I’m a black descendant of Robert E. Lee

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you realize that people are not trying to “erase” history. We can learn history without statues. Everybody knows Hitler’s story, not 1 statue.

Do you know when/who/why any of these statues were even erected? Do you actually know their true history?

The irony with your post is that in the same statement uou contradict and illustrate both points for me. But your aspect only shows your side of the story.

I’m black, raised in Fairfax county one of the greatest counties in the US, which is one of the greatest counties in the world. Minutes away from the largest AA population of wealth in the country, and our government. History was 100% erased, and I have experiences to prove it. McGraw-Hill left out details that addressed blacks and it minimized the story around the Civil War. They should have encouraged discussion so wisdom could evolve, not lied out of convenience.

You realize that any history of black power is associated with anger, and also a threat. Not independence and freedom despite oppression. People get really touchy and defensive over things that have nothing to do with them. They aren’t Father Time. This is why I rarely share this info. And there are MANY more like me.

Do you realize my history books were different from my relatives in Richmond, that lived off of MLK? Do you know the discussions uou have about FARMS and the veiled implications? That is hit your too. Teach all of it. No, it isn’t being taught at all.

I’ll never forget a community college course I took that had a history book that wasn’t any thicker than Gary Chapman’s 5 Loce Languages. It was the catalyst for my desire to strengthen and raise consciousness and thinking to evolve and not be supressed with a million immeasurable micro aggressions.

How easy do you think it is for a person to articulate what I’m sharing here? In the face of hostility, with a lag to the start, without exposure, and the exposure in civics is basic at best. You have to go to an HBCU to get the truth; even then, there are deep and meaningful contradictions, but at least there they can be addressed safely without styling whether or not it’s true, and trying to encapsulate the entire dilemma in the symptom of a Lee statue.

When you challenge my tangled past with an over simplification from ONE experience (just like mine is ONE experience) — you insult me. You signal that I’m seeking something that I don’t have a right to do. I’m stepping out of place. I’m challenging a norm, and no I shouldn’t ever do that. It isn’t illimités to race, or ancestry, or religion, or gender, or sexual preference. These concepts look the same at the root, even if the petals change color at times.

The irony is your rant illustrates my point.

You have not made a point that creating statues to murderers and rapist would “preserve history” we just need to put it in the history books and teach it.

Again, I did not say that we need to create statues of murderers or rapists. So dont come here polluting this thread. You can stop right there, this isn't an argument about whether it is right or wrong. It is ANOTHER opinion, of ANOTHER person in the SAME circumstance of WHO KNOWS how many others.

The complexity is that the unkonwing is difficult; but you also don't want to volunteer for open heart surgery with the new resident that has 0 hours of trainig outside of what they read in a text. Do you understand how you once again diluted the complexity of *****MY OPINION******* to devolve in a point I don't even make? THIS is the exhausting part that I have absolutely no interest in engaging in.

Like I said. I dont even know why I started this thread. Something was triggered as a final straw watching people rant about patriots. Because every point is being argued with the same deck of cards. And Im saying the loudest people in the room arent even advocating with the full picture and pertinent information, because -- they arent seeking it.
So why would i? to introduce a black uno card and people like you try to shun me away?

That is the faulty thinking. I havent ranted yet. IF I do, you will know.

[Anonymous]

TO BE CLEAR:

1. I do not support the confederacy, or racists, or Trump's attempts to overthrow our goverhment. I am not a Confederate sympathizer, I do not think that there is any place that this was argued. PERIOD. Stop acting like me tring to put my family tree in any other history, or even talk about it is some defense. I actually addressed why I think this happens and it is an exhaustive defensive reaction.

2. Black lives matter, and we have a number of complexities, but we are not the only group of lives that has been threatened and attacked in history, nor in this country. Tribal nations have a history that starts before our history books, I have seen them on the resrevation of at least one tribe and it is amazing to see a full picture of AL L the history. My point was argued that we dont need statues. It completely went over that posters head what I was getting at. I have tried to clarify multiple times.

3. The crux of the issue (FOR ME) is not around statues at all. It is more to the identity crisis. I do not know how I feel about this, other than angry that there is no place to discuss without it creating very intense feelings and conflicts that I cannot resolve and feeling backed into a corner like i have to defend something i have no control over, as a black woman, STILL IMPACTED IN MEASURABLE WAYS THAT I CARE NOT TO SHARE because of my skin! With a grandfather that fought to keep things that way!

And honestly? Every account of relatives that I have heard is pretty similar. We are on an island alone, didnt know, kinda cool, dont care, but now we dont want to all unite. If you found out your father had 30 other kids around the world would you want to meet all of theme?

The WaPo guy is not the first person to share their history, and won't be the last, there are many untold stories. I planned to post a bunch of links that I have seen over the years after dinner because they ARENT TAUGHT and it ISNT SUFFICIENTLY addressed.

My point is - INCREASE AWARENESS. PUT THE STATUES IN A MUSEUM ON CONSTITUTION AVENUE. Provide context around what it meant and the social conflicts related.

THAT helps it make sense if by no other means, it increases awareness about yet another random thing about being black that you can't do. Just now, I htought of that thread which I dont think Ive ever posted in.

I am admittedly defensive, so don't want to get off track, but stop asking or insinuating I have some support of racism or the confederacy, in my attempt to explore my complexity around this and the correlation with my identity.

[Anonymous]

^^ That was my rant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am kind of struggling to understand. History books still talk about the civil war and slavery, but why glorify it and still have streets and buildings and status named after them? If I found out I was related to someone who so strongly supported and owned slaves I would not want to still see monuments in their names. History books still have Lee as a traitor to this country, and continue to have him displayed so publicly only encourages others to continue to fly the confederate flag and all it stands for

Wrong.

You breezed right over that and went to argue a point I am not making. That is the frustration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just curious how you know for sure, without a DNA test, that Lee is your ancestor. Are there written records beyond those placing your ancestor at his plantation or strong family lore? Not that I don’t believe that Lee was a rapist. To the contrary, a lot of white guys were raping slaves. Just wondering if you all are reasonably sure it wasn’t an overseer or visitor or son or anyone else that fathered your ancestor.

I was curious about this as well but OP said they do not want to do DNA test. Perhaps other family members did one. There are articles discussing Lee descendants but I believe they were descendants of his son or brothers, not Lee himself.

OP again, I am sure that someone somewhere has done a DNA test and it is a matter of time and circumstance. No one is off the grid anymore. Especially not now with a health pandemic and the ease of connecting the internet of things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would this be an AMA the majority of black Americans have the same or similar history.
.

Removing statues and renaming highways is not rewriting history. Those statues and highways were erected decades later to be a reminder of subjugation of black people and reinforce white supremacy.

Lee was a traitor to his country there's no need to build memorials to traitors.


Tell the truth in history books and history class and take down memorials to traitors.

I FULLY agree with this. It is not "erasing" history to take down statues or renaming schools to avoid glorifying treasonous rapists. The history books can put these individuals and actions into context. Do you really think anyone in Germany wants to go to "Hitler High School" or drive down "Hilter Blvd" because they want to preserve and not erase history?! I simply do not understand your reasoning. We are not talking "erasing" this history - just not "celebrating" it via memorials and street/school names.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you realize that people are not trying to “erase” history. We can learn history without statues. Everybody knows Hitler’s story, not 1 statue.

Do you know when/who/why any of these statues were even erected? Do you actually know their true history?

PLEASE for the love of all things good and right! Stop associating statues with history. It is a stupid talking point and irrelevant! I do not agree that we should have statues up and public institutions acknowledging TRAITORS that give access and cause to the infuriating swarm of racists and those who are exploiting their hate.

TAKE DOWN THE STATUES. PUT THEM IN MUSEUMS.

Now. That is clear, I hope. We shouldnt have to address that again.


The bolded -- THAT is where we disagree. I already explained this, it is glossed over in history books that I was taught in, and i just find the irony rich. HBCUs attempt to tell an entire story, but even that doesnt bring in the history that preceded americans. Which, by the way is also in my ancestry, obviously. That side I CAN trace because it was a smaller down and different name , different sidel.

The point I am making is that -- everything isnt lilly white cookie cutter and with Mom Dad Sis Bro and a Dog, that goes back for centuries. No. We have our history erased already, and that erasure has been normalized. We also have censure on our opinions because they are MISALIGNED with aggression or anger. I am not angry. This is history! I am angry when someone arresnts Henry Louis Gates, a distinguished Harvard Professor well known for his work in African American Studies, and people want to say it isnt racist. There are so many things that erase our history, and when we seek to open the door there is ALWAYS some type of pain.

Now -- knowing that -- why would we want to open that up? How can you simplify all of those intense conflicts and differing cultures into one line? Black lives matter, yes. The statues should come down, yes.

Now can we talk about what it is like to have a grandfather that is a confederate HERO? I'm arguing for the right to talk about it with people who ARENT my race on an anonymous board! It is kind of amusing, but it is more sad than anything. It is wrong.

Harriet Tubman should have been on the $20 bill. Refusing to do that? That ERASED history. The people that advocated for it? Racists who worship my grandfather, who also by the way may have dna traits that are oddly associated, but we cant talk about that because....it makes..YOU ... uncomfortable.

I expected better from this audience, that is why I took a chance. Its no big deal. It was nice to hear from one sole black person who can relate. I am used to being the only black voice in all which classrooms in Virginia.

As one person likes to say, the Irony is RICH! Haha. THat is like a quadruple entendre for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would this be an AMA the majority of black Americans have the same or similar history.
.

Removing statues and renaming highways is not rewriting history. Those statues and highways were erected decades later to be a reminder of subjugation of black people and reinforce white supremacy.

Lee was a traitor to his country there's no need to build memorials to traitors.


Tell the truth in history books and history class and take down memorials to traitors.

I FULLY agree with this. It is not "erasing" history to take down statues or renaming schools to avoid glorifying treasonous rapists. The history books can put these individuals and actions into context. Do you really think anyone in Germany wants to go to "Hitler High School" or drive down "Hilter Blvd" because they want to preserve and not erase history?! I simply do not understand your reasoning. We are not talking "erasing" this history - just not "celebrating" it via memorials and street/school names.

At this point, I am going to report troll posts that argue a point that is derailing the discussion and has been addressed sefveral times. If you want to share your opinon, operate from facts. Im not defending myself from your lie about ME while you still ignore the larger point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am kind of struggling to understand. History books still talk about the civil war and slavery, but why glorify it and still have streets and buildings and status named after them? If I found out I was related to someone who so strongly supported and owned slaves I would not want to still see monuments in their names. History books still have Lee as a traitor to this country, and continue to have him displayed so publicly only encourages others to continue to fly the confederate flag and all it stands for

1. Me too. Kinda the point that hasnt really been acknowledged except by one poster through 4 pages. Who is helping who here? This is why evolved discussion are limited to those that demonstrate the capacity to engage with it. You guys are so used to being guarded against the same argument and youre not really hearing what I am saying.

2. The difference is that I am related to someone that not only supported and owned slaves, he led the call for it, and created major dysfunction this year for so many of his descendants. I am literally that person. I dont have to guess. It is real. And my reaction is one of many. You are entitlted to not care, and someone else is entitled to do a DNA test.

The other points you made are irrelevant because they are based off of something I have repeatedly explained I do not agree with. I dont want Lee Highway memorizlied, but the history behind it includes a more recent black history in MY family branch, that doesnt even get a voice.

THAT IS ERASING HISTORY. You don't even want to hear the story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most African Americans know they have some white ancestry, but they either don’t have the names of those ancestors or they do, but the name is just a name with no big claim to fame attached. Do you think you feel differently about being descended from the most famous Confederate General than you would about being descended from any wealthy plantation owner whose sons fought for the Confederacy?

I really appreciate this question! Thank you for asking, you are the 2nd poster that heard me!

Yes. I feel like it is a spotlight on my soul. Especially because I have done a lot of work in the defense industry. Like everyone else in this area. It is really jarring. I am trying to create a space to be introspective around what this means for me personally. I guess I started the thread because I KNOW there are MANY OUT THERE LIKE ME!

MOST of us dont want to talk about it. But we still respect how others process it. Black familes were FORCED TO ERASE THEIR HISTORY. We erased our name, our culture, our trade, our intellect, and it was intentionally distorted and confused.

I think that is the thing I think about most. How? How am I here, empowering others to think differently from the person that created a path in some sense for me to exist, not just as a person, but someone that had the drive and gangster to go so damn hard and be such a hypocrite?

I mean -- WTF? What would YOU Think? I really dont know how I feel about it. I do recognize that the recent conversation and thoughts are just OLD. We are coming on a year and ive been listening to everyone argue the same things. No change will happen if we arent actually having a conversation about things we still should discover and improve.

If it were a regular plantation owner, I would not feel so strongly about it. It is hard to wonder if there are inherent traits I have (like my stupidity for starting this thread, cause I learned last May what not to do here) are associated with someone that has been an enemy all of my life, and still has his minions (which by the way you could be one) saying I have imposter syndrome (when I have more of his blood that they do, not that I am bragging or that I am happy about it but it is a fact) when they dont broaden their knowledge base. And not only do they not update their understanding with relevancy across the board, they intentionally continue to suppress what little we had that was able to be capstured and preserved.

Just now another example of how undescribable it is came to me. I wonder if this is how Luke felt about Darth Vader when it all went down. Because, ha, I am just now realizeing -- one could say he tried to redeem himself or make amends by giving his slave/indentured servant/loved mistress/rape victim the gift of property. Kinda like Darth made that one last move out of shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I agree we don’t honor the man that raped my maternal grandmother. Oh, that is another conflict by the way. Every time I thought of slavery and children born from masters, I assumed it was rape. Rherw is no way that I have to go back in time and verify rhis but the information that was shared from the family reunion presentation of the person they hired said the relationship was different; he actually loved her and had a fondness for her.

I believe people use the term rape as a blanket term in these cases because of the complete imbalance of power.

It's sexual exploitation at the very least.

How would I know what to call it?!

OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I agree we don’t honor the man that raped my maternal grandmother. Oh, that is another conflict by the way. Every time I thought of slavery and children born from masters, I assumed it was rape. Rherw is no way that I have to go back in time and verify rhis but the information that was shared from the family reunion presentation of the person they hired said the relationship was different; he actually loved her and had a fondness for her.

I believe people use the term rape as a blanket term in these cases because of the complete imbalance of power.

It's sexual exploitation at the very least.

How would I know what to call it?!

OP

It rape no matter if the complied. Because if they had a choice they would have chosen freedom, but they had no choice.

A kidnap victim who has sex with their kidnapper even without fighting is still raped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve always been nervous to do this before, but here goes. I’m cutting and pasting what I just shared in another thread. Not sure if this is an AMA because I’m a little hesitant to put myself out there, but here goes!

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I’m a black descendant of Robert E Lee. He was a racist that raped my ancestor, half of our family broke out and passed as white and live throughout the country.

I’m so sick of people erasing history. Dont cancel it. Put it in context.

Update the history books to tell the full story. We all have scars. Show what lynching is, explain why associations with certain behaviors are wrong.

We can’t white wash everything. And my story is actually one of the more favorable outcomes, we really did 40 acres where we still gather in Southern VA not far from where he was defeated.

Ironically, I have a connection to the roots here in an indescrivle way. While Lee Highway is a road that led him to attempt suppression of my ancestors, it is also the road that three of my relatives built businesses and thrived in. It intersects with names that have meaning for me - much like Kunta Kintes arrival in Old Town.

I don’t represent all voices certainly not all women or black people or descendants from slavery. Some black people have strong opinions and some white people have strong opinions. Me? I have truly understood both sides. I don’t want to forget the horror of the man that is a part of my bloodline, because the reminder in my story is also one of great triumph.

My general takeaway is rhis - celebrate what is good, honor what is right, and if we didn’t do that, don’t hide it in shame. I’d much prefer a new statue erected next to every other Lee statue than to pretend that once again, my ancestors are irrelevant as an AA and my past can so easily be deleted by masses of untamed emotion.

Dont delete it, just don’t repeat it. That’s all. I may just copy and paste this statement because I’ve sat quietly and watched without word for awhile on DCUM without any interest in truly engaging. For some reason today I am okay divulging it. We are all in this together.

To prevent insurrection attempts - people have to understand their history and have a hope for their future. Strengthen our unity, don’t divide. The answer on how to do that is likely somewhere in the middle. Tell the whole story of how blacks came from glory - and what we have to do for good change.

I always smirk to myself because all black people just assume I feel that all confederate history should be ignored, all white pelle apologize, ans i just sit there and think: you have no idea. Why don’t you ASK me what I think about MY literal personal investment and heritage here?

That is a stronger virtue than tearing apart communities with confusion. My approach like my story, is different.

Most people don’t want to hear it. One day, maybe everyone will.
[Report Post]
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Can you please define what you mean by erasing history? Removing statues that unrepentant confederates erected in the 1920s to increase terror?

I agree, don't divide - which to me means recognizing the confederates were insurrectionists bent on breaking up the union, and celebrating the fact that they lost. Hurrah! I think all of us patriotic Americans can celebrate the fact that insurrectionists lost, and that unifies us. And I think we can all celebrate that when the Confederacy lost, it meant the end of slavery as a legal institution - that is a good definitely worth celebrating, even if it didn't mean an immediate improvement in the lives of Black Americans, which is something we should also remember.

Personally I've never really understood the need to worship ancestors. I'm pretty sure I had ancestors who I would not have liked because they were probably racist and sexist AF. I might find their life stories interesting, but I don't have any need to put them on a pedestal.

[Anonymous]

Prove it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most African Americans know they have some white ancestry, but they either don’t have the names of those ancestors or they do, but the name is just a name with no big claim to fame attached. Do you think you feel differently about being descended from the most famous Confederate General than you would about being descended from any wealthy plantation owner whose sons fought for the Confederacy?

I really appreciate this question! Thank you for asking, you are the 2nd poster that heard me!

Yes. I feel like it is a spotlight on my soul. Especially because I have done a lot of work in the defense industry. Like everyone else in this area. It is really jarring. I am trying to create a space to be introspective around what this means for me personally. I guess I started the thread because I KNOW there are MANY OUT THERE LIKE ME!

MOST of us dont want to talk about it. But we still respect how others process it. Black familes were FORCED TO ERASE THEIR HISTORY. We erased our name, our culture, our trade, our intellect, and it was intentionally distorted and confused.

I think that is the thing I think about most. How? How am I here, empowering others to think differently from the person that created a path in some sense for me to exist, not just as a person, but someone that had the drive and gangster to go so damn hard and be such a hypocrite?

I mean -- WTF? What would YOU Think? I really dont know how I feel about it. I do recognize that the recent conversation and thoughts are just OLD. We are coming on a year and ive been listening to everyone argue the same things. No change will happen if we arent actually having a conversation about things we still should discover and improve.

If it were a regular plantation owner, I would not feel so strongly about it. It is hard to wonder if there are inherent traits I have (like my stupidity for starting this thread, cause I learned last May what not to do here) are associated with someone that has been an enemy all of my life, and still has his minions (which by the way you could be one) saying I have imposter syndrome (when I have more of his blood that they do, not that I am bragging or that I am happy about it but it is a fact) when they dont broaden their knowledge base. And not only do they not update their understanding with relevancy across the board, they intentionally continue to suppress what little we had that was able to be capstured and preserved.

Just now another example of how undescribable it is came to me. I wonder if this is how Luke felt about Darth Vader when it all went down. Because, ha, I am just now realizeing -- one could say he tried to redeem himself or make amends by giving his slave/indentured servant/loved mistress/rape victim the gift of property. Kinda like Darth made that one last move out of shame.

Thank you for taking the time to compose a thoughtful answer. I’m trying to wrap my mind around what it feels like to have your ancestry contain people who did unconscionable things and are on the wrong side of history, but also the people who were the victims of the unconscionable acts. You’re descended from both the villains and the heroes. Slavery is pure evil...but you wouldn’t exist if not for slavery...but you’d never wish enslavement on your ancestors so that you could exist...but you do exist and you’re a good and decent and worthy person, so...where does that leave you? I don’t know what it takes to make peace with conflicting parts of your family history, US history, and your personal identity, but I wish you peace.