngest in her grade) was viciously bullied by a redshirted child in 1st grade. My kid was 6 years old for the entirety of 1st grade. The bullying child turned 8 in September and was signficantly bigger and taller. Redshirting played a major role in the bullying because while this one child was the leader, there were many older kids in the classroom due to redshirting and when the bully would attack/provoke my kid, she'd cry, and then all the older kids would round on her and call her a baby and tease her for being small and young (she is average height for her age).

I had no idea how prevalent redshirting was when I enrolled my kid in K. She was academically and socially ready for a K classroom full of 5 and 6 year old children. In fact she continues to be at the top of her grade academically and she is well liked by teachers for being a good listener who follows directions and is helpful and kind in the classroom (something that apparently the extra years of preschool or staying home did not help instill in these redshirted kids who are merely bigger and older, not more mature).

I absolutely resent that my child's classroom environment has been dominated by older children who I think should have spent their 5/6 year in K learning out to function in elementary school, but instead spent it elsewhere and arrived at elementary school with their own ideas about how school should work. I resent how common bullying and relational aggression are at the school because of these older-but-less-mature kids.

Call me a crazy anti-redshirted if you want. I think redshirting sucks. Kids should start school at the same age so that they learn the same skills and are generally at the same developmental level. Kids with developmental delays can/should be held back to accommodate their delays, but it shouldn't be at the parents' discretion.

We will be moving school districts before these older kids hit puberty in 3rd grade and we have to deal with that.

As a parent who doesn't care about redshirting one way or another (and has both middle-of-age-for grade and young-for-grade kids, none old-for-grade): the bullying isn't because your kid is small. Bullies will find literally anything to gang up on kids about. One of my kids was bulled for not watching Spongebob Squarepants in a late elementary grade. Does that make sense as a thing to mock a kid over? No. But my kid was a prickly and kind of hard-to-get-to-know kid, so of course they were a target. The actual thing to make fun of was incidental to the act of piling on.

And it's possible (probable?) this older kid is lashing out because:
- they do have delays and you have no idea and the delays are social
- they feel embarassed about your kid doing as well when they are so much older.

PP here. Of course bullying can happen for a whole variety of reasons.

But at my kid's specific school, in specific classrooms where there are a large percent of redshirted kids including one that was significantly older, the bullying was closely related to having a cohort of older, bigger, unsocialized kids. My DD was not the only child targeted, but all the children who were bullied were "on time" kids who were on the younger end of normal for the grade. All the bullies were the oldest kids in class.

Also, it's not just about the age difference. It's also that these redshirted kids were not socialized into elementary school when they were young enough for it help. They arrived at K too old and less malleable. In my child's 1st grade class, those older kids RAN the classroom. This year my kid is in 2nd and due to the bullying issues last year, my kid and others who were targeted are in a classroom without any of the much older kids. The classroom is significantly better, with less conflict and fewer behavioral issues.

I don't have any issue with moderate redshirting for kids with summer birthdays. I don't think you should be allowed to redshirt a kid with a birthday during the school year unless there is a clear reason why delaying kindergarten will help. And I actually think a lot of developmental delays might be made worse by redshirting unless you can show the kids are going to get services to improve the situation. Perhaps some of these delays would be best addressed by having the kid in a classroom with other kids and receiving services through the school.

I honestly do not understand why you continue to keep your child in a school where your DC experiences significant bullying and you believe the classroom activities and level are so wildly inappropriate. It seems weird to me.

You seem very ignorant of the reality that most parents experience. Most parents can’t just switch schools out of the blue.

Right. Which leads parents to make careful decisions about when their kids start school. For example— not sending a kid who may struggle to kindergarten too early.

Or, send our kid and get them the help they need so they don’t struggle.

What "help" do you recommend?

IEP’s. Soooo many kids have them. Professional help often paid for by the school district. I’ve see kids get services for adhd, dyslexia, occupational therapy… I think many people like you overestimate your ability and underestimate the ability of professionals with undergrad and grad degrees in education and therapy.

IEPs are for children with disabilities. You have to qualify for them. You can't just "get an IEP."

- Professional with an undergrad and grad degree in education and psychology.

Then what is the issue you feel that you can’t send a 5 to Kinder? I’m telling you, you’re making it something it’s not. It’s not that hard. Trust me.

Some kids just need a bit more time. That’s the help. It’s so weird you can’t understand that. Professionals and parents agree. Busy bodies with faux concerns about other people’s children don’t get an opinion.

No, they don’t. They need to be in school with age appropriate peers

Could you please share the data you’re sourcing this from? That age-identical classrooms are critical to children’s success? Moreso than the developmental appropriateness of the environment? Because candidly I think you’re making this up as you go along.

My four year old and her seven year old cousin are best friends. It’s amazing to see how she brings out leadership and compassion in her older cousin and how her cousin brings out courage and creativity in her.

The discussion is about peers and a child held back isn't necessarily going to be a leader just because they are older. It harms everyone and when you get to HS, do you want your 14 year old in classes with 19-20 year olds as that is whats happening.

You’re right, a child who is redshirted isn’t necessarily going to be a leader and— parents who are redshirting aren’t always doing it for that reason anyway. So don’t worry about the redshirted kids.

You seem to be suggesting a freshman in high school could be taking classes with a senior— while the 20 y/o would be shockingly rare, it’s not more worrying to have a 19 than an 18 y/o senior. What is your panic about here?

It’s it rare at all. Electives, gym, health ed and math are always mixed. My 13-14 year old freshman had three classes with seniors freshman year. An elective that was auditioned in, pe and math.

Ok so please explain your anxiety around a 14 year old being in a class with a 19 year old that doesn’t exist for an 18 year old?

DP but I think it would be weird to take a PE class with a 13-19 yo age range. It wouldn't cause me anxiety, I just think it would be annoying.

I also just think 19 year olds in high school is not ideal. I don't oppose redshirting generally but I consider the term "redshirting" to refer to waiting to enroll kids with summer birthdays. So these are kids who would otherwise spend their entire senior year at 17, but thanks to redshirting will be 18 for the entirety of that year.

A 19 year old in high school isn't redshirting in my opinion (or if it is, it's redshirting run amok). It's holding back kids and if it's done without a concrete developmental reason, I just think it creates weird dynamics. There are so many phases of school where it's really beneficial to kids to be the same general age as peers (especially during puberty -- it's just better for kids to go through that at fairly similar times as peers, and the more you stretch it out the harder it is on kids, teachers, and parents). I simply don't understand why anyone would do this unless you're talking about a kid with real delays. In which case I would presume they'd also qualify for IEPs, and in that case it still might make sense to start on time since it will get you access to services and allow you to see how the child does in the classroom and provide services to address deficiencies, instead of just waiting and hoping the delay improves the situation.

Other than summer birthdays (which I view as totally at the discretion of parents -- there's no perfect solution there), redshirting just strikes me as misguided. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

This practice really gets exploited to give kids unfair advantage. From my own experience as the youngest one in my grade, it made me anxious and insecure.

I did great on surface but it was challenging to navigate academic, athletic and social maizes as a little girl who was sent early and then skipped a grade so most my peers were 1-3 years older than me.

That’s the issue, it gets exploited. A mom can sent her child to forest school curriculum they downloaded from etsy when they are 5 and 6 and the just start then in 2nd grade to be with same age peers. A bright child whose parents taught them anything at home would easily catch up. The entire kinder and first grade curriculum can be taught pretty easily. Most want the perceived advantage of being the “oldest and most mature” and just won’t admit it.

This.

If I'd had the resources to homeschool or private school my kid in K, I would have taken it. She is young for her grade and sensitive, and K was a tough transition because her public school did not emphasize outdoor time, play, physical movement, etc. It was a LOT of sitting and listening. It wasn't age appropriate and we all kind of hated it.

But I don't wish I'd redshirted her because even though that environment wasn't great, she's on or above grade level academically and I think it's ideal to have her in a classroom with same age peers. Yes she's on the young side but so are some of the other kids. If she were redshirted she'd be the oldest in class.

So yeah if I could have sent her to an outdoor-focused K program, maybe even K and 1st (though actually our 1st grade teacher was phenomenal and really emphasized outdoor time and by then DD was really ready for the academic focus), I might have done it just because I hate how publics handle kinder. But that doesn't mean it would be a good idea for her to go all the way through school with a younger cohort. That's not the right group for her to be in -- she should be with other kids her age.

I just wish all the kids got a gentler K experience and we would have happily skipped it if we could afford to, but then we would have transferred her into her age-appropriate class in public.

Of course it’s age appropriate. It’s school, not preschool. You and her preschool did not prepare her.

Sitting all day and almost no outdoor or physical activity time is not age appropriate for 5/6 year olds.

If you think kindergarten should be more like the rest of elementary school and that it should be geared toward 6/7 year olds, then advocate for that to be the recommended age cut off.

What doesn't make sense is to passively allow some parents to redshirt and then accommodate them by gearing kindergarten to older children. If you think kids should be at least 6 and turning 7 in K, then make that the age cut off.

This really isn't that complicated.

The kinder kids don’t sit at a desk all day. You should probably do some research on the day in the life of a K student. They are moving around all day, different stations, breaks, specials, multiple recesses.

Please post what school public system in the area has kindergarten children outside for more than one hour per day each day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

This practice really gets exploited to give kids unfair advantage. From my own experience as the youngest one in my grade, it made me anxious and insecure.

I did great on surface but it was challenging to navigate academic, athletic and social maizes as a little girl who was sent early and then skipped a grade so most my peers were 1-3 years older than me.

That’s the issue, it gets exploited. A mom can sent her child to forest school curriculum they downloaded from etsy when they are 5 and 6 and the just start then in 2nd grade to be with same age peers. A bright child whose parents taught them anything at home would easily catch up. The entire kinder and first grade curriculum can be taught pretty easily. Most want the perceived advantage of being the “oldest and most mature” and just won’t admit it.

This.

If I'd had the resources to homeschool or private school my kid in K, I would have taken it. She is young for her grade and sensitive, and K was a tough transition because her public school did not emphasize outdoor time, play, physical movement, etc. It was a LOT of sitting and listening. It wasn't age appropriate and we all kind of hated it.

But I don't wish I'd redshirted her because even though that environment wasn't great, she's on or above grade level academically and I think it's ideal to have her in a classroom with same age peers. Yes she's on the young side but so are some of the other kids. If she were redshirted she'd be the oldest in class.

So yeah if I could have sent her to an outdoor-focused K program, maybe even K and 1st (though actually our 1st grade teacher was phenomenal and really emphasized outdoor time and by then DD was really ready for the academic focus), I might have done it just because I hate how publics handle kinder. But that doesn't mean it would be a good idea for her to go all the way through school with a younger cohort. That's not the right group for her to be in -- she should be with other kids her age.

I just wish all the kids got a gentler K experience and we would have happily skipped it if we could afford to, but then we would have transferred her into her age-appropriate class in public.

Of course it’s age appropriate. It’s school, not preschool. You and her preschool did not prepare her.

Sitting all day and almost no outdoor or physical activity time is not age appropriate for 5/6 year olds.

If you think kindergarten should be more like the rest of elementary school and that it should be geared toward 6/7 year olds, then advocate for that to be the recommended age cut off.

What doesn't make sense is to passively allow some parents to redshirt and then accommodate them by gearing kindergarten to older children. If you think kids should be at least 6 and turning 7 in K, then make that the age cut off.

This really isn't that complicated.

Schools would appear more rational if “on time” didn’t include four year olds. It makes the whole system look foolish and irrational which of course means parents don’t trust the system and have to make their own choices. 5 by the first day of August for schools that start in August makes sense.

Except August and summer is acceptable for redshirt. I know exactly 0 kids who started at 4. Most start at 5. And no one is talking about the late spring or summer redshirts, we are talking about the kids who are pushing what is appropriate.

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Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

This practice really gets exploited to give kids unfair advantage. From my own experience as the youngest one in my grade, it made me anxious and insecure.

I did great on surface but it was challenging to navigate academic, athletic and social maizes as a little girl who was sent early and then skipped a grade so most my peers were 1-3 years older than me.

That’s the issue, it gets exploited. A mom can sent her child to forest school curriculum they downloaded from etsy when they are 5 and 6 and the just start then in 2nd grade to be with same age peers. A bright child whose parents taught them anything at home would easily catch up. The entire kinder and first grade curriculum can be taught pretty easily. Most want the perceived advantage of being the “oldest and most mature” and just won’t admit it.

This.

If I'd had the resources to homeschool or private school my kid in K, I would have taken it. She is young for her grade and sensitive, and K was a tough transition because her public school did not emphasize outdoor time, play, physical movement, etc. It was a LOT of sitting and listening. It wasn't age appropriate and we all kind of hated it.

But I don't wish I'd redshirted her because even though that environment wasn't great, she's on or above grade level academically and I think it's ideal to have her in a classroom with same age peers. Yes she's on the young side but so are some of the other kids. If she were redshirted she'd be the oldest in class.

So yeah if I could have sent her to an outdoor-focused K program, maybe even K and 1st (though actually our 1st grade teacher was phenomenal and really emphasized outdoor time and by then DD was really ready for the academic focus), I might have done it just because I hate how publics handle kinder. But that doesn't mean it would be a good idea for her to go all the way through school with a younger cohort. That's not the right group for her to be in -- she should be with other kids her age.

I just wish all the kids got a gentler K experience and we would have happily skipped it if we could afford to, but then we would have transferred her into her age-appropriate class in public.

Of course it’s age appropriate. It’s school, not preschool. You and her preschool did not prepare her.

Sitting all day and almost no outdoor or physical activity time is not age appropriate for 5/6 year olds.

If you think kindergarten should be more like the rest of elementary school and that it should be geared toward 6/7 year olds, then advocate for that to be the recommended age cut off.

What doesn't make sense is to passively allow some parents to redshirt and then accommodate them by gearing kindergarten to older children. If you think kids should be at least 6 and turning 7 in K, then make that the age cut off.

This really isn't that complicated.

Schools would appear more rational if “on time” didn’t include four year olds. It makes the whole system look foolish and irrational which of course means parents don’t trust the system and have to make their own choices. 5 by the first day of August for schools that start in August makes sense.

Except August and summer is acceptable for redshirt. I know exactly 0 kids who started at 4. Most start at 5. And no one is talking about the late spring or summer redshirts, we are talking about the kids who are pushing what is appropriate.

The kids are pushing it? Or the parents and admins who seem to think this is best for a particular child and didn't need your consent.

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Anonymous wrote:Public schools aren’t retaining anyone because that costs $$$. I’ve only heard of retention being offered when a kid missed a lot of a grade due to something like a serious medical issue, or at the end of the Covid school years - 2019-20 or 2020-21 - if a kid didn’t progress during the closures. My neighbor had a young for grade 1st grader in 20-21 and FCPS did offer to let her repeat 1st in person.

But let this thread be a heads up to everyone: redshirting is common, perhaps even expected, in private schools, especially for the younger for grade kids. So plan accordingly.

+1, and I would say it’s increasingly common in public school among parents who read the data on developmentally appropriate settings for 4-5. So, assume if you send a four year old they’ll be youngest by a year+, and an early five year old by a year. None of this is secret, or unavailable information to you.

Since most public schools do an age cut off around September 1st, the number of kids attending K at age 4 is very small (and even people who complain about excessive redshirting don't complain about redshirting a kid who would be 4 during the "normal" cut off). In NY (which is the only place with a midyear cut off that results in a lot of 4 year olds being eligible for K) it's common for people to redshirt those kids and no one complains about it.

The only redshirting people complain about is when people start redshirting kids who would be well over 5 when starting K but they hold them back anyway. Yes, in some privates that's common place, but the school generally encourages it and everyone has a chance to do it -- they like having an older class of K students and often they will strongly encourage redshirting summer or late spring birthdays. Some schools even offer a transitional year for young K students before taking the regular K class, so you still wind up with a fairly age-homogenous class.

But in public that's not the case, and when some parents start deciding their April or May birthday kid needs another year, it can leave other parents stuck with the consequences of those actions without warning. No one is going to get mad that a parent redshirted so their kid could start K at 5, but when you see kids starting K at 6 and a half, it becomes an issue.

Please yell at me now and tell me I'm a "crazy anti-redshirter" for agreeing this specific issue is a problem.

As someone with a young for grade kid, I think it is absolutely insane to consider this a problem whatsoever, and really makes you sound like someone who has no experience with any real problems in life.

My kid with an August birthday who I sent on time (she started K at 5 but was among the youngest in her grade) was viciously bullied by a redshirted child in 1st grade. My kid was 6 years old for the entirety of 1st grade. The bullying child turned 8 in September and was signficantly bigger and taller. Redshirting played a major role in the bullying because while this one child was the leader, there were many older kids in the classroom due to redshirting and when the bully would attack/provoke my kid, she'd cry, and then all the older kids would round on her and call her a baby and tease her for being small and young (she is average height for her age).

I had no idea how prevalent redshirting was when I enrolled my kid in K. She was academically and socially ready for a K classroom full of 5 and 6 year old children. In fact she continues to be at the top of her grade academically and she is well liked by teachers for being a good listener who follows directions and is helpful and kind in the classroom (something that apparently the extra years of preschool or staying home did not help instill in these redshirted kids who are merely bigger and older, not more mature).

I absolutely resent that my child's classroom environment has been dominated by older children who I think should have spent their 5/6 year in K learning out to function in elementary school, but instead spent it elsewhere and arrived at elementary school with their own ideas about how school should work. I resent how common bullying and relational aggression are at the school because of these older-but-less-mature kids.

Call me a crazy anti-redshirted if you want. I think redshirting sucks. Kids should start school at the same age so that they learn the same skills and are generally at the same developmental level. Kids with developmental delays can/should be held back to accommodate their delays, but it shouldn't be at the parents' discretion.

We will be moving school districts before these older kids hit puberty in 3rd grade and we have to deal with that.

As a parent who doesn't care about redshirting one way or another (and has both middle-of-age-for grade and young-for-grade kids, none old-for-grade): the bullying isn't because your kid is small. Bullies will find literally anything to gang up on kids about. One of my kids was bulled for not watching Spongebob Squarepants in a late elementary grade. Does that make sense as a thing to mock a kid over? No. But my kid was a prickly and kind of hard-to-get-to-know kid, so of course they were a target. The actual thing to make fun of was incidental to the act of piling on.

And it's possible (probable?) this older kid is lashing out because:
- they do have delays and you have no idea and the delays are social
- they feel embarassed about your kid doing as well when they are so much older.

PP here. Of course bullying can happen for a whole variety of reasons.

But at my kid's specific school, in specific classrooms where there are a large percent of redshirted kids including one that was significantly older, the bullying was closely related to having a cohort of older, bigger, unsocialized kids. My DD was not the only child targeted, but all the children who were bullied were "on time" kids who were on the younger end of normal for the grade. All the bullies were the oldest kids in class.

Also, it's not just about the age difference. It's also that these redshirted kids were not socialized into elementary school when they were young enough for it help. They arrived at K too old and less malleable. In my child's 1st grade class, those older kids RAN the classroom. This year my kid is in 2nd and due to the bullying issues last year, my kid and others who were targeted are in a classroom without any of the much older kids. The classroom is significantly better, with less conflict and fewer behavioral issues.

I don't have any issue with moderate redshirting for kids with summer birthdays. I don't think you should be allowed to redshirt a kid with a birthday during the school year unless there is a clear reason why delaying kindergarten will help. And I actually think a lot of developmental delays might be made worse by redshirting unless you can show the kids are going to get services to improve the situation. Perhaps some of these delays would be best addressed by having the kid in a classroom with other kids and receiving services through the school.

I honestly do not understand why you continue to keep your child in a school where your DC experiences significant bullying and you believe the classroom activities and level are so wildly inappropriate. It seems weird to me.

You seem very ignorant of the reality that most parents experience. Most parents can’t just switch schools out of the blue.

Right. Which leads parents to make careful decisions about when their kids start school. For example— not sending a kid who may struggle to kindergarten too early.

Or, send our kid and get them the help they need so they don’t struggle.

What "help" do you recommend?

IEP’s. Soooo many kids have them. Professional help often paid for by the school district. I’ve see kids get services for adhd, dyslexia, occupational therapy… I think many people like you overestimate your ability and underestimate the ability of professionals with undergrad and grad degrees in education and therapy.

IEPs are for children with disabilities. You have to qualify for them. You can't just "get an IEP."

- Professional with an undergrad and grad degree in education and psychology.

Then what is the issue you feel that you can’t send a 5 to Kinder? I’m telling you, you’re making it something it’s not. It’s not that hard. Trust me.

Some kids just need a bit more time. That’s the help. It’s so weird you can’t understand that. Professionals and parents agree. Busy bodies with faux concerns about other people’s children don’t get an opinion.

No, they don’t. They need to be in school with age appropriate peers

Could you please share the data you’re sourcing this from? That age-identical classrooms are critical to children’s success? Moreso than the developmental appropriateness of the environment? Because candidly I think you’re making this up as you go along.

My four year old and her seven year old cousin are best friends. It’s amazing to see how she brings out leadership and compassion in her older cousin and how her cousin brings out courage and creativity in her.

The discussion is about peers and a child held back isn't necessarily going to be a leader just because they are older. It harms everyone and when you get to HS, do you want your 14 year old in classes with 19-20 year olds as that is whats happening.

You’re right, a child who is redshirted isn’t necessarily going to be a leader and— parents who are redshirting aren’t always doing it for that reason anyway. So don’t worry about the redshirted kids.

You seem to be suggesting a freshman in high school could be taking classes with a senior— while the 20 y/o would be shockingly rare, it’s not more worrying to have a 19 than an 18 y/o senior. What is your panic about here?

It’s it rare at all. Electives, gym, health ed and math are always mixed. My 13-14 year old freshman had three classes with seniors freshman year. An elective that was auditioned in, pe and math.

Ok so please explain your anxiety around a 14 year old being in a class with a 19 year old that doesn’t exist for an 18 year old?

DP but I think it would be weird to take a PE class with a 13-19 yo age range. It wouldn't cause me anxiety, I just think it would be annoying.

I also just think 19 year olds in high school is not ideal. I don't oppose redshirting generally but I consider the term "redshirting" to refer to waiting to enroll kids with summer birthdays. So these are kids who would otherwise spend their entire senior year at 17, but thanks to redshirting will be 18 for the entirety of that year.

A 19 year old in high school isn't redshirting in my opinion (or if it is, it's redshirting run amok). It's holding back kids and if it's done without a concrete developmental reason, I just think it creates weird dynamics. There are so many phases of school where it's really beneficial to kids to be the same general age as peers (especially during puberty -- it's just better for kids to go through that at fairly similar times as peers, and the more you stretch it out the harder it is on kids, teachers, and parents). I simply don't understand why anyone would do this unless you're talking about a kid with real delays. In which case I would presume they'd also qualify for IEPs, and in that case it still might make sense to start on time since it will get you access to services and allow you to see how the child does in the classroom and provide services to address deficiencies, instead of just waiting and hoping the delay improves the situation.

Other than summer birthdays (which I view as totally at the discretion of parents -- there's no perfect solution there), redshirting just strikes me as misguided. Sorry.

Sorry I think this misses the crux of the question: what is it about 13-18 that is totally fine and ok but 13-19 “run amok”. No one seems to be able to articulate the problem, just keep inflating the hypothetical ages.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

This practice really gets exploited to give kids unfair advantage. From my own experience as the youngest one in my grade, it made me anxious and insecure.

I did great on surface but it was challenging to navigate academic, athletic and social maizes as a little girl who was sent early and then skipped a grade so most my peers were 1-3 years older than me.

That’s the issue, it gets exploited. A mom can sent her child to forest school curriculum they downloaded from etsy when they are 5 and 6 and the just start then in 2nd grade to be with same age peers. A bright child whose parents taught them anything at home would easily catch up. The entire kinder and first grade curriculum can be taught pretty easily. Most want the perceived advantage of being the “oldest and most mature” and just won’t admit it.

This.

If I'd had the resources to homeschool or private school my kid in K, I would have taken it. She is young for her grade and sensitive, and K was a tough transition because her public school did not emphasize outdoor time, play, physical movement, etc. It was a LOT of sitting and listening. It wasn't age appropriate and we all kind of hated it.

But I don't wish I'd redshirted her because even though that environment wasn't great, she's on or above grade level academically and I think it's ideal to have her in a classroom with same age peers. Yes she's on the young side but so are some of the other kids. If she were redshirted she'd be the oldest in class.

So yeah if I could have sent her to an outdoor-focused K program, maybe even K and 1st (though actually our 1st grade teacher was phenomenal and really emphasized outdoor time and by then DD was really ready for the academic focus), I might have done it just because I hate how publics handle kinder. But that doesn't mean it would be a good idea for her to go all the way through school with a younger cohort. That's not the right group for her to be in -- she should be with other kids her age.

I just wish all the kids got a gentler K experience and we would have happily skipped it if we could afford to, but then we would have transferred her into her age-appropriate class in public.

Of course it’s age appropriate. It’s school, not preschool. You and her preschool did not prepare her.

Sitting all day and almost no outdoor or physical activity time is not age appropriate for 5/6 year olds.

If you think kindergarten should be more like the rest of elementary school and that it should be geared toward 6/7 year olds, then advocate for that to be the recommended age cut off.

What doesn't make sense is to passively allow some parents to redshirt and then accommodate them by gearing kindergarten to older children. If you think kids should be at least 6 and turning 7 in K, then make that the age cut off.

This really isn't that complicated.

The kinder kids don’t sit at a desk all day. You should probably do some research on the day in the life of a K student. They are moving around all day, different stations, breaks, specials, multiple recesses.

Uh, I don't need to "do research" to describe my own child's experience in a public kindergarten classroom. 20 minutes of recess once a day. Long stretches of sitting at desks, a lot of worksheets and solo work. A lot of getting in line, moving to another classroom for a special, lining up again, and going back to their classroom. Too much instruction via screens (YouTube videos and programs like iReady).
This was a standard US public school just a couple years ago. This is what kindergarten is like for most public school students these days. The push to undo the Lucy Caulkins reading idiocy (which I support -- teach phonics please) has actually made this worse because schools have overcorrected and there is now a ton of phonics instruction in K. My kid spent over 2 hours a day in large or small group instruction or doing worksheets on her own. It was very, very inappropriate for the age.

And at least in public schools, this situation is a major reason for the noticeable increase in redshirting in the last 15 years -- parents understandably don't want to send 5 year olds to be in classrooms like this. But the solution is not to simply accept redshirting as normal -- this makes the problem worse by allowing schools to double down on the idea that kindergarteners should be ready to sit still for hours of academic instruction a day.

The answer is to fight back and return K to what it used to be -- an academic-light, age appropriate introduction to elementary school that actually met the needs of children and helped them prepare for the rest of elementary.