As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Being a Muslim in the US is much worse than being an atheist.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.
I'll make this easier on you. The well-documented history of how humans invented Santa provides the falsification you keep bleating about.
No, it doesn't. "no empirical test can establish that it is false". What empirical test can prove there is no Santa?
I agree it is ridiculous to believe he is real, by the way, because there is no evidence he is. But the claim was he is provably false. That has not been shown, here or anywhere, by any empirical test.
You can't see it because you've gone down a narrow semantic road that apparently rules out seeing anything in the way of documented historical proof.
This "narrow semantic road ", as you call it, is exactly how you come to believe everything else you believe except for your god.
Your argument is ridiculous. Have a nice day.
Well, when you put it that way, with all those counterpoints, facts and citations, it is hard to argue.
You've been provided counterpoints, facts, and citations and dismissed them.
Did anyone actually prove that Santa/Zeus didn't exist?
Santa, yes -- he does not exist. He is a child's supernatural being who only brings presents to Christian children at Christmas. Kids realize at about the age of 10 that there is no Santa, then later, they play Santa for their own kids.
Zeus - no proof that he did or didn't exist, but no one believes in him anymore. He's an Ancient Greek god.
No. No one proved Santa does not exist. You can't.
Not empirical proof, perhaps, but solid reasoning. Adults know that there is no Santa because they become Santa to their own children. As has been pointed out, Ghosts are a better argument for the nonexistence of supernatural beings, because some adults believe in ghosts, despite the lack of evidence.
And some of us don't see any difference between Santa, Ghosts, and Gods. Which is the point. There is an equal lack of evidence for all of them.
Exactly. Either you believe supernatural forces are real. Or not.
Santa is not "supernatural" - he's fictional. An adult believing in Santa wouldn't make presents appear under their tree in the night, unless they have a very dedicated parent, spouse, or friend willing to continue playing the role. Satellite imaging of the globe would also have picked up a massive workshop, reindeer stables, and elf village in the North Pole if one existed. Just because you can't see the difference between Santa and God (or ghosts; I'll give you ghosts as a better argument), doesn't mean there isn't a difference. The supernatural is something unexplained by science or outside of the laws of nature. Santa's powers would be supernatural if they were real, but they are explained by the fact that many adults play the role of Santa, so there are not actually any laws of nature being broken, except maybe some human nature when an adult who is notoriously bad at keeping secrets is able to maintain their secret Santa identity from their kids for years on end.
You make good arguments about Santa, but what about God? Sometimes he answers prayers and sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes people are fervently praying for opposite outcomes. When one side wins does that mean their prayers were answered?
There's no satellite imaging of God and we now know, thanks to space exploration, that there's no atmosphere in heaven, so people who rise bodily, like Jesus, couldn't breathe up there.
I'm not Christian and don't believe in God as someone who answers prayers or doesn't answer prayers. God is not like a magical genie granting wishes, at least not in my conception of God. As for Jesus, since I'm not Christian, I'm with you on the whole rising from the dead thing not making any sense.
Interesting -- what does make sense to you in your conception of God?
I'm Jewish and I don't really feel the need to define an exact nature of God. There are lots of examples throughout the texts of the different ways that God acts or doesn't act in our lives. Sometimes God is very active (Creation, the Exodus, Jonah) and sometimes God is conspicuously absent (Esther). Sometimes God answers prayers (Hannah) and sometimes not (the first 400 years in Egypt). Sometimes there seems to be a divine plan behind personal suffering (Joseph) and sometimes there is no rhyme or reason (Job). It's enough for me to believe that God exists in all these different ways of being.
Interesting. Reading through this makes me understand why there seem to be so many non-believing Jews. To me, the erratic nature of God strongly suggests his complete absence.
Aaaannnnd pp thought she could come on here and join in the Christianity-bashing (magical genie, resurrection doesn’t make sense) and be treated better.
I apologize if my comments appeared to bash Christianity. And my use of "magic genie" was glib. I mean that I disagree with the view of God as someone we can pray to in a wish-granting kind of way. For that matter, many Christians also disagree with that view of God, which I didn't specify in my initial comment.
The resurrection doesn't make sense to me. It's something that Christians take on faith, the same way I take parts of my religion on faith that Christians may not find much sense in.
As for being "treated better," I answered a question about my understanding of God and was met with genuine interest and engagement on the topic. I don't see anything offensive in the exchange.
I am the poster who originally engaged you in conversation and I appreciate your response. Interesting that you see God as reflecting humans, rather than as an entity above us pulling strings (more the Christian perception). I was not offended by any of your comments and feel there was no need to apologize.
Thank you! If we're made in God's image, then it only makes sense (to me) to view the God-human relationship as one that reflects each other. It's more accurate to say that humans reflect God, rather than God reflecting humans, but either way, we can see some of our emotions and behavior in God.
You're welcome. Being made in God's image is a Christian concept too, that I recall hearing during my church-going days. I'm now an atheist. But I thought of it more as humans and God looking like each other, not being like each other. God, and his son, Jesus, always seemed perfect and humans clearly were not.
That could have been more my own deduction than anything I learned in Sunday school, which was focused on rules - what to do to get into heaven and how to avoid going to hell.
Yes, the idea of being made in God's image comes from Genesis 1:26, so it's a shared belief between Christianity and Judaism. Judaism doesn't have the same imagery for God that Christianity does. We do anthropomorphize God in descriptions, like God having an outstretched arm or God's nostrils flaring to create a mighty wind. But they are understood in Judaism as symbolism, not that God really has a body. The bearded man in the clouds (I don't mean that pejoratively, just as a description of the popular depictions of God in Christian art) is not a Jewish thing. In fact, drawing pictures of God counts as making a graven image or idolatry in Judaism.
It makes sense that the physical comparison would be more of a thing in Christianity, since Jesus is God in human form in Christian theology.
Please stop speculating about Christianity because you're always wrong. No, Christians don't think of God as a big guy with a beard in the sky, except for famous Michelangelo paintings.
No, theologically-speaking in Christianity God does not have a body, as God is omnipresent and without form. But Michaelangelo's paintings are Christian depictions of God. As are the many other artistic expressions of God mainly depicted as a bearded man, often in the sky. There are many examples documented here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father_in_Western_art and here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trinity_in_art. When Christians try to imagine God (or really most non-Christians in Christian-majority cultures, like the US), Michaelangelo's depiction or one of these other bearded men in the sky are the ones that come to mind. It's not an attack on Christianity to point that out in the context of a discussion about the different ways that one might interpret "being made in God's image."
That's incorrect, most Christians don't think of God as an old guy sitting up there on a cloud. We can separate the lovely paintings from a more nuanced conception of God.
This may be true of some people, but not all -- and not me.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Being a Muslim in the US is much worse than being an atheist.
Interesting that you should say that. That's your opinion, obviously, but I don't think you could really know. In my experience, it's better to say you believe in something, rather than nothing. Better to believe in some iteration of god than none at all. It's as if people in the US have learned somehow to respect people's differing faiths but not to respect people who don't have a religious faith. I do think it's changing, especially among young people.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.
I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.
Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.
Most of this post is nonsense, sorry. Muslims are attacked for just being who they are and you guys are shunned for being aggressive proselytizers. Can't you see the difference?
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.
I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.
Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.
The wishful thinking among you atheists constantly astonishes me.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.
I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.
Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.
The wishful thinking among you atheists constantly astonishes me.
I wish religious people would keep their religion out of my government, out of my life, and out of my body.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.
I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.
Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.
The wishful thinking among you atheists constantly astonishes me.
I wish religious people would keep their religion out of my government, out of my life, and out of my body.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.
I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.
Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.
The wishful thinking among you atheists constantly astonishes me.
I wish religious people would keep their religion out of my government, out of my life, and out of my body.
How’s that for wishful thinking?
people elected to public office are allowed to be religious. In fact- the vast majority of elected officials claim to be Christian and speak about their faith.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.
I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.
Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.
The wishful thinking among you atheists constantly astonishes me.
I wish religious people would keep their religion out of my government, out of my life, and out of my body.
How’s that for wishful thinking?
Wishful, maybe, but wonderful, and coming someday, hopefully in our lifetimes. Especially, I think, if non-religious people are more willing to reveal themselves.
There are so many of us - and some, based on what's written here, who don't acknowledge their lack of belief, instead just saying they're not church goers, or something that's accurate, but not too revealing. It's a start.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.
I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.
Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.
The wishful thinking among you atheists constantly astonishes me.
I wish religious people would keep their religion out of my government, out of my life, and out of my body.
How’s that for wishful thinking?
people elected to public office are allowed to be religious. In fact- the vast majority of elected officials claim to be Christian and speak about their faith.
How is your life affected by religion?
It goes way beyond politicians practicing their own religion. Politicians (and SCOTUS justices) are FORCING their religious beliefs on others.
As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.
More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.
Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.
I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.
Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.
The wishful thinking among you atheists constantly astonishes me.
Yeah, right, Atheists are the ones with wishful thinking.
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}