APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I’ve been reading about this with interest as a former Nottingham parent and while I get how parents don’t like it it really is not the end of the world. There’s plenty of time to plan for it, and all of the surrounding schools where the students would be transferred are just as good if not (at least perceived as) better than Nottingham and the parent and student communities are virtually identical. Getting rezoned into any of them will be either neutral or a net gain for property values.

For me, as a current Nottingham parent, isn’t the fact that my kids will end up going to Tuckahoe or Discovery because of this change, it’s the difficulty in retaining or attracting teachers to the school between now and the closure. That will hurt my children’s education immensely. If we are going to do this, give us the choice to do it now.

This! We are a Nottingham family and there has already been a lot of teacher turn over. Admin is fabulous but teachers seem to leave in mass numbers each year. I’d rather just move now!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

Not odd at all. Nottingham is known for its walkability. Current families don't ALL drive to the school, in fact very few do at all. You realize that will be the scenario right? All busses and car riders. That changes the dynamic of the neighborhood for several hours in the morning and evening (extended day). I am not a Nottingham parent but I do live in the neighborhood. Its also been proven that drivers use less caution when not in their own neighborhood and when in a hurry (drop offs).

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel here. The tragic pedestrian deaths have occurred with current traffic levels. It seems to be that a responsible, concerned parent would be advocating for the closure of Nottingham on that basis alone.

And you are minimizing THREE DEATHS.

Also you don't know what you are talking about. The first death occurred when there was a lot more school traffic back when Nott was severely overcrowded. Which is what the streets will probably look like again when they turn it into a 100% driving school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

Not odd at all. Nottingham is known for its walkability. Current families don't ALL drive to the school, in fact very few do at all. You realize that will be the scenario right? All busses and car riders. That changes the dynamic of the neighborhood for several hours in the morning and evening (extended day). I am not a Nottingham parent but I do live in the neighborhood. Its also been proven that drivers use less caution when not in their own neighborhood and when in a hurry (drop offs).

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel here. The tragic pedestrian deaths have occurred with current traffic levels. It seems to be that a responsible, concerned parent would be advocating for the closure of Nottingham on that basis alone.

And you are minimizing THREE DEATHS.

Also you don't know what you are talking about. The first death occurred when there was a lot more school traffic back when Nott was severely overcrowded. Which is what the streets will probably look like again when they turn it into a 100% driving school.

That horrible death occurred in the middle of the school day. Not during drop off or pick up. Had nothing to do with traffic and everything to do with a careless truck driver. It was a terrible tragedy that couldn’t be fixed with any amount of traffic safety.

[Anonymous]

If the traffic deaths and safety issues are the primary concerns of the Nottingham neighborhood, then let’s have some meetings with County traffic experts and figure this out!! It can’t be that the facility can never be used for bus and car traffic. It just may take some additional calming measures or re-routing if school bound traffic. Plenty of neighborhoods have one-way traffic on streets near schools to avoid cut through and maximize safety. I’m positive the County and the neighborhood can work together to make this safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Several Dozen Buses”? What in the world - Jamestown currently has 4 and Taylor I believe has 4/5. In what scenario would APS have 24 buses lined up outside Nottingham for drop off?

One in which 500-600 kids are being bused from their home neighborhoods 1 or more miles away, minus car traffic from extended day usage. Kidd who can walk to Jamestown can’t walk to Nottingham. That’s a stretch even for me and I put a lot of miles on my shoes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the traffic deaths and safety issues are the primary concerns of the Nottingham neighborhood, then let’s have some meetings with County traffic experts and figure this out!! It can’t be that the facility can never be used for bus and car traffic. It just may take some additional calming measures or re-routing if school bound traffic. Plenty of neighborhoods have one-way traffic on streets near schools to avoid cut through and maximize safety. I’m positive the County and the neighborhood can work together to make this safe.

It took 3 deaths to get stop signs, and believe me the county wanted to stop at the installation of the plastic sticks which actually made visibility worse. At any rate, three months - which is the time APS has artificially allocated for this decision - hardly leaves enough time to turn the Titanic that is county government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the traffic deaths and safety issues are the primary concerns of the Nottingham neighborhood, then let’s have some meetings with County traffic experts and figure this out!! It can’t be that the facility can never be used for bus and car traffic. It just may take some additional calming measures or re-routing if school bound traffic. Plenty of neighborhoods have one-way traffic on streets near schools to avoid cut through and maximize safety. I’m positive the County and the neighborhood can work together to make this safe.

We've been trying for years, but you sound very optimistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

Not odd at all. Nottingham is known for its walkability. Current families don't ALL drive to the school, in fact very few do at all. You realize that will be the scenario right? All busses and car riders. That changes the dynamic of the neighborhood for several hours in the morning and evening (extended day). I am not a Nottingham parent but I do live in the neighborhood. Its also been proven that drivers use less caution when not in their own neighborhood and when in a hurry (drop offs).

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel here. The tragic pedestrian deaths have occurred with current traffic levels. It seems to be that a responsible, concerned parent would be advocating for the closure of Nottingham on that basis alone.

And you are minimizing THREE DEATHS.

Also you don't know what you are talking about. The first death occurred when there was a lot more school traffic back when Nott was severely overcrowded. Which is what the streets will probably look like again when they turn it into a 100% driving school.

That horrible death occurred in the middle of the school day. Not during drop off or pick up. Had nothing to do with traffic and everything to do with a careless truck driver. It was a terrible tragedy that couldn’t be fixed with any amount of traffic safety.

People have died on this road at 9 am on a Saturday morning. The sight lines and flow are just that bad. If you want to make them even worse with parked buses and cars dropping off kids, and the county refuses to make more meaningful investments, expect more fatalities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the traffic deaths and safety issues are the primary concerns of the Nottingham neighborhood, then let’s have some meetings with County traffic experts and figure this out!! It can’t be that the facility can never be used for bus and car traffic. It just may take some additional calming measures or re-routing if school bound traffic. Plenty of neighborhoods have one-way traffic on streets near schools to avoid cut through and maximize safety. I’m positive the County and the neighborhood can work together to make this safe.

We've been trying for years, but you sound very optimistic.

I agree that the facility should be used for swing space if the data supports that usage, but I also agree that the County isn’t responsive enough to traffic safety concerns. So I can understand why Nott parents may be wary of this change. Public confidence in the County and APS is also likely at an all-time low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but on paper, this whole thing makes a lot of sense to me. We do have excess capacity in that part of Arlington right now, we do need a swing space because we have a lot of old buildings.

I am sorry for the Nottingham community, as someone who has been through a boundary process that chopped up our neighborhood school, it sucked. But as a taxpayer, sorry folks, this is just life. There is no perfect solution, but I think this is a good call on APS' part.

As for traffic, etc. PLEASE. You have no idea. There are lots of neighborhoods in Arlington with multiple schools. Also plenty that have lived through huge construction projects. You will be OK.

I was with you until the traffic comment. The community is very sensitive because of the three tragic, recent deaths.

I live near TJ middle school where a pedestrian was also recently killed. Since we moved here, they have built Fleet and are now adding 1000 seats to the Career Center. They also took our neighborhood elementary school (Henry) and chopped it in half. So, again, I am sympathetic, I am, but I still think this decision makes sense.

Also, with the passage of Missing Middle, Arlington is basically announcing that no one is guaranteed anything, so get used to it, folks.

Oh, I totally agree that this makes sense, but flippant comments about getting over the traffic concerns are really unnecessary given the background of what has happened in the community/Neughborhood.

OK, fair enough. I don't know the whole background. I was just trying to make the point that lots of Arlington neighborhoods have to deal with significant amounts of school related traffic. I am not flippant about pedestrian deaths, and if there have been lots around Nottingham, that is a concern. Arlington Heights had to advocate years ago for a STOP sign on a busy school route. It took a ridiculous amount of time to get it, too. But generally speaking, I don't see APS stopping any projects because of traffic concerns. You will just have to advocate for safety where you can. Every school project has traffic concerns is my point.

For one, a Nottingham mother was killed in front of the school by a truck.

https://jb-lf.org/jennifers-story/

That was awful. But unless you're proposing not having any schools on any major roads, I'm not sure what your point is.

If you were following the thread you’d see the point is that flippant posts about the how community is unnecessarily concerned about additional traffic is uncalled for. Another resident was killed just last year in a crosswalk by the school.

Or maybe people are pointing out that unless you can conclusively prove the drivers were school related, the problem in your neighborhood is actually drivers using Little Falls as a commuter route from Mclean/Falls Church/Arlington to Chain Bridge. Which is an unfortunate but separate issue being used by upset parents.

The first person to die was a parent visiting the school in her car. The parking lot there is not very big- you park on streets if you visit. Not sure how much more conclusive you want.

Is it so very hard to understand that we are concerned that adding more vehicle trips and drop offs to a road with a demonstrably poor safety record could be a problem? Not just for our kids who will be walking further distances and encountering more cut through traffic on their routes, but for the kids and parents using Little Falls as their drop off areas? I can’t think of a worse place to line up several dozen buses and cars than a road that is unsafe even when practically empty.

Taylor, Science Focus also have small parking lots and parents often parks on the street. The Nottingham accident was a garbage truck who wasn’t paying attention so not really due to “traffic” but inattentive driver which literally travels every street in Arlington

Just stop. There were THREE deaths right outside Nottingham. You think that's normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the traffic deaths and safety issues are the primary concerns of the Nottingham neighborhood, then let’s have some meetings with County traffic experts and figure this out!! It can’t be that the facility can never be used for bus and car traffic. It just may take some additional calming measures or re-routing if school bound traffic. Plenty of neighborhoods have one-way traffic on streets near schools to avoid cut through and maximize safety. I’m positive the County and the neighborhood can work together to make this safe.

It took 3 deaths to get stop signs, and believe me the county wanted to stop at the installation of the plastic sticks which actually made visibility worse. At any rate, three months - which is the time APS has artificially allocated for this decision - hardly leaves enough time to turn the Titanic that is county government.

I was heavily involved in lobbying the county for traffic improvements after the first death. They Would. Not. Budge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the traffic deaths and safety issues are the primary concerns of the Nottingham neighborhood, then let’s have some meetings with County traffic experts and figure this out!! It can’t be that the facility can never be used for bus and car traffic. It just may take some additional calming measures or re-routing if school bound traffic. Plenty of neighborhoods have one-way traffic on streets near schools to avoid cut through and maximize safety. I’m positive the County and the neighborhood can work together to make this safe.

We've been trying for years, but you sound very optimistic.

yeah, lol, let's just have some meetings and figure this out!

do you really think that has not been tried? what makes you so positive they will listen when they have not for YEARS. Good lord, the naivete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

Not odd at all. Nottingham is known for its walkability. Current families don't ALL drive to the school, in fact very few do at all. You realize that will be the scenario right? All busses and car riders. That changes the dynamic of the neighborhood for several hours in the morning and evening (extended day). I am not a Nottingham parent but I do live in the neighborhood. Its also been proven that drivers use less caution when not in their own neighborhood and when in a hurry (drop offs).

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel here. The tragic pedestrian deaths have occurred with current traffic levels. It seems to be that a responsible, concerned parent would be advocating for the closure of Nottingham on that basis alone.

And you are minimizing THREE DEATHS.

Also you don't know what you are talking about. The first death occurred when there was a lot more school traffic back when Nott was severely overcrowded. Which is what the streets will probably look like again when they turn it into a 100% driving school.

That horrible death occurred in the middle of the school day. Not during drop off or pick up. Had nothing to do with traffic and everything to do with a careless truck driver. It was a terrible tragedy that couldn’t be fixed with any amount of traffic safety.

Of course it could have been fixed with better traffic infrastructure.

I'm familiar. It occurred in the late morning. She came into school to volunteer and had just left. The school was at 140% capacity, and this was a day when there was a school activity that brought many parents to school in the middle of the day. So the very little parking in the lot was full. People have to park on the surrounding streets when they come to Nott, but they are not safe for this.

There is literally no buffer between the parking lane and the traffic lane on little falls where parents park. so she was hit as she stood right next to her car strapping her toddler into the car seat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

Not odd at all. Nottingham is known for its walkability. Current families don't ALL drive to the school, in fact very few do at all. You realize that will be the scenario right? All busses and car riders. That changes the dynamic of the neighborhood for several hours in the morning and evening (extended day). I am not a Nottingham parent but I do live in the neighborhood. Its also been proven that drivers use less caution when not in their own neighborhood and when in a hurry (drop offs).

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel here. The tragic pedestrian deaths have occurred with current traffic levels. It seems to be that a responsible, concerned parent would be advocating for the closure of Nottingham on that basis alone.

And you are minimizing THREE DEATHS.

Also you don't know what you are talking about. The first death occurred when there was a lot more school traffic back when Nott was severely overcrowded. Which is what the streets will probably look like again when they turn it into a 100% driving school.

That horrible death occurred in the middle of the school day. Not during drop off or pick up. Had nothing to do with traffic and everything to do with a careless truck driver. It was a terrible tragedy that couldn’t be fixed with any amount of traffic safety.

People have died on this road at 9 am on a Saturday morning. The sight lines and flow are just that bad. If you want to make them even worse with parked buses and cars dropping off kids, and the county refuses to make more meaningful investments, expect more fatalities.

+1

My kids are out of Nott, so this doesn't affect us directly. I just don't want any more neighbors to die.

[Anonymous]

We live right nearby. Of course it can be addressed. It just needs the commitment of the county and the neighborhood. It’s not an intractable problem that forever precludes the site being used by buses or cars. On a rainy day, believe me, there are tons of cars dropping kids off at Nottingham.