NFL Kicker Harrison Butker’s unhinged commencement speech

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well his jersey is the number one selling jersey, so it means people don’t care about woke BS and support family values.

The city of KC doxxed him and no charges are being filed against the people who did and they’re getting fired at the very least.

Most men and married people are supporting what he said and we no issues.

So I hope he stays kicking in the NFL for a long time, but with a team in a city who won’t try to have him harmed.

Oh and this supposed mass exodus of women who are going to not watch the NFL now…ok…no women were anyways

Really? "Most women and married people are supporting what he said"? Where is that? I'm pretty sure you don't speak for "most women and married people."

Well I am a married feminist wife and mother and I have no issues with what he said.

Is it really so wrong for a woman to choose to stay at home and raise kids?

Are you Catholic?

No. I am an atheist.

Well, then you too uneducated to know how many things he said that are against the Catholic Church. Have you ever heard of staying in your lane?

Do not speak for Catholic women because his speech is blasphemous

Stop. Nothing he said was blasphemous. It was standard catholic thought. And mainstream American thought.

I wouldn't say standard Catholic thought. A theme of his speech was the pervasiveness of disorder and chaos, including in the clerical ranks. Anti-clericalism does have a strong tradition in the Catholic Church, but I wouldn't call it standard. His theory is that IVF and abortion are the result of this pervasiveness of disorder (he did not say either itself was disordered). This theory is very much his own thought and is not standard Catholic thought. Not that it is in any way blasphemous or heretical.

The same could be said about his thoughts on natural family planning. NFP is considered not contrary to Catholic teaching, not Catholic teaching itself so he is not a heretic for showing disdain for it. Again not standard Catholic thought.

This is one line that came closest to questionable for an orthodox Catholic: "...when you embrace tradition, success, worldly and spiritual will follow." The intertwining of spiritual and worldly success is generally eschewed, but again the comment goes right up to the edge but not over it.

yeah that was NOT mainstream Catholic. Citing Josemaria Escriva was kind of the big tell …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this whole thread is a bunch of whacky lefty extremists whining about people they perceive as extremists on the other side. Total clown show.

It’s wacky and extremist to reject the blanket argument that women’s primary goal in life is to marry, have kids, and be a homemaker?? Wow.

It is wacky and extremist to tell any members of a religious congregation what they should or should not believe amongst themselves.

He used the word “vocation” which has a very specific, doctrinal meaning within the Catholic Church. Nobody blinked in that audience because they know exactly what he means by that word. My guess is that you are offended because you are hearing that word in secular coding.

I read your post and just feel sorry you’re so confined by regressive ideology. I am wishing you well that you might one day become a more open minded and well rounded person.

I thank you for your well wishes. I’ll pray that someday you may learn tolerance for religious minorities.

Is Catholicism a religious minority?

Only 1/5 of the United States is Catholic. But it’s probably the largest religious group unless you count Christianity as a whole. Catholicism is a type of Christianity.

But the person you’re responding to does not understand Catholicism nor do they understand vocation. Also Jesus teaches that the greatest is not getting married. Get married weak because of lust. That is what the church teaches.

Like Eve biting the apple the previous poster up his blasphemous speech because it’s validating her life choices.

I’m sure most people are capable of understanding what you are referring to by “vocation”, even if they aren’t Christian. These aren’t some super ideas in a club. Just because I’m not Catholic doesn’t mean I can’t get the general gist.

Women get a role to play. Men get a role. Somehow the roles always seem to benefit the men in terms of authority, and in the modern age this could be interpreted as basically oppression, or internalized misogyny if you’re part of it all as a women, but hey who’s counting.

We all “understand” just fine. You’re not part of some super higher calling that is impossible to behold from the outside.

You said that you understood what the word “vocation” means in the Catholic Church. That is exactly exactly what you said…
In no way shape or form is the word vocation ever used in the Catholic Church to refer to being a wife and/or mother.

There is nothing general about the rules of Catholicism. There is no gist. It’s very specific. It’s quite illogical and that’s why you can’t apply logic to it either.

It’s hilarious that you are hearing that word and interpreting it’s as a secular word and then saying someone else is.

It’s also OK that you’re only a wife and or mother and that you could not dedicate your life to serving God, Though Jesus does think that is second fiddle to serving God, even for men.

You’re not Catholic, you don’t understand Catholicism, No you don’t understand that speech was blasphemous, I’m not sure why you’re on this thread.

As a catholic, who went to catholic school, etc, what you are describing sounds nothing like catholicism. It's not legalistic (in fact catholic schools use the Socratic method, the process of discernment is very important, and they have canonized several philosophers as saints).

Vocation is used to describe devoting your life to a purpose and a role. That role can be specific (priest, mother, fisher) or general (care of the poor, as catholic icon Mother Theresa did). Being a homemaker can absolutely be a vocation.

You might have some experience with catholic teaching but it appears to be very limited. If it functioned as you said, it would look like Islam, with lots of clerics to interpret rules. Catholics use a western philosophy approach (Google catholic discernment).

No it’s not. Vocation is not used in the Catholic Church to mean mom and wife.

No thanks with respect to googling my religion. I have the catechism and 50 years of Catholic education. You can take your pseudo Christianity and teach whatever BS you want to your “flock” but this speech was blasphemous in the context of Catholic teachings,

DP. Please get over yourself and your smug, self-appointed role here as the explainer of all things Catholic. No one cares. He wasn't using the word "vocation" as you are insisting. This is how he was using the word, and he applied it to both mothers AND fathers:

"a summons or strong inclination to a particular state or course of action"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vocation

Sure but the proper “vocation” of women is to be mothers and stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this whole thread is a bunch of whacky lefty extremists whining about people they perceive as extremists on the other side. Total clown show.

It’s wacky and extremist to reject the blanket argument that women’s primary goal in life is to marry, have kids, and be a homemaker?? Wow.

It is wacky and extremist to tell any members of a religious congregation what they should or should not believe amongst themselves.

He used the word “vocation” which has a very specific, doctrinal meaning within the Catholic Church. Nobody blinked in that audience because they know exactly what he means by that word. My guess is that you are offended because you are hearing that word in secular coding.

I read your post and just feel sorry you’re so confined by regressive ideology. I am wishing you well that you might one day become a more open minded and well rounded person.

I thank you for your well wishes. I’ll pray that someday you may learn tolerance for religious minorities.

Is Catholicism a religious minority?

Only 1/5 of the United States is Catholic. But it’s probably the largest religious group unless you count Christianity as a whole. Catholicism is a type of Christianity.

But the person you’re responding to does not understand Catholicism nor do they understand vocation. Also Jesus teaches that the greatest is not getting married. Get married weak because of lust. That is what the church teaches.

Like Eve biting the apple the previous poster up his blasphemous speech because it’s validating her life choices.

I’m sure most people are capable of understanding what you are referring to by “vocation”, even if they aren’t Christian. These aren’t some super ideas in a club. Just because I’m not Catholic doesn’t mean I can’t get the general gist.

Women get a role to play. Men get a role. Somehow the roles always seem to benefit the men in terms of authority, and in the modern age this could be interpreted as basically oppression, or internalized misogyny if you’re part of it all as a women, but hey who’s counting.

We all “understand” just fine. You’re not part of some super higher calling that is impossible to behold from the outside.

You said that you understood what the word “vocation” means in the Catholic Church. That is exactly exactly what you said…
In no way shape or form is the word vocation ever used in the Catholic Church to refer to being a wife and/or mother.

There is nothing general about the rules of Catholicism. There is no gist. It’s very specific. It’s quite illogical and that’s why you can’t apply logic to it either.

It’s hilarious that you are hearing that word and interpreting it’s as a secular word and then saying someone else is.

It’s also OK that you’re only a wife and or mother and that you could not dedicate your life to serving God, Though Jesus does think that is second fiddle to serving God, even for men.

You’re not Catholic, you don’t understand Catholicism, No you don’t understand that speech was blasphemous, I’m not sure why you’re on this thread.

As a catholic, who went to catholic school, etc, what you are describing sounds nothing like catholicism. It's not legalistic (in fact catholic schools use the Socratic method, the process of discernment is very important, and they have canonized several philosophers as saints).

Vocation is used to describe devoting your life to a purpose and a role. That role can be specific (priest, mother, fisher) or general (care of the poor, as catholic icon Mother Theresa did). Being a homemaker can absolutely be a vocation.

You might have some experience with catholic teaching but it appears to be very limited. If it functioned as you said, it would look like Islam, with lots of clerics to interpret rules. Catholics use a western philosophy approach (Google catholic discernment).

No it’s not. Vocation is not used in the Catholic Church to mean mom and wife.

No thanks with respect to googling my religion. I have the catechism and 50 years of Catholic education. You can take your pseudo Christianity and teach whatever BS you want to your “flock” but this speech was blasphemous in the context of Catholic teachings,

DP. Please get over yourself and your smug, self-appointed role here as the explainer of all things Catholic. No one cares. He wasn't using the word "vocation" as you are insisting. This is how he was using the word, and he applied it to both mothers AND fathers:

"a summons or strong inclination to a particular state or course of action"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vocation

Sure but the proper “vocation” of women is to be mothers and stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well his jersey is the number one selling jersey, so it means people don’t care about woke BS and support family values.

The city of KC doxxed him and no charges are being filed against the people who did and they’re getting fired at the very least.

Most men and married people are supporting what he said and we no issues.

So I hope he stays kicking in the NFL for a long time, but with a team in a city who won’t try to have him harmed.

Oh and this supposed mass exodus of women who are going to not watch the NFL now…ok…no women were anyways

Really? "Most women and married people are supporting what he said"? Where is that? I'm pretty sure you don't speak for "most women and married people."

Well I am a married feminist wife and mother and I have no issues with what he said.

Is it really so wrong for a woman to choose to stay at home and raise kids?

“I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you,” Butker said.

“How many of you are sitting here now, about to cross this stage, and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.”

No feminist agrees with what he says. Feminists believe women make their own path, and that is up to each individual woman. He never articulates specific diabolical lies, he merely implicates women with careers. And who says "most excited about your marriage" as if it's already in the works? Awful rhetoric.

My husband would say being a husband and dad are the most important parts of his life, but Buttkcker isn't going around reminding men of that. Because he doesn't see strong men in the workforce as a threat. He does see strong women as such, no question.

And some women’s path is to stay home and raise children.

I have known several high powered women (law firm partners, etc) who have said literally the same thing - their children and family are the most important thing in their lives. Buetker also did say that regarding himself in his remarks. Did you even listen to the entire thing?

Did he say men's true vocation started when they became husbands and fathers? I might agree with you if he said the exact same things to men, but he didn't. He told men to embrace their masculinity (whatever that means).

He said most of modern society's ills are due to men not pulling their weight inside the home. If he said about women what he said about men in that speech, the entire feminist braintrust of America would have imploded and become a back hole, hovering over Oberlin, sucking in all in its orbit to eternal doom.

I didn't hear him say that men should be free to choose to be homemakers just like women do, that this should be a choice any parent can make. Where did you hear that?

Listened to the entire speech. Not edited clips. He spent most of the speech talking about men's duties at home. He didn't say they should be free to be homemakers. He said men not being involved in home life is causing social ills like a rise in violence.

I'm pretty sure it's actually the guns.

Lots of societies have guns. Not many societies are as violent as ours. Fatherlessness is strongly correlated with terrible life outcomes. I had a deadbeat dad, and I think we need more men that insist that masculinity is about responsibility. I suspect the people reacting to this speech for the crime of not parroting the "yaas kings and queens, go get some money" line are not actually aware of how terrible bad family lives are for kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well his jersey is the number one selling jersey, so it means people don’t care about woke BS and support family values.

The city of KC doxxed him and no charges are being filed against the people who did and they’re getting fired at the very least.

Most men and married people are supporting what he said and we no issues.

So I hope he stays kicking in the NFL for a long time, but with a team in a city who won’t try to have him harmed.

Oh and this supposed mass exodus of women who are going to not watch the NFL now…ok…no women were anyways

Really? "Most women and married people are supporting what he said"? Where is that? I'm pretty sure you don't speak for "most women and married people."

Well I am a married feminist wife and mother and I have no issues with what he said.

Is it really so wrong for a woman to choose to stay at home and raise kids?

“I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you,” Butker said.

“How many of you are sitting here now, about to cross this stage, and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.”

No feminist agrees with what he says. Feminists believe women make their own path, and that is up to each individual woman. He never articulates specific diabolical lies, he merely implicates women with careers. And who says "most excited about your marriage" as if it's already in the works? Awful rhetoric.

My husband would say being a husband and dad are the most important parts of his life, but Buttkcker isn't going around reminding men of that. Because he doesn't see strong men in the workforce as a threat. He does see strong women as such, no question.

And some women’s path is to stay home and raise children.

I have known several high powered women (law firm partners, etc) who have said literally the same thing - their children and family are the most important thing in their lives. Buetker also did say that regarding himself in his remarks. Did you even listen to the entire thing?

Did he say men's true vocation started when they became husbands and fathers? I might agree with you if he said the exact same things to men, but he didn't. He told men to embrace their masculinity (whatever that means).

“She is the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father”

Ok. It's funny, though, that his entire Instagram feed is nothing but photos of himself wearing expensive suits (many of which are rather feminine in style).

Validating my belief that the left are the most rigid enforcers of gender norms. Suit must be masculine! Girls who don't like pink are actually boys! Many such cases.

LOLOLOLOLOL

Are you saying you are quite relaxed about men in drag? Okay. Sure.

I'm saying that in the south, it's popular for men to wear pastel suiting and liberals in the north melt down about it because they can't comprehend that a man can wear pink without actually being a little girl on the inside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well his jersey is the number one selling jersey, so it means people don’t care about woke BS and support family values.

The city of KC doxxed him and no charges are being filed against the people who did and they’re getting fired at the very least.

Most men and married people are supporting what he said and we no issues.

So I hope he stays kicking in the NFL for a long time, but with a team in a city who won’t try to have him harmed.

Oh and this supposed mass exodus of women who are going to not watch the NFL now…ok…no women were anyways

Really? "Most women and married people are supporting what he said"? Where is that? I'm pretty sure you don't speak for "most women and married people."

Well I am a married feminist wife and mother and I have no issues with what he said.

Is it really so wrong for a woman to choose to stay at home and raise kids?

“I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you,” Butker said.

“How many of you are sitting here now, about to cross this stage, and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.”

No feminist agrees with what he says. Feminists believe women make their own path, and that is up to each individual woman. He never articulates specific diabolical lies, he merely implicates women with careers. And who says "most excited about your marriage" as if it's already in the works? Awful rhetoric.

My husband would say being a husband and dad are the most important parts of his life, but Buttkcker isn't going around reminding men of that. Because he doesn't see strong men in the workforce as a threat. He does see strong women as such, no question.

And some women’s path is to stay home and raise children.

I have known several high powered women (law firm partners, etc) who have said literally the same thing - their children and family are the most important thing in their lives. Buetker also did say that regarding himself in his remarks. Did you even listen to the entire thing?

Did he say men's true vocation started when they became husbands and fathers? I might agree with you if he said the exact same things to men, but he didn't. He told men to embrace their masculinity (whatever that means).

He said most of modern society's ills are due to men not pulling their weight inside the home. If he said about women what he said about men in that speech, the entire feminist braintrust of America would have imploded and become a back hole, hovering over Oberlin, sucking in all in its orbit to eternal doom.

I didn't hear him say that men should be free to choose to be homemakers just like women do, that this should be a choice any parent can make. Where did you hear that?

Listened to the entire speech. Not edited clips. He spent most of the speech talking about men's duties at home. He didn't say they should be free to be homemakers. He said men not being involved in home life is causing social ills like a rise in violence.

I'm pretty sure it's actually the guns.

Lots of societies have guns. Not many societies are as violent as ours. Fatherlessness is strongly correlated with terrible life outcomes. I had a deadbeat dad, and I think we need more men that insist that masculinity is about responsibility. I suspect the people reacting to this speech for the crime of not parroting the "yaas kings and queens, go get some money" line are not actually aware of how terrible bad family lives are for kids.

I agree, we have a problem with manners and order in this country. Even when hubs are removed we are inherently violent.

Look at the schools, kids in public schools are a disorganized rabble, fights, teen pregnancies, drugs and gangs.

Other countries don’t have this issue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well his jersey is the number one selling jersey, so it means people don’t care about woke BS and support family values.

The city of KC doxxed him and no charges are being filed against the people who did and they’re getting fired at the very least.

Most men and married people are supporting what he said and we no issues.

So I hope he stays kicking in the NFL for a long time, but with a team in a city who won’t try to have him harmed.

Oh and this supposed mass exodus of women who are going to not watch the NFL now…ok…no women were anyways

What??

Are you some teenager just spouting off nonsense? What a ridiculous thing to say.

How ma y women you know watch the NFL? How many are going to stop watching because he said something they didn’t like? Those that do aren’t going to care or they just won’t support him.

Thinking the NFL is going to lose tons if money by women walking away is nonsense. It’s like women complaining the WNBA makes no money yet you don’t see them rushing to buy tickets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well his jersey is the number one selling jersey, so it means people don’t care about woke BS and support family values.

The city of KC doxxed him and no charges are being filed against the people who did and they’re getting fired at the very least.

Most men and married people are supporting what he said and we no issues.

So I hope he stays kicking in the NFL for a long time, but with a team in a city who won’t try to have him harmed.

Oh and this supposed mass exodus of women who are going to not watch the NFL now…ok…no women were anyways

Really? "Most women and married people are supporting what he said"? Where is that? I'm pretty sure you don't speak for "most women and married people."

Well I am a married feminist wife and mother and I have no issues with what he said.

Is it really so wrong for a woman to choose to stay at home and raise kids?

Are you Catholic?

No. I am an atheist.

Well, then you too uneducated to know how many things he said that are against the Catholic Church. Have you ever heard of staying in your lane?

Do not speak for Catholic women because his speech is blasphemous

I have studied catholic theology and used to be catholic myself.

Have you ever heard of not making assumptions and staying in your lane? You don’t speak for catholic women either.

No Jesus and the Church (to some extent do) and his speech was blasphemous. Natural family planning is not unnatural.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well his jersey is the number one selling jersey, so it means people don’t care about woke BS and support family values.

The city of KC doxxed him and no charges are being filed against the people who did and they’re getting fired at the very least.

Most men and married people are supporting what he said and we no issues.

So I hope he stays kicking in the NFL for a long time, but with a team in a city who won’t try to have him harmed.

Oh and this supposed mass exodus of women who are going to not watch the NFL now…ok…no women were anyways

Really? "Most women and married people are supporting what he said"? Where is that? I'm pretty sure you don't speak for "most women and married people."

Well I am a married feminist wife and mother and I have no issues with what he said.

Is it really so wrong for a woman to choose to stay at home and raise kids?

Are you Catholic?

No. I am an atheist.

Well, then you too uneducated to know how many things he said that are against the Catholic Church. Have you ever heard of staying in your lane?

Do not speak for Catholic women because his speech is blasphemous

Stop. Nothing he said was blasphemous. It was standard catholic thought. And mainstream American thought.

No it wasn't he said, NFP was unnatural he railed against the Catholic church ... you have homework, please reread it and come back and give us 3 things he said that were against Catholic teachings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well his jersey is the number one selling jersey, so it means people don’t care about woke BS and support family values.

The city of KC doxxed him and no charges are being filed against the people who did and they’re getting fired at the very least.

Most men and married people are supporting what he said and we no issues.

So I hope he stays kicking in the NFL for a long time, but with a team in a city who won’t try to have him harmed.

Oh and this supposed mass exodus of women who are going to not watch the NFL now…ok…no women were anyways

Really? "Most women and married people are supporting what he said"? Where is that? I'm pretty sure you don't speak for "most women and married people."

Well I am a married feminist wife and mother and I have no issues with what he said.

Is it really so wrong for a woman to choose to stay at home and raise kids?

“I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you,” Butker said.

“How many of you are sitting here now, about to cross this stage, and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.”

No feminist agrees with what he says. Feminists believe women make their own path, and that is up to each individual woman. He never articulates specific diabolical lies, he merely implicates women with careers. And who says "most excited about your marriage" as if it's already in the works? Awful rhetoric.

My husband would say being a husband and dad are the most important parts of his life, but Buttkcker isn't going around reminding men of that. Because he doesn't see strong men in the workforce as a threat. He does see strong women as such, no question.

And some women’s path is to stay home and raise children.

I have known several high powered women (law firm partners, etc) who have said literally the same thing - their children and family are the most important thing in their lives. Buetker also did say that regarding himself in his remarks. Did you even listen to the entire thing?

Did he say men's true vocation started when they became husbands and fathers? I might agree with you if he said the exact same things to men, but he didn't. He told men to embrace their masculinity (whatever that means).

He said most of modern society's ills are due to men not pulling their weight inside the home. If he said about women what he said about men in that speech, the entire feminist braintrust of America would have imploded and become a back hole, hovering over Oberlin, sucking in all in its orbit to eternal doom.

I didn't hear him say that men should be free to choose to be homemakers just like women do, that this should be a choice any parent can make. Where did you hear that?

Listened to the entire speech. Not edited clips. He spent most of the speech talking about men's duties at home. He didn't say they should be free to be homemakers. He said men not being involved in home life is causing social ills like a rise in violence.

I'm pretty sure it's actually the guns.

Lots of societies have guns. Not many societies are as violent as ours. Fatherlessness is strongly correlated with terrible life outcomes. I had a deadbeat dad, and I think we need more men that insist that masculinity is about responsibility. I suspect the people reacting to this speech for the crime of not parroting the "yaas kings and queens, go get some money" line are not actually aware of how terrible bad family lives are for kids.

You are truly out of touch. Gun access is the main reason kids die, it's a fact.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/darreonnadavis/2023/10/05/firearms-now-no-1-cause-of-death-for-us-children---while-drug-poisoning-enters-top-5/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this whole thread is a bunch of whacky lefty extremists whining about people they perceive as extremists on the other side. Total clown show.

It’s wacky and extremist to reject the blanket argument that women’s primary goal in life is to marry, have kids, and be a homemaker?? Wow.

It is wacky and extremist to tell any members of a religious congregation what they should or should not believe amongst themselves.

He used the word “vocation” which has a very specific, doctrinal meaning within the Catholic Church. Nobody blinked in that audience because they know exactly what he means by that word. My guess is that you are offended because you are hearing that word in secular coding.

I read your post and just feel sorry you’re so confined by regressive ideology. I am wishing you well that you might one day become a more open minded and well rounded person.

I thank you for your well wishes. I’ll pray that someday you may learn tolerance for religious minorities.

Is Catholicism a religious minority?

Only 1/5 of the United States is Catholic. But it’s probably the largest religious group unless you count Christianity as a whole. Catholicism is a type of Christianity.

But the person you’re responding to does not understand Catholicism nor do they understand vocation. Also Jesus teaches that the greatest is not getting married. Get married weak because of lust. That is what the church teaches.

Like Eve biting the apple the previous poster up his blasphemous speech because it’s validating her life choices.

I’m sure most people are capable of understanding what you are referring to by “vocation”, even if they aren’t Christian. These aren’t some super ideas in a club. Just because I’m not Catholic doesn’t mean I can’t get the general gist.

Women get a role to play. Men get a role. Somehow the roles always seem to benefit the men in terms of authority, and in the modern age this could be interpreted as basically oppression, or internalized misogyny if you’re part of it all as a women, but hey who’s counting.

We all “understand” just fine. You’re not part of some super higher calling that is impossible to behold from the outside.

You said that you understood what the word “vocation” means in the Catholic Church. That is exactly exactly what you said…
In no way shape or form is the word vocation ever used in the Catholic Church to refer to being a wife and/or mother.

There is nothing general about the rules of Catholicism. There is no gist. It’s very specific. It’s quite illogical and that’s why you can’t apply logic to it either.

It’s hilarious that you are hearing that word and interpreting it’s as a secular word and then saying someone else is.

It’s also OK that you’re only a wife and or mother and that you could not dedicate your life to serving God, Though Jesus does think that is second fiddle to serving God, even for men.

You’re not Catholic, you don’t understand Catholicism, No you don’t understand that speech was blasphemous, I’m not sure why you’re on this thread.

As a catholic, who went to catholic school, etc, what you are describing sounds nothing like catholicism. It's not legalistic (in fact catholic schools use the Socratic method, the process of discernment is very important, and they have canonized several philosophers as saints).

Vocation is used to describe devoting your life to a purpose and a role. That role can be specific (priest, mother, fisher) or general (care of the poor, as catholic icon Mother Theresa did). Being a homemaker can absolutely be a vocation.

You might have some experience with catholic teaching but it appears to be very limited. If it functioned as you said, it would look like Islam, with lots of clerics to interpret rules. Catholics use a western philosophy approach (Google catholic discernment).

No it’s not. Vocation is not used in the Catholic Church to mean mom and wife.

No thanks with respect to googling my religion. I have the catechism and 50 years of Catholic education. You can take your pseudo Christianity and teach whatever BS you want to your “flock” but this speech was blasphemous in the context of Catholic teachings,

DP. Please get over yourself and your smug, self-appointed role here as the explainer of all things Catholic. No one cares. He wasn't using the word "vocation" as you are insisting. This is how he was using the word, and he applied it to both mothers AND fathers:

"a summons or strong inclination to a particular state or course of action"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vocation

Yes that is a secular meaning of vocation in the Catholic church it means something else.

Being a mother is not a vocation, being a nun is a vocation. Serving God is the purpose of men and women, not producing children like "rabbits" (that from the Pope).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think men are lost right now. Women have changed their roles in society and men have remained stagnant. They need to find a way to re-evaluate and grow.

Men need to hear that it's okay to work less, be a partner to their wives and it's okay if their wives make more money. They need to dedicate their lives (if they are Catholic) to God, community, family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Wow off season somebody bought a jersey, congrats. Funny they won't ever say how many are sold. Every report is it's a top seller. Nobody is buy jerseys in May.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well his jersey is the number one selling jersey, so it means people don’t care about woke BS and support family values.

The city of KC doxxed him and no charges are being filed against the people who did and they’re getting fired at the very least.

Most men and married people are supporting what he said and we no issues.

So I hope he stays kicking in the NFL for a long time, but with a team in a city who won’t try to have him harmed.

Oh and this supposed mass exodus of women who are going to not watch the NFL now…ok…no women were anyways

Really? "Most women and married people are supporting what he said"? Where is that? I'm pretty sure you don't speak for "most women and married people."

Well I am a married feminist wife and mother and I have no issues with what he said.

Is it really so wrong for a woman to choose to stay at home and raise kids?

“I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you,” Butker said.

“How many of you are sitting here now, about to cross this stage, and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.”

No feminist agrees with what he says. Feminists believe women make their own path, and that is up to each individual woman. He never articulates specific diabolical lies, he merely implicates women with careers. And who says "most excited about your marriage" as if it's already in the works? Awful rhetoric.

My husband would say being a husband and dad are the most important parts of his life, but Buttkcker isn't going around reminding men of that. Because he doesn't see strong men in the workforce as a threat. He does see strong women as such, no question.

And some women’s path is to stay home and raise children.

I have known several high powered women (law firm partners, etc) who have said literally the same thing - their children and family are the most important thing in their lives. Buetker also did say that regarding himself in his remarks. Did you even listen to the entire thing?

Did he say men's true vocation started when they became husbands and fathers? I might agree with you if he said the exact same things to men, but he didn't. He told men to embrace their masculinity (whatever that means).

He said most of modern society's ills are due to men not pulling their weight inside the home. If he said about women what he said about men in that speech, the entire feminist braintrust of America would have imploded and become a back hole, hovering over Oberlin, sucking in all in its orbit to eternal doom.

I didn't hear him say that men should be free to choose to be homemakers just like women do, that this should be a choice any parent can make. Where did you hear that?

+1 he said men should be "present" and embrace their "masculinity". That doesn't equal "pull their weight inside the home". A misogynist would equate that to "women should be in the kitchen" and "men bring home the bacon".

Let's be real here.. he has traditionalist views: men bring home the bacon; women cook it, have babies and take care of them. He lives in the 1950s. We all know that the die hard MAGA, ultra right wing religious nuts think the 1950s was when America was great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think men are lost right now. Women have changed their roles in society and men have remained stagnant. They need to find a way to re-evaluate and grow.

Men need to hear that it's okay to work less, be a partner to their wives and it's okay if their wives make more money. They need to dedicate their lives (if they are Catholic) to God, community, family.

+1 The Bible teaches men to love their wives as Christ loved the church, ie, love them so much that they are willing to sacrifice themselves. But, the right wing nut jobs like this guy just focuses on gender roles.