Why aren’t males attending college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the boys are flocking to Duke, Vandy, Notre Dame, and of course the SEC schools. Probably not attracted to the bullhorn babes at Brown, Columbia, Oberlin, Swarthmore, Haverford, Wesleyan. Can’t blame them.

Your "bullhorn babes" comments on every thread are tiresome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the boys are flocking to Duke, Vandy, Notre Dame, and of course the SEC schools. Probably not attracted to the bullhorn babes at Brown, Columbia, Oberlin, Swarthmore, Haverford, Wesleyan. Can’t blame them.

Your "bullhorn babes" comments on every thread are tiresome.

+100 The PP and the Bucknell pipeline to the street guy really need a new schtick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because men don’t need a college degree to make more than women.

This

Not really. People who don’t go to college tend to make less money. I do think men are more pressured to be in a breadwinner role that requires work over long term education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two boys going to T20 colleges. So, great. But I will say they both had to deal with a considerable amount of anti-boy crap from their schools. It seems like the social norm these days is very anti-male, and that sinks the weaker students. And the boo-hoo, too bad social norms among teachers, parents, and repulsive social media critters doesn't help. They're kids. They can't help being boys. And schools and society generally regard them as the enemy. And so only the strong make it through. It really is difficult for 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 year old boys to get through the garbage our society is throwing at them for being boys.

What “garbage our society is throwing at them for being boys”?

Are you talking about the expectation that they sit still all day every day with no physical activity?

Or are you talking about the expectation that they not be sexist and racist?

[Anonymous]

I think it's because a lot of boys just don't like academics or school. Part of it could be maturity, but some of it is just the way their brains are wired.

My 20 yr old DS is in college, studying CS and math, getting a 4.0 and will graduate in the spring. He will have completed his undergrad in 3 years with two degrees. I told him he should slow down, take some fun classes, study abroad, and take that extra 4th year, but he said no. He doesn't want to be in school any longer than he has to. He's always had straight As (HS unwgpa 4.0, SAT 1580), so it's not like he's not academically minded. He would just rather not be in school.

DH, who is an engineer, was similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take this out if the DCUM realm.

Look at Western Illinois University, profiled in the Wall Street Journal a few months ago.

Enrollment has plunged from 10,000 to 5000 in the last five years.

Their former director of enrollment management publicly stated that the school was suffering from a lack of white males and underrepresented minorities. The latter understandable in Macon, Illinois, the former really concerning.

Her response? Admit a significant number of students from low performing Illinois high schools with grade points of 2.25 to 2.75. Lower the grade point average to retain a Western Commitment scholarship to 2.0. Permit students with a first semester gpa 0.0 to continue. And double the financial aid pool to attract these students. The result? A 52 percent retention rate after the first year. The enrollment manager was fired - my guess is that she was doing what she was instructed to do.

Illinois schools and indeed the entire suffer from huge pension obligations - 43 percent of the budget goes towards pension obligations - leaving not much for instruction or research. With those pensions Illinois is at the top of the list in per capita public university spending; without them they are still in the top 5.

I mention all of this because the white male student shortage stands out. I am from Illinois, and my high school was very good and did not send many to the directional schools. But if you wanted a criminal justice degree and excellent job placement in law enforcement, Western was the place to go. And yes, that program - their best and largest in the school - attracted many white males. I think the challenge is males in general however.

This is a complicated subject and the escalating costs of a college education is not an easy subject to unpack. But WIU may not exist in five years - think of a Radford going poof - and Illinois public university enrollment has plunged from 380,000 in 2011 to 260,000 today and experts think it will soon head to 200,000. Since UIUC and UIC will likely continue to thrive, this spells massive retrenchment for these other schools.

There is nothing special about white males in terms of their missingness from higher ed compared to any other race

WIU thinks so. And it was said by their black director of enrollment management. She failed so you may know better. I suspect at a rural school - very rural in the heart of the best deer hunting territory in the state - white males do matter. I chuckle at this - the school is falling apart but they have a football team which plays (and gets crushed) by Big 10 teams for money. But seriously when state universities start to fail, colleges must realize they are in a grim competition for survival (except the top schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the boys are flocking to Duke, Vandy, Notre Dame, and of course the SEC schools. Probably not attracted to the bullhorn babes at Brown, Columbia, Oberlin, Swarthmore, Haverford, Wesleyan. Can’t blame them.

Uh…no. The non-selective SEC schools are all like 60% female, with some approaching 70%.

All selective schools are around 50/50 because they receive tons of applications relative to their slots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the boys are flocking to Duke, Vandy, Notre Dame, and of course the SEC schools. Probably not attracted to the bullhorn babes at Brown, Columbia, Oberlin, Swarthmore, Haverford, Wesleyan. Can’t blame them.

Uh…no. The non-selective SEC schools are all like 60% female, with some approaching 70%.

All selective schools are around 50/50 because they receive tons of applications relative to their slots.

Marginal women go to college. Marginal men are more likely to choose another career path.

There are fewer decent paying jobs available to women who don't go to college. You can wait tables or be a daycare provider or work retail or work some kind healthcare job. The pay is so-so.

Guys are more likely to go into a trade. They have access to better paying jobs without an education. They have more choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the boys are flocking to Duke, Vandy, Notre Dame, and of course the SEC schools. Probably not attracted to the bullhorn babes at Brown, Columbia, Oberlin, Swarthmore, Haverford, Wesleyan. Can’t blame them.

Uh…no. The non-selective SEC schools are all like 60% female, with some approaching 70%.

All selective schools are around 50/50 because they receive tons of applications relative to their slots.

Marginal women go to college. Marginal men are more likely to choose another career path.

There are fewer decent paying jobs available to women who don't go to college. You can wait tables or be a daycare provider or work retail or work some kind healthcare job. The pay is so-so.

Guys are more likely to go into a trade. They have access to better paying jobs without an education. They have more choices.

This is true. The female “trades” don’t make anything. They’re service workers. But, they do have access to the men in the trades. The well-educated female professional are left with a diminishing number of men as partners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the boys are flocking to Duke, Vandy, Notre Dame, and of course the SEC schools. Probably not attracted to the bullhorn babes at Brown, Columbia, Oberlin, Swarthmore, Haverford, Wesleyan. Can’t blame them.

Uh…no. The non-selective SEC schools are all like 60% female, with some approaching 70%.

All selective schools are around 50/50 because they receive tons of applications relative to their slots.

Marginal women go to college. Marginal men are more likely to choose another career path.

There are fewer decent paying jobs available to women who don't go to college. You can wait tables or be a daycare provider or work retail or work some kind healthcare job. The pay is so-so.

Guys are more likely to go into a trade. They have access to better paying jobs without an education. They have more choices.

Except too many men aren’t going to college or into the trades…they are literally doing nothing.

It’s a main reason non-college educated marrying rates are much lower vs college-educated.

BTW, most men in a trade have an associates degree and do get classified as college educated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The expectation for kids to be perfect (all As, ECs curated, super scheduled days) beginning in 9th grade does not match where most boys are developmentally at age 14. Girls are ahead here. So they start off behind and it is hard to catch up.

People like this are the problem and there are now far more supports and things for girls than boys. Our boys can have all a's, EC curated, adn super scheduled days, mine do.

This isn't about YOUR boys. Yes, obviously there are boys in college -- but not as many as there used to be. That's the topic - though we are all fascinated by how wonderful your boys are, the discussion is about boys generally and the cause of these statistics. The cause is not: no one is as great a parent as you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two boys going to T20 colleges. So, great. But I will say they both had to deal with a considerable amount of anti-boy crap from their schools. It seems like the social norm these days is very anti-male, and that sinks the weaker students. And the boo-hoo, too bad social norms among teachers, parents, and repulsive social media critters doesn't help. They're kids. They can't help being boys. And schools and society generally regard them as the enemy. And so only the strong make it through. It really is difficult for 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 year old boys to get through the garbage our society is throwing at them for being boys.

What “garbage our society is throwing at them for being boys”?

Are you talking about the expectation that they sit still all day every day with no physical activity?

Or are you talking about the expectation that they not be sexist and racist?

I think she means the assumption that they are, and so need to be fixed, even if they aren't. People internalize the biases they see reflected back at them; that's human nature. And in so many cases -- racial, gender, sexual orientation -- that reflection is harmful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take this out if the DCUM realm.

Look at Western Illinois University, profiled in the Wall Street Journal a few months ago.

Enrollment has plunged from 10,000 to 5000 in the last five years.

Their former director of enrollment management publicly stated that the school was suffering from a lack of white males and underrepresented minorities. The latter understandable in Macon, Illinois, the former really concerning.

Her response? Admit a significant number of students from low performing Illinois high schools with grade points of 2.25 to 2.75. Lower the grade point average to retain a Western Commitment scholarship to 2.0. Permit students with a first semester gpa 0.0 to continue. And double the financial aid pool to attract these students. The result? A 52 percent retention rate after the first year. The enrollment manager was fired - my guess is that she was doing what she was instructed to do.

Illinois schools and indeed the entire suffer from huge pension obligations - 43 percent of the budget goes towards pension obligations - leaving not much for instruction or research. With those pensions Illinois is at the top of the list in per capita public university spending; without them they are still in the top 5.

I mention all of this because the white male student shortage stands out. I am from Illinois, and my high school was very good and did not send many to the directional schools. But if you wanted a criminal justice degree and excellent job placement in law enforcement, Western was the place to go. And yes, that program - their best and largest in the school - attracted many white males. I think the challenge is males in general however.

This is a complicated subject and the escalating costs of a college education is not an easy subject to unpack. But WIU may not exist in five years - think of a Radford going poof - and Illinois public university enrollment has plunged from 380,000 in 2011 to 260,000 today and experts think it will soon head to 200,000. Since UIUC and UIC will likely continue to thrive, this spells massive retrenchment for these other schools.

There is nothing special about white males in terms of their missingness from higher ed compared to any other race

WIU thinks so. And it was said by their black director of enrollment management. She failed so you may know better. I suspect at a rural school - very rural in the heart of the best deer hunting territory in the state - white males do matter. I chuckle at this - the school is falling apart but they have a football team which plays (and gets crushed) by Big 10 teams for money. But seriously when state universities start to fail, colleges must realize they are in a grim competition for survival (except the top schools).

DP: Did the source discuss the decline in the rural population in Illinois? They have lost population every year for over a decade now -- in 2023, 87 out of 102 counties lost population.

[Anonymous]

A lot of teachers talk about the disappearing middle. The good male students are doing just fine. Their parents read to them when they were toddlers. They signed them up for various activities and sports. They supported their interests. These boys grew up with expectations they'd go to a good college, and they needed to work for it in a very competitive environment.

It's not a big deal for these boys. The lack of recess when they were little, and some of the white straight boys are bad dogma they'd hear, could be dealt with when they have other outlets. But the lack of recess and free time when boys can do their thing and compete and learn how to socialize has been problematic.

That's why sports are so important for young boys today. They are not getting any of that normal socialization in schools today ever since No Child Left Behind, the Bush era thing that pretty much destroyed a lot of boys. All tests all the time is not how 10 year old boys roll. No Child Left Behind has been a disaster for so many boys. They need the free time and the running around with other boys to get it together.

Boys are pretty tribal. And they need to find their tribe. Schools aren't the place for that anymore because of Bush and then the progressives that made every interaction very delicate. So parents need to accommodate that and get their boys involved in life outside of school. Schools suck today for a boy's normal social development.

So what you see today are the well to do boys with educated parents who care are doing fine. Those boys have other outlets to shine.

But for boys without involved parents who are unaware of how miserable school can be for boys today? They often disappear and retreat from real life. Most schools suck today when it comes to the healthy development of boys - especially elementary and middle schools. Then add phones and social media. And they are checked out.

So the lesson is bring back 90 minutes of unstructured recess in elementary school every day so boys can work it out. And not grow up to be feral and isolated. Or have the money and time to get these boys involved with competitive sports and other team activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of teachers talk about the disappearing middle. The good male students are doing just fine. Their parents read to them when they were toddlers. They signed them up for various activities and sports. They supported their interests. These boys grew up with expectations they'd go to a good college, and they needed to work for it in a very competitive environment.

It's not a big deal for these boys. The lack of recess when they were little, and some of the white straight boys are bad dogma they'd hear, could be dealt with when they have other outlets. But the lack of recess and free time when boys can do their thing and compete and learn how to socialize has been problematic.

That's why sports are so important for young boys today. They are not getting any of that normal socialization in schools today ever since No Child Left Behind, the Bush era thing that pretty much destroyed a lot of boys. All tests all the time is not how 10 year old boys roll. No Child Left Behind has been a disaster for so many boys. They need the free time and the running around with other boys to get it together.

Boys are pretty tribal. And they need to find their tribe. Schools aren't the place for that anymore because of Bush and then the progressives that made every interaction very delicate. So parents need to accommodate that and get their boys involved in life outside of school. Schools suck today for a boy's normal social development.

So what you see today are the well to do boys with educated parents who care are doing fine. Those boys have other outlets to shine.

But for boys without involved parents who are unaware of how miserable school can be for boys today? They often disappear and retreat from real life. Most schools suck today when it comes to the healthy development of boys - especially elementary and middle schools. Then add phones and social media. And they are checked out.

So the lesson is bring back 90 minutes of unstructured recess in elementary school every day so boys can work it out. And not grow up to be feral and isolated. Or have the money and time to get these boys involved with competitive sports and other team activities.

I don’t think there’s any proof that long recess is why boys are doomed. If that were true, we’d see behavioral reports and expulsions at schools with longer recesses are less.