APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but on paper, this whole thing makes a lot of sense to me. We do have excess capacity in that part of Arlington right now, we do need a swing space because we have a lot of old buildings.

I am sorry for the Nottingham community, as someone who has been through a boundary process that chopped up our neighborhood school, it sucked. But as a taxpayer, sorry folks, this is just life. There is no perfect solution, but I think this is a good call on APS' part.

As for traffic, etc. PLEASE. You have no idea. There are lots of neighborhoods in Arlington with multiple schools. Also plenty that have lived through huge construction projects. You will be OK.

+1

APS should cut the public feedback to a minimum because that noise just hurts our community.

We don’t need to hear from all of the various a-holes around the county. Just make the best decision for all of our APS kids.

[Anonymous]

Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

[Anonymous]

So I’ve been reading about this with interest as a former Nottingham parent and while I get how parents don’t like it it really is not the end of the world. There’s plenty of time to plan for it, and all of the surrounding schools where the students would be transferred are just as good if not (at least perceived as) better than Nottingham and the parent and student communities are virtually identical. Getting rezoned into any of them will be either neutral or a net gain for property values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

The answer is to plan for the change, which again is three years away - not to refuse to make any change at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but on paper, this whole thing makes a lot of sense to me. We do have excess capacity in that part of Arlington right now, we do need a swing space because we have a lot of old buildings.

I am sorry for the Nottingham community, as someone who has been through a boundary process that chopped up our neighborhood school, it sucked. But as a taxpayer, sorry folks, this is just life. There is no perfect solution, but I think this is a good call on APS' part.

As for traffic, etc. PLEASE. You have no idea. There are lots of neighborhoods in Arlington with multiple schools. Also plenty that have lived through huge construction projects. You will be OK.

I was with you until the traffic comment. The community is very sensitive because of the three tragic, recent deaths.

I live near TJ middle school where a pedestrian was also recently killed. Since we moved here, they have built Fleet and are now adding 1000 seats to the Career Center. They also took our neighborhood elementary school (Henry) and chopped it in half. So, again, I am sympathetic, I am, but I still think this decision makes sense.

Also, with the passage of Missing Middle, Arlington is basically announcing that no one is guaranteed anything, so get used to it, folks.

Oh, I totally agree that this makes sense, but flippant comments about getting over the traffic concerns are really unnecessary given the background of what has happened in the community/Neughborhood.

OK, fair enough. I don't know the whole background. I was just trying to make the point that lots of Arlington neighborhoods have to deal with significant amounts of school related traffic. I am not flippant about pedestrian deaths, and if there have been lots around Nottingham, that is a concern. Arlington Heights had to advocate years ago for a STOP sign on a busy school route. It took a ridiculous amount of time to get it, too. But generally speaking, I don't see APS stopping any projects because of traffic concerns. You will just have to advocate for safety where you can. Every school project has traffic concerns is my point.

For one, a Nottingham mother was killed in front of the school by a truck.

https://jb-lf.org/jennifers-story/

That was awful. But unless you're proposing not having any schools on any major roads, I'm not sure what your point is.

If you were following the thread you’d see the point is that flippant posts about the how community is unnecessarily concerned about additional traffic is uncalled for. Another resident was killed just last year in a crosswalk by the school.

Or maybe people are pointing out that unless you can conclusively prove the drivers were school related, the problem in your neighborhood is actually drivers using Little Falls as a commuter route from Mclean/Falls Church/Arlington to Chain Bridge. Which is an unfortunate but separate issue being used by upset parents.

The first person to die was a parent visiting the school in her car. The parking lot there is not very big- you park on streets if you visit. Not sure how much more conclusive you want.

Is it so very hard to understand that we are concerned that adding more vehicle trips and drop offs to a road with a demonstrably poor safety record could be a problem? Not just for our kids who will be walking further distances and encountering more cut through traffic on their routes, but for the kids and parents using Little Falls as their drop off areas? I can’t think of a worse place to line up several dozen buses and cars than a road that is unsafe even when practically empty.

Taylor, Science Focus also have small parking lots and parents often parks on the street. The Nottingham accident was a garbage truck who wasn’t paying attention so not really due to “traffic” but inattentive driver which literally travels every street in Arlington

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

Not odd at all. Nottingham is known for its walkability. Current families don't ALL drive to the school, in fact very few do at all. You realize that will be the scenario right? All busses and car riders. That changes the dynamic of the neighborhood for several hours in the morning and evening (extended day). I am not a Nottingham parent but I do live in the neighborhood. Its also been proven that drivers use less caution when not in their own neighborhood and when in a hurry (drop offs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

Explain away the 2 other deaths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but on paper, this whole thing makes a lot of sense to me. We do have excess capacity in that part of Arlington right now, we do need a swing space because we have a lot of old buildings.

I am sorry for the Nottingham community, as someone who has been through a boundary process that chopped up our neighborhood school, it sucked. But as a taxpayer, sorry folks, this is just life. There is no perfect solution, but I think this is a good call on APS' part.

As for traffic, etc. PLEASE. You have no idea. There are lots of neighborhoods in Arlington with multiple schools. Also plenty that have lived through huge construction projects. You will be OK.

Groan. Here come the Route 50 frontage road discount buyers telling us what we should and shouldn’t put up with. Some people made different choices than you to live in a quiet neighborhood.

Guaranteed the choices that made your neighborhood what it is were not done in 3 months when over half the people being affected had no idea it was even happening.

WOW. What do you Nottingham families REALLY think about the rest of us?!

This Nottingham family thinks there are a lot of people out there that have an inferiority complex despite being objectively wealthy and incredibly privileged. Grow up. You are not debating the people in the $3m homes. You are not likely writing from a CAF, either.

DP but COME ON. "Some people made different choices than you to live in a quiet neighborhood" is the statement you're apparently defending here by saying the person who objected to it has "an inferiority complex despite being objectively wealthy and incredibly privileged" I guess? You're doing great, here, coming off really well.

I have an issue when people who bought on a busy road or in a known high traffic area to get more house for their $1.x million dollars claim it is only “fair” to force that same burden on everyone else, regardless of the rationale offered, and that people who refuse to accept that burden lying down are privileged wealthy snobs living in a bubble.

I’ve driven down Carlin Springs road many times, and I’ve driven down and walked down Little Falls. There are jerks who think surface streets are the autobahn everywhere. But Little Falls seems to be special in just how badly drivers lose line of sight on that road. Maybe it’s the hills and the varying width of the road? I’m no traffic engineer and don’t pretend to be one. The brand new stop signs earned in blood are appreciated but I don’t know it’s going to be enough to make Nottingham ready to be drop off central.

OK. I’m about to rock your world. There are OTHER elementary schools in Arlington also on quiet neighborhood streets that deal with cut through traffic. Some are in fancy zip codes like yours (Tuckahoe) and some are (gasp) in places where home values are less than yours (Barcroft, Long Branch, etc). Not every other elementary is on a major street and everyone has concerns. You are not the first school to deal with this. The point is that everyone deal with traffic and safety and everyone is worried about it. You are a terrible snob, but your argument is also bogus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

Not odd at all. Nottingham is known for its walkability. Current families don't ALL drive to the school, in fact very few do at all. You realize that will be the scenario right? All busses and car riders. That changes the dynamic of the neighborhood for several hours in the morning and evening (extended day). I am not a Nottingham parent but I do live in the neighborhood. Its also been proven that drivers use less caution when not in their own neighborhood and when in a hurry (drop offs).

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel here. The tragic pedestrian deaths have occurred with current traffic levels. It seems to be that a responsible, concerned parent would be advocating for the closure of Nottingham on that basis alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I’ve been reading about this with interest as a former Nottingham parent and while I get how parents don’t like it it really is not the end of the world. There’s plenty of time to plan for it, and all of the surrounding schools where the students would be transferred are just as good if not (at least perceived as) better than Nottingham and the parent and student communities are virtually identical. Getting rezoned into any of them will be either neutral or a net gain for property values.

For me, as a current Nottingham parent, isn’t the fact that my kids will end up going to Tuckahoe or Discovery because of this change, it’s the difficulty in retaining or attracting teachers to the school between now and the closure. That will hurt my children’s education immensely. If we are going to do this, give us the choice to do it now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

Not odd at all. Nottingham is known for its walkability. Current families don't ALL drive to the school, in fact very few do at all. You realize that will be the scenario right? All busses and car riders. That changes the dynamic of the neighborhood for several hours in the morning and evening (extended day). I am not a Nottingham parent but I do live in the neighborhood. Its also been proven that drivers use less caution when not in their own neighborhood and when in a hurry (drop offs).

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel here. The tragic pedestrian deaths have occurred with current traffic levels. It seems to be that a responsible, concerned parent would be advocating for the closure of Nottingham on that basis alone.

Dramatic much? No, we advocated for traffic reduction and stop signs. It's not reasonable to close a school. It is reasonable to enforce traffic safety protocols.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:First they overcrowded Glebe
And I did not speak out
Because I didn't have kids there and so eff that.
Then they repurposed McKinley
And I did not speak out
and in fact was a little grateful over it because better them than us.
Then they came for Nottingham
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
and in fact for some reason people don't seem to like me that much and they're starting to get on my nerves

It's funny because if Nottingham hadn't been so vocal about turning away kids from other schools before because they were oh so crowded, they might not be underenrolled now. But noooooo, like always the Nottingham moms and dads were all: FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!

Everyone else is really done with Nottingham's Thunderdome antics. Reading some of the terrible "I'm a lawyer but have no experience with this kind of law" takes posted here is hysterical -- you guys are too much. Look at this this way, Nottingham: This is actually an opportunity for you, since your school isn't being scrapped, it's being given an extension. If enrollment numbers in your area go back up after covid, like you have been saying they will when folks return from private, then Nottingham will turn back into a local elementary in several years after the renovations. If not, and if you've been wrong about the numbers, then let's see what this experiment shows re whether the school is really needed as a local elementary.

Nottingham was overcrowded. Significantly so, and for some time. So overcrowded that we spent hundreds of millions of dollars on new elementary schools nearby. Now, less than a decade later, we are shutting down Nottingham because oops, we didn’t need that space after all.

Tell me- did the school board screw up then, or is it screwing up now? Because no rational district spends hundreds of millions of dollars to create new schools that aren’t needed. Have things changed so permanently and remarkably after COVID that we need to completely change course? If so, why aren’t we looking at that?

I don’t trust their projection data. Their confidence in it, despite being repeatedly wrong and it having the same sort of limitations that caused them to be caught flat footed in the 2010s, is very concerning.

I can see few people share this concern when it comes to sticking it to the Nottingham community. I don’t like being surrounded by idiots, and for that reason I’m looking toward the exits. Enjoy the bond service on those hundred million dollar schools.

I think it’s a little unfair to blame the school board for building a new school when it was clearly needed. (Although I do blame them for building clearly over the top fancy ones). No one could have predicted the pandemic/the resulting learning loss and exodus to private. The fact now is that APS doesn’t need an elementary school there now. If in 10 years an elementary school is needed, then great, the building is there and APS can reopen it.

Although, my prediction is that the demographics in that neighborhood have permanently changed. No 2 government employees can buy a house there like they could 20-30 years ago. And when people buy 2.5 to 3 million houses, they tend to go private.

It’s insane that APS is just completely ignoring the private school exodus in the context of these seating questions. Why? Why does no one look at it? Why aren’t we spending some of this time money and energy on really understanding the numbers instead of relying on the incompetent APS staff who have a demonstrable record of absolutely blowing there calls?

What do you want them to do with those numbers? Seems like you want them to assume they will all come back. Even if they do, they aren't coming back at the same grade levels as when they left....they're moving up and out of elementary. So APS still wouldn't have a practical way to accurately account for any exodus or for any subsequent maybe/maybe not returns. If you think it's so easy and essential, you could volunteer your precious time and talents and gather that information and make the predictions for them.

Some of the people complaining left for private school, but they also want their public option there and waiting for them if they decide to come back.

They gave up on public, but they want their cake and to eat it too.

I don’t think that paying taxes for the public school and also paying private school tuition is “having your cake and eating it too.” If anything we should thank those families that are opening up seats while also paying taxes.

+1. Those wealthy families are entitled to a free and appropriate public education whenever they want it, even if it means diverting resources from the less well off. School aren’t a welfare program, contrary to popular belief.

COVID was such a strange thing and APS’s response so botched, there’s no way to say with certainty what’s happening when things return to “normal.” The kids are here, that’s all I know. Empty nesters are cashing out, and single childless folks aren’t spending $1.2m+ to move to NW for the walkability, nightlife, and good commutes.

Could you explain to me how sending a child to private school or homeschooling a child diverts resources? Is it some type of per-student subsidy that gets reduced or do you mean something intangible like “students as resources.” How would you think this plays out in a situation where there is also overcrowding? I don’t want to derail the thread but this is something I have been curious about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

The answer is to plan for the change, which again is three years away - not to refuse to make any change at all.

sure, it's easy for you to say that, but how do you plan for the change when both APS and the County have dismissed/ignored the traffic issues for years? They did nothing after the first death. Nothing after the second death. Finally a few improvements after the third death, but not sure that will solve it, and now they want to load up the streets with MORE traffic?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I’ve been reading about this with interest as a former Nottingham parent and while I get how parents don’t like it it really is not the end of the world. There’s plenty of time to plan for it, and all of the surrounding schools where the students would be transferred are just as good if not (at least perceived as) better than Nottingham and the parent and student communities are virtually identical. Getting rezoned into any of them will be either neutral or a net gain for property values.

For me, as a current Nottingham parent, isn’t the fact that my kids will end up going to Tuckahoe or Discovery because of this change, it’s the difficulty in retaining or attracting teachers to the school between now and the closure. That will hurt my children’s education immensely. If we are going to do this, give us the choice to do it now.

For me, it's not the redistricting, it's the added traffic issues this will bring to the neighborhood.